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Matt Barkley - QB - USC


RogerNapalm

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Brees is shorter than both.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Brees is fast, agile and has a great arm. Barkley and Nassib have none of those things.

 

You can be lacking in one or two prototypical franchise QB attributes. But you can't haver the combination that Barkley and Nassib have and expect anything more than a backup QB.

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weak comparisons abound. Aaron Rogers and Tony Romo are from Cali as well FTR.

 

and the king of all kings Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr.

 

And don't forget John Elway, another Cali QB. Pretty sure he sucked.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Brees is fast, agile and has a great arm. Barkley and Nassib have none of those things.

 

You can be lacking in one or two prototypical franchise QB attributes. But you can't haver the combination that Barkley and Nassib have and expect anything more than a backup QB.

 

I don't disagree with any of it. I just thought it was funny that you mention "short and stocky" as drawbacks and then cite a QB that's shorter than both.

 

GO BILLS!!!

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I would NOT trade up in this draft. If Barkley or Gino is gone, fine, neither one is worth trading up for. That means that a very good OT, OLB, ILB is available at #8. We can use #8 to trade down and get someone like Olgetree, or take him there, and use our saved picks that we didn't trade to plug other holes. There is so much depth in this draft at other positions of need besides QB that it would be a huge mistake to forge those players by trading up to grab Gino or Barkley.

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Nassib is garbage, reminds me of Fitz with his inconsistent arm. He doesn't put any touch on the ball.

Nailed it. No deep ball threat,like Fitz. He`s also slower than a crippled snail. The D will have a short field to defend ,because his lack of a deep ball. Also playing in a DOME,is alot different then in the Ralph.
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If it comes down to Glennon or nASSib . I~ll take Glennon in a heartbeat over the slower ,shorter,weaker arm DOME QB

 

If it comes down to this, we royally messed something up. I'd take Dysert from Miami Ohio. or the QB from Duke. or the BPA.

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I don't know where they got those numbers from, but they're completely off. He threw for less than 200 yards but 6 tds. http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/480322/matt-barkley

 

And again, what is up with people not wanting a QB at #8 but then trading back in the 1st to get him? It makes zero sense. Why risk losing him? And if you don't fell comfortable taking him at #8, why are you drafting him i nthe 1st place?

I agree, the Bills are going to draft a QB, if they guy they want is there at 8 you take him. You can't risk waiting or trying to make a trade. QB is the most important position on the team. To hell with value and what draft pundits think.

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And where did he grow up ? ,Reb.

 

Who cares? The discussion was about Cali boys playing in the north. Brady played in the north during college.

 

You know what's funny is a lot of Michigan qbs have the same rep has USC qbs. Maybe Barkley would be the one who breaks the mold like Brasy did.

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Another California QB? Because the Bills have done sooo good with them as of late i.e Rob Johnson and Trent Edwards

 

Tom Brady says hey. This whole "California QB's" thing is so absurd. I don't care if the guy is from mars, if he can play he can play.

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Its completely ridiculous how many people are so sure there are no "franchise" or starting quarterbacks in this draft just because there's no Luck, RG3 or Cam. No one thought Kaepernick or Russell Wilson were going to be and look how they turned out. You put a guy in the right system and the right environment to succeed and you hope for the best. That's all we can do in our situation unless you think we should wait to go 2-14 and draft one in the first couple picks but as far as I can tell there probably won't be any sure fire studs next year either.

 

We have to take a QB somewhere in the first two rounds and see what Marrone can do with him. I'm not saying he's Jim Harbaugh or anything but that is the main reason the 49ers went from 6-10 to the Super Bowl two years later.

 

Personally I hope its either Barkley or Geno but if Marrone wants to go with Nassib or whoever else he likes I'd be totally behind that too.

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Its completely ridiculous how many people are so sure there are no "franchise" or starting quarterbacks in this draft just because there's no Luck, RG3 or Cam. No one thought Kaepernick or Russell Wilson were going to be and look how they turned out. You put a guy in the right system and the right environment to succeed and you hope for the best. That's all we can do in our situation unless you think we should wait to go 2-14 and draft one in the first couple picks but as far as I can tell there probably won't be any sure fire studs next year either.

 

We have to take a QB somewhere in the first two rounds and see what Marrone can do with him. I'm not saying he's Jim Harbaugh or anything but that is the main reason the 49ers went from 6-10 to the Super Bowl two years later.

 

Personally I hope its either Barkley or Geno but if Marrone wants to go with Nassib or whoever else he likes I'd be totally behind that too.

 

For every Kaepernick and Russell Wilson, there are double the number of Gabbert, Locker, Tannehill and Ponder types... That's what we're dealing with this year. Cam, RG3 and Luck were absolutely "bust proof" and we can't compare them to the 2013 group... but I agree, the Bills need to take a QB or two in this draft and roll the dice.

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It is my guess that the QB the bills want is a second tier guy because you can't count on getting a Smith or Barkley at 8. So would they cut Fitz if there was a chance the QB they want most might not be there, I'm not sure.

 

God I hope not. The chances that a 2nd tier guy becomes an Elite pro are miniscule.......and if he manages to live up to realistic expectations(also extremely low chance) and becomes a solid NFL starter, we will be stuck with mediocrity for another 6-10 years.

 

When it comes to drafting QBs, history has shown that if you don't "swing for the fences" you have bugger all chance of finding the QB of your dreams.

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God I hope not. The chances that a 2nd tier guy becomes an Elite pro are miniscule.......and if he manages to live up to realistic expectations(also extremely low chance) and becomes a solid NFL starter, we will be stuck with mediocrity for another 6-10 years.

 

When it comes to drafting QBs, history has shown that if you don't "swing for the fences" you have bugger all chance of finding the QB of your dreams.

 

 

Recent history:

 

"Swing for the fence" non-slam dunk picks (meaning Newton, Luck and RGIII) on QB in 1st rd:

2011 Tennessee - Locker

2011 Jacksonville - Gabbert

2011 Minnesota - Ponder

2012 Miami - Tannehill

 

Second tier rd 2 and 3 QB picks:

2011 Cincinatti - Dalton

2011 San Francisco - Kaepernick

2011 New England - Mallett

 

2012 Denver - Osweiler

2012 Seattle - Wilson

2012 Philadelphia - Foles

 

The Bills would do well to stay calm at #8 (do not give picks for the non-slam dunk Geno Smith), and go BPA there...then pick either Manuel or Scott with their second round pick. I'm assuming that Geno Smith will be gone by #8. If Geno's there then I wouldn't mind if the Bills picked him. Just don't give up any picks because the risk of losing out on great players with that move isn't worth it. It's a double penalty if Smith is a bust.

 

This is what the Niners did in 2011 when Alex Smith was STILL known as a bust...they ignored the Lockers, Gabberts and Ponders and drafted Aldon Smith in the first, then Kaepernick in the second.

Edited by 1billsfan
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Well Kaepernick and Wilson's performances ensure that no QB with a "2nd tier" label is going to slip too far down the draft. Any QB worth a damn will be picked in rounds 1 or 2.

In my opinion, Mallett could be starting somewhere right now. I liked him alot coming out of college. I bet he isn't loving the way his career is starting out....especially seeing these other young QBs getting starts all over the league.

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Recent history:

 

"Swing for the fence" non-slam dunk picks (meaning Newton, Luck and RGIII) on QB in 1st rd:

2011 Tennessee - Locker

2011 Jacksonville - Gabbert

2011 Minnesota - Ponder

2012 Miami - Tannehill

 

Second tier rd 2 and 3 QB picks:

2011 Cincinatti - Dalton

2011 San Francisco - Kaepernick

2011 New England - Mallett

 

2012 Denver - Osweiler

2012 Seattle - Wilson

2012 Philadelphia - Foles

 

The Bills would do well to stay clam at #8 (do not give picks for the non-slam dunk Geno Smith), and go BPA there...then pick either Manuel or Scott with their second round pick. I'm assuming that Geno Smith will be gone by #8. If Geno's there then I wouldn't mind if the Bills picked him. Just don't give up any picks because the risk of losing out on great players with that move isn't worth it. It's a double penalty if Smith is a bust.

 

This is what the Niners did in 2011 when Alex Smith was STILL known as a bust...they ignored the Lockers, Gabberts and Ponders and drafted Aldon Smith in the first, then Kaepernick in the second.

 

Tannehill looked pretty solid by the end of the year. Why are people knocking him? He looks like he might end up being pretty good.

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Tannehill looked pretty solid by the end of the year. Why are people knocking him? He looks like he might end up being pretty good.

 

Ya, throwing him in with Gabbert or Ponder is a reach, and I'm being nice.

 

Goes to show the disparity in QB talent evaluation here at GM headquarters.... I mean 2billsdrive. lol

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Recent history:

 

"Swing for the fence" non-slam dunk picks (meaning Newton, Luck and RGIII) on QB in 1st rd:

2011 Tennessee - Locker

2011 Jacksonville - Gabbert

2011 Minnesota - Ponder

2012 Miami - Tannehill

 

Second tier rd 2 and 3 QB picks:

2011 Cincinatti - Dalton

2011 San Francisco - Kaepernick

2011 New England - Mallett

 

2012 Denver - Osweiler

2012 Seattle - Wilson

2012 Philadelphia - Foles

 

The Bills would do well to stay clam at #8 (do not give picks for the non-slam dunk Geno Smith), and go BPA there...then pick either Manuel or Scott with their second round pick. I'm assuming that Geno Smith will be gone by #8. If Geno's there then I wouldn't mind if the Bills picked him. Just don't give up any picks because the risk of losing out on great players with that move isn't worth it. It's a double penalty if Smith is a bust.

 

This is what the Niners did in 2011 when Alex Smith was STILL known as a bust...they ignored the Lockers, Gabberts and Ponders and drafted Aldon Smith in the first, then Kaepernick in the second.

 

To be clear, the term "2nd teir" that I used was in reference to auburnbillsbacker's definitions.....of which I made assumptions with. His 2nd tier is actually what I would call 3rd tier.

 

Also....to me, a team should only be interested in obtaining an Elite QB as history has shown that without one, there is very little chance to ever win the SB

 

In my book there are only 3 Tiers of QB that are drafted.

 

Tier 1 are the QB prospects with great potential. These are the QBs who get selected in the top 4 of the draft. The success rate for these QBs to become Elite is about 21%.

 

Tier 2 are the QB prospects that show a glimpse(or two) that they could become elite. The NFL scouts virtually always recognize this and these QBs are subsequently virtually always selected in the 5-36 range. The rough success rate for these QBs to become elite is about 8%.

 

Tier 3 are all of the other QBs. Wilson may or may not become an elite QB......but outside of him there has only been one QB(Brady) drafted after the 36 pick that became an elite QB(since 1985, where I went back to in my study). The rough success rate is about a half of a percent(0.5%)

 

 

The short of it is.......any QB who we may select at the #41 spot is likely to have been assessed correctly by the NFL scouts as having no chance of becoming an elite QB......and if we want a reasonable chance to obtain an elite QB we minimally have to leapfrog ahead and select him at the top of the 2nd round.

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Tannehill looked pretty solid by the end of the year. Why are people knocking him? He looks like he might end up being pretty good.

 

Not knocking him, just showing the "swing for the fence" QB picks.

 

As a Bills fan however, I don't see ever fearing Tannehill. He strikes me as average, which is a "fail" in my book. If Geno Smith is another Tannehill or Dalton then I'd pass. But since we don't know I'd probably have to take him. This is all speculation that Smith would be there and there's a VERY slim chance of that happening with each passing day.

 

I think Bills fans should focus on the BPA at #8 and second tier/pick QBs, and forget this Geno Smith talk. It's kind of pointless at this point now, right?

 

To be clear, the term "2nd teir" that I used was in reference to auburnbillsbacker's definitions.....of which I made assumptions with. His 2nd tier is actually what I would call 3rd tier.

 

Also....to me, a team should only be interested in obtaining an Elite QB as history has shown that without one, there is very little chance to ever win the SB

 

In my book there are only 3 Tiers of QB that are drafted.

 

Tier 1 are the QB prospects with great potential. These are the QBs who get selected in the top 4 of the draft. The success rate for these QBs to become Elite is about 21%.

 

Tier 2 are the QB prospects that show a glimpse(or two) that they could become elite. The NFL scouts virtually always recognize this and these QBs are subsequently virtually always selected in the 5-36 range. The rough success rate for these QBs to become elite is about 8%.

 

Tier 3 are all of the other QBs. Wilson may or may not become an elite QB......but outside of him there has only been one QB(Brady) drafted after the 36 pick that became an elite QB(since 1985, where I went back to in my study). The rough success rate is about a half of a percent(0.5%)

 

 

The short of it is.......any QB who we may select at the #41 spot is likely to have been assessed correctly by the NFL scouts as having no chance of becoming an elite QB......and if we want a reasonable chance to obtain an elite QB we minimally have to leapfrog ahead and select him at the top of the 2nd round.

 

Colin Kaepernick and Russell Wilson beg to differ with this opinion.

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Colin Kaepernick and Russell Wilson beg to differ with this opinion.

 

I was very careful to use the word "likely".......I did not say it never happens......just that the likelihood of it happening are negligible outside of the top 36 selections. Kaepernick & Wilson would definitely agree with this opinion.

 

Furthering that concept, if you somehow think it is wrong, name a QB that isn't Wilson or Brady who was drafted outside the top 36 picks in the last 27 years who became an Elite starter. The percentages I quoted were not opinions.....they were the facts.

 

 

I am also wondering if you actually read my post at all. Kaepernick falls into Tier 2 as he was selected at #36.

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Tom Brady says hey. This whole "California QB's" thing is so absurd. I don't care if the guy is from mars, if he can play he can play.

 

No, it is a "USC QBs" thing... Troy Aikman, Aaron Rodgers, and others were/are stellar NFL QBs... the USC ones have consistently sucked. Why is that differentiation so difficult to see???

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However Brees, who played for Purdue, had a much greater college career than Barkley or Nassib.

 

Brees definitely had a better career than Nassib but Barkley had a hell of a career.

http://www.totalfootballstats.com/PlayerQB.asp?id=421

 

Brees had 90 tds to 45 ints, basically a 60% passer, & a 7 ypa.

 

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/480322/matt-barkley

Barkley had 116 tds to 48 ints, basically a 65% passer, and nearly 8 ypa.

 

Obviously, it's nuts to think Barkley will have Brees career but I don't know whey people are discounting him so easily.

 

No, it is a "USC QBs" thing... Troy Aikman, Aaron Rodgers, and others were/are stellar NFL QBs... the USC ones have consistently sucked. Why is that differentiation so difficult to see???

 

I get the college thing to an extent but it can be very dangerous. What if the Bills passed on Orakpo because Texas players are busts in the NFL? What if teams passed on Rodgers because Tedford coached QBs are busts (Carr, Harrington, Boller)? Each player needs to be reviewed individually.

 

Given the sanctions USC had, it could be argued that Barkley played with the least amount of talent of any recent USC QB. And since I think Kiffin is a joke who has gotten everything because of his daddy, I think he had a severe disadvantage at coaching as well. Barkley is also a much different kid than Sanchez or Leinart. He goes on missions in the offseason with his girlfriend. Sanchez and Leinart are doing beer bongs with barely legal girls (trust me, there's nothing wrong with that but I would like a more serious guy to be our Qb).

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However Brees, who played for Purdue, had a much greater college career than Barkley or Nassib.

 

Not true, actually:

 

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/drew-brees-1.html

 

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/matt-barkley-1.html

 

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/geno-smith-1.html

 

Brees had the worst stats of the the three of them.

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Sanchez and Leinart are doing beer bongs with barely legal girls (trust me, there's nothing wrong with that but I would like a more serious guy to be our Qb).

 

I guess it would depend on the definition of barely legal in Sanchez' case.

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No, it is a "USC QBs" thing... Troy Aikman, Aaron Rodgers, and others were/are stellar NFL QBs... the USC ones have consistently sucked. Why is that differentiation so difficult to see???

 

No offense, but that is absurd. There is 100% positively zero relevance of past USC QB's successes or failures to current and future USC QB's NFL potential. NONE...not even a 1% link. Its factually and scientifically zero. Only media and fans make that leap in false logic. They are different people, with different teammates, with different coaches, different systems, and different abilities.

 

To discriminate against a prospect because previous prospects failed to impress at the next level is the kind of logic that gets you fired and keeps you unemployed in the NFL. I know some scouts and they always laugh at those kind of statements and literally wish and pray that other teams are dumb enough to buy into it even though they know they won't either because its absurd.

 

Of course they will evaluate a guy to determine if his college success was (as best as they can determine) about a favorable system, overall talent, or both. But they do NOT disregard a player or down grade him because he plays for a school that had other previous prospects of the same position fail to live up to expectations at the next level. They will evaluate them all the same, and if a guy appears to be a "systems" guy who doesn't have all the tools, he will be downgraded. If he impresses from a skill and attributes analysis, he will be elevated. Its as simple as that...

 

So Brady is right...this knock on CA QB's, and specifically USC QB's, is absurd and only important to those who do not matter in personnel decisions...aka fans and media.

Edited by Alphadawg7
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Could someone who actually watches college football explain to me how Barkley goes from a

bona fide top 5 pick, in league with RGIII and Andrew Luck last year to a 2nd rounder this year?

Or even a 4th rounder per Greg Cosell at NFL.com (Even if he does end up getting picked in the first round).

 

I know USC didn't have as good of a season and that he hurt his shoulder, but where did the

negative perception come from. He had three full seasons of film before last year...did he

reveal significant flaws this past season that he hadn't in the previous three seasons? Or was

it just that the team as a whole was worse and he takes the brunt of that?

 

I'm not pushing for Barkley, I just really wonder how his stock dropped so significantly.

Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

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Brees definitely had a better career than Nassib but Barkley had a hell of a career.

http://www.totalfoot...erQB.asp?id=421

 

Brees had 90 tds to 45 ints, basically a 60% passer, & a 7 ypa.

 

http://espn.go.com/c...22/matt-barkley

Barkley had 116 tds to 48 ints, basically a 65% passer, and nearly 8 ypa.

 

Obviously, it's nuts to think Barkley will have Brees career but I don't know whey people are discounting him so easily.

 

Not true, actually:

 

http://www.sports-re...ew-brees-1.html

 

http://www.sports-re...-barkley-1.html

 

http://www.sports-re...no-smith-1.html

 

Brees had the worst stats of the the three of them.

 

If you guys are gonna base your argument that Barkley or Nassib are Brees' match on statistics, then I can't argue with you.

 

The most significant of Brees' stats I can point to is that when he graduated from Purdue, he held the Big Ten record for passing yards and TD passes.

 

But it's Brees' non-statistical accomplishments as a player that place him high above Barkley and Nassib.

 

Brees resuscitated a moribund Purdue program and led them to their first Rose Bowl appearance in 24 years. With coach Joe Tiller he resurrected a Purdue program which had become a laughingstock in the Big Ten.

 

For the 12 seasons before Drew Brees got to Purdue, the program had losing records. Twelve straight seasons as losers.

 

In the 4 years Brees was at Purdue, they had a record of 33-16. After 12 straight losing records.

 

And after he left they were never again as good.

 

Brees won the Maxwell Award as college football best player. Neither Barkley or Nassib ever won this award.

 

He won the Davey O'Brien Award as the nation's best quarterback. Neither Barkley or Nassib ever won this award.

 

Brees finished 4th and 3rd in the Heisman voting. Barkley finished 6th two seasons ago. Unless I'm mistaken, Nassib was never on the Heisman radar.

 

Twice Brees was named Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year.

 

Brees was also the MVP in both the Alamo Bowl and the Outback Bowl.

 

Only statistics could make the case that Barkley or Nassib's careers approached that of Drew Brees'.

Edited by San Jose Bills Fan
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Al Fronzak mock has Barkley to the Bills:

8. Buffalo Bills - QB Matt Barkley (USC)...The Bills number one priority is to find a potential franchise QB in this draft...they can't gamble that the QB they are targeting will still be available in the second round, since several other teams are looking to draft a young QB...*Note - The Bills are also said to be high on FSU QB EJ Manuel, Syracuse QB Ryan Nassib and Arkansas QB Tyler Wilson as both GM Buddy Nix and Asst. GM Doug Whaley were both present at Wilson's pro day workout in Fayettville.

Team Needs- QB, WR, TE, ILB, OLB, CB; Offense - West Coast up-tempo, Zone blocking. Defense- 3-4 hybrid, press man coverage

 

http://www.eastcoastsportsnews.com/AlFronczak_2013_Mock_Draft.html

 

 

And I found this tidbit...from former Oregon coach Chip Kelly about playing Luck and Barkley in 2011

 

"I also qualified that and said I'm not saying he's better than Andrew Luck. I'm not saying Andrew Luck is better than him. In the game against the Ducks, the best quarterback performance in the 11 games we've played was Matt Barkley." - Chip Kelly

 

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2011/11/oregon-coach-says-matt-barkley-is-better-than-andrew-luck-in-one-respect.html

 

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