bbb Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I don't know whether he should be in the HOF or not. His numbers would indicate he should be........But, poor man's Emmett Smith sure describes him....I never had any thought of Oh, no - how how we going to stop Curtis Martin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I don't know whether he should be in the HOF or not. His numbers would indicate he should be........But, poor man's Emmett Smith sure describes him....I never had any thought of Oh, no - how how we going to stop Curtis Martin! Art Monk or Cris Carter never scared anyone either. Michael Irvin, Andre Reed... they did, & are at a whole other level imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 He's got more than just the ordinary stats. He produced when it counted most (the postseason) and he made very few mistakes (i.e., fumbles). You have a valid opinion, as do I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) You're kidding, right? He was as good as Thurman, sad to say, and one of the best vision/first-cut runners in NFL history. Just because he wasn't Barry Sanders doesn't mean he wasn't one of the best RBs of all time. I live in NY and saw way too many Jets games over the years. He was a warrior with great talent. Why do you think Parcells traded the farm for him after 97? Who was key in getting the Jets to 12-4 after a 1-15 season two seasons before? See my point about fumbles above. Offensive player of the year and MVPs is a crapshoot. In 2004, he was the best RB in the league. He had a great postseason in 1996 (166 yards and 3 tds against a dominant steelers D) and a good SB against GB. He's not the reason they lost that game. Â Martin is a highly uninspired pick. As mentioned, all he has is stats. And, for arguements sake, he only piled up the stats because he got so many rushes. But, this isn't baseball. No team was ever scared of Martin. He was extremely non-descript. Martin was never going to "dazzle" anyone. He never took the league by storm. All i remember Martin as a guy that was going to run for 2-4 yards on every attempt. He was good enough to not to get stopped for a loss, but he wasn't a game breaker. Martin simply got lucky enough to stay healthy all those years. And since when do we induct players into the HOF for avoiding injury? Â Martin doesn't pass the eye test. A nice player, yes. HOFer? Hell no. Edited February 9, 2012 by Ramius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Martin is a highly uninspired pick. As mentioned, all he has is stats. And, for arguements sake, he only piled up the stats because he got so many rushes. But, this isn't baseball. No team was ever scared of Martin. He was extremely non-descript. Martin was never going to "dazzle" anyone. He never took the league by storm. All i remember Martin as a guy that was going to run for 2-4 yards on every attempt. He was good enough to not to get stopped for a loss, but he wasn't a game breaker. Martin simply got lucky enough to stay healthy all those years. And since when do we induct players into the HOF for avoiding injury? Â Martin doesn't pass the eye test. A nice player, yes. HOFer? Hell no. 29 Fumbles, which upon further research of backs with over 10K yards, is the best ever in the history of the NFL. Multiple strong playoff appearances. One 1,700 yard season. 4th all time in yardage. Good enough for Parcells to trade the farm for him because he thought he was the player that could the Jets over the hump. I saw a ton of him, and I was always impressed. The game that sticks most in my mind is his 200 yards in an OT victory for the Pats against the Jets just after Parcells got to NY (1997; Martin was still on the Pats: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199709140nwe.htm .) I guess I don't quite get the dislike for him. Â The criticisms are vague and unsatisfactory ("teams didn't fear him"; quoting his stats inaccurately -"2-4" ypc). I gather this stems from the fact that this is a Bills forum and between 1998 and 2005 fans would watch 3 or 4 Jets games per year max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Art Monk or Cris Carter never scared anyone either. Michael Irvin, Andre Reed... they did, & are at a whole other level imo. Â Exactly Bro... Â One of the things I think is lost in Andre's bid here is how every Defense The Bills ever played HAD to concentrate on taking him out of the Passing Game first and foremost (admittedly they had to deal with Thurman as well...But Andre was clearly the guy you needed to stop vertically)...That just makes what guys like Andre and Irvin did even more impressive...I don't think Carter or Monk brought that same fear whatsoever...I could be wrong, but I just did not see it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Exactly Bro... Â One of the things I think is lost in Andre's bid here is how every Defense The Bills ever played HAD to concentrate on taking him out of the Passing Game first and foremost (admittedly they had to deal with Thurman as well...But Andre was clearly the guy you needed to stop vertically)...That just makes what guys like Andre and Irvin did even more impressive...I don't think Carter or Monk brought that same fear whatsoever...I could be wrong, but I just did not see it... http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LoftJa00.htm Edited February 9, 2012 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) 29 Fumbles, which upon further research of backs with over 10K yards, is the best ever in the history of the NFL. Multiple strong playoff appearances. One 1,700 yard season. 4th all time in yardage. Good enough for Parcells to trade the farm for him because he thought he was the player that could the Jets over the hump. I saw a ton of him, and I was always impressed. The game that sticks most in my mind is his 200 yards in an OT victory for the Pats against the Jets just after Parcells got to NY (1997; Martin was still on the Pats: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199709140nwe.htm .) I guess I don't quite get the dislike for him. Â The criticisms are vague and unsatisfactory ("teams didn't fear him"; quoting his stats inaccurately -"2-4" ypc). I gather this stems from the fact that this is a Bills forum and between 1998 and 2005 fans would watch 3 or 4 Jets games per year max. Â His highlight reel isnt thrilling but that shouldn't mean he didn't have a great career. There are very few backs I'd draft ahead of him if I knew what the career would be. He was a 5 time allpro including on a superbowl team. He never lost his team a game with dumb mistakes but he certainly won a lot. Â I love how people are writing off that he could stay healthy as if that's not a huge plus for a back. It also probably reflects that he took better care of his body generally, and as indicated by his lack of fumbles, ran smart and protected himself against big hits. Â I'm not buying that he needs a unique style or a great 3 minute clip of pigskin porn on YouTube. He was a consistent player that made an impact for a decade. He was a 5 time all pro, rookie of the year, and played in a superbowl. Thousand yards rushing and 1400 from scrimmage for 10 years. 4th all time in yardage. Come on. Edited February 9, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 5 Time All Pros are almost by definition HOFers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 His highlight reel isnt thrilling but that shouldn't mean he didn't have a great career. There are very few backs I'd draft ahead of him if I knew what the career would be. He was a 5 time allpro including on a superbowl team. He never lost his team a game with dumb mistakes but he certainly won a lot. Â I love how people are writing off that he could stay healthy as if that's not a huge plus for a back. It also probably reflects that he took better care of his body generally, and as indicated by his lack of fumbles, ran smart and protected himself against big hits. Â I'm not buying that he needs a unique style or a great 3 minute clip of pigskin porn on YouTube. He was a consistent player that made an impact for a decade. He was a 5 time all pro, rookie of the year, and played in a superbowl. Thousand yards rushing and 1400 from scrimmage for 10 years. 4th all time in yardage. Come on. Â He has a great career, but the HOF is for the best of the best. Martin most certainyl wasn't among the best fo the best. In the past 15 years (which covers his playing time), one can easily come up with a dozen or more RBs you'd pick before martin if building a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Martin deserved to get in. Reed, Carter, and Brown also deserved to get in. The problem is that only 5 modern players usually make it in per year, so worthy candidates often struggle to get in. It is sad, because all 3 of the wrs mentioned earlier had better careers than Irvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Let's hear it for Jack Butler getting in though. St. Bonaventure grad - played with Ted Marchibroda on the last of the Bona teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Question: Should Terrell Davis get in? I certainly think so given that Gale Sayers got in. A short and truly brilliant career should be rewarded, I think. Here are his career stats: 7,607 rushing yards, 65 TDs, and a 4.6 ypc. Â HOWEVER, on top of that, he did this in 8 postseason games: Â carries: 204 Â yards: 1,140 Â ypc: 5.6 Â ypg: 142.5 Â TDs: 12 Â Super Bowl MVPs: 1 Â Those are truly spectacular numbers against top competition and with a relatively large sample size. They're unmatched, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Question: Should Terrell Davis get in? I certainly think so given that Gale Sayers got in. A short and truly brilliant career should be rewarded, I think. Here are his career stats: 7,607 rushing yards, 65 TDs, and a 4.6 ypc. Â HOWEVER, on top of that, he did this in 8 postseason games: Â carries: 204 Â yards: 1,140 Â ypc: 5.6 Â ypg: 142.5 Â TDs: 12 Â Super Bowl MVPs: 1 Â Those are truly spectacular numbers against top competition and with a relatively large sample size. They're unmatched, actually. Â Yeah, I think football of all sports should take an injury truncated career into consideration.......Even baseball did it with Kirby Puckett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) He has a great career, but the HOF is for the best of the best. Martin most certainyl wasn't among the best fo the best. In the past 15 years (which covers his playing time), one can easily come up with a dozen or more RBs you'd pick before martin if building a team. Â Agree to disagree. A guy that averaged about 1300 rushing yards, 300 receiving, missed 8 games in 11 years (4 being the career ending injury in December of year 11 - before that he missed 4 games in over 10 seasons.), never fumbled, played well in January, and was both a model citizen and team leader - right near the top of my draft board. Â Odd that the hall of fame voters think he belongs AND a future hall of fame coach gave a ransom to get him back AND 5 out of 11 seasons he was an allpro (ie best in the league) yet the consensus here is that he's not a noteworthy player. He's good and all but not someone to worry about or build a team around. In fact - you can name a dozen or more better during that time, meaning he was barely average. Â I wasn't a huge supporter to start but thought he was a good choice. The more I dig the more I'm amazed there's any debate to begin with. Edited February 10, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 He did not and neither did Brown. I find it real hard believing Tim Brown isn't a first balloter:Let alone not making the top 10. I think he was an unstoppable player.--Just like in the NBA you couldn't stop Adrian Dantley on the drive ...-you couldn't stop Tim Brown on a pass route.-And he generally had crap QBs throwing to him until Rich Gannon came along(and he couldnt throw a deep ball). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Yeah, I think football of all sports should take an injury truncated career into consideration.......Even baseball did it with Kirby Puckett. Gayle Sayers,Joe Namath............-and one guy left out who I always felt never got his due---Freeman McNeil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee:  Arizona Kent Somers, Arizona Republic  Atlanta Len Pasquarelli, The Sports Xchange  Baltimore Scott Garceau, WMAR-TV  Buffalo Mark Gaughan, Buffalo News  Carolina Darin Gantt, Rock Hill Herald  Chicago Dan Pompei, Chicago Tribune*  Cincinnati Joe Reedy, Cincinnati Enquirer  Cleveland TBD  Dallas Rick Gosselin, Dallas Morning News*  Denver Jeff Legwold, Denver Post  Detroit Mike O'Hara, The Detroit News  Green Bay Cliff Christl, Green Bay Press-Gazette  Houston John McClain, Houston Chronicle*  Indianapolis Mike Chappell, Indianapolis Star  Jacksonville Sam Kouvaris, WJXT-TV  Kansas City Bob Gretz, KCFootballReport.com  Miami Edwin Pope, Miami Herald  Minnesota Mark Craig, The Minneapolis Star-Tribune  New England Ron Borges, Boston Herald*  New Orleans Pete Finney, Times-Picayune  New York (Giants) Bob Glauber, Newsday  New York (Jets) Gary Myers, New York Daily News  Oakland Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange  Philadelphia Paul Domowitch, Philadelphia Daily News  Pittsburgh Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette  St. Louis Bernie Miklasz, St. Louis Post-Dispatch*  San Diego Nick Canepa, San Diego Union Tribune  San Francisco Nancy Gay, FoxSports.com  Seattle Mike Sando, ESPN.com  Tampa Bay Ira Kaufman, Tampa Tribune  Tennessee David Climer, The Tennessean  Washington David Elfin, WUSA-9  PFWA Darryl Ledbetter, Atlanta Journal-Constitution  At Large Howard Balzer, The Sports Xchange  At Large Jarrett Bell, USA Today  At Large John Clayton, ESPN/ESPN Magazine  At Large John Czarnecki, FOXSports.com*  At Large Dave Goldberg, AOL Sports/Fanhouse*  At Large Peter King, Sports Illustrated  At Large Ira Miller, The Sports Xchange*  At Large Len Shapiro, Miami Herald*  At Large Vito Stellino, Florida Times Union  At Large Jim Trotter, Sports Illustrated  At Large Charean Williams, Ft. Worth Star Telegram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Peter King today:  k. I'm still waiting for the Andre Reed fans from La Jolla and Albuquerque and Lubbock to harangue me about why he hasn't been elected. It's funny that all the critics so far seem to be from Western New York.  http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/02/12/eli/2.html  I fear that he's right. I don't think he ever gets in. There's not a lot of support for him outside of WNY because his stats aren't as impressive as the two guys he's up against and about ten more guys coming down the pike in the next couple/few years. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Peter King today:  k. I'm still waiting for the Andre Reed fans from La Jolla and Albuquerque and Lubbock to harangue me about why he hasn't been elected. It's funny that all the critics so far seem to be from Western New York.  http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/02/12/eli/2.html  I fear that he's right. I don't think he ever gets in. There's not a lot of support for him outside of WNY because his stats aren't as impressive as the two guys he's up against and about ten more guys coming down the pike in the next couple/few years. Just my opinion.  These guys voted in Chris Doleman. Anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Art Monk or Cris Carter never scared anyone either. Michael Irvin, Andre Reed... they did, & are at a whole other level imo.  Completely disagree about Carter. When he retired, he was arguably the 2nd best receiver ever. He had the best set of hands I have ever seen. IF I was ranking the receivers for the HOF, it would be 1) Carter 2) Reed 3) Brown.  I find it real hard believing Tim Brown isn't a first balloter:Let alone not making the top 10. I think he was an unstoppable player.--Just like in the NBA you couldn't stop Adrian Dantley on the drive ...-you couldn't stop Tim Brown on a pass route.-And he generally had crap QBs throwing to him until Rich Gannon came along(and he couldnt throw a deep ball).  Not a big Brown fan. He was just a guy who put up numbers because he played for a long time. He never struck me as a great receiver.  Peter King today:  k. I'm still waiting for the Andre Reed fans from La Jolla and Albuquerque and Lubbock to harangue me about why he hasn't been elected. It's funny that all the critics so far seem to be from Western New York.  http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/02/12/eli/2.html  I fear that he's right. I don't think he ever gets in. There's not a lot of support for him outside of WNY because his stats aren't as impressive as the two guys he's up against and about ten more guys coming down the pike in the next couple/few years. Just my opinion.  And this is why it shouldn't be about stats. Reed was the top receiver on a team that went to 4 SBs. The league didn't pass nearly as much as they do know. Based on stats, Welker is a superior receiver to Reed. This is complete crap.  Jerry Rice called Reed the best receiver in the game during their playing days. Next to Reed, he was the 2nd best receiver after the catch I have ever seen. Plus if you add in his playoff numbers, he had a remarkable career. Additionally, he played in Buffalo (cold weather city), on a very balanced team (Lofton finished his HOF career here along with Thurman and the other receiving options), that often had big leads (thus no garbage time numbers like some of the crappy teams Brown played on).  Reed wasn't a 1st ballot HOFer but there isn't a doubt in my mind he is a HOFer. This was one of the worst HOF classes ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Completely disagree about Carter. When he retired, he was arguably the 2nd best receiver ever. He had the best set of hands I have ever seen. IF I was ranking the receivers for the HOF, it would be 1) Carter 2) Reed 3) Brown. Â Â Â Not a big Brown fan. He was just a guy who put up numbers because he played for a long time. He never struck me as a great receiver. Â Â Â And this is why it shouldn't be about stats. Reed was the top receiver on a team that went to 4 SBs. The league didn't pass nearly as much as they do know. Based on stats, Welker is a superior receiver to Reed. This is complete crap. Â Jerry Rice called Reed the best receiver in the game during their playing days. Next to Reed, he was the 2nd best receiver after the catch I have ever seen. Plus if you add in his playoff numbers, he had a remarkable career. Additionally, he played in Buffalo (cold weather city), on a very balanced team (Lofton finished his HOF career here along with Thurman and the other receiving options), that often had big leads (thus no garbage time numbers like some of the crappy teams Brown played on). Â Reed wasn't a 1st ballot HOFer but there isn't a doubt in my mind he is a HOFer. This was one of the worst HOF classes ever. I always viewed Reed as very, very good but not great. He was a terrific Bill--dependable, good hands, and tough after the catch. But he wasn't a game breaker and he was never the sort of guy that a QB could throw it up in the vicinity of and expect that he'd wrestle it away from a defender (or defenders). Chris Carter was definitely that sort of guy. Again, just my opinion. I know most here disagree with me and view Reed as a HOF player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 How do we get KRC in one of the At Large positions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 How do we get KRC in one of the At Large positions? Â Â Petition the HOF. They pick the selectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 How do we get KRC in one of the At Large positions? That's some pretty intimate knowledge, just sayin   Petition the HOF. They pick the selectors. Sorry, couldn't resist.  Does Eddie D. ever get in? Based on the circumstances that led to his leaving the team I would guess not, but, for several years he did everything possible to field the best possible NFL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I would bet the voters view Carter as more deserving than Reed--yet Carter still didn't get in, despite this year's weak class. I don't see Reed ever getting in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsSD Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Peter King today:  k. I'm still waiting for the Andre Reed fans from La Jolla and Albuquerque and Lubbock to harangue me about why he hasn't been elected. It's funny that all the critics so far seem to be from Western New York.  http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/02/12/eli/2.html  I fear that he's right. I don't think he ever gets in. There's not a lot of support for him outside of WNY because his stats aren't as impressive as the two guys he's up against and about ten more guys coming down the pike in the next couple/few years. Just my opinion.  Carter and Reed made it further than Brown, from what Peter King has said (the most vocal HOF voter) it seems the two of them are drawing votes from one another. I wish Carter had been elected so that it would have cleared the way for Reed next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Does Eddie D. ever get in? Based on the circumstances that led to his leaving the team I would guess not, but, for several years he did everything possible to field the best possible NFL team. Â It is extremely tough for a contributor to get in. The selectors do not want to "waste" a spot on a non-player. That is why they used the seniors process for LeBeau. They did not want to "waste" a spot on an assistant coach. So, they snubbed their noses at the rules and put him in through the seniors process. Meanwhile, deserving seniors get ignored. Â They put Sabol in last year and they will probably put in Parcells in a year or two. That still leaves worthy candidates like Wolf and Eddie in the wings. It's possible that he gets in, but I would not put money on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) He's turning into the Bert Blyleven of the Football HOF. He's going to get in eventually and when he does, it will be tainted for me. P.S. He does NOT deserve to get in before Cris Carter. Not even close. Tim Brown, probably. And P.P.S. is anyone else absolutely blown away by the fact that Cortez Kennedy is in the HOF and Cris Carter is not??? Like Crazy Eddie's prices, it's insane! Edited February 15, 2012 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Reed did it in Buffalo, Carter in a dome. For that alone he deceives to be in before carter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Reed is probably not going to get into the hall of fame. People remember the critical poor sportsmanship penalties that crippled the Bills on any number of occassions. As time goes on there are more and more players contending for the receiver slots available, and he already has at least Chris Carter ahead of him. His whining doesn't help much either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWest Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Carter does not deserve to get in the hall before Reed! How many Superbowls did Carter play in? How many NFC Championship games, How many meaningful playoff games?...That stuff matters. Also carter was pretty much the only threat,or go to guy in Minnesota before Moss arrived, same in Philly. Reed was splitting catches time with Thurman Thomas, James Lofton both Hall Of Famers, not to mention Beebe, and a handful of other decent receivers and tight ends. His catches may be fewer, but his catches mattered more. You're high. Reed gets in first, plus if you want to talk about babies-Carter is considered oen of the biggest dikwadz in the NFL. He was a wife beater for god's sake! Stupid thread. Â Reed is probably not going to get into the hall of fame. People remember the critical poor sportsmanship penalties that crippled the Bills on any number of occassions. As time goes on there are more and more players contending for the receiver slots available, and he already has at least Chris Carter ahead of him. His whining doesn't help much either. What the one time when he threw his helmet down in Minnesota during the Superbowl? Yeah-That game was already over at that point and he was The ONLY guy catching the ball that day for The Bills. He was a winner and leader and never did anything off the field to get in trouble like carter who was arrested for beating his wife. Reed gets in ahead of Carter. Carter is more on people's radar becuase he is on ESPN, but most writers and voters think it is Reed who goes in first (if any of the three get in at all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Carter does not deserve to get in the hall before Reed! How many Superbowls did Carter play in? How many NFC Championship games, How many meaningful playoff games?...That stuff matters. Also carter was pretty much the only threat,or go to guy in Minnesota before Moss arrived, same in Philly. Reed was splitting catches time with Thurman Thomas, James Lofton both Hall Of Famers, not to mention Beebe, and a handful of other decent receivers and tight ends. His catches may be fewer, but his catches mattered more.    What the one time when he threw his helmet down in Minnesota during the Superbowl? Yeah-That game was already over at that point and he was The ONLY guy catching the ball that day for The Bills. He was a winner and leader and never did anything off the field to get in trouble like carter who was arrested for beating his wife. Reed gets in ahead of Carter. Carter is more on people's radar becuase he is on ESPN, but most writers and voters think it is Reed who goes in first (if any of the three get in at all). Untrue - Jake Reed was a better second receiver than anyone the Bills ever had. And I'm not sure why Moss's years don't count. Check out Reed's stats from 1994-1997:  http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/ReedJa00.htm  Here are Moss's stats from 1998 onward:  http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MossRa00.htm  As for his short-lived Philly career, he had Keith Jackson on his team. He was the best TE in the league in the late 1990s. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackKe00.htm  As for Reed throwing his helmet in the SB, he did it in the first half while the Bills were driving. The Bills had a chance to make it 17-7. I don't put much stock in that, however. It was a crappy non-call.  In any event, Carter was a better player, and his catches didn't matter less (particularly since he caught far more TDs than Reed with worse QBs throwing to him). But Reed was very good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuSeYiN1978 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Who cares? If or not Reed gets in, I doubt we'll see another Bill get in for at least 30 years. We barely have pro bowlers on the squad let alone HOF'ers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cincinnati Kid Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Reed will get in. I think he has every right to be frustrated. Wouldn't you be frustrated if you had 941 NFL catches after playing your college ball at Kutztown State? Ya might be...Ya just might be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thurst44 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Reed is probably not going to get into the hall of fame. People remember the critical poor sportsmanship penalties that crippled the Bills on any number of occassions. As time goes on there are more and more players contending for the receiver slots available, and he already has at least Chris Carter ahead of him. His whining doesn't help much either. I don't think it's that clear that Carter is "ahead of him." Better or worse, Reed made the cut to ten in 2011, while Carter did not. They both made the cut to ten in 2012. In my opinion, it's insane that either of them have had to wait this long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 He's turning into the Bert Blyleven of the Football HOF. He's going to get in eventually and when he does, it will be tainted for me. P.S. He does NOT deserve to get in before Cris Carter. Not even close. Tim Brown, probably. And P.P.S. is anyone else absolutely blown away by the fact that Cortez Kennedy is in the HOF and Cris Carter is not??? Like Crazy Eddie's prices, it's insane! Â I agree with you here as Carter definitely deserves the nod before Reed even though I do believe Reed did enough in his era to warrant a place in Canton as well. The problem is that Cris, Reed, and Tim are all cancelling each other out right now. They are taking votes from each other. So, Reed won't get in until Carter does and Carter may be a snub too with Reed getting so many votes. But, to see some of the people make it in this year over Carter and even Reed was shocking. Carter should be a first ballot HOF WR period, he was that good. Some of the best hands in NFL history and hands the best at using his body to get open (even when he wasnt open) ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Cortez for real the guy never made it to the big game !! Andre has every right to be pissed when he retired he was second in all time yards or catches or something like that behind Rice & now he's like 4th & then you put in that the guys that got in did it in less time than him !! Â The guy did something that none of the others did he got his team to the big show 4 times in a row -- sure he didn't win but there will never be another team that will ever do that & seeing that Jim , Thurman , Bruce & Marv are there Andre deserves it !! Â So a baby i think not !! Deserving -- I'd say so !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hater Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Reed,Carter & Brown will get in next year after this years disgraceful vote & the uproar it caused I don't see how the voters will make that mistake again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) If we are going to talk about big catches, fine. Â Who can remember a big postseason game from Carter? Anyone? Bueller? Â Carter's postseason stats: 14 games, 63 catches, 870 yards, 13.81 ypc, 2 100-yard games, 8 TD (2 in wins, 6 in losses). Â Reed's postseason stats: 19 games, 85 catches, 1,229 yards, 14.46 ypc, 5 100-yard games, 9 TD (7 in wins, 2 in losses). Â In fact, Reed had more postseason touchdown catches in ONE game than Carter did in his entire career, or has everyone forgotten the three big TDs he caught in the Comeback? Â Deserving, hell yes. Ahead of Cris Carter? Absolutely. Edited February 16, 2012 by BRH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts