bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I am sure we will soon about fitz injuries as well. Since the redskins game hes been awful. Now I am wondering if some of the overthrows are stevies burst issues but still seems Fitz is way off lately. Would like SJ and since we have cap $ no rason to not slightly overpay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 We've got to re-sign johnson, and have to find another quality receiver for the number 2 slot. More than anything else we need a quality offensive line which means a left tackle, and two interior linemen. Maybe we need a quarterback and if we lose the next two games (and I can't see us winning either one) we may get a shot at a real franchise quarterback which may not be a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagentqb Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I like stevie but lets be real. If he hits the free agent market he isn't coming back. Some team will surely overpay him and he'll be gone for the big bucks. Bank on it. Buffalo's only hope is to tag him, which I don't believe they'll do...Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuSeYiN1978 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I, for one, appreciate the effort that Stevie has given all season. You can tell he's been nursing injuries from pretty much the beginning of the season. Despite all that, plus having no supporting cast at WR, he should have another 1,000 yard campaign (872 right now, plus 6 TD). Focus on the mistakes if you like. He's had an admirable season overall. I definitely don't wanna lose Stevie... I'd trade in media attention for wins anyday but, the little bit of media attention we DO have is pretty much cuz of Stevie and Fred Jackson... The two players we need to bring back... Now I'm no GM or anything like that but I say give Fred a high enough contract where he stays with us but nothing too crazy cuz he IS getting older... Stevie should get right below what a number one receiver deserves and when we actually get a number 1 receiver at least Stevie won't feel too bad about it... The topic at hand though, I agree, Stevie did above average this year as far as statistics and as far as his own personal career... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I tend to believe the Bills will Franchise him to buy time if they can't otherwise reach an agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuSeYiN1978 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 We've got to re-sign johnson, and have to find another quality receiver for the number 2 slot. More than anything else we need a quality offensive line which means a left tackle, and two interior linemen. Maybe we need a quarterback and if we lose the next two games (and I can't see us winning either one) we may get a shot at a real franchise quarterback which may not be a bad idea. I agree we need to re-sign him but not to find a receiver to fill the number 2 slot... I say we re-sign him to find a receiver to fill the number 1 slot... If Stevie is our best receiver then what are we really saying? We need someone better than him to take over the #1 position which will also make Stevie THAT much more better and the Bills altogether.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 We've got to re-sign johnson, and have to find another quality receiver for the number 2 slot. More than anything else we need a quality offensive line which means a left tackle, and two interior linemen. Maybe we need a quarterback and if we lose the next two games (and I can't see us winning either one) we may get a shot at a real franchise quarterback which may not be a bad idea. Our OL up till Sunday was leading the league in fewest sacks allowed....and that is with a patchwork OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 as long as he comes cheap, otherwise, f'em. Hes not fast, only has ok size, but questionable hands and hes immature. Id be happy to keep him though, hes still good, just not great. I remember a guy who had great hands,awesome speed, and never did or said one wrong thing. Also caught about 5 tiems as many td's as johnson has in his career and we just gave him away. Do i need to say his name? If you havent noticed yet,stevies a great number 2. WOW !! That was kind of a psychotic change up from the first to the second sentence !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) We would be stupid to let him walk. Yes we will be, and yes we will. Brandon is preparing his "spin" on how this is a good thing for all the kool-aid "Bell-ivers" out there. I tend to believe the Bills will Franchise him to buy time if they can't otherwise reach an agreement. He only wants 8.5 mill a year according to some reports. Franchising him will be around 9.5 mill a year. I'm not saying your wrong, you're probablly correct. But they should resign him for 4 years at 8.5 mill a year. That's the going rate (actually, less than) market for a WR with his numbers. Who cares that he goofs off sometimes, and makes a few big drops. EVERY WR does that. Bring a veteran in to help him out w/ his maturity, and perhpas the drops go away. He's a top WR talent. We don't need to create another hole to fill in the future. We are WAY under the cap. Get it done. Not to mention, everyone says he's a #2 receiver. I don't buy it. Imagine what he could do if a REAL #2 WR was next to him. Edited December 20, 2011 by RyanC883 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Kachy Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Just tossing it out there: could Stevie's lameness be cause for Fitz's overthrows? Could their timing be off? F$tz is only accurate -10 to 3 yards. He can't throw deep and makes terrible decisions. He tries to kill his wr every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Yes we will be, and yes we will. Brandon is preparing his "spin" on how this is a good thing for all the kool-aid "Bell-ivers" out there. He only wants 8.5 mill a year according to some reports. Franchising him will be around 9.5 mill a year. I'm not saying your wrong, you're probablly correct. But they should resign him for 4 years at 8.5 mill a year. That's the going rate (actually, less than) market for a WR with his numbers. Who cares that he goofs off sometimes, and makes a few big drops. EVERY WR does that. Bring a veteran in to help him out w/ his maturity, and perhpas the drops go away. He's a top WR talent. We don't need to create another hole to fill in the future. We are WAY under the cap. Get it done. Not to mention, everyone says he's a #2 receiver. I don't buy it. Imagine what he could do if a REAL #2 WR was next to him. Your post contains too much logic. The mouth-breathers around here are apparently who management listens to so you can just go ahead and add Stevie to the "Run out of town" list. I look forward to a thrilling receiving corps of Roscoe Parrish, Donald Jones, Naaman Roosevelt, Brad Smith and three games of Marcus Easley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Just tossing it out there: could Stevie's lameness be cause for Fitz's overthrows? Could their timing be off? I think it's the other way around. Fitz's inaccuracy has caused several injuries to Stevie and shaved probably 5-6 years off his lifespan. Cut Fitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) Your post contains too much logic. The mouth-breathers around here are apparently who management listens to so you can just go ahead and add Stevie to the "Run out of town" list. I look forward to a thrilling receiving corps of Roscoe Parrish, Donald Jones, Naaman Roosevelt, Brad Smith and three games of Marcus Easley. Don't worry. OBD won't go into next season with those WRs. They'll let Stevie walk, and then we'll end up taking a WR with our 1st round pick. This way OBD has a shiny new toy to placate the masses and sell some jerseys. You are correct in that next season we'll be given the hard sell on how Marcus Easley is this great undiscovered WR and he's going to do great things for the team. Why spend some $ on actually improving the team (by keeping stevie and looking for another complementary WR) when you can save a few bucks and probably sell some more tickets and jerseys by doing what i just said? Edited December 20, 2011 by Ramius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) We've got to re-sign johnson, and have to find another quality receiver for the number 2 slot. More than anything else we need a quality offensive line which means a left tackle, and two interior linemen. Maybe we need a quarterback and if we lose the next two games (and I can't see us winning either one) we may get a shot at a real franchise quarterback which may not be a bad idea. Two interior linemen? Levitre-Wood-Urbik, who are the two that simply must be replaced? I thought Wood was playing at a high level before the injury, and Levitre has played well all season long. I know Bill from NYC has a high opinion of Urbik and has been saying he wants the guy re-signed...Bill is about as critical of o-line play as they come so I tend to trust that. If you have a dissenting opinion I would love to hear it. I agree we need a LT and I think we need more depth on the line to be better suited for injuries, but the bolded part reads like you're talking about the starting lineup. Has the line been that awful this year? Edited December 20, 2011 by Big Bad Boone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 "i die for the bills" i like that. we are stupid losers if we dont resign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) I agree that we have to stop making holes. But I'm torn on the SJ re signing. At some point you have to balance what he brings positive against how he hurts the team on a semi regular basis. He's out and out cost us 2 games. He also makes drive killing drops. He's gotten flagged for excessive celebration 3 times. he celebrates first down catches in the last 2 minutes while the clock ticks away. Can we be sure this stuff is over? So, I'm not sure. He definitely needs to be sat down and given a talking to, but he is probably the most talented player on the team right now. If we let him walk we are going to regret it big time. He will be a star on whatever team he goes to. We might as well just admit to being a farm team if we can't keep a few of our own players. Edited December 20, 2011 by Dr. Fong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagentqb Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Our OL up till Sunday was leading the league in fewest sacks allowed....and that is with a patchwork OL. I believe a lot of the credit is due to Fitzy and his quick release and quick decisions. Sorta like how the offensive line looked great behind Flutie and terrible with Rob Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 At some point the Bills have gotta stop making holes in the roster where none need exist. Sign this guy to a contract in the 10-15 WR range and get it done ASAP. Great response. Simplifying a winning team, the secret is filling more holes on your roster than open up. Bills are notorious for creating more holes than they can fill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago_Mike Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Just tossing it out there: could Stevie's lameness be cause for Fitz's overthrows? Could their timing be off? good point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 We have to resign Stevie. Get R done Buddy. We lose Stevie and Fitz's #1 target is gone. I will lose more respect for this franchise if we let Stevie go. Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 We have to resign Stevie. Get R done Buddy. We lose Stevie and Fitz's #1 target is gone. I will lose more respect for this franchise if we let Stevie go. Nuff said. Damn, i didnt know anyone still had respect for the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Here is what many Bills fans including you don't get, 90+% of our players are backups. We keep putting backup talent on the field and trying to pass them off as starters. The players many of you want to overpay are *Gasp* not anywhere near worth the contracts they get from the Bills Here's what I don't think you're getting... I'm not arguing "worth". I'm saying that Stevie is our best WR. You don't improve the team by letting your best WR walk only to try and replace him with an unproven guy or some second chance FA. What difference does it make how much they pay Stevie? The team has the cap space nor is it my money. I want the team to actually improve. And to do that, you keep your better players and replace the non productive ones - regardless of whether our best players are the best players in the league or not. What half the people here seem to wish for is a continued spinning of the wheels. Similar to what we've done with the RB position. How many draft picks have we wasted because they simply refused to make McGehee happy here? Like him or not, he's still a fine back in Denver. But, everyone would rather rail on a guy, see him walk, then draft his replacement. All the while, the team keeps running in place. Letting Stevie walk, regardless of the pricetag, is completely unacceptable if you actually care about fielding a better team next season. I can see no scenario where this team is improved by letting Stevie walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I agree that we have to stop making holes. But I'm torn on the SJ re signing. At some point you have to balance what he brings positive against how he hurts the team on a semi regular basis. He's out and out cost us 2 games. He also makes drive killing drops. He's gotten flagged for excessive celebration 3 times. he celebrates first down catches in the last 2 minutes while the clock ticks away. Can we be sure this stuff is over? So, I'm not sure. I guess we can get rid of Stevie and go 0-16? Those WR's will look super-solid with Brad Smith at #1 and David Nelson at #2 ? Complaining about the one talented player we have makes no sense....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 If the Bills FO can't work a deal with Johnson in the offseason, then they should use the franchise tag on him. Johnson is the best Bills WR since Eric Moulds, it would be a huge mistake to let Johnson sign elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) If people have been following the Bills they knew he was playing with a groin injury from the start of the season. They don't heal during a season. I assumed from the start he would be on IR by November if not sooner. I am glad he is playing thru the pain, but would he have taken himself out long ago if it weren't a contract year? Maybe it's not fair to feel that way, but one thing is for sure.......showing a propensity for soft tissue and joint injuries is not the best way to get paid either. Edited December 20, 2011 by Dick Drawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfladave Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 So if all these injuries are true, how come the team never disclosed any details of these injuries? It makes you wonder if maybe, Fitzy was in fact playing hurt since the Redskins game after he took that shot, and it was never disclosed by the team. Strange. If at all possible you do not give away anything more than you have to with respect to players injuries. Why point out points of weakness for your players? I have to chuckle when i hear Bellicheat describe some of his players injuries or for that matter how Ruff will only say upper/lower body injury or concern etc. when talking about Sabre injuries. As far a Stevie goes I really hope he stays a Bill and we use draft picks and FA moves torward other positional needs, especially OLB and line depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 I heard he dropped hs phone while updating his status. Joking aside I like the kid he puts in good effort I hope they pay him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanmiami(oh) Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Don't worry. OBD won't go into next season with those WRs. They'll let Stevie walk, and then we'll end up taking a WR with our 1st round pick. This way OBD has a shiny new toy to placate the masses and sell some jerseys. You are correct in that next season we'll be given the hard sell on how Marcus Easley is this great undiscovered WR and he's going to do great things for the team. Why spend some $ on actually improving the team (by keeping stevie and looking for another complementary WR) when you can save a few bucks and probably sell some more tickets and jerseys by doing what i just said? Hard to argue with this. Expect some anti-Stevie spin coming from OBD in the offseason saying they have offered him market value and his camp won't negotiate, etc. He'll walk for nothing and flourish for a team like the Lions, Texans, or even Bengals that already have a big physical WR. They'll resign Roscoe for a couple mill and pump Easley up as the next best thing since sliced bread since he has a "new found perspective" on the game due to his health issues. If Chris Brown needs some help on the article, I'd be glad to help. I try to be optomistic about the Bills even though I realize it's not very practical. I enjoy my season tickets and going to an away game or two each year with my friends. It's especially fun for somone like me who has left the area and can reconnect with friends and family and actually get to be somewhere that you're not a novelty for wearing Bills/Sabres stuff. It really does get tough around this time a year though. Another year and another December (even November) of meaningless football. I love the anticipation of a new season cuz there is always that tiny chance we catch lightning in a bottle. 7 weeks ago, I thought we may be one of those teams this year. I travel a lot for work during the offseason months and always look forward to the fall since its football season and I know I will be home. Hopefully one of these days all our loyalty will be rewarded. Sorry for the "deep" rant I'm on vaca and have been drinking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 as long as he comes cheap, otherwise, f'em. Hes not fast, only has ok size, but questionable hands and hes immature. Id be happy to keep him though, hes still good, just not great. I remember a guy who had great hands,awesome speed, and never did or said one wrong thing. Also caught about 5 tiems as many td's as johnson has in his career and we just gave him away. Do i need to say his name? If you havent noticed yet,stevies a great number 2. as long as he comes cheap, otherwise, f'em. And then you complain when he signs with the Pats or Jets how Ralph is cheap. I remember a guy who had great hands,awesome speed, and never did or said one wrong thing. Also caught about 5 tiems as many td's as johnson has in his career and we just gave him away. Do i need to say his name? He's been in the league alot longer, I hope he caught more than Stevie. It's not like Lee's a Probowler. Let Stevie go and you are writing the same thing next season. Show me where we have a more talented receiver that we can afford to let him walk. We already dicussed FA's won't come here, so lets get rid of whatever talent we have and replace him with... oh yea, no one wants to come here. I guess we can get rid of Stevie and go 0-16? Those WR's will look super-solid with Brad Smith at #1 and David Nelson at #2 ? Complaining about the one talented player we have makes no sense....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 At some point the Bills have gotta stop making holes in the roster where none need exist. Sign this guy to a contract in the 10-15 WR range and get it done ASAP. and what if he won't accept that deal? Rumor had him asking for top 5 money and that would be a big mistake, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 and what if he won't accept that deal? Rumor had him asking for top 5 money and that would be a big mistake, IMHO. We do have the option to franchise hime like SD did with V. Jackson. Can we trade a player that we franchised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Hard to argue with this. Expect some anti-Stevie spin coming from OBD in the offseason saying they have offered him market value and his camp won't negotiate, etc. He'll walk for nothing and flourish for a team like the Lions, Texans, or even Bengals that already have a big physical WR. They'll resign Roscoe for a couple mill and pump Easley up as the next best thing since sliced bread since he has a "new found perspective" on the game due to his health issues. If Chris Brown needs some help on the article, I'd be glad to help. Just wondering why it's reported that Johnson put a offer on the table. OBD rejects it, and from what is reported He stops negotiating.Not the Bills. So then what is his commitment to stay here? The tweet yesterday seemed a little ill timed, and well stupid. At least the hoody now knows where he is hurting for game 16. Sign him, then go out and draft a true numero uno early. Then were set. because the current crop of Bills receivers aren't even decent camp fodder. We do need a true #1 though. Johnson doesn't have the speed, or hands to be a go to clutch player. he has demonstrated that against the Steelers, and Jets. along with some drive killing drops His on field antics are high school level. Sorry in advance for that too the celebration homers. Flame away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 and what if he won't accept that deal? Rumor had him asking for top 5 money and that would be a big mistake, IMHO. Obviously the guy has a market value and it'd be foolish to overpay, but I have a feeling the Bills are offering much lower than what he will get on the open market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Don't worry. OBD won't go into next season with those WRs. They'll let Stevie walk, and then we'll end up taking a WR with our 1st round pick. This way OBD has a shiny new toy to placate the masses and sell some jerseys. You are correct in that next season we'll be given the hard sell on how Marcus Easley is this great undiscovered WR and he's going to do great things for the team. Why spend some $ on actually improving the team (by keeping stevie and looking for another complementary WR) when you can save a few bucks and probably sell some more tickets and jerseys by doing what i just said? Funny how people change. You used to be an apologist who relentlessly bashed fans for opinions like yours in this post. Now you are jaded. The Bills 12 years of losing has destroyed all the goodwill created by making 10 playoff appearances and 4 super bowls in the prior 12 years. An generation of kids grew up being Bills fans and despite the losing they sold out the stadium as young adults thru the early 2000's. Now those folks are jaded. Their own kids are not growing up loving the Bills. It's going to take some sustained winning to revitalize this fanbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson's Ears Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 We would be stupid to let him walk. ...and that's exactly why they will let him... bc the front office is stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 we need to keep stevie.he is our big threat at WR. lets hope he grows up and stops choking at important times though. WR is not a big problem of ours right now.LB,DL,CB,OL,QB in that order are enough to handle at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBeane Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Two interior linemen? Levitre-Wood-Urbik, who are the two that simply must be replaced? I thought Wood was playing at a high level before the injury, and Levitre has played well all season long. I know Bill from NYC has a high opinion of Urbik and has been saying he wants the guy re-signed...Bill is about as critical of o-line play as they come so I tend to trust that. If you have a dissenting opinion I would love to hear it. I agree we need a LT and I think we need more depth on the line to be better suited for injuries, but the bolded part reads like you're talking about the starting lineup. Has the line been that awful this year? Totally agreed. I would love to hear the logic behind that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Unless we're going to spend 25 million in free agency next year, why in the world would anyone NOT want to re-sign our best receiver? The money is there, our team needs 5 solid WR's for the offense we run and some of you fans would rather give Ralph your money than someone who is fun to watch and a top 25 NFL wideout. This deal will get done. Guaranteed. In case some of you haven't noticed, we have our backup qb, street players and our inexperienced RB playing WR for our team. Roscoe and Easley are huge question marks next year. Jones seems to be injury prone as well. When people say let SJ walk you might as well type "I have no understanding of our squad or how far under the average NFL team we are in gross player salaries...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I tend to believe the Bills will Franchise him to buy time if they can't otherwise reach an agreement. IIRC, John Wawrow reported the Bills would not be franchising Johnson. Our OL up till Sunday was leading the league in fewest sacks allowed....and that is with a patchwork OL. This remains the most misleading metric to grade an OL. It is indicative of nothing more than Fitzpatrick getting rid of the ball on designed plays where the ball is out in less than 2 seconds. Even Erik Pears can't mess that up. Cue the OBD spin machine of Brandon and Berchtold, who no doubt are in high gear to explain why they couldn't come to terms. Negotiation is a two-way street and by the tone of this thread it doesn't appear that fans are buying the BS launched out of OBD. Sure it's anecdotal, but I don't talk to many fans at the games who want to see Johnson go. Commitment to no commitment but setting the team up for sale. Re-signing SJ adversely affects the P&L statement, so that's a no go for the franchise. The more things change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I agree that we have to stop making holes. But I'm torn on the SJ re signing. At some point you have to balance what he brings positive against how he hurts the team on a semi regular basis. He's out and out cost us 2 games. He also makes drive killing drops. He's gotten flagged for excessive celebration 3 times. he celebrates first down catches in the last 2 minutes while the clock ticks away. Can we be sure this stuff is over? So, I'm not sure. And he posts significant unreported injuries on his Facebook to prove a handful of ranting fans wrong despite the potential repercussions with the league, his coaches being undermined in their reports and future opponents targeting him. He posts about how the last drop wasnt his fault. Blames god for the steelers drop. 3 flags for the celebrations He isn't learning. Hopefully he does sooner than later. You'd think after the game last year he'd learn to think twice and post a bit less. Lessons seem to take a lot of reps to sink in. Edited December 21, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts