I have a problem with Cooper Dejean type players

[NastyNateSoldiers]

Correct me if I'm wrong but these guys never pan out especially when drafted in first 2 rds where pressure is on them to contribute right away. 

 

I've seen Corners move to safety as vets and still play on a high level or even mid to late Rd pks like Poyer and Hyde make the transition and become studs but please if anyone here knows of a player that went high in the draft and was able to either move from corner to safety or vis versa and do it at a high level right away. We just recently seen Simmons get drafted high and he was a stud at Clemson and moving to safety derailed his career and he played that postion in college as well as corner and Lber these hybrid tweener types never pan out drafted high the ones that do or the lower Rd pks that get the time and patience from the coaches to make that full transition and if your thinking about flat out using Dejean like in college as a hybrid player on the NFL level that never works as well. So if anyone remembers someone that actually made this transition please add to the chat, thanks. 

Cooper will not be a good corner in the NFL as well he has tight hips and gets burned by lower level players in the big ten . I realize he's made some splash plays on tape but thats not gonna help him on the NFL level where u see professionals on a daily basis in practice and at 100% on Sundays. 

[Mark Vader]

Don't start them right away. Let them sit and learn.

[Brandon]

I don't think he's a hybrid player.  He's a zone CB with good size,  and given his pro day testing,  looks like an athletic freak.  If he doesn't make it at CB,  then you move him to safety,  but I'd give him his first shot at CB. 

Edited April 23 by Brandon

[mrags]

I agree that o don’t see what makes him look so special to other people. To me he doesn’t jump off the page. I definitely wouldn’t take him in rd1. I could see a late 2nd or after for him as I think he’s a good athlete and can play multiple positions. But in the 1st rd I’m looking for a positional stud, someone that is dominant at their position. Not a guy that played one position In college but projects to something else in the pros. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

13 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I don't think he's a hybrid player.  He's a zone CB with good size,  and given his pro day testing,  looks like an athletic freak.  If he doesn't make it at CB,  then you move him to safety,  but I'd give him his first shot at CB. 

That might be his best spot as Zone corner but most people got him moving to Safety as if we didn't him to move him to another position that's something that never hardly works especially for high picks players. I mean we seen Milano make that transaction from Safety to Lber but he's one of few that's done that

[947]

Tweeners who don't fit a singular position do usually bust, but there have been some successes.

 

Brian Urlacher played Safety-LB hybrid & returned kicks at New Mexico, he was a stud at MLB from day 1 in the NFL.

[schoolhouserock]

18 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but these guys never pan out especially when drafted in first 2 rds where pressure is on them to contribute right away. 

 

I've seen Corners move to safety as vets and still play on a high level or even mid to late Rd pks like Poyer and Hyde make the transition and become studs but please if anyone here knows of a player that went high in the draft and was able to either move from corner to safety or vis versa and do it at a high level right away. We just recently seen Simmons get drafted high and he was a stud at Clemson and moving to safety derailed his career and he played that postion in college as well as corner and Lber these hybrid tweener types never pan out drafted high the ones that do or the lower Rd pks that get the time and patience from the coaches to make that full transition and if your thinking about flat out using Dejean like in college as a hybrid player on the NFL level that never works as well. So if anyone remembers someone that actually made this transition please add to the chat, thanks. 

Cooper will not be a good corner in the NFL as well he has tight hips and gets burned by lower level players in the big ten . I realize he's made some splash plays on tape but thats not gonna help him on the NFL level where u see professionals on a daily basis in practice and at 100% on Sundays. 

One need only look at a former Hawkeye and great Buffalo Bill to see how this can work: Micah Hyde. Hyde was a zone corner before successfully moving over to Safety. DeJean has better tools than Hyde had and therefore warrants a higher selection.

 

No idea where you are getting “tight hips” or “burned by lower level players”. As someone who has watched every game Coop has played, this is demonstrably false.

 

Dejean is also a fantastic punt returner. Tough, smart, and super athletic. He has a real chance to be every bit as good as Hyde.

 

 

[Brandon]

2 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

That might be his best spot as Zone corner but most people got him moving to Safety as if we didn't him to move him to another position that's something that never hardly works especially for high picks players. I mean we seen Milano make that transaction from Safety to Lber but he's one of few that's done that

 

They're projecting a move to safety primarily because he's a white guy.  Non-factor,  IMO. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

15 minutes ago, mrags said:

I agree that o don’t see what makes him look so special to other people. To me he doesn’t jump off the page. I definitely wouldn’t take him in rd1. I could see a late 2nd or after for him as I think he’s a good athlete and can play multiple positions. But in the 1st rd I’m looking for a positional stud, someone that is dominant at their position. Not a guy that played one position In college but projects to something else in the pros. 

Brian Urlacher says hello 👋 

[GunnerBill]

I think he is a zone corner and will be a good one. I would not move him to safety personally. 

 

As for the wary of hybrids..... Kyle Dugger, Kyle Hamilton, Tyran Mathieu - all hybrids in college who have been good to excellent in the NFL. 

[mrags]

5 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Brian Urlacher says hello 👋 

 

Well. I think the difference is that Dejean is listed as a CB in college (not every year but in 2023 he was) and we’re talking about him moving around and being a tweener at multiple positions in the NFL. Where as Urlacher was the tweener in college and he played generally LB in the nfl (other than his first season). 
 

my point is this, in the first round you should be getting a guy that you think is going to be a solid starter at a specific position of need in your team. Not a Swiss Army knife that isn’t great at anything but able to do 3-4 different positions. To me, this kid looks like a go between of a safety and a CB, and will excel at special teams. I don’t see him as much more than a role player. Which is fine, but not worthy of a wasted #1 pick. 
 

And for the record, bringing up a guy like Urlacher being drafted 24 years ago would be like anyone bringing up Len Dawson being one of the best ever. Completely different times. The game has changed. Not even in the same argument. 

 

[SCBills]

ZERO chance i'm drafting a guy in RD1 that I "hope" can play CB.  Annoying to even discuss this, but I get why we are.

[mrags]

Just now, SCBills said:

ZERO chance i'm drafting a guy in RD1 that I "hope" can play CB.  Annoying to even discuss this, but I get why we are.

Thank you. This is where I’m at 

[Low Positive]

28 minutes ago, Brandon said:

 

They're projecting a move to safety primarily because he's a white guy.  Non-factor,  IMO. 

You are probably joking, but the last white CB to start a game was Sehorn in 2003.

[Brandon]

9 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

You are probably joking, but the last white CB to start a game was Sehorn in 2003.

 

No,  I'm not joking at all.  I don't think most NFL teams are going to be guilty of it,  but outside of that,  a lot of people are going to take one look at a white guy playing CB in college and immediately assume that he should move to safety in the NFL.   Maybe if he'd posted some pedestrian numbers at his pro day.  Instead,  it was borderline freakish,  especially for a guy one month clear off a broken leg.  

Edited April 23 by Brandon

[Udubalum07]

For those that said he isn't great at either, the guy didn't give up a single pass over 20 yards all year, zero touchdowns given up last year.  Two time all american.  That is pretty elite from a CB.

 

The guy has a history of playing safety, both in college and high school, so its not that he is a complete novice at either position. He had excellent coaching from Phil Parker at Iowa.  Just take a look at all the defensive backs currently in the pros from Iowa.  Also, is an excellent returner. 

 

My biggest worry would be his late season injury and even though most people recover these days, it may be a 2 year process before he is himself. 

 

[Brandon]

1 minute ago, Udubalum07 said:

My biggest worry would be his late season injury and even though most people recover these days, it may be a 2 year process before he is himself. 

 

 

Go look at his pro day numbers a week or so ago.  I don't think it's an issue at all.  He's fine.   

[MrEpsYtown]

I think Kyle Hamilton comes to mind. But he also plays in a defensive scheme that is made for free lancing and things of that nature. I do think it is a fair critique because I don't think McDermott's defense is very multiple and so I am not sure a player like that would have success as a swiss army knife. That said I think he'd be a great corner in this system and an all-pro safety. 

[BullBuchanan]

 

1 hour ago, mrags said:

 

Well. I think the difference is that Dejean is listed as a CB in college (not every year but in 2023 he was) and we’re talking about him moving around and being a tweener at multiple positions in the NFL. Where as Urlacher was the tweener in college and he played generally LB in the nfl (other than his first season). 
 

my point is this, in the first round you should be getting a guy that you think is going to be a solid starter at a specific position of need in your team. Not a Swiss Army knife that isn’t great at anything but able to do 3-4 different positions. To me, this kid looks like a go between of a safety and a CB, and will excel at special teams. I don’t see him as much more than a role player. Which is fine, but not worthy of a wasted #1 pick. 
 

And for the record, bringing up a guy like Urlacher being drafted 24 years ago would be like anyone bringing up Len Dawson being one of the best ever. Completely different times. The game has changed. Not even in the same argument. 

 

Minkah Fitzpatrick? Tyrann Mathieu?

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

That might be his best spot as Zone corner but most people got him moving to Safety as if we didn't him to move him to another position that's something that never hardly works especially for high picks players. I mean we seen Milano make that transaction from Safety to Lber but he's one of few that's done that

Milano made that transition during his freshman year of college 

 

He didn't even play one full season as a safety... Just a few appearances as a 210 pound kid

 

So he was safety size

 

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

you want to speak to his manager?

[mrags]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Minkah Fitzpatrick? Tyrann Mathieu?

Well. Mathieu was a 3rd rd pick. 
 

both were also considered safeties in the nfl. Which is what they are. Fitzpatrick even asked to be traded by Miami because he was out of position and went to the Steelers and haven’t looked back from the safety position since. which is also fine, but in reality if the Bills take a S in the first round with the other needs we have I think it’s a HUGE MISTAKE, and I’m pretty sure most would agree. 
 

im not saying there is anything wrong with Dejean. But I think it’s apparent that it’s not a guarantee what position he is best suited for in the NFL. And using a first rd pick on a guy that’s not considered one of the best defenders in football like both Mathieu and Fitzpatrick were coming out of college, would be a huge disappointment. 

[H2o]

Just now, mrags said:

Well. Mathieu was a 3rd rd pick.

Only because of his off-the-field stuff. He was heralded as a potential 1st Rounder prior to. 

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, H2o said:

Only because of his off-the-field stuff. He was heralded as a potential 1st Rounder prior to. 

While I generally agree with you and remember that. But 10+ years ago is rough to remember so I looked it up and saw this on his Wiki page

 

“Prior to the 2012 season, Mathieu was ranked as the third best cornerback prospect in the upcoming 2013 NFL draft by NFL analyst Chad Reuter. On November 29, 2012, Mathieu stated his intentions to enter the 2013 NFL Draft.[24] Mathieu attended the NFL Combine and completed all of the combine and positional drills. On March 28, 2013, Mathieu attended LSU's pro day, but chose to stand on his combine numbers and only performed positional drills.[25] He was projected to be a second or third round pick by the majority of NFL draft experts and scouts. At the conclusion of the pre-draft process, Mathieu was ranked as the tenth best cornerback prospect in the draft by DraftScout.com“

 

but that’s besides the point. Because I’m fully remembering him being more worthy of a possible 1st rd pick. I remember I wanted him (not in the 1st rd). But the facts are still out there that both of these guys were considered sure high picks (if not for off field issues), not some tweeners that don’t have a position. Mathieu is another one that got drafted and never changed positions from Safety after entering the league. He’s been on multiple teams and still continues to be a S. And I would argue there isn’t a S in this draft that is worthy of a first rd pick

[SWATeam]

This is one of the handful of defensive players I'd be fine with being our 1st round pick.  He'd be a star in our scheme and an elite return man.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

I'm starting to want this dude in Round 1 just because of the divisive discourse that will ensue

[BillsShredder83]

5 hours ago, 947 said:

Tweeners who don't fit a singular position do usually bust, but there have been some successes.

 

Brian Urlacher played Safety-LB hybrid & returned kicks at New Mexico, he was a stud at MLB from day 1 in the NFL.

parsons kinda fits this mold.  although i agree with the overall point

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

5 hours ago, mrags said:

 

Well. I think the difference is that Dejean is listed as a CB in college (not every year but in 2023 he was) and we’re talking about him moving around and being a tweener at multiple positions in the NFL. Where as Urlacher was the tweener in college and he played generally LB in the nfl (other than his first season). 
 

my point is this, in the first round you should be getting a guy that you think is going to be a solid starter at a specific position of need in your team. Not a Swiss Army knife that isn’t great at anything but able to do 3-4 different positions. To me, this kid looks like a go between of a safety and a CB, and will excel at special teams. I don’t see him as much more than a role player. Which is fine, but not worthy of a wasted #1 pick. 
 

And for the record, bringing up a guy like Urlacher being drafted 24 years ago would be like anyone bringing up Len Dawson being one of the best ever. Completely different times. The game has changed. Not even in the same argument. 

 

Urlacher would absolutely dominate in today’s NFL probably more so than he did during his reign in the mid 2000s. He fits the mould perfectly at what a MLB should be in this day and age. A great ball player is a great ball player. DJ has some of the best instincts I’ve seen from this draft class and the only reason he’s getting pidgeon-holed is because of his race. Lots of players change positions coming into the NFL, but I still believe this guy could be a legit corner. Aaron Donald can play every position on the D-line…same with Zack Martin on the offensive side so technically they are Swiss Army knives as well. Doesn’t make them any less dominant. 

[Low Positive]

1 hour ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

I'm starting to want this dude in Round 1 just because of the divisive discourse that will ensue

Unless the Bills trade up for MHJ or Nabers, half of this board will hate the pick and instantly declare that they are no longer fans of the team. And even if they do trade up, some on here will be mad that they gave up too much. It really doesn't matter who it is, at least 50% of TBDers will think that they could have done a better job than Beane. 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

16 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Unless the Bills trade up for MHJ or Nabers, half of this board will hate the pick and instantly declare that they are no longer fans of the team. And even if they do trade up, some on here will be mad that they gave up too much. It really doesn't matter who it is, at least 50% of TBDers will think that they could have done a better job than Beane. 

 

It'll be different if it's a WR though. If it's a defensive player, this place is gonna be fun on Thursday. 

[Chaos]

5 hours ago, Brandon said:

 

No,  I'm not joking at all.  I don't think most NFL teams are going to be guilty of it,  but outside of that,  a lot of people are going to take one look at a white guy playing CB in college and immediately assume that he should move to safety in the NFL.   Maybe if he'd posted some pedestrian numbers at his pro day.  Instead,  it was borderline freakish,  especially for a guy one month clear off a broken leg.  

NFL will be a racist as the next guy when reviewing CBs. 

[bigK14094]

6 hours ago, Brandon said:

I don't think he's a hybrid player.  He's a zone CB with good size,  and given his pro day testing,  looks like an athletic freak.  If he doesn't make it at CB,  then you move him to safety,  but I'd give him his first shot at CB. 

I saw Bean react to a question about this guy.  This guy is definitely in play at 28.  And, we know McD's focus on drafting DB's high.

[Chaos]

19 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Unless the Bills trade up for MHJ or Nabers, half of this board will hate the pick and instantly declare that they are no longer fans of the team. And even if they do trade up, some on here will be mad that they gave up too much. It really doesn't matter who it is, at least 50% of TBDers will think that they could have done a better job than Beane. 

Aside from Josh Allen, TBD consensus has been probably about as good as Beane. 

[bigK14094]

6 hours ago, Brandon said:

 

They're projecting a move to safety primarily because he's a white guy.  Non-factor,  IMO. 

Well, I can't tell from what I have seen wrt his race.

[Warriorspikes51]

Maybe the guy becomes great…

 

but IMO it would be a horrific use of a premium draft pick.

 

I would much rather try to sign Justin Simmons this summer or draft a Safety in Round 4 or 5 that can compete
 

or if you project him as a corner…we are OK there for this season.  

Edited April 23 by Warriorspikes51

[Maine-iac]

Aaron Williams?  Bills second round pick at corner.  Eventually was our starting safety.  

[Low Positive]

10 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Aside from Josh Allen, TBD consensus has been probably about as good as Beane. 

Terell Bernard? James Cook? Christian Benford? Half this board hated the Milano pick in the 5th, FFS.

 

[BullBuchanan]

4 hours ago, mrags said:

Well. Mathieu was a 3rd rd pick. 
 

both were also considered safeties in the nfl. Which is what they are. Fitzpatrick even asked to be traded by Miami because he was out of position and went to the Steelers and haven’t looked back from the safety position since. which is also fine, but in reality if the Bills take a S in the first round with the other needs we have I think it’s a HUGE MISTAKE, and I’m pretty sure most would agree. 
 

im not saying there is anything wrong with Dejean. But I think it’s apparent that it’s not a guarantee what position he is best suited for in the NFL. And using a first rd pick on a guy that’s not considered one of the best defenders in football like both Mathieu and Fitzpatrick were coming out of college, would be a huge disappointment. 

Why would most agree with taking a safety in the first round being a terrible decision if an elite prospect is there? We know from firsthand experience that Rapp is not a starting caliber Safety, and Mike Edwards has been atrocious throughout his career. You may not care about it much in April, but when Mahomes is burning us deep in January, you'll sure act surprised and blame the player when the GM and fans in the know knew full well they weren't up to the task.

We have three primary needs: Safety(x2), DE and WR. In a deep WR draft, it's more likely we can get good talent later than a starting caliber safety.

Edited April 23 by BullBuchanan

[NoSaint]

8 hours ago, Brandon said:

 

No,  I'm not joking at all.  I don't think most NFL teams are going to be guilty of it,  but outside of that,  a lot of people are going to take one look at a white guy playing CB in college and immediately assume that he should move to safety in the NFL.   Maybe if he'd posted some pedestrian numbers at his pro day.  Instead,  it was borderline freakish,  especially for a guy one month clear off a broken leg.  

I absolutely think some coaches will be subject to following the subconscious stereotype. 
 

no catastrophic harm but you watch the film and the comps that jump to mind inevitably will share some physical characteristics. Our brains naturally create buckets for patterns. No white guys play corner isn’t an absurd one to instinctually have lingering back there somewhere 

 

fair to him? Probably not. In the scope of we are all human for better or worse? For sure. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

9 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Brian Urlacher says hello 👋 

 

8 hours ago, mrags said:

 

Well. I think the difference is that Dejean is listed as a CB in college (not every year but in 2023 he was) and we’re talking about him moving around and being a tweener at multiple positions in the NFL. Where as Urlacher was the tweener in college and he played generally LB in the nfl (other than his first season). 
 

my point is this, in the first round you should be getting a guy that you think is going to be a solid starter at a specific position of need in your team. Not a Swiss Army knife that isn’t great at anything but able to do 3-4 different positions. To me, this kid looks like a go between of a safety and a CB, and will excel at special teams. I don’t see him as much more than a role player. Which is fine, but not worthy of a wasted #1 pick. 
 

And for the record, bringing up a guy like Urlacher being drafted 24 years ago would be like anyone bringing up Len Dawson being one of the best ever. Completely different times. The game has changed. Not even in the same argument. 

 

They really had to go back 24yrs. 😂