PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[WotAGuy]

4 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

I am seeing a number of people saying that this could be an out for The Bills, that if the seats don't sell, there is probably a clause that could get them out of Buffalo. Thoughts on this?

 

It's exhausting constantly worrying about this. 

Calling @Kirby Jackson

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Calling @Kirby Jackson

Yeah, it’s not. This isn’t some “trick” being played by the Pegulas. This is a process that MANY teams use to offset the private portion of the stadium financing. They pass it along to the consumers. The Bills will be here for a generation (at least).

 

They’ve started with the most expensive locations to discourage people from going back a tier. They don’t have a large buyer pool at the higher levels. They can’t have those people downgrading their spend or they won’t achieve their revenue objectives. They’re rolling it out in phases to maximize revenue and adjust pricing as needed.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

Im not arguing for or against PSL’s. Im not telling anyone not to buy them.

 

Im not sure how to say this more clearly…
 

Im simply arguing that PSL’s are not the “norm” in business. 

 

Why would you do all that arguing over semantics?

 

It IS the norm for big business to gouge customers for whatever the market will bear.

 

It IS also the norm for big business to exploit and manipulate government........in ways ranging from skillfully avoiding taxes to benefiting directly from their application and WELL beyond.

 

Your are far too concerned with the tactics when it's all the same strategy.  

 

If you are "not arguing against" PSL's..........why is the distinction of tactics so important to you?

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Why would you do all that arguing over semantics?

 

It IS the norm for big business to gouge customers for whatever the market will bear.

 

It IS also the norm for big business to exploit and manipulate government........in ways ranging from skillfully avoiding taxes to benefiting directly from their application and WELL beyond.

 

Your are far too concerned with the tactics when it's all the same strategy.  

 

If you are "not arguing against" PSL's..........why is the distinction of tactics so important to you?

 

The argument is because he does not want to accept the facts that this is business as usual across many sectors.  That would reduce the fake outrage over nothing.

 

You can find examples across tons of business models - everyday things like Amazon, Costco, Sam’s Club, BJs, and places like Movie theaters, Barnes and Nobles, Gaming places and indoor kids bouncy centers.  
 

Most companies - especially large places like Amazon - build facilities in communities on the back of tax breaks, salary tax cuts, and funding from small business groups that all come from the taxpayer.  I mean look at all the hoops cut when Amazon even mentioned a Warehouse potentially getting built in NYS.  Everyone was throwing taxpayer money just for a shot - including gifting them huge amounts of property that was state and county owned.

 

Then the consumer - be it an Amazon subscriber or a Costco member - pays a fee typically yearly for the right to purchase items from these shops - with limited return or discounts.

 

There are gas stations that were built and received large payroll breaks - especially during Covid - to maintain employment levels and they have monthly and annual fees.  You still pay for gas, but get a 20 cent decrease compared to a non member.

 

There are tons of city/state owned Golf courses that were purchased with tax payer money, you still need a membership to guarantee tee times and you still need to pay for your round.

 

The model is all over - not just the NFL or European Football - they use different terms and in some cases slightly different tweaks, but it is not new nor exclusive to this situation.

 

The membership and pay model is common and most new construction be it a bar, a restaurant, a bookstore, a gas station, a football stadium, a event center - all get funding or reduced taxes, payroll breaks for a certain time, low cost or free loans from the city/state, etc.  the funding is not as open as the funding provided to the Bills, but there is money from the taxpayers involved in most builds.

 

There are plenty of reasons to be angry, but the misplaced anger and the anger over perceived slights is just so overwhelming in this thread.  The Bills could have done a better job, but at this point we know next to nothing and people are making up things to create anger.  @Kirby Jackson has talked and given insight from actually going through this process as an insider/employee and people try to argue minor semantics.  I will wait for my section to be called before I worry if my PSL is going to be $500, $1000, or  $10,000 or anyplace in between.  My outrage can wait until there is actually something to be upset about.  
 

 

 

 

Edited March 30 by Rochesterfan

[WotAGuy]

On 3/28/2024 at 3:54 PM, Einstein said:

 

Tax break = / = paying for the stadium.

The taxpayers are literally PAYING for the stadium. Then they're being charged to enter the stadium. Then being charged to sit in the seat.

 

Your analogy isn’t consistent with the stadium situation:
1) Taxpayers are only paying a portion of the stadium and in return there will be county sales and state income taxes collected from the games/teams that play there. So there is some return on the “investment”. I believe this is one way that the state and county justify the “investment “ in the stadium. 
 

2) Some consumers are choosing to pay a PSL that will be used to finance the rest of the construction cost as part of their “investment” in attending the games. And contrary to your analogy, a PSL will not get you through the door.  Only a game ticket will get you through the door. The PSL and ticket cost are effectively one cost because you cannot own one without the other.  
 

So your three-part example does not exist in the NFL or anywhere that I can think of. Basically taxpayers fund part of the venue construction for a financial return and your PSL/ticket combo get you in the door to watch the show. 
 

This is very similar to the example I provided previously where the state and county paid to build the amphitheater in Syracuse and your ticket/Ticketmaster fee combo get you in the door to watch the show. 
 

You keep dismissing everyone’s examples while reciting your example which does not reflect the reality of the stadium situation. 

[papazoid]

WBEN has learned from highly informed sources that the early season ticket retention rate thus far is in the 75% range.

 

Poloncarz believe the Bills are testing the PSL market with the higher end seating and expects they will adjust the costs for the remaining PSL's, based on that outcome. The county executive believes the costs should be known for all up front.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/saying-it-s-all-about-money-poloncarz-launches-blistering-attack-on-buffalo-bills-psl-process/ar-BB1kMaIv?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=f275bddc381840e6be2f359f3d788277&ei=10

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Why would you do all that arguing over semantics?

 

If you are "not arguing against" PSL's..........why is the distinction of tactics so important to you?

 

It’s not important for me at all.

 

I made a factual statement, Kirby wrongly classified my statement as false, I defended it.

 

Thats the entirety. 

 

Businesses may attempt to gouge as much as they can in each sector, but the vast majority of businesses were not given over $800 million dollars by those same taxpayers they are gouging. That is rare. It has happened, but it’s the far outlier ran than the rule. I’ve said it before, but for any comparison to be valid, it must contain ALL three items.

 

1) Taxpayers paid for the business/product/venue to be created.

 

2) AND the business/product/venue then gouges those same taxpayers with a large fee before they can utilize or enjoy the business they just built for them.

 

3) AND they then charge the actual price/fee for what is consumed.

 

Fulfilling all 3 of those is rare for any business. It happens in sports, on a percentage basis, far more often than any other sector.

 

Thats not semantics. Its a fundamental difference.

 

[Einstein]

53 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Your analogy isn’t consistent with the stadium situation:
1) Taxpayers are only paying a portion of the stadium and in return there will be county sales and state income taxes collected from the games/teams that play there. So there is some return on the “investment”. I believe this is one way that the state and county justify the “investment “ in the stadium. 
 

2) Some consumers are choosing to pay a PSL that will be used to finance the rest of the construction cost as part of their “investment” in attending the games. And contrary to your analogy, a PSL will not get you through the door.  Only a game ticket will get you through the door. The PSL and ticket cost are effectively one cost because you cannot own one without the other.  
 

So your three-part example does not exist in the NFL or anywhere that I can think of. Basically taxpayers fund part of the venue construction for a financial return and your PSL/ticket combo get you in the door to watch the show. 

 

@BADOLBILZ, now THIS post above is semantics.

 

Correcting a (clearly figurative) depiction of the situation with minor or insignificant sentence changes. Writing things such as “a PSL will not get you through the door.  Only a game ticket will get you through the door” … lol. I think everyone outside of WOT understand I was speaking figuratively when saying ‘through the door’.

 

Semantics vs fundamental difference.

 

53 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

This is very similar to the example I provided previously where the state and county paid to build the amphitheater in Syracuse and your ticket/Ticketmaster fee combo get you in the door to watch the show. 
 

You keep dismissing everyone’s examples while reciting your example which does not reflect the reality of the stadium situation. 

 

The Ticket Fee comparison doesn’t work. I explained this before so i’ll just copy/paste.

 

PSL’s and Ticket Fees are completely different. There is a reason why Ticketmaster and Stubhub don’t label their ticket fees as PSL’s.

 

1) PSL’s originate from the organization producing the product (Buffalo Bills, for example). The originating organization receives all 3 parts of the equation (taxpayer money, PSL, and ticket cost).

 

Ticket fees originate from a completely separate entity (a third party) that uses stub fees as their business model and this model does not benefit the originating organization. They ONLY receive the fee, not the taxpayer money or the ticket cost.

2) Taxpayers did not subsidize the building of Ticketmaster and Stubhub. Therefore there is no “double taxation” so to speak.

 

3) PSLs come with perceived value. Conversely, ticket service fees offer no such value proposition; they are akin to a delivery charge, which increases the cost of the product without enhancing its value.

 

They simply aren’t the same at all. Though they’re both crappy.

Edited March 30 by Einstein

[Punching Bag]

https://www.wkbw.com/sports/buffalo-bills/im-just-disappointed-erie-county-executive-on-rumored-psl-prices-at-new-buffalo-bills-stadium

 

Speaking at a press conference on Friday, Poloncarz was asked about the rumored PSL prices and said it is very upsetting that the Bills would not release what the PSL prices were for all seats.

 

• The county executive also said has talked to Governor Kathy Hochul about it and she is also concerned.
• "We should know now what are the costs associated with every PSL that's going to be sold. From any that are $500 a PSL to the ones you heard about in the club seats, which are very expensive. And they were refusing to do that. The county doesn't have a role in the PSL agreement, we don't. I'm just disappointed that it's gotten to this point. I let the Bills representatives and Legends know that."

 

Poloncarz also said during the press conference "It's the modern NFL where it's all about money."

 

 

[WotAGuy]

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

@BADOLBILZ, now THIS post above is semantics.

 

Correcting a (clearly figurative) depiction of the situation with minor or insignificant sentence changes. Writing things such as “a PSL will not get you through the door.  Only a game ticket will get you through the door” … lol. I think everyone outside of WOT understand I was speaking figuratively when saying ‘through the door’.

 

Semantics vs fundamental difference.

 

 

The Ticket Fee comparison doesn’t work. I explained this before so i’ll just copy/paste.

 

PSL’s and Ticket Fees are completely different. There is a reason why Ticketmaster and Stubhub don’t label their ticket fees as PSL’s.

 

1) PSL’s originate from the organization producing the product (Buffalo Bills, for example). The originating organization receives all 3 parts of the equation (taxpayer money, PSL, and ticket cost).

 

Ticket fees originate from a completely separate entity (a third party) that uses stub fees as their business model and this model does not benefit the originating organization. They ONLY receive the fee, not the taxpayer money or the ticket cost.

2) Taxpayers did not subsidize the building of Ticketmaster and Stubhub. Therefore there is no “double taxation” so to speak.

 

3) PSLs come with perceived value. Conversely, ticket service fees offer no such value proposition; they are akin to a delivery charge, which increases the cost of the product without enhancing its value.

 

They simply aren’t the same at all. Though they’re both crappy.

Nice deflection. You conveniently left out the part about your example not matching the reality of the Bills’ stadium/ticket/PSL scenario.  Your Taco Bell example is just as full of holes, no matter how much you change it now. 🤣

Edited March 30 by WotAGuy

[Einstein]

9 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Nice deflection.

 

What deflection? I directly refuted what you wrote.

 

9 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

 

You conveniently left out the part about your example not matching the reality of the Bills’ stadium/ticket/PSL scenario.m. 🤣

 

How is the reality different?

Do you mean your comments on how fans are only paying for 70% of the stadium instead of 100%? Or do you mean your comment on how some fans see PSL’s as an investment.

 

 

[WotAGuy]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

What deflection? I directly refuted what you wrote.

 

 

How is the reality different?

Do you mean your comments on how fans are only paying for 70% of the stadium instead of 100%? Or do you mean your comment on how some fans see PSL’s as an investment.

 

 

Your original Taco Bell example that started this whole discussion is not consistent with the reality of the Bills’ PSL and ticket process.  Your example has a step that does not occur in the Bills’ situation.  So you were wrong from the start, despite changing your wording now to make it sound like “that’s what I meant”.  
 

Maybe if you posted a link to that article Yahoo written about you we could see where your “about faces” originate from. By the way, I also have had articles written about me; you’ll find them in the police blotter of some well-established, highly circulated newspapers. 😆

Edited March 30 by WotAGuy

[WotAGuy]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

It’s not important for me at all.

 

I made a factual statement, Kirby wrongly classified my statement as false, I defended it.

 

Thats the entirety. 

 

Businesses may attempt to gouge as much as they can in each sector, but the vast majority of businesses were not given over $800 million dollars by those same taxpayers they are gouging. That is rare. It has happened, but it’s the far outlier ran than the rule. I’ve said it before, but for any comparison to be valid, it must contain ALL three items.

 

1) Taxpayers paid for the business/product/venue to be created.

 

2) AND the business/product/venue then gouges those same taxpayers with a large fee before they can utilize or enjoy the business they just built for them.

 

3) AND they then charge the actual price/fee for what is consumed.

 

Fulfilling all 3 of those is rare for any business. It happens in sports, on a percentage basis, far more often than any other sector.

 

Thats not semantics. Its a fundamental difference.

 

How are the Bills gouging the taxpayers?  

Taxpayers have no obligation or need to purchase a PSL. It’s a voluntary choice to pay for entertainment.

 

The only taxpayers being offered the opportunity to purchase PSLs are apparently buying them up at a fairly high rate.  And that’s just a very small percentage of the relatively few taxpayers that will have an opportunity to purchase a PSL. PSLs are only being offered to current customers. And the large percentage of those customers haven’t even been told what their PSL will cost, so how can it be “gouging”?

 

Why do you conflate “gouging the taxpayers” with the Bills offering existing customers to remain customers at a similar or better amenity level in an entirely new and improved venue? In fact, many of the Bills’ existing customers who will be offered PSLs aren’t even NYS taxpayers, being from Canada and other states. 
 

With regard to your item 2 above, I think it shows growth and maturity on your part to concur that PSLs are a fee, just as Ticketmaster charges a fee.  We are finding common ground.  
 

 

Edited March 30 by WotAGuy
More reasons to dismiss this guy

[Punching Bag]

16 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

How are the Bills gouging the taxpayers?  

Taxpayers have no obligation or need to purchase a PSL. It’s a voluntary choice to pay for entertainment.

 

The only taxpayers being offered the opportunity to purchase PSLs are apparently buying them up at a fairly high rate.  And that’s just a very small percentage of the relatively few taxpayers that will have an opportunity to purchase a PSL. PSLs are only being offered to current customers. And the large percentage of those customers haven’t even been told what their PSL will cost, so how can it be “gouging”?

 

Why do you conflate “gouging the taxpayers” with the Bills offering existing customers to remain customers at a similar or better amenity level in an entirely new and improved venue? In fact, many of the Bills’ existing customers who will be offered PSLs aren’t even NYS taxpayers, being from Canada and other states. 
 

 

 

Taxpapers are not only ones buying PSLs.  They have been selling some to partners including ticket agencies.

Agencies out of state and did not contribute taxes to building of stadium so the profit rate is higher..

[WotAGuy]

Just now, Punching Bag said:

 

Taxpapers are not only ones buying PSLs.  They have been selling some to partners including ticket agencies.

And as we have read from @Mr Info some PSL purchasers are not NYS residents and are not taxpayers. 
 

Also, it’s not the most well-written or current article on the topic, but it is noteworthy that this construction project is benefitting the local job market and economy. Pegula isn’t the only one seeing benefits of the taxpayers’ “investment”. 
 

https://ublawsportsforum.com/2022/11/18/bills-stadium-project-labor-agreement-burden-or-benefit/amp/?fbclid=IwAR1-6aCTpcXY7ZIWFvnDpXYrcb2EkdKdDuJMxWOeRFRWd0YVkevmFiUZF4k_aem_ATbY3oelUT8FPLOSahB9uONzBhaKuEnCFL4StN6zgA_lyQWrIO9WASey-kknWGKD4z0

[The All-Pro-Knox Gallery]

Terry’s villain arc is almost complete

[plenzmd1]

16 hours ago, Just Jack said:

Syracuse University season tickets do not have a PSL, they have a "donation" to their 'Cuse Athletics Fund.  You want seasons, you have to make a donation.  

 

Syracuse Football Season Tickets

 

 

The amount you donate instead of seniority comes into play with their benefits.  Someone that does the minimum donation for years/decades, can lose out to someone that just got seasons and made a big donation.  

My first job out of college in 86 went to a Cuse BB game with a coworker and his dad. My first big time college sporting event. 10 rows up, mid court. I could not believe they were only $10 as printed on the ticket. That’s when I got an education on how tickets worked in college LOL. So been at least 40 years, prolly 100 it’s a pay to play system in college athletics! 

15 hours ago, Augie said:

 

  I’m still a Bills fan, but I’m caring less and less for the NFL every year. 

 

 

I mean this sincerely, we just getting old and getting tired of 50 years of disappointment. Last 3 years have been especially hard on the disappointment meter. In a sense , was easier during the drought years when a single victory brought joy into our lives lol. Hard now when only a Super Bowl means they met expectations. 

7 hours ago, Aimee75 said:

I am seeing a number of people saying that this could be an out for The Bills, that if the seats don't sell, there is probably a clause that could get them out of Buffalo. Thoughts on this?

 

It's exhausting constantly worrying about this. 

Don’t, that is pure BS. 

[nucci]

in conclusion, PSLs suck for the fans but the Bills will sell out the stadium regardless.

[SoMAn]

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but I’m not reading through 93 pages hoping to see the answer….

If a the PSL is purchased and financed over a 10 year period, and the buyer defaults, dies, changes their mind, etc.

Is that PSL re-sold at original cost or is it sold for the balance owed? 
If the PSL is paid in full, but the owner elects not to renew season tickets, what then? Does the PSL owner still retain ‘ownership’ of those seats but the Bills can sell tickets for them?  Can owners of PSLs sell them privately or do they have to go back to the Bills? 
TIA

Edited March 30 by SoMAn

[ExiledInIllinois]

Why can't they just charge PSLs to non-New York taxpayers?

[papazoid]

this is my current understanding. i have not met with the bills yet to confirm any of these answers

 

If a the PSL is purchased and financed over a 10 year period, and the buyer defaults, dies, changes their mind, etc.

(IF YOU FAIL TO PURCHASE TIX, YOU LOSE THE PSL. the bills can resell it. you must sell your PSL before deciding to stop buying tix)

 

Is that PSL re-sold at original cost or is it sold for the balance owed? 

( YOU LIST IT ON A SPECIFIC AFTER MARKET FOR PSL's TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER. could be higher, guessing likely lower)

If the PSL is paid in full, but the owner elects not to renew season tickets, what then?

(YOU FORFEIT THE PSL. best to sell the PSL before not renewing)

 

Does the PSL owner still retain ‘ownership’ of those seats but the Bills can sell tickets for them?   

(NO, ownership reverts back to bills. you of course can sell individual games on the NFL TICKETEXCHANGE....but expect a crackdown on selling most like that. see the letter the SABRES sent to season ticket holders who sell half or more. they must buy a NY state Broker license for about $5,000)

 

Can owners of PSLs sell them privately or do they have to go back to the Bills? 

(YOU SELL THEM PRIVATELY ON A PSL MARKET PLACE) guessing there will be a way to sell them directly to a friend or family member bypassing the PSL marketplace.

 

 

Edited March 30 by papazoid

[Kirby Jackson]

10 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Why can't they just charge PSLs to non-New York taxpayers?

Because that won’t raise the $200m that they’re looking for

[Just Jack]

2 hours ago, SoMAn said:

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but I’m not reading through 93 pages hoping to see the answer….

If a the PSL is purchased and financed over a 10 year period, and the buyer defaults, dies, changes their mind, etc.

If the PSL is paid in full, but the owner elects not to renew season tickets, what then? Does the PSL owner still retain ‘ownership’ of those seats but the Bills can sell tickets for them?  

 

The PSL owner loses their PSL and seats.  You need to keep buying seasons to keep your PSL.  

 

2 hours ago, SoMAn said:

Can owners of PSLs sell them privately or do they have to go back to the Bills? 

 

They can sell the PSL to someone else themselves.  Might not get what they paid for it though.  

NFL PSL Seat License Marketplace | Buy & Sell NFL Season Ticket Rights (pslsource.com)

[Punching Bag]

More  important will they act like the team called WTF will they try to sue people to continue payments?

 

I had a timeshare in Hawaii which threatened to take me to court / put on credit report when I stopped paying on it but it was a bluff.

[ProcessTruster]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Because that won’t raise the $200m that they’re looking for

the PSL and high tkt prices will have the lower bowl being 25-50% opposing team fans from the day the stadium opens, other than the division and warm weather games.   I've seen it in Baltimore, NYC and here in DC.   Gotta cover your costs somehow.   Folks are taking the $20-30k PSL and will resell games they are not interested in for as long as it takes to get their $ back.   I will be years.   

 

It is coming.   Elvis will be sitting right next to a guy with a Jets jersey on for f's sake.  

[Einstein]

11 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

How are the Bills gouging the taxpayers?  

Taxpayers have no obligation or need to purchase a PSL. It’s a voluntary choice to pay for entertainment.

I never said they were obligatory. You are falling into the same trap that Kirby did, moving the goalposts of the conversation.

 

I simply stated that they are not common in other business. It’s a racket that is found nearly exclusively in sports (and timeshares).

 

11 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

With regard to your item 2 above, I think it shows growth and maturity on your part to concur that PSLs are a fee, just as Ticketmaster charges a fee.  We are finding common ground.  

 

It is a fee - considering a fee is just a payment made in return for something - never said it wasn’t.

 

But it’s not the same as a ticket fee.

 

- PSL fees go to the originator (who also benefit from the ticket price AND the taxpayer money).

 

- Ticket fees go to a third party (unaffiliated with the originator) and that is the only revenue they collect. They do not receive the ticket price or the taxpayer money.

 

Two completely and fundamentally different items.

 

For any similar comparison to be made they must contain all three components: Taxpayer funded, taxpayer double dipped (PSL), then taxpayer purchases for tickets.

 

3 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Why can't they just charge PSLs to non-New York taxpayers?

 

They could. But that would remove a very large portion of the PSL money.

 

Why only single dip when you can double dip and get those taxpayers to pay for your stadium twice?

 

 

11 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

Your original Taco Bell example that started this whole discussion is not consistent with the reality of the Bills’ PSL and ticket process.  😆

 

Well, duh. That was the entire point. Did that really go over your head?

 

Edited March 30 by Einstein

[WotAGuy]

13 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I never said they were obligatory. You are falling into the same trap that Kirby did, moving the goalposts of the conversation.

 

I simply stated that they are not common in other business. It’s a racket that is found nearly exclusively in sports (and timeshares).

 

 

It is a fee - considering a fee is just a payment made in return for something - never said it wasn’t.

 

But it’s not the same as a ticket fee.

 

- PSL fees go to the originator (who also benefit from the ticket price AND the taxpayer money).

 

- Ticket fees go to a third party (unaffiliated with the originator) and that is the only revenue they collect. They do not receive the ticket price or the taxpayer money.

 

Two completely and fundamentally different items.

 

For any similar comparison to be made they must contain all three components: Taxpayer funded, taxpayer double dipped (PSL), then taxpayer purchases for tickets.

 

 

They could. But that would remove a very large portion of the PSL money.

 

Why only single dip when you can double dip and get those taxpayers to pay for your stadium twice?

 

 

 

Well, duh. That was the entire point. Did that really go over your head?

 

 

Weak. You’re running on fumes Einstein. I expected better from you. 

[Einstein]

Just now, WotAGuy said:

Weak. You’re running on fumes Einstein. I expected better from you. 

 

This is common in debate tactic. A final or semi-final dismissive phrase that lacks substance because the person can’t offer a meaningful rebuttal anymore.

 

When it’s pointed out, that person typically responds with something that straddles the lines of ad hominem, such as “I just can’t continue to get it through your thick head” or “Not much to say when you won’t understand”. It’s an attempt to dismiss the conversation by feigning intellectual exhaustion as they have no true counterpoint.

[RiotAct]

1 hour ago, Just Jack said:

 

The PSL owner loses their PSL and seats.  You need to keep buying seasons to keep your PSL.  

 

 

They can sell the PSL to someone else themselves.  Might not get what they paid for it though.  

NFL PSL Seat License Marketplace | Buy & Sell NFL Season Ticket Rights (pslsource.com)

LOL, half the stadium is available for the Jets.

[ProcessTruster]

55 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

LOL, half the stadium is available for the Jets.

Yeah it costs $400 for a crap ticket in Highmark.. I just go visit my daughter in NYC and pay $175 for a better seat in MetLife.   Half the stadium is Bills fans so its all good. 

 

The meaning of a "home game" will be diminishing league-wide in the next 5 - 10 years.   Roaming retirees following their team wherever they go + crazy PSLs/season tkt prices have largely watered down "home games" in 7 or 8 places already (Vegas, LA, NYC, DC, AZ, a few others). 

 

The only thing helping WNY is its not a travel destination so much plus it's freezing f ing cold for half the games.  

Edited March 30 by ProcessTruster

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

the PSL and high tkt prices will have the lower bowl being 25-50% opposing team fans from the day the stadium opens, other than the division and warm weather games.   I've seen it in Baltimore, NYC and here in DC.   Gotta cover your costs somehow.   Folks are taking the $20-30k PSL and will resell games they are not interested in for as long as it takes to get their $ back.   I will be years.   

 

It is coming.   Elvis will be sitting right next to a guy with a Jets jersey on for f's sake.  

That’s not happening here. Those PSLs will be like $5K or less in Buffalo. There will be no more opposing fans in the new stadium than there are currently. It’s just not the makeup of this place. It’ll be 90%+ Bills fans at all times (as it always has been).

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, RiotAct said:

LOL, half the stadium is available for the Jets.

 

The Jets situation is exactly what people who purchase PSL’s right now are going to, unfortunately be in in a few years.

 

PSL’s that are worth approximately half of what they paid and ever increasing season ticket costs.

 

You see, once you buy (especially in the more expensive sections), they know they have you. They can double season ticket prices and you’ll be stuck. It’s a sunk cost and most people will not be willing to give up on their $5k-$10k PSL’s, so they will feel justified to pay the ever increasing season ticket rate.

[QCity]

2 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

the PSL and high tkt prices will have the lower bowl being 25-50% opposing team fans from the day the stadium opens

 

There's not going to be 50% opposing team fans in the lower bowl.

 

I know tempers are high, but the Chicken Little acts are getting out of control.

[Jrb1979]

2 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

There's not going to be 50% opposing team fans in the lower bowl.

 

I know tempers are high, but the Chicken Little acts are getting out of control.

Maybe not 50% but there will be more visiting fans than at the current stadium. 

[DieHardFan]

2 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

the PSL and high tkt prices will have the lower bowl being 25-50% opposing team fans from the day the stadium opens, other than the division and warm weather games.   I've seen it in Baltimore, NYC and here in DC.   Gotta cover your costs somehow.   Folks are taking the $20-30k PSL and will resell games they are not interested in for as long as it takes to get their $ back.   I will be years.   

 

It is coming.   Elvis will be sitting right next to a guy with a Jets jersey on for f's sake.  

Don't know where you are sitting but that's the CURRENT situation in many sections. Moved to S135 R5 two years ago. I have 4, typically sell 2 -3. Every game I stand and ask who in attendance is a STH sitting in their seat. Never got a response (could be no one wants to respond to a crazy but never see a familiar face).

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

Just boycott buying seasons. Tax payers funding Billionaires hobbies is bs to begin with.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

15 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

There's not going to be 50% opposing team fans in the lower bowl.

 

I know tempers are high, but the Chicken Little acts are getting out of control.

Listening to people trying to explain what they think is going to happen is annoying. The doom and gloom is back. The lack of understanding from some, combined with the Bills not providing much info has the chicken littles back out. I’ll go on record that 90%+ of the lower bowl will be Bills fans. The PSLs will ALL be snatched up by the current base/waiting list.  

[WotAGuy]

20 minutes ago, DieHardFan said:

Don't know where you are sitting but that's the CURRENT situation in many sections. Moved to S135 R5 two years ago. I have 4, typically sell 2 -3. Every game I stand and ask who in attendance is a STH sitting in their seat. Never got a response (could be no one wants to respond to a crazy but never see a familiar face).

So….you usually sell most of your tickets and are wondering why there aren’t many STH around you?  Think about that for a minute and get back to us. 😝

52 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

The Jets situation is exactly what people who purchase PSL’s right now are going to, unfortunately be in in a few years.

 

PSL’s that are worth approximately half of what they paid and ever increasing season ticket costs.

 

You see, once you buy (especially in the more expensive sections), they know they have you. They can double season ticket prices and you’ll be stuck. It’s a sunk cost and most people will not be willing to give up on their $5k-$10k PSL’s, so they will feel justified to pay the ever increasing season ticket rate.

There is definitely a sunk cost, but people can bail on them if need be.  
 

But don’t PSLs also have diminishing returns?  They have a fixed lifespan, so as the years go by, wouldn’t you expect the value to decrease as their usable life decreases?  

 

Also, the fortunes of the team will probably play a big role in the market value of PSLs; if the team goes on a championship run, wouldn’t you expect the value to be affected positively by that?

[Mike in Horseheads]

35 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

Listening to people trying to explain what they think is going to happen is annoying. The doom and gloom is back. The lack of understanding from some, combined with the Bills not providing much info has the chicken littles back out. I’ll go on record that 90%+ of the lower bowl will be Bills fans. The PSLs will ALL be snatched up by the current base/waiting list.  

The doom and gloom never left Kirby

[mrags]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

The Jets situation is exactly what people who purchase PSL’s right now are going to, unfortunately be in in a few years.

 

PSL’s that are worth approximately half of what they paid and ever increasing season ticket costs.

 

You see, once you buy (especially in the more expensive sections), they know they have you. They can double season ticket prices and you’ll be stuck. It’s a sunk cost and most people will not be willing to give up on their $5k-$10k PSL’s, so they will feel justified to pay the ever increasing season ticket rate.

Now this is an argument that I have not seen anyone make and it might very well end up being the case in Buffalo. You won’t see their ticket prices double overnight (at least not after the new stadium is built) but you will likely see a 5-10% increase in ticket prices jist about every year to every other year. They love to do the 10% increase in a season when we have one less game at home. This way your prices generally don’t go up because your paying for one less game, then the next season when you aren’t even thinking about it they are higher than you expected.