BADOLBILZ Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 4 hours ago, Westside said: Until they start to suck again. Which will probably happen when Josh leaves. It’s a money grab. I don’t have a dog in this fight. I gave up my ST’s years ago when the drinking and tailgating got out of control. I really only watch the big games nowadays and wouldn’t really miss it if it went away. I believe this will signal the end of the bills in buffalo sooner rather than later. High ticket prices, rowdy drunk fans and the ever increasing costs for blue collar workers and as soon as the team starts to suck, away goes the people who are willing to pay for the exorbitant prices will stop paying. Greed ruins everything. How long were you a season ticket holder? Your perception might be that the drinking has gotten worse at Bills games but that's not been my perception. It's gotten almost clinical inside the stadium compared to the 1980's and 1990's. I think genetically we are just wired to become more irritable/sensitive to the behavior of others and stop caring as much about things we once did as we get older. It's a WHOLE LOT easier for me to skip a Bills game now than when I was in my 20's. It's an effort getting up and putting in those 12-14 hour days tailgating and it didn't used to be. 7 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, BillsPride12 said: Josh Allen won't be in his prime indefinitely. As soon as the Bills go back to sucking It's not going to be the rich folks selling out that stadium on a week to week basis. I'm still curious how this thing plays out in the long haul. The PSLs will all be sold before the new stadium opens. I don’t mean to come across as so dismissive but holy 🤬. This isn’t a scenario that “might” happen. The seats will be sold and the Bills will be here for a generation. If anyone wants to have a deeper discussion on it, I’m open for it. 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 What happens to the PSL after 30 years ? is it worth zero ? will they start a new PSL for renovations ? i know the PSL has a life limit of 30 years which lines up with the bills new stadium lease for 30 years. in an over simplification.....if you paid $30,000 for your PSL isnt it depreciating by $1,000 a year, so that after 20 years you go to sell it, there is only 10 years left on the PSL.....so might the approximate value be $10,000 for the remaining 10 years ? it's possible they appreciate, but i would think not in our market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Parody? If not, no the Bills aren’t going anywhere. This locks them in for a generation. They’ve never been more valuable than they are today. The NFL has never been hotter than right now. I’m 42 years-old and the Bills will be in WNY for my entire lifetime. “Selling fast” means that they are getting a high percentage of people saying “yes” not that the inventory is almost gone. This bodes well for those people hoping for lower PSLs. The higher the percentage of people that say “yes” at $20k or $50k, the better off it is for people that will be like $2k. You hope so. The penalty for breaking the lease agreement with the state is peanuts to what he can get moving the team, not selling it. If you don’t think he would do that I strongly disagree. If this team reverts back to the previous 30 years before Allen came on board these ridiculous prices would never work in buffalo. 27 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: How long were you a season ticket holder? Your perception might be that the drinking has gotten worse at Bills games but that's not been my perception. It's gotten almost clinical inside the stadium compared to the 1980's and 1990's. I think genetically we are just wired to become more irritable/sensitive to the behavior of others and stop caring as much about things we once did as we get older. It's a WHOLE LOT easier for me to skip a Bills game now than when I was in my 20's. It's an effort getting up and putting in those 12-14 hour days tailgating and it didn't used to be. I’ve been a season ticket holder for years before I gave them up. The ST holders next to my seats constantly sold them to the public which made my experience terrible. From drunken people and puking it was a terrible experience. Hence why I gave them up. To be honest I do not miss it one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 58 minutes ago, Westside said: You hope so. The penalty for breaking the lease agreement with the state is peanuts to what he can get moving the team, not selling it. If you don’t think he would do that I strongly disagree. I’m not speaking from “hope.” I’m speaking from experience working on a similar project. I’m not trying to be that guy but that’s not what’s happening here. Since before Pegula owned the team, I’ve laid out what would happen on this message board. I said things would happen a decade ago that are playing out just as I described. I know a little bit more on the topic than most others. This isn’t a “feeling” that I have. The Bills will be in WNY for AT LEAST 30 more years. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) If only there were 20 NFL stadiums built with PSLs in recent history that we could look to for empirical examples of how this works out??? SPOILERS: The seats were bought, the stadiums finished, and none of the teams moved to another city despite much suckitude on the field. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_seat_license#:~:text=A personal seat license%2C or,wish to purchase season tickets. Edited March 28 by Jauronimo 4 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griecoa10 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Has anyone seen the seating chart for the new stadium (not with PSL info) but just blank showing the section numbers? I swear I saw that in a thread over the weekend but can't find it when I search. Anyone willing to report or bump it for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 4 hours ago, Einstein said: Not many businesses exist where the fans (taxpayers) pay for the building and THEN get charged to enter the building and THEN get charged to buy the product. Imagine if YOU (the taxpayer) had to pay for new Taco Bell building. And THEN when the fancy new Taco Bell you paid for was all constructed, management made you pay to enter the building you just paid for. And THEN once youre in the building you paid to build, and paid to enter, you had to then pay for the actual tacos. Your analogy doesnt wash because 99% of businesses... this would be thought of as insane. Which it is. It is not even remotely close to passing the cost of doing business onto the customer. Unless Im WAY off, the purpose of the PSL is to finance the construction of the Stadium. And a sports team...last I checked...needs a stadium to play and in this day and age thats a lot more than brick steel, toilets, grass and some seats. Also, you act like sports teams are the only businesses that get tax breaks. Ever hear of IDAs? You also cant compare a fast food franchise to a sports team and how they operate and are financed. Come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 19 minutes ago, RkFast said: Unless Im WAY off, the purpose of the PSL is to finance the construction of the Stadium. And a sports team...last I checked...needs a stadium to play and in this day and age thats a lot more than brick steel, toilets, grass and some seats. Also, you act like sports teams are the only businesses that get tax breaks. Ever hear of IDAs? You also cant compare a fast food franchise to a sports team and how they operate and are financed. Come on. Tax break = / = paying for the stadium. The taxpayers are literally PAYING for the stadium. Then they're being charged to enter the stadium. Then being charged to sit in the seat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 4 hours ago, Einstein said: Not many businesses exist where the fans (taxpayers) pay for the building and THEN get charged to enter the building and THEN get charged to buy the product. Imagine if YOU (the taxpayer) had to pay for new Taco Bell building. And THEN when the fancy new Taco Bell you paid for was all constructed, management made you pay to enter the building you just paid for. And THEN once youre in the building you paid to build, and paid to enter, you had to then pay for the actual tacos. Your analogy doesnt wash because 99% of businesses... this would be thought of as insane. Which it is. It is not even remotely close to passing the cost of doing business onto the customer. That is pretty much the case with entertainment venues. A restaurant franchise operates differently than a sports entertainment franchise. It doesn't matter if 99% of businesses operate differently. I don't think you can call something insane when it's a very successful model. If I want to go to a football game, comedy show, concert, festival.....all the above is what people have to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrb1979 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 24 minutes ago, Einstein said: Tax break = / = paying for the stadium. The taxpayers are literally PAYING for the stadium. Then they're being charged to enter the stadium. Then being charged to sit in the seat. Everyone knew this was coming, so I don't understand the outrage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: The PSLs will all be sold before the new stadium opens. I don’t mean to come across as so dismissive but holy 🤬. This isn’t a scenario that “might” happen. The seats will be sold and the Bills will be here for a generation. If anyone wants to have a deeper discussion on it, I’m open for it. I'm not the one disputing the Bills are going to be moving anywhere, my post was a response to your comment saying it will be impossible to ever get single game tickets ever again once the new stadium opens. Even with PSL's...once the going gets tough the whine and cheese crowd won't give two S***'s about going to the games anymore and tickets will be on the resale market. Not sure what the pricing will be but it will not be impossible to ever get single game tickets to a Bills game in the new stadium. Sure maybe in the first few years as we are still riding the high on these glory years with Allen but there's no way that excitement will be sustained when the Bills fall off again. Look at how packed the Sabres arena is these days! I completely understand the business side to all of this. It is what it is but I am speaking from the perspective of a fan, it's just a shame this is where things are heading but it's unavoidable. I get your a business guy and see it from that perspective but your avatar pic is of Kirby Jackson for christ's sake lol. Surely you still must have some old school fandom in you deep down from the glory days that can understand why so many people hate this. These are just completely different times of being a Sports fan that we grew up in. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Just now, Jrb1979 said: Everyone knew this was coming, so I don't understand the outrage. First day on the internet? Welcome. You’ll find a wide selection of things to B word about. Take your pick, but hurry the ***** up. 10 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: That is pretty much the case with entertainment venues. A restaurant franchise operates differently than a sports entertainment franchise. It doesn't matter if 99% of businesses operate differently. I don't think you can call something insane when it's a very successful model. If I want to go to a football game, comedy show, concert, festival.....all the above is what people have to do. I swear someone else has taken over Einstein’s account after they posted their tax return. They used to be highly intelligent and rich. Now they sound like a deranged homeless person. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 2 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said: I'm not the one disputing the Bills are going to be moving anywhere, my post was a response to your comment saying it will be impossible to ever get single game tickets ever again once the new stadium opens. Even with PSL's...once the going gets tough the whine and cheese crowd won't give two S***'s about going to the games anymore and tickets will be on the resale market. Never understood this sentiment. Do you think because someone can afford better seats they are less of a fan? I know plenty of folks in the clubs, almost 80% drive over 3 hours to be at the games. I have good seats, about 25 yd line 22 rows up. I drive 8 hours each way for almost every home game. You think because someone can afford decent seats, that somehow makes them less of a fan? You know who gives up seats the fastest when the team gets bad? The folks in the cheaper seats They are the ones usually only in when the going is good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 8 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said: I'm not the one disputing the Bills are going to be moving anywhere, my post was a response to your comment saying it will be impossible to ever get single game tickets ever again once the new stadium opens. Even with PSL's...once the going gets tough the whine and cheese crowd won't give two S***'s about going to the games anymore and tickets will be on the resale market. Not sure what the pricing will be but it will not be impossible to ever get single game tickets to a Bills game in the new stadium. Sure maybe in the first few years as we are still riding the high on these glory years with Allen but there's no way that excitement will be sustained when the Bills fall off again. Look at how packed the Sabres arena is these days! I completely understand the business side to all of this. It is what it is but I am speaking from the perspective of a fan, it's just a shame this is where things are heading but it's unavoidable. I get your a business guy and see it from that perspective but your avatar pic is of Kirby Jackson for christ's sake lol. Surely you still must have some old school fandom in you deep down from the glory days that can understand why so many people hate this. These are just completely different times of being a Sports fan that we grew up in. Tickets are on the resale market for every team, in every league and every event in sports. Yes, there will be resale tickets available in the new stadium. There will also be tickets available on the resale market for the Super Bowl, Olympics, the Masters, the World Cup, the World Series, etc… Um, yes, I’d consider myself a fan. I’ve attended roughly 300 Bills games and seen them in 1/2 of the stadiums in the league. I followed them to London and would follow them to the moon if necessary. I’m not sure what my fandom has to do with this conversation? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 26 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Never understood this sentiment. Do you think because someone can afford better seats they are less of a fan? I know plenty of folks in the clubs, almost 80% drive over 3 hours to be at the games. I have good seats, about 25 yd line 22 rows up. I drive 8 hours each way for almost every home game. You think because someone can afford decent seats, that somehow makes them less of a fan? You know who gives up seats the fastest when the team gets bad? The folks in the cheaper seats They are the ones usually only in when the going is good. Dude, I am so f@#$ing sick of all these poors. They think they're soooooo much better than us because they have hard lives and a different perspective on stuff. Its like you're not a bigger Bills fan than me just because you use public transportation, hang out in methadone clinics, and shop at Tops. The sheer arrogance of these people blows my mind. Ya know, its not ALL caviar and champagne in my life. Sometimes we order regular sparkling. Try walking a mile in my Ferragamo's, street rat! Edited March 28 by Jauronimo 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 4 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Dude, I am so f@#$ing sick of all these poors. They think they're soooooo much better than us because they have hard lives and a different perspective on stuff. Its like you're not a bigger Bills fan than me just because you use public transportation, hang out in methadone clinics, and shop for expired meats at Tops. The sheer arrogance of these people blows my mind. Ya know, its not ALL caviar and champagne in my life. Sometimes we order regular sparkling. Try walking a mile in my Ferragamo's, street rat! great boiled down quote ( not exact) from Tom Robbins, Jitterbug Perfume The rich are the most discriminated against set of people across the world. Everyone just assumes because you are rich, you are an arsehole. Well let me tell you something, i indeed have met a lot of rich ####### in my life. But I have also met a whole ton of poor #######. When ya get down to it, the only real difference in the two is the rich can at least buy their own drinks!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 32 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Never understood this sentiment. Do you think because someone can afford better seats they are less of a fan? I know plenty of folks in the clubs, almost 80% drive over 3 hours to be at the games. I have good seats, about 25 yd line 22 rows up. I drive 8 hours each way for almost every home game. You think because someone can afford decent seats, that somehow makes them less of a fan? You know who gives up seats the fastest when the team gets bad? The folks in the cheaper seats They are the ones usually only in when the going is good. Obviously a little bit of a generalization on my part, of course every situation is different but from my experience of people I knew in real life it was definitely that type of fan that wanted nothing to do with going to the games during the drought years. That doesn't mean that there are not true fans who have club seats etc. so I didn't mean to offend you personally. I was speaking from a generalized point of view. I still think there's some truth to it but honestly I didn't mean to come across insulting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 14 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Dude, I am so f@#$ing sick of all these poors. They think they're soooooo much better than us because they have hard lives and a different perspective on stuff. Its like you're not a bigger Bills fan than me just because you use public transportation, hang out in methadone clinics, and shop at Tops. The sheer arrogance of these people blows my mind. Ya know, its not ALL caviar and champagne in my life. Sometimes we order regular sparkling. Try walking a mile in my Ferragamo's, street rat! It was all fun and games until you said “shop at Tops”. Don’t judge me and my coupons you *****. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: That is pretty much the case with entertainment venues. By entertainment venues do you mean *only* football (or soccer in Europe)? Because I cant think of any other entertainment venue where you pay for the building, then pay to enter the building, then pay to sit in the seat. - You dont do that at concerts (unless its at a FOOTBALL stadium). - You dont do that at comedy shows (no PSL, and taxpayers didnt pay for the venue). - You dont do that at magician acts (no PSL, and taxpayers didnt pay for the venue). - You dont do that at medieval times (no PSL, and taxpayers didnt pay for the venue). - You don't do that at festivals (taxpayers *might* have paid for the venue, but no PSL). It's only football (or soccer). Quote I don't think you can call something insane when it's a very successful model. What is successful about it? Do you mean that a few billionaire owners are successful at taking money? Edited March 28 by Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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