PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[mrags]

22 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said:

I'm curious as to how many people talking about PSLs have or ever had season tickets compared to people that buy single game tickets again compared to those who don't ever attend and watch on TV.

Just wondering....

And that's not meant to be a shot at anyone,  just trying to see the perspectives from each group.

I’d bet money that many of the people that are complaining don’t even have season tix and buy in secondary markets. 

[Tenhigh]

6 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

To add onto the fine answer from @Mr Info you won’t be able to sell a PSL back to the Bills. They will reacquire and resell PSLs that are defaulted on, but they won’t be buying them back from holders. 

That seems wild that they won't buy them back from you.  I guess if you sell in a good year you can get your money back...

[RiotAct]

1 hour ago, Tenhigh said:

That seems wild that they won't buy them back from you.  I guess if you sell in a good year you can get your money back...

does it, though?

[Jukester]

https://wyrk.com/mark-poloncarz-issues-statement-about-buffalo-bills-high-psls/

 

The County Executive expressed his disappointment to the Bills and Legends representatives last week during a tour of the new Stadium Experience, regarding their failure to publicly release the PSL prices. For the record, the county has not been provided any prices/costs regarding the PSLs because we are not a party to the PSL agreement, as the county is out of the football business once the new stadium opens up. We are discussing the matter with the state at this time.

Edited March 28 by Jukester

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So what’s the solution? The Bills are a business. Should they not get what the market will support? Should there be a designated number of “rent controlled” seats like NY apartments? If so, what’s the number? What’s the appropriate way to handle the situation other than pricing the stadium to have supply and demand intersect?

 

 

 

If the Bills didn't get a new stadium the team was going to leave town in the near future.   The league is a partnership and they won't let one partner not comply.   And if they got a new stadium it was going to be very expensive for fans to attend.    This was always the outcome if we wanted the team to stay.

 

My group owns a lot of tickets and one of the guys is in AA and he brings people to the game who are recovering from substance abuse that has destroyed their lives. Some of them could never even otherwise afford to attend a Bills game.    There are considerably more Bills fans in relatively close proximity to the stadium in this boat than there are season ticket holders.   How many of the fans that are heated about these PSL's think about how unfortunate it is that REALLY broke die-hard Bills fans can't go to games and get good seats etc.. right now?    It's all relative.   They've gotten to go because they could pay.   And it's not like the demographic hasn't been skewing gradually wealthier at Bills games for decades.   It has.

 

 The stadium is getting smaller as the fan base expands and the venue becomes more attractive to the wealthy and businesses that can write it off.       

[mrags]

3 minutes ago, Jukester said:

https://wyrk.com/mark-poloncarz-issues-statement-about-buffalo-bills-high-psls/

 

The County Executive expressed his disappointment to the Bills and Legends representatives last week during a tour of the new Stadium Experience, regarding their failure to publicly release the PSL prices. For the record, the county has not been provided any prices/costs regarding the PSLs because we are not a party to the PSL agreement, as the county is out of the football business once the new stadium opens up. We are discussing the matter with the state at this time.

Poloncarz is a piece of trash. He’s only commenting and expressing his disapproval in public to make him look concerned and for voter backing. 

[RiotAct]

21 minutes ago, Jukester said:

https://wyrk.com/mark-poloncarz-issues-statement-about-buffalo-bills-high-psls/

 

The County Executive expressed his disappointment to the Bills and Legends representatives last week during a tour of the new Stadium Experience, regarding their failure to publicly release the PSL prices. For the record, the county has not been provided any prices/costs regarding the PSLs because we are not a party to the PSL agreement, as the county is out of the football business once the new stadium opens up. We are discussing the matter with the state at this time.

lulz 

[Mango]

4 hours ago, Jukester said:

https://wyrk.com/mark-poloncarz-issues-statement-about-buffalo-bills-high-psls/

 

The County Executive expressed his disappointment to the Bills and Legends representatives last week during a tour of the new Stadium Experience, regarding their failure to publicly release the PSL prices. For the record, the county has not been provided any prices/costs regarding the PSLs because we are not a party to the PSL agreement, as the county is out of the football business once the new stadium opens up. We are discussing the matter with the state at this time.

Pegulas leash with Buffalo fans is shortening.

 

I’m on another hockey forum in addition to Sabrespace that’s generally pretty dry and straightforward hockey talk by comparison. It is becoming highly volatile and very anti-Pegula.

 

He needs the Bills in the SB and he needs them there soon. Otherwise I think the city is ready to flip on him entirely. 

 

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

Pegulas leash with Buffalo fans is shortening.

 

I’m on another hockey forum in addition to Sabrespace that’s generally pretty dry and straightforward hockey talk by comparison. It is becoming highly volatile and very anti-Pegula.

 

He needs the Bills in the SB and he needs them there soon. Otherwise I think the city is ready to flip on him entirely. 

 

 

Another ouster in the divisional round will probably push that rock over the edge.  

 

I obviously can't speak for anyone else but  myself, but simply beating the hapless Jets, Pats, & Fins, which is expected, winning the division and "making the playoffs" and never being able to beat anything but sorry QBs and wild-card teams there, with Allen as our QB just ain't cutting it anymore.

 

 

[PBF81]

7 hours ago, mrags said:

Poloncarz is a piece of trash. He’s only commenting and expressing his disapproval in public to make him look concerned and for voter backing. 

 

Possibly, but it's not a good look either way.  

 

I think I'm pretty objective in this.  I've had STs in the past, understand the business aspects of it, but also realize that no other businesses in the region get their business expenses paid by the public anywhere near that scale. 

 

When the owner of that business is a multi-billionaire it says much.  Then little things, like the "Pegula Family Values" slide, with zero concern for anyone else's family values that buy the product, and then buying a yacht in the middle of negotiations claiming that you don't have the money for a stadium while simultaneously callously proclaiming that you have a lifestyle to maintain implying that can afford and need a yacht but can't afford your own stadium aka "business expenses." 

 

Right now the ill will seems to be streaming from this secretive approach to releasing the prices.  Fine, do the priority thing, but at least release the prices to let people know what the options are.

 

As it stands there is going to be a whole lot of "if I had known I'd have bought ... (other seats)" down the road that will further cause issues and additional ill will.  It's a bad and less than honest approach.  

 

Just my two cents as someone who's been disgusted with ML sports Tix ever since Ticketmaster and the others have been given preferential treatment by the leagues and governments.

 

Just my two cents.  I don't really care as none of it applies to me since I wouldn't pay for a PSL on principle and haven't had STs in years and am happy buying secondary as I do now, for maybe one live game per season carefully selected, and otherwise perfectly happy to watch in a Bills Backers bar or even at home.  

 

 

[mrags]

5 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Possibly, but it's not a good look either way.  

 

I think I'm pretty objective in this.  I've had STs in the past, understand the business aspects of it, but also realize that no other businesses in the region get their business expenses paid by the public anywhere near that scale. 

 

When the owner of that business is a multi-billionaire it says much.  Then little things, like the "Pegula Family Values" slide, with zero concern for anyone else's family values that buy the product, and then buying a yacht in the middle of negotiations claiming that you don't have the money for a stadium while simultaneously callously proclaiming that you have a lifestyle to maintain implying that can afford and need a yacht but can't afford your own stadium aka "business expenses." 

 

Right now the ill will seems to be streaming from this secretive approach to releasing the prices.  Fine, do the priority thing, but at least release the prices to let people know what the options are.

 

As it stands there is going to be a whole lot of "if I had known I'd have bought ... (other seats)" down the road that will further cause issues and additional ill will.  It's a bad and less than honest approach.  

 

Just my two cents as someone who's been disgusted with ML sports Tix ever since Ticketmaster and the others have been given preferential treatment by the leagues and governments.

 

Just my two cents.  I don't really care as none of it applies to me since I wouldn't pay for a PSL on principle and haven't had STs in years and am happy buying secondary as I do now, for maybe one live game per season carefully selected, and otherwise perfectly happy to watch in a Bills Backers bar or even at home.  

 

 

I agree with your objections. And of the way it’s being handled. I think it’s terrible how it’s being rolled out. But let’s remember this. 
 

I don’t think the Pegulas care what look it shows. They are Billionaires and it’s all about money for them. That’s pretty obvious. 
 

I’m quite positive the secretive approach is being rolled out for a reason.  Theres reasons why you say why can’t they just tell us ahead what all the prices are. Because then you can’t scare STHs into buying those seats in fear of losing out in their tix. They also get the ability to wait and see how things sell and adjust the PSL and ticket prices based on how things are currently selling. If they are selling out they can continue to charge higher rates in the next section that gets released. Everyone wants to joke about it, but @SoCal Deek was on the money when he said it feels like a timeshare meeting. It 100% has that feeling. Regardless in person while at the experience how they treat you, the structure of starting at your highest rates and then systematically lowering just a little bit at a time to see what they can squeeze out of each target group at a time. 
 

Legends are professionals in this business. They know exactly what they are doing. And Pegula I guarantee signed off on it. Notice he’s nowhere to be found in all the complaints and issues with this whole thing is being rolled out. Matter of fact he is never involved with any negativity about the team. It’s because he doesn’t give a crap. All he cares about is sucking more dollars out of everyone. 
 

 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

8 hours ago, Jukester said:

https://wyrk.com/mark-poloncarz-issues-statement-about-buffalo-bills-high-psls/

 

The County Executive expressed his disappointment to the Bills and Legends representatives last week during a tour of the new Stadium Experience, regarding their failure to publicly release the PSL prices. For the record, the county has not been provided any prices/costs regarding the PSLs because we are not a party to the PSL agreement, as the county is out of the football business once the new stadium opens up. We are discussing the matter with the state at this time.

This clown couldn’t pat himself on the back enough, like he was the reason a new stadium is being built. STFU and fix some roads. 

[Westside]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

If the Bills didn't get a new stadium the team was going to leave town in the near future.   The league is a partnership and they won't let one partner not comply.   And if they got a new stadium it was going to be very expensive for fans to attend.    This was always the outcome if we wanted the team to stay.

 

My group owns a lot of tickets and one of the guys is in AA and he brings people to the game who are recovering from substance abuse that has destroyed their lives. Some of them could never even otherwise afford to attend a Bills game.    There are considerably more Bills fans in relatively close proximity to the stadium in this boat than there are season ticket holders.   How many of the fans that are heated about these PSL's think about how unfortunate it is that REALLY broke die-hard Bills fans can't go to games and get good seats etc.. right now?    It's all relative.   They've gotten to go because they could pay.   And it's not like the demographic hasn't been skewing gradually wealthier at Bills games for decades.   It has.

 

 The stadium is getting smaller as the fan base expands and the venue becomes more attractive to the wealthy and businesses that can write it off.       

Until they start to suck again. Which will probably happen when Josh leaves. It’s a money grab. I don’t have a dog in this fight. I gave up my ST’s years ago when the drinking and tailgating got out of control. 
I really only watch the big games nowadays and wouldn’t really miss it if it went away. 
I believe this will signal the end of the bills in buffalo sooner rather than later. High ticket prices, rowdy drunk fans and the ever increasing costs for blue collar workers and as soon as the team starts to suck, away goes the people who are willing to pay for the exorbitant prices will stop paying. 
Greed ruins everything. 

[plenzmd1]

12 minutes ago, mrags said:

I agree with your objections. And of the way it’s being handled. I think it’s terrible how it’s being rolled out. But let’s remember this. 
 

I don’t think the Pegulas care what look it shows. They are Billionaires and it’s all about money for them. That’s pretty obvious. 
 

I’m quite positive the secretive approach is being rolled out for a reason.  Theres reasons why you say why can’t they just tell us ahead what all the prices are. Because then you can’t scare STHs into buying those seats in fear of losing out in their tix. They also get the ability to wait and see how things sell and adjust the PSL and ticket prices based on how things are currently selling. If they are selling out they can continue to charge higher rates in the next section that gets released. Everyone wants to joke about it, but @SoCal Deek was on the money when he said it feels like a timeshare meeting. It 100% has that feeling. Regardless in person while at the experience how they treat you, the structure of starting at your highest rates and then systematically lowering just a little bit at a time to see what they can squeeze out of each target group at a time. 
 

Legends are professionals in this business. They know exactly what they are doing. And Pegula I guarantee signed off on it. Notice he’s nowhere to be found in all the complaints and issues with this whole thing is being rolled out. Matter of fact he is never involved with any negativity about the team. It’s because he doesn’t give a crap. All he cares about is sucking more dollars out of everyone. 
 

 

Legends are pros, no doubt. So, everyone loves getting a deal. Go into a room and ask " raise your hand if you got a good deal last time you bought a car"...every single stinkin hand will go up. And that's why all the car dealers are broke ya know.

 

Right now... STH holder in row 18, section 337... all up in arms now saying " I ain't paying $20K PSL, hell no"

 

When the PSL price  comes out and its $1500...they gunna be like" that's not $20K, i am getting a much better deal, i am in" 

 

they got a deal!

[PBF81]

25 minutes ago, mrags said:

I agree with your objections. And of the way it’s being handled. I think it’s terrible how it’s being rolled out. But let’s remember this. 
 

I don’t think the Pegulas care what look it shows. They are Billionaires and it’s all about money for them. That’s pretty obvious. 
 

I’m quite positive the secretive approach is being rolled out for a reason.  Theres reasons why you say why can’t they just tell us ahead what all the prices are. Because then you can’t scare STHs into buying those seats in fear of losing out in their tix. They also get the ability to wait and see how things sell and adjust the PSL and ticket prices based on how things are currently selling. If they are selling out they can continue to charge higher rates in the next section that gets released. Everyone wants to joke about it, but @SoCal Deek was on the money when he said it feels like a timeshare meeting. It 100% has that feeling. Regardless in person while at the experience how they treat you, the structure of starting at your highest rates and then systematically lowering just a little bit at a time to see what they can squeeze out of each target group at a time. 
 

Legends are professionals in this business. They know exactly what they are doing. And Pegula I guarantee signed off on it. Notice he’s nowhere to be found in all the complaints and issues with this whole thing is being rolled out. Matter of fact he is never involved with any negativity about the team. It’s because he doesn’t give a crap. All he cares about is sucking more dollars out of everyone. 
 

 

 

Agree with all of that.  

 

But keep in mind that on our market it could backfire.  That appears to be what we're looking at here.

 

The other thing that does not go unnoticed, whether people articulate it or not, is the blatant dishonesty.

 

An article went up yesterday or the day before, with quotes from Legends starting that fewer than 1% of STHs have gone through.  That's a few hundred people.  

 

Yet, several different posters here have started that their reps have told them that whatever they're now selling are selling fast.  I suppose that's possible, but given the talk everywhere and people already bowling out, it's also highly unlikely.

 

Things like that song go unnoticed.  

 

Buffalo's a horse of a different color and needs to be managed as such.  

 

 

[Westside]

9 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Legends are pros, no doubt. So, everyone loves getting a deal. Go into a room and ask " raise your hand if you got a good deal last time you bought a car"...every single stinkin hand will go up. And that's why all the car dealers are broke ya know.

 

Right now... STH holder in row 18, section 337... all up in arms now saying " I ain't paying $20K PSL, hell no"

 

When the PSL price  comes out and its $1500...they gunna be like" that's not $20K, i am getting a much better deal, i am in" 

 

they got a deal!

But that doesn’t include the ST’s which will probably double. I personally don’t care what they charge, because, even though I can, I refuse to be held hostage by greedy billionaires.

I’m not condemning anyone willing to pay that exorbitant price, GOD bless them. I really hope they enjoy the experience. I, being a retired person would much rather have my winter home in Florida. 😊👍🏻😊👍🏻😊👍🏻❤️

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Agree with all of that.  

 

But keep in mind that on our market it could backfire.  That appears to be what we're looking at here.

 

The other thing that does not go unnoticed, whether people articulate it or not, is the blatant dishonesty.

 

An article went up yesterday or the day before, with quotes from Legends starting that fewer than 1% of STHs have gone through.  That's a few hundred people.  

 

Yet, several different posters here have started that their reps have told them that whatever they're now selling are selling fast.  I suppose that's possible, but given the talk everywhere and people already bowling out, it's also highly unlikely.

 

Things like that song go unnoticed.  

 

Buffalo's a horse of a different color and needs to be managed as such.  

 

 

I agree. This is Buffalo we’re talking about, not NYC. Which didn’t seem to work out there. This doesn’t bode well for keeping the team in Buffalo after Josh retires. 

[PBF81]

9 minutes ago, Westside said:

But that doesn’t include the ST’s which will probably double. I personally don’t care what they charge, because, even though I can, I refuse to be held hostage by greedy billionaires.

I’m not condemning anyone willing to pay that exorbitant price, GOD bless them. I really hope they enjoy the experience. I, being a retired person would much rather have my winter home in Florida. 😊👍🏻😊👍🏻😊👍🏻❤️

I agree. This is Buffalo we’re talking about, not NYC. Which didn’t seem to work out there. This doesn’t bode well for keeping the team in Buffalo after Josh retires. 

 

Agree.  And contrary to the dumb narrative that claims that they can't leave for 15/20 years, the cost for Pegula to move is $850M.  Which fool(s) really think that's anywhere near enough to prevent a team from moving to where it's worth would double or ever triple with the move.

 

 

Also, Allen strikes me as someone that's well rooted and wouldn't risk his health after several more years and would retire while he can still walk normally and play golf around the world every day.  I don't see him wanting more and more money in exchange for his health.

 

Given the way that they use him I don't see him playing much longer that his current contract.  Then factor in his relationship with Steinfeld too. 

 

  

Edited March 28 by PBF81

[mrags]

14 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Agree with all of that.  

 

But keep in mind that on our market it could backfire.  That appears to be what we're looking at here.

 

The other thing that does not go unnoticed, whether people articulate it or not, is the blatant dishonesty.

 

An article went up yesterday or the day before, with quotes from Legends starting that fewer than 1% of STHs have gone through.  That's a few hundred people.  

 

Yet, several different posters here have started that their reps have told them that whatever they're now selling are selling fast.  I suppose that's possible, but given the talk everywhere and people already bowling out, it's also highly unlikely.

 

Things like that song go unnoticed.  

 

Buffalo's a horse of a different color and needs to be managed as such.  

 

 

I am pretty sure they think that it’s not a special situation being Buffalo. They are an NFL team after all. It’s about money and they will get it and won’t care how. If they don’t get people buying the PSLs, they will just raise the price of season tickets to make up for it. But mark my words, the stadium will be sold out by STHs before the first season. 
 

as far as the amount of people that have went through the experience. A few hundred is probably correct. They’ve only been doing this for 1-2 weeks now. It’s likely in a one on one or small group basis. They’ve said it takes 90 minutes right? They are only open so many hours a day. There’s only so many people that can go through at once. They can absolutely be serious when saying that a large % of seats are being claimed but only gone through a few hundred or maybe into the 1,000s by now. 

[Mr Info]

40 minutes ago, mrags said:

Everyone wants to joke about it, but @SoCal Deek was on the money when he said it feels like a timeshare meeting. It 100% has that feeling. Regardless in person while at the experience how they treat you, the structure of starting at your highest rates and then systematically lowering just a little bit at a time to see what they can squeeze out of each target group at a time. 

 

Quoted where I disagree based on my Experience meeting.

I have been to timeshare meetings and never felt pressured at the Bills Experience. I walked out without signing anything when my appt ended. My rep sent me the details I requested within a couple of days. 
Actually, I wish I had signed while I was there because equivalent seats to my present club seat location were unavailable when I called back a few days later to obtain club seats.

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, mrags said:

I am pretty sure they think that it’s not a special situation being Buffalo. They are an NFL team after all. It’s about money and they will get it and won’t care how. If they don’t get people buying the PSLs, they will just raise the price of season tickets to make up for it. But mark my words, the stadium will be sold out by STHs before the first season. 
 

as far as the amount of people that have went through the experience. A few hundred is probably correct. They’ve only been doing this for 1-2 weeks now. It’s likely in a one on one or small group basis. They’ve said it takes 90 minutes right? They are only open so many hours a day. There’s only so many people that can go through at once. They can absolutely be serious when saying that a large % of seats are being claimed but only gone through a few hundred or maybe into the 1,000s by now. 

 

Well find out within the year.

 

It's certainly an interesting process to observe.