Kirby Jackson Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 2 minutes ago, Einstein said: You should be asking yourself that question. Dont move the goalposts. No-one said there aren’t any entertainment venues built by taxpayers. The question was non-sports entertainment venues that were: 1) Built by taxpayers. 2) AND Have PSL’s. 3) AND You must purchase tickets on top of the PSL or lose it. All three must apply for comparison. I would have assumed you would be able to find at least a few outliers among the 20,000+ in existence. But that really goes to show how it’s NOT the norm. Only in sports. No. Ticket fees = / = PSL’s. PSL’s originate from the organization producing the product (Buffalo Bills, for example). Ticket fees originate from a completely separate entity that uses stub fees as their business model and does not benefit the originating organization. To say that ticket fees are PSL’s is to say that restaurant who put a “kitchen fee” on your tab are charging PSL’s for your food. It’s stupid. It also makes no sense considering that the Bills have announced that they will only be using online brokers (like Ticketmaster) going forward, so it would be a double PSL - ticket fee and *actual* PSL. Its all around a really poor argument on your part. Lol, somebody come get your son. I can’t do this any longer… 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 5 hours ago, BillsPride12 said: It's all good, I don't disagree with you there and respect your fandom. I still have a hard time picturing the stadium full to capacity indefinitely going forward if the Bills encounter some more lean years again(not talking about ticket sales, just butts in seats). The Bills knew very on in the process that even in the worse years you'd still fill out a 63k capacity stadium for almost all the games. It's one of the main reasons it's not 72k like we have now. That and more room for luxury boxes. The outdoor stadium decision still baffles me though. This has pry been covered before but how hard would it be to eventually put a roof on it? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 4 minutes ago, Einstein said: Good idea on your part. Bruh, I promise that you don’t want to do this. 😂😂😂 There are a bazillion venues that are owned by the public. That’s the tax money part. They all charge for tickets to events. You putting that on the list is hilarious. Like, “oh yeah, which of these venues CHAAARRRRRRGES for their tickets, smart guy?” You’re hung up on the PSL part. It’s okay that you don’t understand how it works. It’s a fee, PAID BY THOSE PLANNING TO CONSUME THE PRODUCT, for the right to purchase tickets, to offset some of the costs, that the private party incurs. So to be clear, you’re upset that THE PEOPLE CONSUMING THE PRODUCT are paying a fee for the right to buy a ticket to consume that product? Don’t you pay a fee on every single ticket that you buy? Isn’t that fee the right to buy a ticket? Lastly, why are you mad that those people that elect to buy tickets are charged a PSL? Shouldn’t you be more angry that tax money from people that may not care is being used to build this place? That feels like the cloud that you should be yelling at. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 33 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: This is not necessarily true. I had PSLs at a stadium in another city and only had the rights to the seats for football. The Pegulas can make other events part of the PSL package - or not. It is 100% up to them. Functionally it doesn’t make much sense to tie PSL holders to their seats anyway. One issue is that some seats won’t even be used for concerts as they’d be behind the stage. Also additional seats would be added for an event like that and other seats would be in much better or worse locations than for football. It’s easier to just allow PSL owners to buy the seats they want before the general public. Well. In the Pegulas case it is true. I’m currently have clubs. I currently pay for a PSL. And I currently receive options to buy tickets to concerts prior to the general public. And yes you are correct, you don’t necessarily keep your seats in the clubs for events. You just have the option to purchase seats before anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Bruh, I promise that you don’t want to do this. 😂😂😂 Ok, guess you weren’t done. Let’s see how many more emojis and memes I can squeeze out of you. 15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: You’re hung up on the PSL part. It’s okay that you don’t understand how it works. It’s a fee, PAID BY THOSE PLANNING TO CONSUME THE PRODUCT, for the right to purchase tickets, to offset some of the costs, that the private party incurs. So to be clear, you’re upset that THE PEOPLE CONSUMING THE PRODUCT are paying a fee for the right to buy a ticket to consume that product? Don’t you pay a fee on every single ticket that you buy? Isn’t that fee the right to buy a ticket? You have a clear misunderstanding of my feelings in this debate and of the debate itself. In fact, you have misunderstood much of this conversation because you didn’t understand the context of the post you were replying to when you entered the conversation. I fully understand how PSL’s work and I agree that people have the right to purchase them. That is not the debate here. The debate here is whether PSL’s are the “norm” in entertainment. They are not. Which is why you can’t list the theatres, concerts, magician acts, etc that require them, in addition to being taxpayer funded. They are the norm in sports, most pressingly football and soccer (europe), but they are not the norm in entertainment. Or business. Which is what this conversation that you entered without understanding the context was about. If people want to purchase PSL’s, great. Go for it. But that’s not the conversation. I also yell at the taxpayer funded cloud too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: The Bills knew very on in the process that even in the worse years you'd still fill out a 63k capacity stadium for almost all the games. It's one of the main reasons it's not 72k like we have now. That and more room for luxury boxes. The outdoor stadium decision still baffles me though. This has pry been covered before but how hard would it be to eventually put a roof on it? I know it was brought up long ago, and I think @SoCal Deek will correct me if I'm wrong, but my opinion was that if they were smart they would add structure now just in case they decide to add a roof later. SoCal, I think, had a reason why they would not do that now, but I can't remember what it was. Edited March 29 by Just Jack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Lol, somebody come get your son. I can’t do this any longer… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Bruh, I promise that you don’t want to do this. 😂😂😂 There are a bazillion venues that are owned by the public. That’s the tax money part. They all charge for tickets to events. You putting that on the list is hilarious. Like, “oh yeah, which of these venues CHAAARRRRRRGES for their tickets, smart guy?” You’re hung up on the PSL part. It’s okay that you don’t understand how it works. It’s a fee, PAID BY THOSE PLANNING TO CONSUME THE PRODUCT, for the right to purchase tickets, to offset some of the costs, that the private party incurs. So to be clear, you’re upset that THE PEOPLE CONSUMING THE PRODUCT are paying a fee for the right to buy a ticket to consume that product? Don’t you pay a fee on every single ticket that you buy? Isn’t that fee the right to buy a ticket? Lastly, why are you mad that those people that elect to buy tickets are charged a PSL? Shouldn’t you be more angry that tax money from people that may not care is being used to build this place? That feels like the cloud that you should be yelling at. I got into an argument with someone on the FB group yesterday. (God I hope you’re here, because you're an idiot) he was complaining at first that he would be priced out of seats. I asked what section he sits in and he complained that had nothing to do with it. So I probed a little more. He wouldn’t tell me his seats. Then all the sudden he goes on a rant about how the stadium is being built mostly with tax payer money and we shouldn’t have to pay PSLs. He still wouldn’t tell me what section he was in. So I did a little Facebook stalking. And this kid didn’t even live here. He had no base whatsoever to complain about tax payer dollars. And I know plenty of people that travel quite a ways to come to games. But I doubt this kid was coming from Colorado every other weekend during the season to come to games. Which tells me he did not have season tickets, because if he’s got money to travel from Colorado 8 times a year he’s not worried about being priced out of games. He’s just butthurt that for the game or 2 a year that he comes to, he’s going to have to pay for even higher secondary prices. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrb1979 Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 3 hours ago, QCity said: Where are you getting this information? It's was on the Fans of Buffalo Facebook page. Here is the post. Controversy in Orchard Park! Pricing for the new stadium to be built is starting to leak out of the public. Seat licensing PER SEAT may cost you upwards of $20,000-$50,000. Don’t forget to have to purchase the actual game tickets which are increasing by at least 30%-45%. The Bills are certainly flexing their muscles as the biggest show in town but unfortunately to the dismay of Bills Mafia season ticket holders from what we’ve seen! What are your thoughts on these numbers Buffalo? Edit: These prices are for season ticket holders who are currently located in the Pepsi Club at Highmark. Upper and Lower Level PSL pricing has not been released yet but we are hearing anywhere from $6K-$15K per PSL! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 2 hours ago, BarleyNY said: This is not necessarily true. I had PSLs at a stadium in another city and only had the rights to the seats for football. The Pegulas can make other events part of the PSL package - or not. It is 100% up to them. Functionally it doesn’t make much sense to tie PSL holders to their seats anyway. One issue is that some seats won’t even be used for concerts as they’d be behind the stage. Also additional seats would be added for an event like that and other seats would be in much better or worse locations than for football. It’s easier to just allow PSL owners to buy the seats they want before the general public. Chargers and Rams share a stadium. PSLs for Chargers are not applicable to Rams games and vise versa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 2 hours ago, Doc Brown said: The Bills knew very on in the process that even in the worse years you'd still fill out a 63k capacity stadium for almost all the games. It's one of the main reasons it's not 72k like we have now. That and more room for luxury boxes. The outdoor stadium decision still baffles me though. This has pry been covered before but how hard would it be to eventually put a roof on it? Remember when Rich was 80,002. 49 minutes ago, Punching Bag said: Chargers and Rams share a stadium. PSLs for Chargers are not applicable to Rams games and vise versa. One of the two stadium money makers, true cash cowd in League along with MetLife in New Jersey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 1 hour ago, Punching Bag said: Chargers and Rams share a stadium. PSLs for Chargers are not applicable to Rams games and vise versa. What a scam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 On 3/24/2024 at 7:31 AM, stuvian said: Greed and gambling will eventually be this and other league's undoing. The Ohtani story is going to blow up in ways we haven't foreseen. Why would a working family prioritize a PSL over their kids education when the UFL offers something similar? You also have the NILs, while it wasn’t right for schools to solely benefit from players, ruining college sports. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) 9 hours ago, Einstein said: Ok, guess you weren’t done. Let’s see how many more emojis and memes I can squeeze out of you. You have a clear misunderstanding of my feelings in this debate and of the debate itself. In fact, you have misunderstood much of this conversation because you didn’t understand the context of the post you were replying to when you entered the conversation. I fully understand how PSL’s work and I agree that people have the right to purchase them. That is not the debate here. The debate here is whether PSL’s are the “norm” in entertainment. They are not. Which is why you can’t list the theatres, concerts, magician acts, etc that require them, in addition to being taxpayer funded. They are the norm in sports, most pressingly football and soccer (europe), but they are not the norm in entertainment. Or business. Which is what this conversation that you entered without understanding the context was about. If people want to purchase PSL’s, great. Go for it. But that’s not the conversation. I also yell at the taxpayer funded cloud too. I understood the PSL argument from the start. The part that I’m hung up on is why are you trying so hard to differentiate a PSL from any other ticketing fee that you pay as a “right to buy the ticket?” That’s obviously way more common when you’re talking about standalone events like a concert or show. You’re paying someone for the right to buy that seat. It’s the same thing. It just lines someone’s pockets as opposed to funding a portion of stadiums (although sometimes it does fund a portion of the stadium). I guess the other part that I’m hung up on is, “why do you have an issue with PSLs when the people using the product are the one’s electing to purchase?” I have 2 club seats and plan to continue in a similar capacity. It is my choice whether or not to continue. Do I want to pay a crazy amount for the right to buy two seats? Of course not!! I understand though, if I’m going to be using the stadium, it’s reasonable to expect me to contribute more than someone not using it. I get that you don’t want to pay your PSL. None of us do. There will be PSLs that are probably as low as $1000. If someone can’t afford that, with 10 years to finance, they probably shouldn’t be buying season tickets. That’s $10 a month(ish). Fortunately, we all have the choice to pay it or not. If we want to keep our tickets, that’s what it’s costs now. Edited March 29 by Kirby Jackson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 5 hours ago, mrags said: I got into an argument with someone on the FB group yesterday. (God I hope you’re here, because you're an idiot) he was complaining at first that he would be priced out of seats. I asked what section he sits in and he complained that had nothing to do with it. So I probed a little more. He wouldn’t tell me his seats. Then all the sudden he goes on a rant about how the stadium is being built mostly with tax payer money and we shouldn’t have to pay PSLs. He still wouldn’t tell me what section he was in. So I did a little Facebook stalking. And this kid didn’t even live here. He had no base whatsoever to complain about tax payer dollars. And I know plenty of people that travel quite a ways to come to games. But I doubt this kid was coming from Colorado every other weekend during the season to come to games. Which tells me he did not have season tickets, because if he’s got money to travel from Colorado 8 times a year he’s not worried about being priced out of games. He’s just butthurt that for the game or 2 a year that he comes to, he’s going to have to pay for even higher secondary prices. Hmm, I split 4 tickets with another guy, and he lives in Boulder. Makes just about every game. (Denver to Buffal direct!) but ain’t no way anyone calling that old bastard “ kid”!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 This entire process is beyond fascinating. Curious to see how it all shakes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I understood the PSL argument from the start. The part that I’m hung up on is why are you trying so hard to differentiate a PSL from any other ticketing fee that you pay as a “right to buy the ticket?” That’s obviously way more common when you’re talking about standalone events like a concert or show. You’re paying someone for the right to buy that seat. It’s the same thing. It just lines someone’s pockets as opposed to funding a portion of stadiums (although sometimes it does fund a portion of the stadium). I guess the other part that I’m hung up on is, “why do you have an issue with PSLs when the people using the product are the one’s electing to purchase?” have 2 club seats and plan to continue in a similar capacity. It is my choice whether or not to continue. Do I want to pay a crazy amount for the right to buy two seats? Of course not!! I understand though, if I’m going to be using the stadium, it’s reasonable to expect me to contribute more than someone not using it. I get that you don’t want to pay your PSL. None of us do. There will be PSLs that are probably as low as $1000. If someone can’t afford that, with 10 years to finance, they probably shouldn’t be buying season tickets. That’s $10 a month(ish). Fortunately, we all have the choice to pay it or not. If we want to keep our tickets, that’s what it’s costs now. I knew this is what the Bills were heading for years ago and started putting away some money in anticipation. Now if the actual cost of those PSLs go beyond that amount I'm not sure what I'll do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said: Hmm, I split 4 tickets with another guy, and he lives in Boulder. Makes just about every game. (Denver to Buffal direct!) but ain’t no way anyone calling that old bastard “ kid”!!!! There ain’t no way he’s complaining about being priced out if he’s got the money to travel all season long. Maybe complain about the increase in prices. But “priced out” I doubt it. and yeah, he was probably 30 years old at best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 On 3/24/2024 at 2:30 PM, muppy said: clearly the economic strata of people who watch and are entertained by the NFL is massive and crosses all social economic boundaries for reasons many already stated, I think this is a NFL billionaires money grab to profit off of our absolute LOYALTY as Bills fans. The deep pocketed ones can pay these PSL's and not really blink. And yes the Most expensive fees are for the very Best seats. I get all that. so we paupers will scrimp for our bucket list one time appearance inside the new crib by making that choice. I will do it. In a heart beat. But asking people to buy a "License" for the "privilege" of being inside the stadium for season tickets? I may be old school and cheap but to me that ain't right. at all. It's a pretty slickster move if you ask me. And you can thank the late Al Davis for it. The Raiders started this PSL crap when they moved back to Oakland from LA. Then his son, Mr Bowl Haircut, leaves again to Vegas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 27 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: I knew this is what the Bills were heading for years ago and started putting away some money in anticipation. Now if the actual cost of those PSLs go beyond that amount I'm not sure what I'll do. That’s about where I am. I just started saving for them last year really but already planning to have between 12-15k for seats by the time the stadium is built. I know I’ll have to make a decision before that, but the fact is I’ll have a pool to take from in the time being. Not sure if I’ll finance or pay it all up front. It’ll depend on the costs. I just moved my clubs closer to midfield so I’ll likely get a call a little quicker than I would have. It’s really going to depend on the cost. I want to renew in the new stadium but if I’m going to be all in for over 15k I’ll have to really think about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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