Von Miller takes pay cut

[Mango]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

If that is as reported it is a proper pay cut. 

 

What I mean by that is it isn't a restructure and it isn't swapping non-guaranteed money for a smaller amount of guaranteed money. 

 

Von's $17.5m salary this year was FULLY guaranteed. He is taking a near $9m pay cut (who knows what the incentives are). That is significant. 

It seems that the term “restructure” is getting thrown out a lot for things that don’t typically fall under the use.

 

Very curious of the implications for cutting Von. Not just next year, but even as early as this year post June 1. 

[Mango]

4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I think he legitimately thinks he can still play and this new deal gives him the opportunity to earn more than what he was scheduled to earn.

 

You can almost guarantee that 2 of the "hard to reach incentives" put in his contract are tackles and sacks.

 

That means if he gets more tackles than 2023, he reaches that incentive and earns more.

 

That wouldn't be hard considering he had 3 tackles

 

If he gets more sacks than in 2023, he reaches that incentive and earns more.

 

That wouldn't be hard considering he had 0 sacks.

 

My bet is another incentive will be games played or active, and considering he started the season on PUP, that might not be hard for him, either.

 

So yes, this is a solid for Buffalo, but he may legitimately believe he's about to earn more than he was scheduled... and all of that money goes on next year's CAP.

Am I missing something? You think Von will get a bonus for 4 tackles?

 

Bonuses are generally based on a total performance not necessarily related to the prior year. I would be shocked if Von triggered additional pay on his 4th tackle. That silly.

[NoSaint]

11 minutes ago, CA OC Bills Fan said:

This is not correct. The cap hit to cut was more than leaving him on the roster. Miller was more going to be cut. He accepted a pay cut which only favors the Bills unless possibly of he reaches incentives. I'd guess he believes in himself and expects to meet them. 

 

all that cash being paid this year would both be real dollars out of pegulas pocket and also new money to account for against the cap 

he reduced those today to be in line with what would’ve hit if he was cut. 
 

you can chose to believe it was pure goodness in his heart if you want but common sense says he was told “you will receive x dollars, do you prefer to be a bill or a free agent at that number?”

9 minutes ago, Mango said:

Am I missing something? You think Von will get a bonus for 4 tackles?

 

Bonuses are generally based on a total performance not necessarily related to the prior year. I would be shocked if Von triggered additional pay on his 4th tackle. That silly.

transplant is still working on figuring out void years. Don’t let him teach you about l likely to be earned bonuses

[Mango]

5 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

all that cash being paid this year would both be real dollars out of pegulas pocket and also new money to account for against the cap 

he reduced those today to be in line with what would’ve hit if he was cut. 
 

you can chose to believe it was pure goodness in his heart if you want but common sense says he was told “you will receive x dollars, do you prefer to be a bill or a free agent at that number?”

transplant is still working on figuring out void years. Don’t let him teach you about l likely to be earned bonuses

I think the truth is likely somewhere in the middle. Von was way too costly against the cap to cut.
 

But I do think it was possibly said “hey man, if you underperform on $25M I gotta move on from you next offseason.  It is what it is. We think this is your value now. If you reach it you can be a Bill for a while. Otherwise you’re a goner next year. If you renegotiate I’m happy to get you back to $25M in incentives commensurate with that pay/performance”

 

Also there was some rumor that Von’s original deal was voidable if charged with domestic assault. Google doesn’t tell me that case has gone away yet. This new deal might get Von some more money if something comes of it. But that’s total conjecture.  

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, HomeTeam said:

I hope he's learned from the past, I really did not like the Von signing when we made it. 

 

He's has an opportunity to do a soft reset here and have another crack at it. I'm curious how he's going to pivot his approach since their mantra is constantly growing. 

I agree. It will be interesting.  

[Westside]

5 hours ago, Bruffalo said:

Just shows how good Beane is. Top 5 GM in the league.

 

If Von plays like he was originally supposed to, he gets a bag. Perfect scenario for both sides.

He’s the one who got us into this cap mess. I’m glad he’s getting us out of it.

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, Mango said:

I think the truth is likely somewhere in the middle. Von was way too costly against the cap to cut.
 

But I do think it was possibly said “hey man, if you underperform on $25M I gotta move on from you next offseason.  It is what it is. We think this is your value now. If you reach it you can be a Bill for a while. Otherwise you’re a goner next year. If you renegotiate I’m happy to get you back to $25M in incentives commensurate with that pay/performance”

 

Also there was some rumor that Von’s original deal was voidable if charged with domestic assault. Google doesn’t tell me that case has gone away yet. This new deal might get Von some more money if something comes of it. But that’s total conjecture.  

im obviously oversimplifying for the sake of a 3 sentence post but in broad strokes it gets pretty darn close 

 

there are some other pressure and pain points - cash flows through to egos and PR - but quick and dirty is we can both walk away looking like idiots or we can both walk away looking good. Salary vs bonus, or incentives have some range of covering the nuances but two guys did the mutually beneficial thing. Not a mastermind GM or a DE with a heart of gold at play. 
 

“your pay will be the same as if you are cut but I’ll give you some incentives if you regain form”

 

“I’ll still play for you because the alternative would be quite publicly humbling for me and that’s the most I could make this year anyway”

 

is that first 1m bonus for 4 sacks or 6? Or is it $2m? Sure, there’s some noise I oversimplified but for today all we know is the other choices sucked and I’m glad neither side tried to play hard ball or call a bluff 

[Bruffalo]

3 minutes ago, Westside said:

He’s the one who got us into this cap mess. I’m glad he’s getting us out of it.

Yeah I’m mad Beane didn’t have a crystal ball to tell him that Von would get hurt too.

 

[Westside]

Just now, Bruffalo said:

Yeah I’m mad Beane didn’t have a crystal ball to tell him that Von would get hurt too.

 

Do you need a crystal ball to know not to over pay for a 30+ year old DE? It was a bad deal, too much money for to many years. 

[14774]

5 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Wet Dream come true. I honestly didn’t think that one-legged windbag would even consider this. 
Go Bills!

I'm sure he'll tell us about the favor he did, multiple times. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Is there a real chance Chris Jones will test the market?  Because him with Ed Oliver and a Von Miller who needs to hit incentives could be terror.

 

IMO if there is 1 player we could acquire that would win us the SB….it’s Chris Jones. In part because you’ve weakened KC. Instead of Allen getting hit at a key moment, it’s Mahomes

 

Yes yes we know the cap.  If Beane makes a few more moves, he can get us to 40 mil in space. Figure a way to pay Jones $$ and still balance what the effect will be in 2027

 

I do wonder if Beane said  “look we want to bring in player(s)________ and in order to do that we need to rework your contract”

 

Von loves the GM aspect, so very interesting

Edited March 7 by Warriorspikes51

[SoonerBillsFan]

34 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree. It will be interesting.  

The good thing is we have a nice out next offseason with Von if need be.  So him reducing his cap by nearly 9 mill and still having an out, that's a win win.

3 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Is there a real chance Chris Jones will test the market?  Because him with Ed Oliver and a Von Miller who needs to hit incentives could be terror.

 

IMO if there is 1 player we could acquire that would win us the SB….it’s Chris Jones. In part because you’ve weakened KC. Instead of Allen getting hit at a key moment, it’s Mahomes

 

Yes yes we know the cap.  If Beane makes a few more moves, he can get us to 40 mil in space. Figure a way to pay Jones $$ and still balance what the effect will be in 2027

Honestly, Jones is the only GA put there that I would be willing to spend money on.  I'm just not thrilled with the FA's this year.

[HappyDays]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Super interesting, but I bet those "hard to reach incentives" were attainable in Von's eyes, which is why he agreed to it.

 

Maybe. But part of me wonders if Beane threatened him - take the pay cut or we'll release you as a post-6/1 designation. A couple months back I thought that would be one way of handling his contract, I just didn't know if Beane would be willing to be that ruthless. If Von was cut he would get a paltry contract offer from another team, and we would be stuck with a bunch of dead money, so it is a good compromise for both sides to accept this pay cut.

[JerseyBills]

ALL These moves, my head is spinning. How we feeling Mafia?

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, boyst said:

Could Knox be next? 👀

 

From a reliable source, Knox was asked to take a paycut. I heard this last week but never got an update.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

If that is as reported it is a proper pay cut. 

 

What I mean by that is it isn't a restructure and it isn't swapping non-guaranteed money for a smaller amount of guaranteed money. 

 

Von's $17.5m salary this year was FULLY guaranteed. He is taking a near $9m pay cut (who knows what the incentives are). That is significant. 

 

Yeah, just what I was thinking, a pay cut.

 

Part of it might be not yet reported.

 

But I think Von might see a pay cut as fair with how the injuries made him unable to play for most of the past two years. He's already very rich. A cut like that is Von giving either being nice or recognizing that his value isn't the same. Or a combination of both, probably.

 

Nice for the Bills, though.

 

 

Edited March 7 by Thurman#1

[John from Riverside]

25 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

ALL These moves, my head is spinning. How we feeling Mafia?

I’m not feeling as bad as I thought I was going to I’m big fans of guys like Poyer, white and Morse
 

But we all knew this day was coming, even if it wasn’t going to be this year

[Thurman#1]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

From a reliable source, Knox was asked to take a paycut. I heard this last week but never got an update.

 

Hunh.

 

I can believe that, it would make sense.

 

They can't really believably  threaten to cut him this offseason, not with a dead cap hit of $20M. But if he cuts his salary to make it more palatable for the Bills to keep him long-term, they could in turn guarantee some of his salary over the next couple of years.

[JerseyBills]

12 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I’m not feeling as bad as I thought I was going to I’m big fans of guys like Poyer, white and Morse
 

But we all knew this day was coming, even if it wasn’t going to be this year

Yea same. Damn shame we're losing 4 staples in this era in White Hyde Poyer and even Morse but ya def saw it coming. Only wish we got them boys a much deserved ring. 

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

The contract is going to be re-wrote for these incentives.

I'm POSITIVE it won't be the standard LTBE/NLTBE incentives.

 

6 hours ago, FireChans said:

Hm, do you have a link?

 

there’s certainly a LTBE and NLTBE, but I thought the teams are allowed to set whatever they want as the actual numbers.

 

Not likely to be earned incentives are typically based on the player's previous statistical season. I listen to a LOT of Greg Tompsett. That's exactly how he defines it.

 

You can Google it and that's how it's defined, too.

 

I'm sure that player and team can come to a different agreement, but what would be the motivation for the player? The entire point is that it benefits both player and team, as this does.

 

Tompsett also points out that it can work in favor of the team when a player agrees to LIKELY to be earned incentives, but doesn't reach them. For example, Matt Milano signed an extension last offseason. We don't know the details of the incentives in his contract, but assuming the team put incentives in his contract that were likely to be earned incentives in his contract like tackles, sacks, interceptions, and games played... he likely didn't meet those incentives. Those likely to be earned incentives would have counted against the CAP last year and therefore we'd get that money back in the CAP this year.

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

The magic number for those incentives is 10.  Not 10 sacks, but a combination of 10 tackles or QB pressures.

 

I don't doubt that, but you hearing this from anywhere in particular????

 

10 tackles won't be difficult for him to reach, anyway.

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

From a reliable source, Knox was asked to take a paycut. I heard this last week but never got an update.

 

That would surprise me. Though I'd def be here for it.

 

Prevailing thought is he's being cut next season when it's best to get out of his deal. And the way his contract is, we don't really have a leg to stand on as far as "we need you to take a paycut if you want to stay here".

 

He and his agent know with a 20m Dead Cap Hit, it's not really an option for us. They also probably know that odds are pretty good he's out next season. I don't see him choosing to take a paycut under these circumstances and I'd be surprised if Beane even tried.

Edited March 7 by BillsFanForever19

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Am I missing something? You think Von will get a bonus for 4 tackles?

 

Bonuses are generally based on a total performance not necessarily related to the prior year. I would be shocked if Von triggered additional pay on his 4th tackle. That silly.

 

It wouldn't be a bonus. It's a not likely to be earned incentive, which are typically based on the player's previous statistical season. I listen to a LOT of Greg Tompsett. That's exactly how he defines it.

 

You can Google it and that's how it's defined, too.

 

I'm sure that player and team can come to a different agreement, but what would be the motivation for the player? The entire point is that it benefits both player and team, as this does. That's how you so often hear of players agreeing to something we equate to a "payout." They can earn it back. And if they do, the team owes it the following year.

 

Tompsett also points out that it can work in favor of the team when a player agrees to LIKELY to be earned incentives, but doesn't reach them. For example, Matt Milano signed an extension last offseason. We don't know the details of the incentives in his contract, but assuming the team put incentives in his contract that were likely to be earned incentives in his contract like tackles, sacks, interceptions, and games played... he likely didn't meet those incentives. Those likely to be earned incentives would have counted against the CAP last year and therefore we'd get that money back in the CAP this year.

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Maybe. But part of me wonders if Beane threatened him - take the pay cut or we'll release you as a post-6/1 designation. A couple months back I thought that would be one way of handling his contract, I just didn't know if Beane would be willing to be that ruthless. If Von was cut he would get a paltry contract offer from another team, and we would be stuck with a bunch of dead money, so it is a good compromise for both sides to accept this pay cut.

 

If the report is that Von can still earn $20m next year, I doubt it's Beane being ruthless and would bet on the not likely to be earned incentives.

[John from Riverside]

He is betting on himself
I like it

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Westside said:

Do you need a crystal ball to know not to over pay for a 30+ year old DE? It was a bad deal, too much money for to many years. 

 

 

Yes, you do need a crystal ball.

 

I mean, the way you worded it, it's obvious. If it's an overpay, don't do it. If it's an underpay, do do it. If it's just on target, do it.

 

But that's not the way the world works. Plenty of 30+ DEs have been signed for a ton of money and been worth every penny. And plenty of others have not. Knowing which will be which would indeed require a crystal ball, or more specifically, it's impossible.

 

Not everyone is as successful as an older front seven / pass rushing guy as Willie McGinest or Kevin Greene or Calais Campbell or Terrell Suggs or Reggie White or James Harrison or Jason Taylor or Chris Doleman or Michael Strahan or Julius Peppers or Bruce Smith or Jim Jeffcoat or Neil Smith or Trace Armstrong or Sean Jones or Too Tall Jones or Clyde Simmons or Robert Mathis or Rickey Jackson or Leslie O'Neal or John Abraham or John Randle or Justin Smith or Brandon Graham or Clay Matthews or Ron McDole or ...

 

I could go on but the more obvious ones are gone.

 

Hell, Jerry Hughes had a really good season at 34. London Fletcher.

 

Point is, some guys don't. Others .... you know ... do.

 

So yeah, you do need a crystal ball. Could've worked out, especially with the plans to platoon him. So far it hasn't, but it could have.

 

 

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

I’m not feeling as bad as I thought I was going to I’m big fans of guys like Poyer, white and Morse
 

But we all knew this day was coming, even if it wasn’t going to be this year

 

 

I'm feeling bad emotionally, and I'm worried about the center of the o-line. They were, at long last, genuinely good all along the line this year. Now we don't know how next year will look.

[John from Riverside]

5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yes, you do need a crystal ball.

 

I mean, the way you worded it, it's obvious. If it's an overpay, don't do it. If it's an underpay, do do it. If it's just on target, do it.

 

But that's not the way the world works. Plenty of 30+ DEs have been signed for a ton of money and been worth every penny. And plenty of others have not. Knowing which will be which would indeed require a crystal ball, or more specifically, it's impossible.

 

Not everyone is as successful as an older front seven / pass rushing guy as Willie McGinest or Kevin Greene or Calais Campbell or Terrell Suggs or Reggie White or James Harrison or Jason Taylor or Chris Doleman or Michael Strahan or Julius Peppers or Bruce Smith or Jim Jeffcoat or Neil Smith or Trace Armstrong or Sean Jones or Too Tall Jones or Clyde Simmons or Robert Mathis or Rickey Jackson or Leslie O'Neal or John Abraham or John Randle or Justin Smith or Brandon Graham or Clay Matthews or Ron McDole or ...

 

I could go on but the more obvious ones are gone.

 

Hell, Jerry Hughes had a really good season at 34. London Fletcher.

 

Point is, some guys don't. Others .... you know ... do.

 

So yeah, you do need a crystal ball. Could've worked out, especially with the plans to platoon him. So far it hasn't, but it could have.

 

 

 

 

I'm feeling bad emotionally, and I'm worried about the center of the o-line. They were, at long last, genuinely good all along the line this year. Now we don't know how next year will look.

I feel you
One thing to consider and I always do whenever it came to Morse. He’s one hit away from another concussion and an aging player that doesn’t make it hurt any less but he’s not on the team.

[Thurman#1]

28 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

It wouldn't be a bonus. It's a not likely to be earned incentive, which are typically based on the player's previous statistical season. I listen to a LOT of Greg Tompsett. That's exactly how he defines it.

 

You can Google it and that's how it's defined, too.

 

 

 

That's the difference between likely to be earned and not likely to be earned. It's not what they are "typically based on."

 

There are PLENTY of not likely to be earned bonuses set a lot higher than what the player did last year.

 

So a likely to be earned incentive on tackles for Von would have to be at 3 tackles or less. But a not likely to be earned incentive could be set at four. Or at 50.

 

There's a famous story about Brady keeping Gronk in the last game of the year to earn his incentives. Those incentives were set at 55 receptions and 750 yards. But the year before he'd put up 45 catches and 623 yards.

 

You can set not-likelies as high as you want.

 

 

19 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I feel you
One thing to consider and I always do whenever it came to Morse. He’s one hit away from another concussion and an aging player that doesn’t make it hurt any less but he’s not on the team.

 

 

Yup. Good point.

 

Doesn't make his replacements better, unfortunately. They seem to have more confidence in Conor McDermott at center than I do, though we may see differently in FA or the draft.

 

 

Edited March 7 by Thurman#1

[Turk71]

Von taking a pay cut and loading his contract with incentives instead of guaranteed money is an incredible development. 

 He was already guaranteed the money and didn't have to take a pay cut. The fact that he did and loaded his contract with incentives instead tells me that he plans on being really good again. 

[billsfan89]

4 hours ago, NoSaint said:

vons alternative was to be cut, be signed to a meager deal and look bad 

 

this was simply a good business decision for both sides in the midst of a bad set of alternatives for each 

The Bills were saddled with a bad contract and Von had little other options they met in the middle. A good compromise for both honestly.

[The Red King]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

Von Miller is a washed up NFL football player that is a distraction. If Von Miller was a team player he should retire. The Buffalo Bills should have never signed him. Von Miller should have been released today he has no value as a NFL player anymore and certainly can’t help

the Bills other than sitting on his but with a Bills jacket wrapped around himself playing sparely. At least the Chuck Knox over the hill 1980’s Buffalo Bills players like Conrad Dobler had some professional pride and gave the 1980 Bills something. Von Miller has given the Bills nothing total waste of a Bills roster spot. I don’t want to hear about Von Miller’s knee Conrad Dobler had bad knees without the medical technology we have today to repair his knee. Suck it and play Von Miller or retire in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

 

Miller pressured Mahomes into throwing a pic that sealed a Bills' win over KC two years ago.  That's just one example.  People seem to forget Von actually looked good until he got injured.  Can he bounce back this year?  We'll see.  But stop saying he never did anything for the Bills.  Wanna blame something?  Blame that garbage turf in Detroit.

[BillMafia716ix]

Von is so confident that he’s going to bounce back he took a 10M pay cut to help the team and can still earn it all back and then some if he produces. Talk about betting on yourself. 

[BillMafia716ix]

Von is essentially betting on himself this season. Good news for us and very rewarding for him if he does. 

[Doc Brown]

6 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Von is essentially betting on himself this season. Good news for us and very rewarding for him if he does. 

The power of positive thinking.  Some may say delusional.  Interested to see what the incentives are.

[JohnNord]

Shouldn’t both these threads be merged?

[bmur66]

I hope this gives the Bills an easy out after next season.

[Captain Hindsight]

11 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Von’s play decline was due to injury

He made a play against the chiefs in the playoff game where he moved so quickly and violently I couldn’t believe it was him. The play was called back on a penalty but I hope that was a preview of him recovering 

[boyst]

8 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

hmm you live in Nashville right? Knox and his family are there aren’t they?  It would be quite something if he reworked it after just signing last year

no i live in greensboro, nc.

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

From a reliable source, Knox was asked to take a paycut. I heard this last week but never got an update.

🤔😉

[Mango]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

It wouldn't be a bonus. It's a not likely to be earned incentive, which are typically based on the player's previous statistical season. I listen to a LOT of Greg Tompsett. That's exactly how he defines it.

 

You can Google it and that's how it's defined, too.

 

I'm sure that player and team can come to a different agreement, but what would be the motivation for the player? The entire point is that it benefits both player and team, as this does. That's how you so often hear of players agreeing to something we equate to a "payout." They can earn it back. And if they do, the team owes it the following year.

 

Tompsett also points out that it can work in favor of the team when a player agrees to LIKELY to be earned incentives, but doesn't reach them. For example, Matt Milano signed an extension last offseason. We don't know the details of the incentives in his contract, but assuming the team put incentives in his contract that were likely to be earned incentives in his contract like tackles, sacks, interceptions, and games played... he likely didn't meet those incentives. Those likely to be earned incentives would have counted against the CAP last year and therefore we'd get that money back in the CAP this year.

 

If the report is that Von can still earn $20m next year, I doubt it's Beane being ruthless and would bet on the not likely to be earned incentives.

Greg gets some things right. But he gets a lot wrong especially regarding the cap. Cover 1 started as great. They’re less great now. Just my opinion on them. 
 

I think the reason a player is willing to take an incentive laden deal in this situation is because if they don’t his career likely ends. Unless Von has 15+ sacks this year his time here is done at season end. And maybe his career overall is done. You can’t keep a guy who vastly underperforms his cost. And nobody wants to sign a guy who underperforms. 
 

But take a haircut with the possibility to win it back based on performance? If Von gets 8.5 sacks this year at $8M people are having the conversation “He just needed a year to get right” and even if he doesn’t stick around here he is a guy who performed at a level commensurate with his pay. Good credit and bad credit matter. 

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

Greg gets some things right. But he gets a lot wrong especially regarding the cap. Cover 1 started as great. They’re less great now. Just my opinion on them. 
 

I think the reason a player is willing to take an incentive laden deal in this situation is because if they don’t his career likely ends. Unless Von has 15+ sacks this year his time here is done at season end. And maybe his career overall is done. You can’t keep a guy who vastly underperforms his cost. And nobody wants to sign a guy who underperforms. 
 

But take a haircut with the possibility to win it back based on performance? If Von gets 8.5 sacks this year at $8M people are having the conversation “He just needed a year to get right” and even if he doesn’t stick around here he is a guy who performed at a level commensurate with his pay. Good credit and bad credit matter. 

Von that even 80% of himself is a 10 plus sack guy

[Mango]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Von that even 80% of himself is a 10 plus sack guy

And that is really bad value at his previous $25M cap number. You don’t pay premier pass rusher money for 10 sacks. 
 

But it’s good value for $8M.