Josh officially a finalist for MVP

[miketysonslisp]

MVP has never been a stat award (Drew Brees?)

Once you come to terms with that- it's easy to see why Lamar is going to be the MVP.

It's the best player on the best team (with good enough stats).

The Ravens played in the hardest division in the league (3 teams made the playoffs, all 4 teams winning records). Not only that- the teams they played outside their division were also playoff contenders Det, SF, Mia, Rams, etc.

Lamar was consistent and controlling and limited mistakes. He allowed the defense on Baltimore to thrive by sustaining long drives and controlling opposing defenses with his legs and arms while minimizing turnovers. They were beyond the point where he needed to air it out in many games. They have the most wins over 14 points in a season ever in the history of the NFL. that's crazy if you think about it. They blew teams out and he had no reason to try and pass/pad stats to keep score. He just did the best, on the best team, and was pretty consistent within the context of this years players.

 

Would I rather have JA17? Yes. Allen is a better passer and I would say almost as good a runner, and possibly in his own way- a better runner than Lamar. But is Lamar the MVP over JA17 this year? Yes. Lamar was more consistent in what he had to do to get his team to the top of the league than Josh.

 

[ChrisWatson#21]

3 hours ago, boyst said:

None of them deserve it 

They asked whoever wanted to be an MVP to take a step forward and nobody did.  They should give it to Taylor Swift.

[Chicken Boo]

2 hours ago, LarryMadman said:

You know what is irritating about this whole MVP thing is the amount of disrespect Josh Allen consistantly gets from everybody including Bills fans.

 

Allen has had 4 seasons better than Lamars MVP season and this year Lamar wasn't as good as 2019. This award is bogus if Allen doesnt win it, everybody knows Allen is the best player in the league and deserves it. If Lamar wins it, which he shouldn't everyone will know exactaly why, if you don't, you're not paying attention. Getting tired of politics in sports.    

 

Lies!  Lamar had 43 TDs to 8 total turnovers in 2019 with 1,200 yards on the ground. 

 

Show me 4 Allen seasons better than that.

[boyst]

3 minutes ago, ChrisWatson#21 said:

They asked whoever wanted to be an MVP to take a step forward and nobody did.  They should give it to Taylor Swift.

she led to a larger increase in revenue than anyone not named Allen

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Yeah, I think Lamar Jackson's performance in a couple of games that the Ravens won ices the deal for him.

 

Yes, I too think he wins it ... but he shouldn't.

 

 

[Success]

I really don't care about this.

 

Allen does more for his team than any QB.  Anyone who watched this season, and watched on Sunday, can see that.  He gets almost no help at times.  And that's what an MVP is to ME.  

 

But Lamar had a great year. He'll win it, and he's not undeserving.

 

And Allen doesn't need anything else to inspire the media class & other fanbases to start hyperventilating about how overhyped & overrated he is.  I hope we can go into next season being more underestimated and less talked about than we have been.

 

[ChrisWatson#21]

18 minutes ago, boyst said:

she led to a larger increase in revenue than anyone not named Allen

This is the reason why my head is all f’ed up thinking Josh took a dive for the league on that final drive.  We know how Josh Allen plays and THAT was not the Allen we know and have watched closely for six years now.  Did he go Hollywood on us before our eyes?  If I didn’t believe the NFL is somewhat rigged at least I would believe how poorly Allen played that entire final drive where he almost throws an INT, fumbles the ball with minimal contact and makes a mess out of the final two plays of the offense.  He’s never played that poorly with more pressure on him when he plays at Arrowhead and all that noise vs the same team.  I still can’t get over that one. 

Edited January 25 by ChrisWatson#21

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

21 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Lies!  Lamar had 43 TDs to 8 total turnovers in 2019 with 1,200 yards on the ground. 

 

Show me 4 Allen seasons better than that.

 

Lamar certainly has less turnovers, but offensively, I'd would argue Josh, stat wise is just as good if not better. 

 

Lamar Jackson 2019 MVP Season = 4333 combined total yards and 43 combined TDs

                           2023 Season = 4499/29TDs (sat final game)*

 

Josh Allen  2020 (4965/45 TDs), 2021 (5170/42 TDs), 2022 (5045/42 TDs), 2023 (4830/44 TDs).  

Edited January 25 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[Teddy KGB]

Media loves Lamar though 

 

He’s  the best and Josh is a turnover machine they say 

Edited January 25 by Teddy KGB

[boyst]

7 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

Media loves Lamar though 

 

He’s  the best and Josh is a turnover machine they say 

The talking heads love the Lamar. The loudest people love Lamar.

[Billzgobowlin]

Only two on there are actually the most valuable player.  McCaffrey and Allen.  All the other teams would still be playoff bound without them. 

[LarryMadman]

34 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Lamar certainly has less turnovers, but offensively, I'd would argue Josh, stat wise is just as good if not better. 

 

Lamar Jackson 2019 MVP Season = 4333 combined total yards and 43 combined TDs

                           2023 Season = 4499/29TDs (sat final game)*

 

Josh Allen  2020 (4965/45 TDs), 2021 (5170/42 TDs), 2022 (5045/42 TDs), 2023 (4830/44 TDs).  

Yup, Josh also caught a 12 yard TD in 2020

[zow2]

On Nick Wright's show today, First Things First...he took the Josh hate to a new level and said no way should Josh be on the MVP ballot, or Purdy either.  He pointed to mostly the rushing game fluff's up Allen and that his passing stats are not good enough.  But isn't Lamar about to win MVP in part due to his rushing game?  That stuff is important in 2024.   He didn't think two guys from the same team should be on the MVP ballot therefore he eliminated Purdy.

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Lamar certainly has less turnovers, but offensively, I'd would argue Josh, stat wise is just as good if not better. 

 

Lamar Jackson 2019 MVP Season = 4333 combined total yards and 43 combined TDs

                           2023 Season = 4499/29TDs (sat final game)*

 

Josh Allen  2020 (4965/45 TDs), 2021 (5170/42 TDs), 2022 (5045/42 TDs), 2023 (4830/44 TDs).  

 

Leaving out Josh's turnovers speaks volumes.  

 

Stats are only part of the story.  The original comment said that Josh had 4 seasons better than Lamar's MVP year.  That's simply not true.  

 

Even on paper, Josh's passing stats this past season look pedestrian.  It's been a down year for all the top QBs.  

Edited January 25 by Chicken Boo

[CincyBillsFan]

29 minutes ago, zow2 said:

On Nick Wright's show today, First Things First...he took the Josh hate to a new level and said no way should Josh be on the MVP ballot, or Purdy either.  He pointed to mostly the rushing game fluff's up Allen and that his passing stats are not good enough.  But isn't Lamar about to win MVP in part due to his rushing game?  That stuff is important in 2024.   He didn't think two guys from the same team should be on the MVP ballot therefore he eliminated Purdy.

Actually Wright's hatred of Allen only confirms that Allen is the only QB out there that Nick fears could be better then Mahomes under the right circumstances.  As for Purdy, Wright is jealous that he has had an even better situation to start his NFL career then Mahomes did.  And because of that Purdy may soon be hosting a Lombardi trophy and producing better SB stats then Mahomey.

 

Nick Wright hates and trashes what he fears.

 

 

[Nextmanup]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Yup, Josh will be runner up a 3rd time.

He won't win.

 

Agreed.

 

 

[CSBill]

It’s Lamar’s award this year by process of elimination, but Dak and no Mahomes? Come on 🤪

Edited January 25 by CSBill

[DCOrange]

Don’t get the people saying Dak shouldn’t be in there. He had a great season; arguably better than Josh. Obviously sucked in the playoffs though. 

[loyal2dagame]

54 minutes ago, zow2 said:

On Nick Wright's show today, First Things First...he took the Josh hate to a new level and said no way should Josh be on the MVP ballot, or Purdy either.  He pointed to mostly the rushing game fluff's up Allen and that his passing stats are not good enough.  But isn't Lamar about to win MVP in part due to his rushing game?  That stuff is important in 2024.   He didn't think two guys from the same team should be on the MVP ballot therefore he eliminated Purdy.

Exactly.  And there's the rub. And your biting on what billdo noise Wright is casting.  

And now he's got you.... Saying his name in conversations and spreading his marking for free. I didn't fully understand the genius of this idiot until recently. He has toxic takes to get people to say his name,  watch his youtube clips,  or tune in to his horrible show. 

This guy is a modern day clown running the circus. And people show up to watch the sh¡tshow as reality, even though it's an act. 

[Success]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

On Nick Wright's show today, First Things First...he took the Josh hate to a new level and said no way should Josh be on the MVP ballot, or Purdy either.  He pointed to mostly the rushing game fluff's up Allen and that his passing stats are not good enough.  But isn't Lamar about to win MVP in part due to his rushing game?  That stuff is important in 2024.   He didn't think two guys from the same team should be on the MVP ballot therefore he eliminated Purdy.

 

I give you credit for being able to listen to that guy.

 

I was watching that show for awhile.  But like Bayless made his career off of hating Lebron, Wright is doing the same w/ Allen.

 

And hopefully, he'll look like just as much of a fool when JA ends up w/ 4 titles. But I will not know, because I will not listen to him.  His act is obvious, pitiful, and a disgrace.

 

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Actually Wright's hatred of Allen only confirms that Allen is the only QB out there that Nick fears could be better then Mahomes under the right circumstances.  As for Purdy, Wright is jealous that he has had an even better situation to start his NFL career then Mahomes did.  And because of that Purdy may soon be hosting a Lombardi trophy and producing better SB stats then Mahomey.

 

Nick Wright hates and trashes what he fears.

 

 

Pretty much the Chiefs have lost to Burrow in the Playoffs but it was more due to a comedy of errors on their own part than anything. With Allen Mahomes played some of his best football ever and Allen was like a terrifying monster that refused to die.

[LarryMadman]

2 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Leaving out Josh's turnovers speaks volumes.  

 

Stats are only part of the story.  The original comment said that Josh had 4 seasons better than Lamar's MVP year.  That's simply not true.  

 

Even on paper, Josh's passing stats this past season look pedestrian.  It's been a down year for all the top QBs.  

Lol, Lamar had 15 turnovers in 2019 Josh has had 19, 23, 27 and 25 it's not like Josh had 35 and Lamar only had 10. It's all relative, sad that so many bang on Josh ints as the deciding factor to try and justify why he isn't good, haters gonna hate I guess. Please do tell the rest of the story as his stats suggest he in fact has had 4 seasons better than Lamars MVP year. Lamar will never be as good as Josh.

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, miketysonslisp said:

MVP has never been a stat award (Drew Brees?)

Once you come to terms with that- it's easy to see why Lamar is going to be the MVP.

It's the best player on the best team (with good enough stats).

The Ravens played in the hardest division in the league (3 teams made the playoffs, all 4 teams winning records). Not only that- the teams they played outside their division were also playoff contenders Det, SF, Mia, Rams, etc.

Lamar was consistent and controlling and limited mistakes. He allowed the defense on Baltimore to thrive by sustaining long drives and controlling opposing defenses with his legs and arms while minimizing turnovers. They were beyond the point where he needed to air it out in many games. They have the most wins over 14 points in a season ever in the history of the NFL. that's crazy if you think about it. They blew teams out and he had no reason to try and pass/pad stats to keep score. He just did the best, on the best team, and was pretty consistent within the context of this years players.

 

Would I rather have JA17? Yes. Allen is a better passer and I would say almost as good a runner, and possibly in his own way- a better runner than Lamar. But is Lamar the MVP over JA17 this year? Yes. Lamar was more consistent in what he had to do to get his team to the top of the league than Josh.

 

 

MVP in part has always been a stat award.  Usually goes to 1 or 2 seed and the QBs are almost always top 3 in TDs at the very least.

[LeGOATski]

Purdy and Dak should not even be in the conversation.

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, CSBill said:

It’s Lamar’s award this year by process of elimination, but Dak and no Mahomes? Come on 🤪

We all know Mahomes is better than Dak.  As much as some want to fight it though its a seed/stat award.  Mahomes didn't have the seeding nor the stats.  Dak was the 2 seed and also top of the league in stats.  #1 in passing Tds.  #3 in yards.  Mahomes was the 3 seed, #8 in TD passes, and 6th in yards.  The award has pretty much always gone to the 1 or 2 seed.  The award has almost always gone to the QB that is in the 1 or 2 seed and lead the league in TDs (or top 3) and also top 5 or so in passing yards.  At least for the last decade or so.

 

 

The rest of the list for those that care...

 

AP Most Valuable Player

– Josh Allen (Bills)

– Lamar Jackson (Ravens)

– Christian McCaffrey (49ers)

– Dak Prescott (Cowboys)

– Brock Purdy (49ers)

 

AP Coach of the Year

– Dan Campbell (Lions)

– John Harbaugh (Ravens)

– DeMeco Ryans (Texans)

– Kyle Shanahan (49ers)

– Kevin Stefanski (Browns)

 

AP Assistant Coach of the Year

– Ben Johnson (Lions)

– Mike Macdonald (Ravens)

– Todd Monken (Ravens)

– Jim Schwartz (Browns)

– Bobby Slowik (Texans)

 

AP Offensive Player of the Year

– Tyreek Hill (Dolphins)

– Lamar Jackson (Ravens)

– CeeDee Lamb (Cowboys)

– Christian McCaffrey (49ers)

– Dak Prescott (Cowboys)

 

AP Defensive Player of the Year

– DaRon Bland (Cowboys)

– Maxx Crosby (Raiders)

– Myles Garrett (Browns)

– Micah Parsons (Cowboys)

– T.J. Watt (Steelers)

 

AP Comeback Player of the Year

– Joe Flacco (Browns)

– Damar Hamlin (Bills)

– Baker Mayfield (Buccaneers)

– Matthew Stafford (Rams)

– Tua Tagovailoa (Dolphins)

 

AP Offensive Rookie of the Year

– Jahmyr Gibbs (Lions)

– Sam LaPorta (Lions)

– Puka Nacua (Rams)

– Bijan Robinson (Falcons)

– C.J. Stroud (Texans)

 

AP Defensive Rookie of the Year

– Will Anderson (Texans)

– Jalen Carter (Eagles)

– Joey Porter Jr. (Steelers)

– Kobie Turner (Rams)

– Devon Witherspoon (Seahawks)

 

The NFL and The Associated Press have announced the finalists for their annual awards for the 2023 NFL season. Award winners will be announced at NFL Honors on Thursday, Feb. 8 at the Resorts World Theatre in Las Vegas. NFL Honors will air live at 9 p.m. ET on the CBS Television Network and NFL Network and stream live on Paramount+ and NFL+.

Edited January 26 by Scott7975

[miketysonslisp]

51 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

AP Offensive Player of the Year

– Tyreek Hill (Dolphins)

– Lamar Jackson (Ravens)

– CeeDee Lamb (Cowboys)

– Christian McCaffrey (49ers)

– Dak Prescott (Cowboys)

 

 

I can understand Lamar for mvp over Allen given the context of his division and what he did this season. But how could Lamar be on this offensive player of yr list without Allen is something I dont understand. If anything this is the stat metric award more than any of the other awards..

[Chicken Boo]

4 hours ago, LarryMadman said:

Lol, Lamar had 15 turnovers in 2019 Josh has had 19, 23, 27 and 25 it's not like Josh had 35 and Lamar only had 10. It's all relative, sad that so many bang on Josh ints as the deciding factor to try and justify why he isn't good, haters gonna hate I guess. Please do tell the rest of the story as his stats suggest he in fact has had 4 seasons better than Lamars MVP year. Lamar will never be as good as Josh.

 

Lamar only had 8 turnovers in 2019.  

 

19-27 turnovers per season is pretty awful.

[LarryMadman]

8 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Lamar only had 8 turnovers in 2019.  

 

19-27 turnovers per season is pretty awful.

Ok, whatever LJ had 8 lost turnovers in 2019

 

Josh has had 16, 18 19 and 22 lost turnovers. It's not like Josh was turning the ball over 35 times and Lamar only 10. The turnover numbers are pretty much all the same Lamar just got a little luckier that his guys fell on the ball more than Josh's guys did. 

 

You want to rag on Joshs turnovers as a way to discredit him yet wont acknowledge all his other stats that best Lamar, please! 

4 seasons now Josh has bested Lamars MVP year, stats dont lie. 

 

[Chicken Boo]

48 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

Ok, whatever LJ had 8 lost turnovers in 2019

 

Josh has had 16, 18 19 and 22 lost turnovers. It's not like Josh was turning the ball over 35 times and Lamar only 10. The turnover numbers are pretty much all the same Lamar just got a little luckier that his guys fell on the ball more than Josh's guys did. 

 

You want to rag on Joshs turnovers as a way to discredit him yet wont acknowledge all his other stats that best Lamar, please! 

4 seasons now Josh has bested Lamars MVP year, stats dont lie. 

 

 

All those stats has led to how many MVPs?  The turnovers matter, whether you want to discount them or not.  

[ToGoGo]

47 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

All those stats has led to how many MVPs?  The turnovers matter, whether you want to discount them or not.  

Go back to the Ravens board. 

[Big Turk]

Irritating thing?

 

If Allen played the way he does in the playoffs all the time, we would likely get the 1 seed every year and he would win MVP every year.

 

 

[LarryMadman]

55 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

All those stats has led to how many MVPs?  The turnovers matter, whether you want to discount them or not.  

According to your flawed logic Farve, Manning, Marino, Elway, Kelly, Roethlisberger, Brees, Brady etc shouldn't be or headed to HOF, because turnovers.

 

Not all turnovers are created equal nor do all turnovers turn into opponent points. Yet running and passing TDs all count. 

 

As i've said numerous times all the QBs have roughly the same amout of turnovers, it's not like Josh has 35 of them and Lamar has 10 of them, that's a big noticable difference. When the difference is 10-12 range and everybody is within the same metric it isn't a big deal and the only people who think it's a big deal are pure haters looking for reasons to hate. 

 

Truely is amazing the hate Josh gets being the best QB in the league. Go root for a different team as you surely seem to not appreciate what Josh does and only want to rag on his "turnovers".

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, LarryMadman said:

According to your flawed logic Farve, Manning, Marino, Elway, Kelly, Roethlisberger, Brees, Brady etc shouldn't be or headed to HOF, because turnovers.

 

Not all turnovers are created equal nor do all turnovers turn into opponent points. Yet running and passing TDs all count. 

 

As i've said numerous times all the QBs have roughly the same amout of turnovers, it's not like Josh has 35 of them and Lamar has 10 of them, that's a big noticable difference. When the difference is 10-12 range and everybody is within the same metric it isn't a big deal and the only people who think it's a big deal are pure haters looking for reasons to hate. 

 

Truely is amazing the hate Josh gets being the best QB in the league. Go root for a different team as you surely seem to not appreciate what Josh does and only want to rag on his "turnovers".

 

Even if Josh had similar turnovers to Lamar, he wouldn't win anyway.   Remember in 2021 when Lamar was a Pro Bowler with a combined 3649/18 TDS and Josh was snubbed with a combined 5170/42TDs.  No different today.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

All those stats has led to how many MVPs? 

 

How many of Lamar’s MVP’s have led to playoff wins? How many playoff wins did his lack of turnovers lead the Ravens to?

 

Lamar was 1-4 in the playoffs going into this season.

 

Allen has won more than double the playoff games Lamar has.

 

If the Ravens offered Lamar and 5 first round picks for Allen, I would laugh and hang up the phone. Allen > Lamar.

 

 

I’m just hoping Lamar can keep it together for 1 more game so I don’t have to see the Chiefs in the Super Bowl.

[C.Biscuit97]

Even though he won’t win it, the fact that we have a QB who is even in the discussion blows my mind. I’m tough on Allen because I think some fans give him a pass (😉) for everything (turnovers were a big issue in the regular season. 
 

but he truly is a special player. All the credit in the world for him becoming a better player than he was in the Mountain West, which seemed impossible. It is truly unbelievable. 

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

How many of Lamar’s MVP’s have led to playoff wins? How many playoff wins did his lack of turnovers lead the Ravens to?

 

Lamar was 1-4 in the playoffs going into this season.

 

Allen has won more than double the playoff games Lamar has.

 

If the Ravens offered Lamar and 5 first round picks for Allen, I would laugh and hang up the phone. Allen > Lamar.

 

 

So if Lamar wins the SB, do those losses even matter any more? Peyton was awful in the playoffs until they won a SB.

30 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

Go back to the Ravens board. 

So if you point a concern that is valid (Josh would even say it himself), you must be a Ravens fan? What a silly post. This isn’t a cult. 

[HappyDays]

30 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Irritating thing?

 

If Allen played the way he does in the playoffs all the time, we would likely get the 1 seed every year and he would win MVP every year.

 

 

 

If Allen played the way he does in the playoffs all the time he would have a short lived career.

 

The irritating thing is that he has to play that way at all, because the weapons around him aren't good enough.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, LarryMadman said:

Ok, whatever LJ had 8 lost turnovers in 2019

 

Josh has had 16, 18 19 and 22 lost turnovers. It's not like Josh was turning the ball over 35 times and Lamar only 10. The turnover numbers are pretty much all the same Lamar just got a little luckier that his guys fell on the ball more than Josh's guys did. 

 

You want to rag on Joshs turnovers as a way to discredit him yet wont acknowledge all his other stats that best Lamar, please! 

4 seasons now Josh has bested Lamars MVP year, stats dont lie. 

 

So if Allen helped us get the number 1 seed; almost set a nfl record for amount of time leading in games (the Ravens have been stomping teams so they need to have garbage time stats); murdered some of the best teams in the nfl (SF, MiAmi, Texans, Detroit), and had Lamar’s stats, you won’t think he was the mVp?

 

Allen is absolutely amazing. But it was a very inconsistent offense and turnovers didn’t help. I think Allen can be an even better qb next year with less gaudy stats. 

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So if Allen helped us get the number 1 seed; almost set a nfl record for amount of time leading in games (the Ravens have been stomping teams so they need to have garbage time stats); murdered some of the best teams in the nfl (SF, MiAmi, Texans, Detroit), and had Lamar’s stats, you won’t think he was the mVp?

 

Allen is absolutely amazing. But it was a very inconsistent offense and turnovers didn’t help. I think Allen can be an even better qb next year with less gaudy stats. 

 

Hopefully Allen can clean up the turnovers some, but I think at best he will always be in that 10-15 range for INT's every year. Josh has that Brett Favre quality in him in that he has a gunslinger's mentality that he will take chances. It's a big reason why Josh makes so many great plays along with how athletic he is but that same style will also lead to turnovers from time to time. 

[Einstein]

20 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So if Lamar wins the SB, do those losses even matter any more?

 

Nope, and that’s the way it works. When you have the playoff resume that Lamar has, you’re a playoff loser until proven otherwise.

 

Ill be rooting for him Sunday, but will be absolutely shocked if he could beat both KC and whoever represents the NFC.

[Gregg]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Nope, and that’s the way it works. When you have the playoff resume that Lamar has, you’re a playoff loser until proven otherwise.

 

Ill be rooting for him Sunday, but will be absolutely shocked if he could beat both KC and whoever represents the NFC.

 

The Ravens beat the Lions 38-6 and beat the Niners 33-19 this year. They get by KC then they will be the favorites to win it all.