Josh officially a finalist for MVP

[JaCrispy]

I actually hope he doesn’t win so it keeps the fire lit under him…

[DCOrange]

2 hours ago, 2003Contenders said:

I guess my biggest misgiving about Lamar is that his unique talents require that a specific offense be in place to make the best use of those talents -- in terms of scheme, supporting cast, etc. Meanwhile, Josh and Mahomes both transcend any such limitations. You could literally plug either of them into any offense and be set.

He's on his 2nd or 3rd offensive scheme since entering the NFL and is about to win two MVPs under two different systems.

[KingBoots8]

2 hours ago, julian said:

Because TDs are all equally 6 points and advantageous to winning in a significant way, INTs in the other hand are not all equal and in Allen’s case specifically his INTs tend to not be of the back breaking variety 

I agree with this, and had a thought as to how to view this mathematically. Let’s say we use a “point system” where every TD is worth 6 and INTs are worth -6. I know it’s grossly exaggerated, but give me a moment to elaborate the value here:

 

Lamar had 28 TDs, and that would be +168 points gained, with 13 T/O’s equaling -78. A net gain of +90.

 

Allen had 44 TDs, good for +264, and 22 T/O’s for -132, which gives a +132 for JA17.

 

Stroud had 23 TDs +138 and 9 T/O’s, for a gain for +84.

Purdy: 31 TDs, +186, T/O’s 13 is -78 for a gain of +108

 

 

So, this obviously only works for QB’s, but JA blew the others out of the water for how much he contributed points-wise vs the others. Yeah, turnovers suck, but this should show how much value he had at his position and how important he was to winning those games.

 

I’m not saying Josh should win it, but I’m saying the Turnover argument is not strong in my opinion if you’re the one scoring so many of the points 

 

Edited January 29 by KingBoots8

[BRH]

38 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Prepare to be disappointed because he's not even on the short list for OPY. 

 

And Lamar is, which is the biggest joke.

[Warcodered]

56 minutes ago, BRH said:

 

And Lamar is, which is the biggest joke.

I figured it was mostly skill position players, which it probably is, but really Lamar is on the list for OPY, I can't even fathom how they figured that made sense. Like MVP you roll your eyes and figure it's QB and his teams record so they just pretended he led them to it but you'd think OPY would require actual offense.

Edited January 29 by Warcodered

[Niagara Dude]

On 1/25/2024 at 12:01 PM, Roundybout said:

 

Allen played well but he does not deserve MVP award

[Drew21PA]

People will complain becuase he had turnovers

 

but Josh Allen scored way more than ANYONE else 

 

no one can stop him!

[julian]

38 minutes ago, KingBoots8 said:

I agree with this, and had a thought as to how to view this mathematically. Let’s say we use a “point system” where every TD is worth 6 and INTs are worth -6. I know it’s grossly exaggerated, but give me a moment to elaborate the value here:

 

Lamar had 28 TDs, and that would be +168 points gained, with 13 T/O’s equaling -78. A net gain of +90.

 

Allen had 44 TDs, good for +264, and 22 T/O’s for -132, which gives a +132 for JA17.

 

Stroud had 23 TDs +138 and 9 T/O’s, for a gain for +84.

Purdy: 31 TDs, +186, T/O’s 13 is -78 for a gain of +108

 

 

So, this obviously only works for QB’s, but JA blew the others out of the water for how much he contributed points-wise vs the others. Yeah, turnovers suck, but this should show how much value he had at his position and how important he was to winning those games.

 

I’m not saying Josh should win it, but I’m saying the Turnover argument is not strong in my opinion if you’re they one scoring so many of the points 

 

Well done, matches what I’m seeing with my eyes and seems to be aligned with common sense.

[Drew21PA]

Present this question

 

if Mahomes had these stats Josh had ?

 

he would be unanimous mvp - not even close 

[WNYFAN1]

44 minutes ago, KingBoots8 said:

I agree with this, and had a thought as to how to view this mathematically. Let’s say we use a “point system” where every TD is worth 6 and INTs are worth -6. I know it’s grossly exaggerated, but give me a moment to elaborate the value here:

 

Lamar had 28 TDs, and that would be +168 points gained, with 13 T/O’s equaling -78. A net gain of +90.

 

Allen had 44 TDs, good for +264, and 22 T/O’s for -132, which gives a +132 for JA17.

 

Stroud had 23 TDs +138 and 9 T/O’s, for a gain for +84.

Purdy: 31 TDs, +186, T/O’s 13 is -78 for a gain of +108

 

 

So, this obviously only works for QB’s, but JA blew the others out of the water for how much he contributed points-wise vs the others. Yeah, turnovers suck, but this should show how much value he had at his position and how important he was to winning those games.

 

I’m not saying Josh should win it, but I’m saying the Turnover argument is not strong in my opinion if you’re they one scoring so many of the points 

 

So a counter-argument to Allen's touchdowns. How many of those 44 are rushing from a goal line or near goal line situation? Sure, a touchdown from one yard is worth as much as a touchdown from 20 yards, but how many teams would just send a bruising back to get that same goal line touchdown?

 

Josh had way more rushing TDs this year, but his rushing overall was down compared to the last couple of years.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

4 minutes ago, Drew21PA said:

Present this question

 

if Mahomes had these stats Josh had ?

 

he would be unanimous mvp - not even close 

 

Exactly!

 

[Drew21PA]

1 minute ago, WNYFAN1 said:

So a counter-argument to Allen's touchdowns. How many of those 44 are rushing from a goal line or near goal line situation? Sure, a touchdown from one yard is worth as much as a touchdown from 20 yards, but how many teams would just send a bruising back to get that same goal line touchdown?

 

Josh had way more rushing TDs this year, but his rushing overall was down compared to the last couple of years.

How many should you care ?  It’s football he was a machine inside there - THE MOST VALUABLE PLAYER - when trying to score ?

 

your prove the point he is unstoppable inside the redzone and should be the mvp 

[Warcodered]

16 minutes ago, WNYFAN1 said:

So a counter-argument to Allen's touchdowns. How many of those 44 are rushing from a goal line or near goal line situation? Sure, a touchdown from one yard is worth as much as a touchdown from 20 yards, but how many teams would just send a bruising back to get that same goal line touchdown?

 

Josh had way more rushing TDs this year, but his rushing overall was down compared to the last couple of years.

Somebody did the math and it really wasn't that many, he runs from further away more than people think, either way take away all of Josh's rushing TDs and he still has as many passing TDs as Lamar had total TDs in the regular season.

[LarryMadman]

52 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Allen played well but he does not deserve MVP award

Why not?

[KingBoots8]

4 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

Why not?

Because he missed that kick, obviously 🙄 😂

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, KingBoots8 said:

Because he missed that kick, obviously 🙄 😂

I mean it was only a few yards shorter than one the KC kicker made earlier in the game as an away team. 🤷‍♂️

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, Drew21PA said:

People will complain becuase he had turnovers

 

but Josh Allen scored way more than ANYONE else 

 

no one can stop him!

What happens when someone intercepts his pass?

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said:

What happens when someone intercepts his pass?

 

1 hour ago, KingBoots8 said:

I agree with this, and had a thought as to how to view this mathematically. Let’s say we use a “point system” where every TD is worth 6 and INTs are worth -6. I know it’s grossly exaggerated, but give me a moment to elaborate the value here:

 

Lamar had 28 TDs, and that would be +168 points gained, with 13 T/O’s equaling -78. A net gain of +90.

 

Allen had 44 TDs, good for +264, and 22 T/O’s for -132, which gives a +132 for JA17.

 

Stroud had 23 TDs +138 and 9 T/O’s, for a gain for +84.

Purdy: 31 TDs, +186, T/O’s 13 is -78 for a gain of +108

 

 

So, this obviously only works for QB’s, but JA blew the others out of the water for how much he contributed points-wise vs the others. Yeah, turnovers suck, but this should show how much value he had at his position and how important he was to winning those games.

 

I’m not saying Josh should win it, but I’m saying the Turnover argument is not strong in my opinion if you’re they one scoring so many of the points 

 

 

[strive_for_five_guy]

Lamar will prob win it because of timing and the buzz that was surrounding the Ravens at the end of the season (when votes were cast).  But watching the Ravens game yesterday, no doubt in my mind Ravens would have won if Allen was their QB.  Unfortunately, I’m not sure the voters think so clearly on such matters.

 

[The Jokeman]

5 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Prepare to be disappointed because he's not even on the short list for OPY. 

Yet he lead the league in TDs and tied for most ever rushing TDs by a QB in a season. Not being in the top 2 with CMC makes no freaking sense.

[Thrivefourfive]

All game, the Lamar Jackson 4 MVP mouthpieces on CBS were falling over themselves to give out the award to #8, and ignore how easy the guy is to defend and how terrible he was playing. Look at ‘im go!

[jaybills]

CMC is my vote. Most consistent player. 

[MphsBillsfan]

16 hours ago, WNYFAN1 said:

So a counter-argument to Allen's touchdowns. How many of those 44 are rushing from a goal line or near goal line situation? Sure, a touchdown from one yard is worth as much as a touchdown from 20 yards, but how many teams would just send a bruising back to get that same goal line touchdown?

 

Josh had way more rushing TDs this year, but his rushing overall was down compared to the last couple of years.

Every QB that was in that position could have tried for a rushing TD,  but didn't/couldn't.   That's what sets Josh apart; he made the TD's.

I vote for a write-in with co-mvp's...

Travis and Taylor. JK. 😫 

[May Day 10]

18 minutes ago, jaybills said:

CMC is my vote. Most consistent player. 

 

If Derrick Henry wasn't given the award for his other-worldly 2,000 yard season in 2020, I don't think they will ever consider a running back.  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

16 hours ago, WNYFAN1 said:

So a counter-argument to Allen's touchdowns. How many of those 44 are rushing from a goal line or near goal line situation? Sure, a touchdown from one yard is worth as much as a touchdown from 20 yards, but how many teams would just send a bruising back to get that same goal line touchdown?

 

Josh had way more rushing TDs this year, but his rushing overall was down compared to the last couple of years.

 

He had 8 total from the 3-1 yards out. One from the 3 yd line, two from 2 yd line and 5 from the 1 yd line.

 

For whatever reason, 5 out of the 8 rushing TD's scored, and his final 5 rushing TD's scored on the year were all from the 3 yard line and in, and all came in the final 5 games of the year. Up until the Dallas game Allen's 10 rushing TD's on the year were from an average distance of 8 yards out. 

 

An argument to your counter-argument, does a RB who scores 20+ TD's on the year ever get dinged for the TD's they scored inside the 3 yard line?  I've never heard of discounting a RB's goal line rushing TD's as a thing. 

[Matt_In_NH]

Just now, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

He had 8 total from the 3-1 yards out. One from the 3 yd line, two from 2 yd line and 5 from the 1 yd line.

 

I can see dinging him for the QB sneaks to a degree, many made that argument for Hurts and it makes some sense.   Anything more than 1 yard though I think are fine to give him more credit on.  He is hard to defend because he can pass or run, I would not ding him when he scrambles and gets in or has a designed run that is not a sneak.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 

I can see dinging him for the QB sneaks to a degree, many made that argument for Hurts and it makes some sense.   Anything more than 1 yard though I think are fine to give him more credit on.  He is hard to defend because he can pass or run, I would not ding him when he scrambles and gets in or has a designed run that is not a sneak.

 

Bills started to go push tush heavy the final 5 games of the year. Of Allen's final 5 rushing TD's on the season, 3 or 4 of them may have been tush pushes. Before that majority of Allen's rushing TD's were well outside the 5 yard line on average. 

[stevewin]

22 hours ago, julian said:

Because TDs are all equally 6 points and advantageous to winning in a significant way, INTs in the other hand are not all equal and in Allen’s case specifically his INTs tend to not be of the back breaking variety 

Really wish there was some kind of next gen stat for ints that factored in context.  Remove hail mary's, balls that aren't the QBs fault (bounce off chest/hands of receiver etc) - and this wouldn't even count more subjective like the receiver ran wrong route etc.  I would bet Josh's 'adjusted' int total would further debunk the 'turnover machine' narrative.

Edited January 30 by stevewin

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, jaybills said:

CMC is my vote. Most consistent player. 

And he won't embarrass the voters with his playoff performances.

 

 

[Warcodered]