Is Brady coaching for his job?

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Fortunately I stocked up on OC killing pitchforks when the market was down post-Dorsey.........and will have kiosks ready to go post game this Sunday!

 

[dma0034]

I still want McD fired and an Offensive Coach brought in. I like Ben Johnson and Monken and then, I know a lot of people wouldn't like it but, I'd go after someone like Jim Harbaugh if I couldn't get those coaches.

[97bills]

1 hour ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I would take a look at bienemy if he's let go by the commanders or frank Reich as OC

Yes to frank reich, I think Allen needs a vet coach, someone that can scheme up plays and players for different games, and hold Allen accountable!!! 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

The offense is worse with Brady than it was with Dorsey. Take away the great running game against Dallas and the offense is worse. Josh and the pass game is a disaster.

It's time to blow it up and bring in someone new. They need an entire new offense. The league has figured us out. Only Josh being super human gives us a chance to win.

We are stuck with McDermott but honestly Beane should pick the next OC. McDermott has shown he doesn't know what he is doing.

[PBF81]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dorseys final 6 games and Bradys first 6 games the offense is averaging 8 points more per game.  That is a massive difference in the NFL in scoring very difficult to achieve even with an entire offseason to overhaul an offense.  To pretend like the offense isn't significantly better over what Dorsey's offense had become is laughable.  

 

Sure, Dorsey's offense SKEWED its season total because of 2 1/2 games of football (2nd half week 2, week 3, and week 4) against bad defenses...but then it fell off a cliff never to recover.  Dorsey led offense lost to BOTH Zac Wilson and Mac Jones in the same season.  Dorsey led offense was 1-2 vs the Jets (both losses to Zac Wilson) and avg 17 ppg in those 3 games while Brady's first game against the same team scored 32 and benched its starters for almost the entire 4th quarter in a blow out or we would have probably scored 48+.  

 

Dorsey over his final 6 games was 2-4 and we got lucky on final play of both wins to not be 0-6 during the weak part of our schedule because the offense only averaged a pathetic 20 ppg.  Since then, we are 5-1 and should be 6-0 (not Brady's fault) becasue even when the offense has some sputters he finds ways to still get points on the board using the run game and Allens legs...something Dorsey couldn't manage to do even when 3rd and goal from the 6" line where instead of sneaking Allen he twice ran out of shotgun to lose yards in back to back games.  

 

Dorsey was a major problem, to pretend he wasn't tells me that person is just rooted in being negative about all Bills decisions.  We went from 11th seed and out of playoffs to playing for the division title and #2 seed in 6 games of Brady taking over the offense in the hardest stretch of our schedule in the NFL against multiple legit defenses. 

 

I think that our D has a little something to do with our losses against Jax, NE, Cincy, and Denver.  If you think otherwise, great.  Agree to disagree.  

 

Otherwise, under Dorsey, our offense is averaging about a half-point less than it did all last season under Dorsey.  
 

Our yardage, 1st-Down generation, particularly in our more important last two games, and scoring, is not significantly different from all of last season or Dorsey's full compliment of 10 games.  

It's funny how that when one points out trends, things like Dorsey's first bunch of games are discounted, the play of our D is heavily discounted, and there's little consideration for a downward spiral of a trend.  

 

But never fear, Brady's got all the opportunity in the world to show how great he is @ Miami and in the playoffs.  Doesn't he.   

 

 

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Rubes said:

 

Brady has always been coaching for his job. He's interim, its not like he's assured the spot for next year. He knows he has to produce every week.

 

 

 

I can say with confidence that this is NOT exactly what McDermott wants. I'm sure he would like a run-heavy offense like we saw against Dallas, but not what we've seen the last couple of weeks. If he wants a run-heavy offense, it's to take the pressure off of Allen and allow him to use play action better and to be more productive with the receivers when he does throw. We're not seeing that, at least not yet. I can't imagine this is what McDermott wants...he wants this, but with a better, more opportunistic passing game.

 

They ran a lot on 1st and 2nd downs yesterday and then tried to pass on 3rd down.  Run game was not very good yesterday and that was expected against the #1 rush defense in the league

[97bills]

18 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

I’d start with more under center play action. 

I’m starting to think is that an Allen thing, that he doesn’t like being under center. It’s hard to believe 3 OC now don’t put him under center that much. Just a guess. 

[ProcessTruster]

1 hour ago, QLBillsFan said:

At some point the players have to execute. JA with multiple in accurate throws, several drops, poor OL play. Not all on the OC with either guy. I would be surprised if Brady is not back win or lose. 

yeah, offensive misfires are pretty much 100% execution errors Josh or WRs screwing up in passing game

[FireChans]

36 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

So yesterday's win was a "Brady thing" then? 

 

In games vs. KC Love on Green Bay played a much better game than Allen did, and Zappe played at least an equally good if not better game against them in weeks before and after we did.  

 

Wins over the Jets and Chargers are hardly impressive, and Dallas is clearly in a slump, averaging not even 17 ppg over the past three weeks.  

 

The point is how well the offense has played, not wins based upon anything including five games with positive TO margins, which has little to do with Brady.  

 

 

 complementary football my man

[Dr. Who]

You can't really get a read on what Brady would be as an OC, since he is going to have to work with what Dorsey installed. There's also the problem of our subpar WR room, which any coordinator would have to deal with. Beane needs to make upgrading WR talent priority number 1, and 2, and maybe 3, though no doubt S and youth on the DL will continue to be the predilection of this regime (those are concerns.) If we beat Miami and make an extended run for the SB, that will no doubt weigh in his favor. Short of a SB victory, which would assure his position, I hope there is a genuine process of looking at qualified candidates.

[Alphadawg7]

21 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I think that our D has a little something to do with our losses against Jax, NE, Cincy, and Denver.  If you think otherwise, great.  Agree to disagree.  

 

Otherwise, under Dorsey, our offense is averaging about a half-point less than it did all last season under Dorsey.  
 

Our yardage, 1st-Down generation, particularly in our more important last two games, and scoring, is not significantly different from all of last season or Dorsey's full compliment of 10 games.  

It's funny how that when one points out trends, things like Dorsey's first bunch of games are discounted, the play of our D is heavily discounted, and there's little consideration for a downward spiral of a trend.  

 

But never fear, Brady's got all the opportunity in the world to show how great he is @ Miami and in the playoffs.  Doesn't he.   

 

 

 

Dorseys season totals are skewed from 3 games of football, I have told you this, but you choose to ignore it.  The offense was atrocious in the other 7 games of football played under Dorsey this season.  Week 1 and weeks 5 through his firing the offense was bad and averaged under 20 ppg. 

 

I don't care about 3 games weeks 2-4 against bad defenses and mostly bad teams.  I care about the BULK of the season where the offense averaged less than 20 PPG and was 2-5 in those 7 games and had us out of the playoffs.

 

You want to play make believe and pretend his "season total averages" are the real offense, then go ahead.  But those numbers did NOT reflect at all how the team was really playing for 6 straight weeks as it played itself out of the playoffs until he was fired and the offense majorly improved to 28 PPG against harder defenses and the toughest part of our schedule.  

 

There isn't a single fact that can be presented that remotely suggests Dorsey should have kept his job over Brady.  

Edited January 1 by Alphadawg7

[PayDaBill$]

Brady’s working within the framework of the playbook he was left.  It’s hard to get a read on what he would do on his own. Plus don’t forget McD really wants to run & control the ball to help his D.  I’m not sure how much leyway yet another OC would get with McD still running the show.

This team is still exhibiting some of the same issues we saw pre Brady.  We lack consistency on both sides of the ball.

 

 

 

Edited January 1 by PayDaBill$

[Max Fischer]

Yes, and I'm not totally sold.  

[PBF81]

13 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 complementary football my man

 

Well, it would appear that that "complimentary football" offense is minimizing Allen, Diggs, & Co. to make the defense and McD shine.  Many would suggest that that's a huge part of the problem, particularly considering that our D seems to take a vacation once the playoffs begin, being among the worst playoff Ds in the league under McD.  

 

If the goal is a Championship/Lombardi, that's one thing.  If it's to make McD look good, entirely another.  

 

Just sayin'.  

 

 

13 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dorseys season totals are skewed from 3 games of football, I have told you this, but you choose to ignore it.  The offense was atrocious in the other 7 games of football played under Dorsey this season.  Week 1 and weeks 5 through his firing the offense was bad and averaged under 20 ppg. 

 

I don't care about 3 games weeks 2-4 against bad defenses and mostly bad teams.  I care about the BULK of the season where the offense averaged less than 20 PPG and was 2-5 in those 7 games and had us out of the playoffs.

 

You want to play make believe and pretend his "season total averages" are the real offense, then go ahead.  But those numbers did NOT reflect at all how the team was really playing for 6 straight weeks as it played itself out of the playoffs until he was fired and the offense majorly improved to 28 PPG against harder defenses and the toughest part of our schedule.  

 

There isn't a single fact that can be presented that remotely suggests Dorsey should have kept his job over Brady.  

 

Great, so if he's as good as you're implying, then we can all look forward to the explosive offensive performances that this team is capable of with Allen, Diggs, Cook, Kincaid, Davis, Shakir and the OL in the league with the fewest (zero) significant injuries to it of any team in the league.  

 

 

Edited January 1 by PBF81

[BuffaloBill]

Have o remember this is still Dorsey’s offense as Brady can’t install a whole new system midseason. 
 

I don’t know if Brady is the answer but he has done better than Dorsey. 

[BananaB]

100% he is. Bills should be on the phone with Reich planting a seed for next year as well. Brady has been alright but if you can get better you go for it. 

[BADOLBILZ]

42 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

I still want McD fired and an Offensive Coach brought in. I like Ben Johnson and Monken and then, I know a lot of people wouldn't like it but, I'd go after someone like Jim Harbaugh if I couldn't get those coaches.

 

 

Obviously,  McD not getting fired.

 

But for the people who look to the college ranks for an offensive minded HC...........Harbaugh is more defensive minded than he is offensive minded.    

 

The college HC who warrants looks is probably Lane Kiffen.   He's in his prime,  is with a good program but not one that can expect to recruit in the top 10 every season or have NIL money like the teams he is competing with.........so he might be poachable........and has been an NFL HC for the Raiders(briefly) and is a creative offensive mind.

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, it would appear that that "complimentary football" offense is minimizing Allen, Diggs, & Co. to make the defense and McD shine.  Many would suggest that that's a huge part of the problem, particularly considering that our D seems to take a vacation once the playoffs begin, being among the worst playoff Ds in the league under McD.  

 

If the goal is a Championship/Lombardi, that's one thing.  If it's to make McD look good, entirely another.  

 

Just sayin'.  

 

 

 

Great, so if he's as good as you're implying, then we can all look forward to the explosive offensive performances that this team is capable of with Allen, Diggs, Cook, Kincaid, Davis, Shakir and the OL in the league with the fewest (zero) significant injuries to it of any team in the league.  

 

 

This is just completely off the reservation lol

[Beast]

At the end of the season we’ll know if he’s the answer moving forward.

[dma0034]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Obviously,  McD not getting fired.

 

But for the people who look to the college ranks for an offensive minded HC...........Harbaugh is more defensive minded than he is offensive minded.    

 

The college HC who warrants looks is probably Lane Kiffen.   He's in his prime,  is with a good program but not one that can expect to recruit in the top 10 every season or have NIL money like the teams he is competing with.........so he might be poachable........and has been an NFL HC for the Raiders(briefly) and is a creative offensive mind.

 

 

I want nothing to do with Lane Kiffen. I don't care if he is an Offensive guru he's a clown

[Nextmanup]

He probably is playing for his career.  I doubt the job is his already.

 

Who knows, they may know right now he will NOT be the permanent OC....but you would think everything he does is getting judged.

 

Just remember, he is working with another guy's offense and can't really do his own thing in the middle of the season.

 

So he is calling plays with one arm tied behind his back.

 

I hope they scour the entire NFL looking for a replacement; I'm sure we can find someone better.

 

 

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

This is just completely off the reservation lol

 

What's off the reservation is merely saying "complimentary football" while ignoring any details or supporting it in any way.  

 

It's difficult to have a rational conversation that way and just throwing cliched terms out there leaves people to have to guess what you're attempting to say.  

 

Just sayin'.  

 

Either way, who cares.  If you believe all that, then great.  We should be fine for a Championship.  

 

If not, many if not most will strongly be "suggesting" some changes.  LOL 

 

This really isn't that important.  

 

Point are points and other metrics are other metrics.  If everything is boiled down to simply wins, great, but let's maintain that standard then from now on out until the season's over.  

 

It should be tremendously concerning however that Diggs, in his prime, has averaged 38 yards per game under Brady, and only one TD.  

 

 

Edited January 1 by PBF81

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

 

 

I want nothing to do with Lane Kiffen. I don't care if he is an Offensive guru he's a clown

 

 

Yeah I know we have a few still-bitter Tennessee fans here............but Pete Carroll was a clown too when he was a young HC with the Jets.........and he went on to win titles in CFB and the NFL.

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah I know we have a few still-bitter Tennessee fans here............but Pete Carroll was a clown too when he was a young HC with the Jets.........and he went on to win titles in CFB and the NFL.

He's an interesting choice. Pegula doesn't have the imagination to entertain it, and he's not going to move off McDermott unless he is going to lose Josh Allen by sticking with him.

[BillsFan4]

If the Bills want to stick with something like Daboll’s offense, and if Brady doesn’t get the job (which I would hope isn’t a foregone conclusion after the last few weeks), what about Josh McDaniels?

 

We know he sucks as a head coach but he was a damn good OC with the patriots.

[Neo]

2 hours ago, whorlnut said:

After the eagles game, many (including myself) were satisfied enough to declare Brady the OC next year if McD stays. I think after what we saw under Dorsey, any semblance of an nfl offense was a welcome sight so we may have jumped the gun in what Brady was capable of. Now?  Well…this offense is a mess. Allen and the receivers are way off…Diggs is a non factor since Brady took over…we are running Murray up the guy on third and 1 instead of letting our hulking qb dive over the top to move the chains, etc. 

 

Could Joe Brady be coaching for his job today this week? I’m not saying he won’t be the guy next year either way, but the job might come open if we lose and miss the playoffs. We have way too much in a franchise qb to be wasting him with ineffective coaching. I’d rather open up the HC position in favor of an offensive mind, but we all know that’s not likely to happen. 
 

What say you?

Appreciate the thought starter.

 

I think Brady, and all of us, are auditioning day after day after day.   I know you get more short term leeway when you have long term excellence.   Brady’s not there, of course.

 

So yes, he’s coaching for his job.   He’s also interviewing for his next one.   He will be for the next several years.

[FireChans]

32 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

What's off the reservation is merely saying "complimentary football" while ignoring any details or supporting it in any way.  

 

It's difficult to have a rational conversation that way and just throwing cliched terms out there leaves people to have to guess what you're attempting to say.  

 

Just sayin'.  

 

Either way, who cares.  If you believe all that, then great.  We should be fine for a Championship.  

 

If not, many if not most will strongly be "suggesting" some changes.  LOL 

 

This really isn't that important.  

 

Point are points and other metrics are other metrics.  If everything is boiled down to simply wins, great, but let's maintain that standard then from now on out until the season's over.  

 

It should be tremendously concerning however that Diggs, in his prime, has averaged 38 yards per game under Brady, and only one TD.  

 

 

We can keep the same standard. They lost 1 game since switching OC’s. They went from dead in the water to potentially the 2 seed.
 

That’s good.

 

Whats insane is to suggest they are trying to “prop up the defense and make McD look good” and somehow, out of pure luck, that’s also resulted in them WINNING GAMES.

 

Aw gee, that pesky Sean McDermott is at it again, trying to look god and win games. What a bad coach. 

[PBF81]

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

We can keep the same standard. They lost 1 game since switching OC’s. They went from dead in the water to potentially the 2 seed.
 

That’s good.

 

Whats insane is to suggest they are trying to “prop up the defense and make McD look good” and somehow, out of pure luck, that’s also resulted in them WINNING GAMES.

 

Aw gee, that pesky Sean McDermott is at it again, trying to look god and win games. What a bad coach. 

 

Well, then define "complimentary football" as you used it, particularly in the context of the discussion at that point, which was diminished offensive production?  

 

If you cannot do that, then nothing that you laid out makes much sense.  

 

 

[jethro_tull]

The past two games have given me pause about Brady...   hate to say it but the play calling is becoming more predictable, Allen is frustrated at times and the points are not materializing as they should be.  

Some decent calls yesterday but not enough of them.  

Jury is out and if they can get a bonafide OC I say go for it.  

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, then define "complimentary football" as you used it, particularly in the context of the discussion at that point, which was diminished offensive production?  

 

If you cannot do that, then nothing that you laid out makes much sense.  

 

 

Bills have won time of possession in 5 out of their last 6 games. The only game they didn't, they won anyway (Chargers). They had greater than 10 min lead in ToP in 3/6.

 

Since the Dolphins game (when Dorsey's offense fell off a cliff), they lost the ToP battle by 17 minutes to Jacksonville, by 3 minutes to the Giants, 13 minutes to the Bengals, 15 minutes to the Broncos.

 

And would you look at that, 1-3 in those games.

 

Pesky McD again, he would rather go 5-1 than 1-3.

 

 

[Maine-iac]

I'm sorry but I have to give Brady props.  Sure the passing game isn't lighting it up.  Defenses are playing the pass and it's the players more than the scheme that isn't working.  That said the fact that he is smart enough to lean on the running game and creating enough offense to score some points and keep our defense from being on the field all game I think is the difference between a Brady win and a Dorsey loss.  No offense to Allen (and not that it's all his fault) but if we throw 50 times a game over the last 5 games I'm not sure we win 4 out of 5.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dorseys season totals are skewed from 3 games of football, I have told you this, but you choose to ignore it.  The offense was atrocious in the other 7 games of football played under Dorsey this season.  Week 1 and weeks 5 through his firing the offense was bad and averaged under 20 ppg. 

 

I don't care about 3 games weeks 2-4 against bad defenses and mostly bad teams.  I care about the BULK of the season where the offense averaged less than 20 PPG and was 2-5 in those 7 games and had us out of the playoffs.

 

You want to play make believe and pretend his "season total averages" are the real offense, then go ahead.  But those numbers did NOT reflect at all how the team was really playing for 6 straight weeks as it played itself out of the playoffs until he was fired and the offense majorly improved to 28 PPG against harder defenses and the toughest part of our schedule.  

 

There isn't a single fact that can be presented that remotely suggests Dorsey should have kept his job over Brady.  

 

The Bills offense finished 2022 averaging 30 points per game over the last 9 games prior to the Bengals playoff loss.    But the fan narrative all offseason was that Dorsey sucked.   

 

I've said it before,  I don't think Dorsey was some special offensive mind and I didn't have any problem firing him to light a fire under the offense with the season spinning out of control...............but Dorsey was plenty capable and contrary to popular belief he had proven a number of times that he could adapt game plans for opponents.

 

Brady hasn't proven to be as good on the whole.........the only improvement that's been consistently effective for him has been using Allen like a RB to extend drives.    Again.   Like they have every year since 2020 as the regular season has wound down and they chased home field and/or mere playoff qualification.   Dorsey could have and would have been using Allen in the same way.........but Dorsey had closed 2022 a lot better than Brady has 2023.

 

Basically,  it hasn't been a particularly auspicious debut for Joe Brady as Bills OC.

Edited January 1 by BADOLBILZ

[PBF81]

33 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Bills have won time of possession in 5 out of their last 6 games. The only game they didn't, they won anyway (Chargers). They had greater than 10 min lead in ToP in 3/6.

 

Since the Dolphins game (when Dorsey's offense fell off a cliff), they lost the ToP battle by 17 minutes to Jacksonville, by 3 minutes to the Giants, 13 minutes to the Bengals, 15 minutes to the Broncos.

 

And would you look at that, 1-3 in those games.

 

Pesky McD again, he would rather go 5-1 than 1-3.

 

 

 

Feel free to add the required details to actually make that a legitimate argument.  

 

Otherwise, so you're implicitly stating that "complimentary football" means a positive time-of-possession then?  Be clear here.  

 

And otherwise, using simply the Chargers game as an example, with no one on the field offensively for them of any consequence, they managed to hold us to 52 plays, 13 below our average, while we allowed them 65 plays, 5 plays more than our average.  

 

We won.  So you're insisting that running few plays, what, helped us win?  Our time-of-possession in that game was about 27 min.  

 

It could also be that we're 5-1 in the last six because three of the teams we played and beat had QBs like Stick, Wilson, and Zappe and are a combined 15-33, on three teams among those with the worst 8 records in the league.  

 

Call me crazy.  LOL. 

 

 

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Feel free to add the required details to actually make that a legitimate argument.  

 

Otherwise, so you're implicitly stating that "complimentary football" means a positive time-of-possession then?  Be clear here.  

 

And otherwise, using simply the Chargers game as an example, with no one on the field offensively for them of any consequence, they managed to hold us to 52 plays, 13 below our average, while we allowed them 65 plays, 5 plays more than our average.  

 

We won.  So you're insisting that running few plays, what, helped us win?  Our time-of-possession in that game was about 27 min.  

 

It could also be that we're 5-1 in the last six because three of the teams we played and beat had QBs like Stick, Wilson, and Zappe and are a combined 15-33, on three teams among those with the worst 8 records in the league.  

 

Call me crazy.  LOL. 

 

 

We lost to Russ, Wilson and Mac Jones with Kenny boy.  Try again.

 

I actually didn't use the Chargers game as an example, because we didn't win the ToP battle in that game.  You missed me calling it the exception in your haste to come up with some straw to grasp lmao.

 

Enjoy the ride. #2 seed and McD is coach for life.

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I would take a look at bienemy if he's let go by the commanders or frank Reich as OC

 

I wouldn't hire Reich. 

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

No playoffs and McD has to go. No doubt about it. 

Any chance (if there was any) of a McD firing at season's end was squashed with another double digit win season despite the injuries on defense.  Doesn't matter what happens the rest of the way this year.  His decision on what to do with the offense going into next year will pry decide his eventual fate.

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I wouldn't hire Reich. 

He'd be a great QB coach for Josh if he's desperate for work.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

 

He'd be a great QB coach for Josh if he's desperate for work.

 

Based on what?

[Big Turk]

I am starting to have the opinion that we have taken the Daboll style offense as far as we can and saw it at it's peak in 2020 when we just were obliterating teams every week it seemed.

 

Maybe we just need to add complimentary pieces back into it to unlock it's potential...we don't really have anyone filling in the John Brown field stretching role at all.

 

That definitely hurts in terms of creating separation and allowing defenses to compress the field somewhat against us. Brown used to be wide open on those comeback routes at least 3-4 times a game.

 

So either we need to upgrade the weapons outside Diggs, although I really like Shakir and what I think will be another big step forward for the Bills in the slot next year, or we need to change offenses to better use what we have because I don't feel we are maximizing the potential of what we currently have offensively.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah I know we have a few still-bitter Tennessee fans here............but Pete Carroll was a clown too when he was a young HC with the Jets.........and he went on to win titles in CFB and the NFL.

 

I have zero college football affiliation and I wouldn't hire Lane Kiffin. I just don't think he has the character to be an NFL Head Coach. I think he understands the Xs and Os well enough. I don't think he understands people well enough.

[Don Otreply]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Based on what?

Oh sure, ask a concise question…

 

 

 

yes I have gone down the road of one martini is too few, two is to many, and three is just fine…,