ESPN/Barnwell’s All-Pro teams (find the one Bill)

[boyst]

Oliver and Ferguson are the only all pros

[PBF81]

9 hours ago, BRH said:

McD should be coach of the year if he gets the team to a #2 seed with this little talent.  🤣

 

He might be COTY if we had the 1st Seed locked up.  The only reason why we're in it for the 2nd Seed, is because the AFCS and AFCW are as weak as they've been in years.  

 

 

[boyst]

18 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

He might be COTY if we had the 1st Seed locked up.  The only reason why we're in it for the 2nd Seed, is because the AFCS and AFCW are as weak as they've been in years.  

 

 

What's absolutely insane is looking at the NFC. They have so many in the middle 8-8 teams and below but everyone swear the NFC is dominant 

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, boyst said:

What's absolutely insane is looking at the NFC. They have so many in the middle 8-8 teams and below but everyone swear the NFC is dominant 

 

Weird year for sure.  Look at the South divisions.  LOL. 6 of the 8 teams 7-9 to 9-7.  Only SF and KC as double-digit win teams in the West divisions, KC barely.  It was obvious that this was going to be a much rougher year for KC.  

 

As to the NFC, hasn't it always just been the Eagles, Dallas, and Niners this season though?  Both Dallas and Philly appear to be folding late in the season.  Neither has any significant momentum going into the playoffs.  

 

This is one of those seasons that seems to illustrate the "parity" of the league.  

 

What do you think are the two best teams from each conference?  

 

 

[Sierra Foothills]

10 hours ago, Yobogoya! said:

I can't say a guy's just being a hater if he puts Trent Williams and Tyron Smith ahead of Dion.

Problem with Tryon is he’s only played 12 games. I think Trent has missed games too. 

[RyanC883]

Bernard and Oliver should be on any list. 

Edited January 2 by RyanC883

[BarleyNY]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39216134/nfl-all-pro-team-2023-barnwell-50-best-players-every-position

 

Here is a link. I can quibble about whether some players should be first vs. second team, but the selections are very difficult to argue with overall. Certainly a case can be made for Allen over Purdy, but Purdy is a defensible selection as #2. But that's it. We have some very good players who have done well this season, but not top 4. Oliver has been very good, but he was not a top 4 DT in the league. Ditto Douglas at CB and Cook at RB.

Edited January 2 by BarleyNY

[Don Otreply]

That’s it! Get somebody to hamstring his azs asap…, that and those Azs holes at pff…,

 

 

 

😂

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Am I wrong in thinking Lamar has no chance in being named a first team all-pro QB this year? 

 

Yes, he'll likely win the MVP but that is an entirely different award. An award that has almost as much to do with team success as actual individual dominance on the field. I see all three of Dak, Purdy and Allen having better chances of being named all-pro QB's this year. 

[LeGOATski]

3 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39216134/nfl-all-pro-team-2023-barnwell-50-best-players-every-position

 

Here is a link. I can quibble about whether some players should be first vs. second team, but the selections are very difficult to argue with overall. Certainly a case can be made for Allen over Purdy, but Purdy is a defensible selection as #2. But that's it. We have some very good players who have done well this season, but not top 4. Oliver has been very good, but he was not a top 4 DT in the league. Ditto Douglas at CB and Cook at RB.

Purdy is indefensible. He's an average QB. All Pro team should be superstars. Purdy can be in the Pro Bowl.

[BarleyNY]

6 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Purdy is indefensible. He's an average QB. All Pro team should be superstars. Purdy can be in the Pro Bowl.

Saying Purdy isn’t too 2 would be reasonable, but calling him average is ridiculous. He’s first or near the top of every meaningful statistical category. Sure, Shanahan is an offensive genius, but no other QB has done this in his system. I’m not sure how much more you could ask of your QB. 

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Saying Purdy isn’t too 2 would be reasonable, but calling him average is ridiculous. He’s first or near the top of every meaningful statistical category. Sure, Shanahan is an offensive genius, but no other QB has done this in his system. I’m not sure how much more you could ask of your QB. 

 

6 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Purdy is indefensible. He's an average QB. All Pro team should be superstars. Purdy can be in the Pro Bowl.

He might be an average QB if he played for the cardinals or patriots. 

 

But he’s not- he’s on SF and played at a level far above average.  The awards are given out based on how you actually played-  not how you would have played on a different team.  

[BarleyNY]

7 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Am I wrong in thinking Lamar has no chance in being named a first team all-pro QB this year? 

 

Yes, he'll likely win the MVP but that is an entirely different award. An award that has almost as much to do with team success as actual individual dominance on the field. I see all three of Dak, Purdy and Allen having better chances of being named all-pro QB's this year. 

I think that Allen’s chances improve dramatically if the Bills get the number two seed. Still, I think it’ll be Lamar and Purdy for first and second All-Pro. Their teams having the number one seeds being the easy tiebreaker. 

[John from Riverside]

Bernard should at least get a mention

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

I think that Allen’s chances improve dramatically if the Bills get the number two seed. Still, I think it’ll be Lamar and Purdy for first and second All-Pro. Their teams having the number one seeds being the easy tiebreaker. 

 

Isn't all-pro mostly a stats award though? Lamar even with having been playing better these last few weeks is still behind a few of the QB's in both efficiency and total numbers. In the past MVP and all pro QB's have usually aligned but that's also been because the MVP's of recent memory have also happened to clearly lead the league in yards, TD's and efficiency for the most part. 

[JerseyBills]

Oliver, Dawkins and Rasul should have a chance irl

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Isn't all-pro mostly a stats award though? Lamar even with having been playing better these last few weeks is still behind a few of the QB's in both efficiency and total numbers. In the past MVP and all pro QB's have usually aligned but that's also been because the MVP's of recent memory have also happened to clearly lead the league in yards, TD's and efficiency for the most part. 

It’s voted on by a panel of nfl media. 

[blitzboy54]

Bill Barnwell is a caricature of a football analytics sportswriter.   

Edited January 2 by blitzboy54

[LeGOATski]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

 

He might be an average QB if he played for the cardinals or patriots. 

 

But he’s not- he’s on SF and played at a level far above average.  The awards are given out based on how you actually played-  not how you would have played on a different team.  

It's too reliant on stats. Purdy has great stats. That doesn't make him an All Pro calibre player in my mind, but I understand why it gets him the votes.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

35 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It’s voted on by a panel of nfl media. 

 

I believe they are the same as the MVP voters correct? 

[NewEra]

22 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

It's too reliant on stats. Purdy has great stats. That doesn't make him an All Pro calibre player in my mind, but I understand why it gets him the votes.

Just wondering- how many games did you watch Purdy play this year?  He was dropping dimes all over the field all season.  His yard per attempt is one of the best in league history and dwarfs all the other QBs this year. He was great in the pocket with vet like awareness.  He made a lot more great throws during the season than our all world QB Josh Allen did.  In a season in which there weren’t any great QBs, he’s worthy this season imo.  

 

If Josh would’ve finished strong and had good games vs LAC and the pats, I would’ve given it to him over Purdy- but he didn’t.  He didn’t look good at all.  Dak collapsed. Tua is collapsing.  Hurts collapsed.  The only other guys that might’ve been worthy are Stafford and Goff.  Stroud may have gotten 2nd team if he wouldn’t have gotten concussed. 

 

 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Ed Oliver and Dion Dawkins are both worthy. 

[Captain_Quint]

That is about right. No way Allen or  Diggs. 

 

Honorable mentions: Johnson, Oliver, maybe a mention for Bernard or Dawkins. 

 

 

[BarleyNY]

18 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Isn't all-pro mostly a stats award though? Lamar even with having been playing better these last few weeks is still behind a few of the QB's in both efficiency and total numbers. In the past MVP and all pro QB's have usually aligned but that's also been because the MVP's of recent memory have also happened to clearly lead the league in yards, TD's and efficiency for the most part. 

 

I just checked the Vegas odds and Lamar is a huge favorite at -10000. Dak is second at +1800, Purdy is third at +2500 and Lawrence and Allen are tied for fourth at +3000. 

 

https://www.foxsports.com/articles/nfl/2023-24-nfl-mvp-odds-and-favorites

 

Stats definitely play a part, but it usually goes to the combination of the best QB on the best team. So it isn’t surprising that the QBs of the two #1 seeded teams are first and (almost) second. 

Edited January 3 by BarleyNY

[DrDawkinstein]

44 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Ed Oliver and Dion Dawkins are both worthy. 

 

Both are worthy, but both play high-profile positions with lots of big names ahead of them. Bummer.

[DCOrange]

13 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Am I wrong in thinking Lamar has no chance in being named a first team all-pro QB this year? 

 

Yes, he'll likely win the MVP but that is an entirely different award. An award that has almost as much to do with team success as actual individual dominance on the field. I see all three of Dak, Purdy and Allen having better chances of being named all-pro QB's this year. 

I gave up once I hit the 1980s, but I'm not sure an MVP QB has ever failed to make first team All Pro.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

18 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Both are worthy, but both play high-profile positions with lots of big names ahead of them. Bummer.

Going to look weird when the number 2 seed in the AFC ends up with one second teamer. Also, Tyron Smith and Aaron Donald are rep. picks IMO.

[JohnNord]

On 1/1/2024 at 9:50 AM, Doc said:

Barnwell's a clown.  Always has been, always will be.

 

Edit:  This has nothing to do with his All-Pro list, BTW

I’ve never liked him and roll my eyes when people try to cite him as someone that’s credible 

[LeGOATski]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

Just wondering- how many games did you watch Purdy play this year?  He was dropping dimes all over the field all season.  His yard per attempt is one of the best in league history and dwarfs all the other QBs this year. He was great in the pocket with vet like awareness.  He made a lot more great throws during the season than our all world QB Josh Allen did.  In a season in which there weren’t any great QBs, he’s worthy this season imo.  

 

If Josh would’ve finished strong and had good games vs LAC and the pats, I would’ve given it to him over Purdy- but he didn’t.  He didn’t look good at all.  Dak collapsed. Tua is collapsing.  Hurts collapsed.  The only other guys that might’ve been worthy are Stafford and Goff.  Stroud may have gotten 2nd team if he wouldn’t have gotten concussed. 

 

 

I watch all the games. Purdy's nothing special. Throws to a ton of wide open guys. Stroud I can agree is an All Pro calibre player if healthy.

 

If Purdy is All Pro, go ahead and make Tua, Goff, Dak, etc All Pros....just a bunch of meh

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I watch all the games. Purdy's nothing special. Throws to a ton of wide open guys. Stroud I can agree is an All Pro calibre player if healthy.

 

If Purdy is All Pro, go ahead and make Tua, Goff, Dak, etc All Pros....just a bunch of meh

If you’ve watched every niner game, I don’t see how you’re not giving him any credit here.  I’ve watched pretty much every niner game for the last 10+ years-  He did more than just hit wide open WRs.  

 

All-Pro is reserved for the best players of THAT season.  It’s not reserved for former all pros that are considered elite.  It was a poor year for QBs- Purdy was better than most this season. 
 

I wouldn’t label him elite either, but compared to the other QBs this season, he was top 3 if not 2.

[LeGOATski]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

If you’ve watched every niner game, I don’t see how you’re not giving him any credit here.  I’ve watched pretty much every niner game for the last 10+ years-  He did more than just hit wide open WRs.  

 

All-Pro is reserved for the best players of THAT season.  It’s not reserved for former all pros that are considered elite.  It was a poor year for QBs- Purdy was better than most this season. 
 

I wouldn’t label him elite either, but compared to the other QBs this season, he was top 3 if not 2.

Meh, put him in the Pro Bowl. Like you said, a lot of other QBs are having off years, yet they're still producing more yards and/or TDs than Purdy. He's just in a great system that makes QBs look far better than they really are. The two guys at the top of pass yards, Completion %, and yds/attempt are.......Tua and Purdy. Both in the same system, and both just average players, not All Pro quality.

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Meh, put him in the Pro Bowl. Like you said, a lot of other QBs are having off years, yet they're still producing more yards and/or TDs than Purdy. He's just in a great system that makes QBs look far better than they really are. The two guys at the top of pass yards, Completion %, and yds/attempt are.......Tua and Purdy. Both in the same system, and both just average players, not All Pro quality.

All pro quality which year? He’s been better than the all pro quality QBs THIS season.  
 

Mahomes is the best QB in the league.  He’s all pro quality.  Should he be named all pro?  
 

Which all pro quality QBs are all pro worthy this season?

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 1/1/2024 at 10:00 AM, Max Fischer said:

Taron is the best at his position. However, take Barnwell out of the equation, and other than Ed Oliver, I don't think any other Bills deserve All-Pro consideration. Which is fine as long as the team wins. 

Bernard’s out there breaking records and definitely deserves all pro if I’m being honest. He’s been all over the field  making plays the entire season. The tandem of Milano & TB is going to be lethal next year. 

[NoSaint]

On 1/1/2024 at 8:59 AM, Warcodered said:

It's not like Leonard Floyd has been having a great year or anything, or hell even Rasul Douglas leads our team in INTs despite joining it in October.

yea but plenty of pass rushers are having great years, right? 

hes tied with 4 people for 16th in sacks- so average among top edge players?

 

seems like the classic hall of very good vs hall of fame debate. He’s had a very solid season, but you aren’t picking him as the cornerstone generational talent and that’s not an insult to him

21 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39216134/nfl-all-pro-team-2023-barnwell-50-best-players-every-position

 

Here is a link. I can quibble about whether some players should be first vs. second team, but the selections are very difficult to argue with overall. Certainly a case can be made for Allen over Purdy, but Purdy is a defensible selection as #2. But that's it. We have some very good players who have done well this season, but not top 4. Oliver has been very good, but he was not a top 4 DT in the league. Ditto Douglas at CB and Cook at RB.

Yea, I think he have a ton of guys playing in that range of 5 to 16 at their positions. Not many gaping holes but not a ton of dominating performances either. It’s a solid well rounded roster with a superstar at qb. That’s what we are supposed to be at this phase of a maturing roster though. 

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

All pro quality which year? He’s been better than the all pro quality QBs THIS season.  
 

Mahomes is the best QB in the league.  He’s all pro quality.  Should he be named all pro?  
 

Which all pro quality QBs are all pro worthy this season?

Yes, he's accounted for more total yards than Purdy and he's a much better QB. Allen and Hurts have accounted for way more TDs than Purdy and they're much better QBs. Lamar Jackson carries that Ravens offense running and passing and has more total yards than Purdy. He's a much better QB. The likes of Tua and Purdy can go play the Pro Bowl games as their reward. They're not All Pro calibre.

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Yes, he's accounted for more total yards than Purdy and he's a much better QB. Allen and Hurts have accounted for way more TDs than Purdy and they're much better QBs. Lamar Jackson carries that Ravens offense running and passing and has more total yards than Purdy. He's a much better QB. The likes of Tua and Purdy can go play the Pro Bowl games as their reward. They're not All Pro calibre.

So Mahomes should be all pro this season, got it

 

Jalen Hurts has not be a better QB than Purdy this season.  Not even close.  That’s ridiculous.  
 

2 years ago we would’ve laughed at Hurts being all pro- now after one great season, he’s a consensus elite all pro QB?  That’s nuts

Edited January 3 by NewEra

[FireChans]

18 minutes ago, NewEra said:

So Mahomes should be all pro this season, got it

 

Jalen Hurts has not be a better QB than Purdy this season.  Not even close.  That’s ridiculous.  
 

2 years ago we would’ve laughed at Hurts being all pro- now after one great season, he’s a consensus elite all pro QB?  That’s nuts

Hot take, I think Hurts was crowned far too early and is very quickly approaching “dual threat Carson Wentz” status.

Edited January 3 by FireChans

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Hot take, I think Hurts was crowned far too early and is very quickly approaching “dual threat Carson Wentz” status.

Not such a hot take after the year he’s had.  He hasn’t impressed me (this year) and has regressed throwing the ball this se
 

Just like Josh has regressed throwing the ball since Gb last season.  He’s had flashes and is a force of nature escaping the rush as well as running.  Still beastly enough to will his team to victory, but our passing offense isn’t struggling just because of the playcalling and the playmakers.  Making magic by extending plays and QB runs, thats Allen’s and Hurts’ game.  Without that ability, neither would impact players this season imo.  
 

as much as I love Josh, he just hasn’t been a great passer this season.  
 

(I’m in insinuating that you disagree, just a random somewhat hot take of my own)

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Not such a hot take after the year he’s had.  He hasn’t impressed me (this year) and has regressed throwing the ball this se
 

Just like Josh has regressed throwing the ball since Gb last season.  He’s had flashes and is a force of nature escaping the rush as well as running.  Still beastly enough to will his team to victory, but our passing offense isn’t struggling just because of the playcalling and the playmakers.  Making magic by extending plays and QB runs, thats Allen’s and Hurts’ game.  Without that ability, neither would impact players this season imo.  
 

as much as I love Josh, he just hasn’t been a great passer this season.  
 

(I’m in insinuating that you disagree, just a random somewhat hot take of my own)

Josh at least has the weapons excuse.

 

Jalen Hurts has a good running back, a really good OL, a really good TE (who was hurt to be fair) and 2 good to great WR’s.

 

The only reason for Hurts to struggle passing as much as he had this season is:

 

1. he’s significantly injured

 

or 

 

2. He just ain’t that good.

 

If I’m an Eagles fan, I’m sweating that he isn’t the guy at all.

 

I’m not sweating that in Buffalo.

[NewEra]

28 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Josh at least has the weapons excuse.

 

Jalen Hurts has a good running back, a really good OL, a really good TE (who was hurt to be fair) and 2 good to great WR’s.

 

The only reason for Hurts to struggle passing as much as he had this season is:

 

1. he’s significantly injured

 

or 

 

2. He just ain’t that good.

 

If I’m an Eagles fan, I’m sweating that he isn’t the guy at all.

 

I’m not sweating that in Buffalo.

Of course-

 

Allen >>> hurts.  

 

but allen has been part of the problem