Your Brown Eye Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 I grew up in a farm town and we had a saying for stuff like this and it was "if you can't get any more milk out of the teets, then it's time to let it go". We are squeezing the teet with Tre, there's no more milk left. His contract is too rich for a guy coming off two serious lower body injuries at a premium position. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 The best thing that could probably happen is Tre retires but before he does rework his deal so the cap hit isn't so brutal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryMadman Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 14 hours ago, Buddy Hix said: Tre is scared of contact, wouldn’t work This plus I don't think he is big enough to play safety. He is listed as 5'11" 190lbs and thats a really skinny 190, safeties need to be beefier and be hitters, Tre is neither. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 26 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said: The best thing that could probably happen is Tre retires but before he does rework his deal so the cap hit isn't so brutal. If he retires, then there is no cap hit or dead money for the Bills. So that would def be the best thing possible. Isnt gonna happen tho, he'd be dumb to do it. Might even have to give some gauranteed money back if he did. Bills will have to cut him June 1. If anyone moves to Safety it will be Rasul Douglas. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew21PA Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Am I wrong in thinking secondary is a short lived cycle in the nfl? it appears that A you can keep guys around on rookie deals then let them blossom - maybe a second d deal but like even wlaversge play in the right scheme they look good feel like they are running backs on the defense yes we have seen bad secondary play from some but I think we have some mediocre guys that look better than average becuase of scheme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 14 hours ago, Special K said: Yeah, I was thinking tackling would be the issue.....its a shame how old and slow the Bills once dominant secondary has become. Hyde is slow, but Poyer is pretty much playing linebacker now, and while Rapp, Hamlin, Douglas, Jackson, and Bedford aren't fast, they're not slow, either. I still have hopes for Elam, too. Hopefully, the light goes on for Elam, and he starts next year next to Douglas, with Bedford and Rapp/draft pick at safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said: If he retires, then there is no cap hit or dead money for the Bills. So that would def be the best thing possible. Isnt gonna happen tho, he'd be dumb to do it. Might even have to give some gauranteed money back if he did. Bills will have to cut him June 1. If anyone moves to Safety it will be Rasul Douglas. Quote When an NFL player retires, all of the dead money on their contract counts against the current year’s salary cap. As far as the salary cap goes, player retirement is treated the same as if a player were cut or traded by the team. Any non-dead money is forfeit upon retirement and does not count against the team’s cap, but the dead money remains. What is White’s dead money cap hit if he’s traded/cut/retired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncha Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 15 hours ago, Special K said: I’m not saying the Bills should do this now, but if the back to back serious injuries cause Tre to lose a step or two, would he be a candidate to move to Safety to extend his career?? The Bills will be moving on from Hyde and Poyer soon enough.....Tre is a great ball-hawk, but could he tackle well enough to be a Safety?? Thoughts?? Not phsyical enough for safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 15 hours ago, Nextmanup said: Nah, he's probably played his last play in the league already. Probably ditto for Hyde. More than likely next year there will be a few of the veteran players on the team now that won't be here due to age & injury history . Some may change positions but not sure if that would be for the better of the team . The Bills will need to focus on getting younger in some places I hope that Ilam can be one of those that the coaching staff can bring along as one of those future guys for the team & add in the draft to help off set some of the contracts they have now . Plus there will be those younger players that will eventually want the big or bigger contract that they may not be able to keep due to the cap . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said: What is White’s dead money cap hit if he’s traded/cut/retired? Oh damn, thanks for the clarification. I guess I had that backwards. Then it's a $10M cap hit if he retires/traded/cut. Or we pay him $16m to stay around and maybe play ok. Easy decision no matter what the consequence. You cut him June 1 and save $6m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 He may need to start juicing do build up some strength. Agree with many of the posts, for a CB, speed is their most important asset. Having had a torn ACL and Achilles will be very hard for him to ever be able to recover from that. We've all seen what Miller looks like so far coming back less than year after surgery, would imagine all of 2024 White would be like that and can the team afford to wait for him until 2025 with no promises then as to how good he'd be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 14 hours ago, Trogdor said: IMO this is why Rapp was available, he isn't looking to make a play on the ball, he is looking to make a 70s style highlight hit. Hyde is still good enough to get time, but he is slower and that's tough. Whoever takes over this team will be going all in on offense. They have to, the cap is going to be a mess with a series of poor drafts not helping anyone. There won't be anywhere near enough capital to address both sides next year. When I hear the sentiment they don’t spend on offense I think about the full price QB, LT, WR1, overpriced imo TE2, first and second rd TE1 and OL and RB1. As well as the high dollar center. That’s 7 of 11 spots. 2023 cap split is pretty even between o and D next year- 63% of cap is committed to the offense right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 After the first injury I started to think that was the move. Transition him back there and use the younger guys at CB. Sadly I figured Elam was going to be the #1 CB but, you know …McDermott 🤷♂️. I can’t imagine white has anything left speed wise to run with WRs on the outside. I doubt we ever see him matter again. Very sad. Guy was step 1 of this entire turnaround 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 19 hours ago, Special K said: I’m not saying the Bills should do this now, but if the back to back serious injuries cause Tre to lose a step or two, would he be a candidate to move to Safety to extend his career?? The Bills will be moving on from Hyde and Poyer soon enough.....Tre is a great ball-hawk, but could he tackle well enough to be a Safety?? Thoughts?? I think it's a great plan because of the dead money hit they would take cutting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBFL Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Not this again… Safety needs to be your most durable DB. Tre is best at CB and CB only. 2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: When I hear the sentiment they don’t spend on offense I think about the full price QB, LT, WR1, overpriced imo TE2, first and second rd TE1 and OL and RB1. As well as the high dollar center. That’s 7 of 11 spots. 2023 cap split is pretty even between o and D next year- 63% of cap is committed to the offense right now. If we are shedding cap from the offense it has to be Morse first followed by Knox. Would rather you keep Knox just for the results he’s had on the field with Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, BBFL said: Not this again… Safety needs to be your most durable DB. Tre is best at CB and CB only. Yeah… there are some corners that can convert to safety… like I could see Taron playing safety instead of nickel corner at some point… Benford maybe…. TreD isn’t that type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 5 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: If he retires, then there is no cap hit or dead money for the Bills. So that would def be the best thing possible. Isnt gonna happen tho, he'd be dumb to do it. Might even have to give some gauranteed money back if he did. Bills will have to cut him June 1. If anyone moves to Safety it will be Rasul Douglas. Genuine cap question, could Tre completely rework his deal into a one year deal with a modest guarantee and a lower base salary that could lower his cap and dead cap hit (lower his overall cap number to 9ish million and dead cap to 6ish million)? That type of deal would put some money in Tre’s pocket and give him a chance to come back while the Bills can lower the dead cap charge if they decide to cut him and lower his overall cap hit if he makes the roster? If that’s possible I think it would work best for both parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Rod Woodson does it and suddenly every corner can be a safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 He's not likely to rehab yet another big time injury and learn a new position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airseven Posted November 19, 2023 Share Posted November 19, 2023 Move to safety just like Benford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 6 hours ago, billsfan89 said: Genuine cap question, could Tre completely rework his deal into a one year deal with a modest guarantee and a lower base salary that could lower his cap and dead cap hit (lower his overall cap number to 9ish million and dead cap to 6ish million)? That type of deal would put some money in Tre’s pocket and give him a chance to come back while the Bills can lower the dead cap charge if they decide to cut him and lower his overall cap hit if he makes the roster? If that’s possible I think it would work best for both parties. it's an option. he could choose to do something like that. i've previously floated the idea of re-signing him to something like 3/$21m with like $10M guaranteed. depends if he feels like giving the Bills a "hometeam" discount, or if he would be insulted by the idea and more willing to test FA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Careful with this topic, it was suggested over a year ago and that OP got barbecued for suggesting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said: Careful with this topic, it was suggested over a year ago and that OP got barbecued for suggesting it. Rightfully so, it's a dumb idea. As agreed upon in this thread as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akcash Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 I think White to Nickel and Taron to Safety is the move once they both lose some of their speed. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo1105 Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 His future is giving us cap relief this off-season 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 9 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: When I hear the sentiment they don’t spend on offense I think about the full price QB, LT, WR1, overpriced imo TE2, first and second rd TE1 and OL and RB1. As well as the high dollar center. That’s 7 of 11 spots. 2023 cap split is pretty even between o and D next year- 63% of cap is committed to the offense right now. That's not what I'm saying here, the team is way over next years cap at this point. Even with tough cuts they still won't be able to address both sides sufficiently. They're going to have to pick a favorite kid and go all in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 17 minutes ago, Trogdor said: That's not what I'm saying here, the team is way over next years cap at this point. Even with tough cuts they still won't be able to address both sides sufficiently. They're going to have to pick a favorite kid and go all in there. To me this Fact, you correctly cite, makes a regime change almost impossible unless they trade Josh out for collateral too. at this point it’s all intertwined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazinBill Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 Tre was good- sadly his time passed quickly - we can no longer afford to have a collection of guys we hope to become what they once were before multiple severe injuries- What happened to him sucks and his prime will be recovering - but a safety really need to be a strong at tackling - Tre is not- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeParrish Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 32 minutes ago, akcash said: I think White to Nickel and Taron to Safety is the move once they both lose some of their speed. Nah, you get new dudes when this is in the deck of cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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