I’m scared to fire McDermott.

[Beast]

I agree a lot with what the OP has to say and disagree with a lot of it.

 

What I don’t agree with is Sean McDermott had little to do with this organization’s success. I 100% believe he brought a winning culture here.

 

What I do agree with is that it’s time to say goodbye. This team is regressing in a big way. This is a team that has been looked upon the last three seasons as a favorite to win a championship….and we haven’t come close.

 

And, yes, I agree it’s time to bring an offensive mind in here to run the show. Josh Allen is failing before our very eyes. That is scary and shouldn’t be happening.

[Livinginthepast]

TBH I always thought that the Bills could win a SB DESPITE their coaches. I thought over the last 4 years that they have the talent to overcome the incompetence of their coaches and even the bad officiating of the NFL. However the last 2 years have shaken that faith.  McD overall has a good steadying philosophy as a coach but he has two big flaws. 

 

1. He is inconsistent in his ability to prepare teams for big games. I dont know how anyone could trust him in a SB.

 

2. He makes a lot of bad in game decisions in close games. 13 seconds is the best example but there have been way too many other smaller ones in his tenure on challenges etc that have been poorly thought out. 

 

Unfortunately, I think these two flaws are fatal and my original premise that they have the talent to overcome them is over optimistic.

 

 

 

[Dillenger4]

19 minutes ago, McBean said:

Ugly in Locker room?

 

look at Diggs and what happened this off season. Direct correlation to my post. Diggs knows.

I wonder about this too a LOT lately. We will never know what the problem was but there sure was/is an issue with the players vs the coaches. Diggs was sat down in a boardroom for a meeting with McD and Dorsey at beginning of TC. (fact reported). Then, Diggs was sent home by McD and then returned to practice the next day. You can't tell me something didn't happen (bad) and it is still festering. We will never know the truth but from day 1 of this season we have been behind the 8-ball.

It makes me wonder... then players only meeting... now massive injuries on the D get McD a "pass".... again.

[DrDawkinstein]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Question for everyone here, name me all the Franchise QBs who’s coaches were fired and what the future was for those QBs?

 

Blowing up the Bills organization likely starts the end of Josh Allen in Buffalo.

 

Tua had his coach fired, now he's lighting it up with McDaniel nd will lkely win the Division over us this year.

 

Philly fired SB winner Pederson, and Hurts has shined since.

 

Cousins has greatly improved since Minn moved away from Zimmer.

 

Furthermore, coaching/OC/Scheme changes have directly and immediately benefitted:

 

Lamar Jackson this year

Dak in Dallas

Goff moving to a new team and system

 

Changes arent always bad.

 

(thanks to @Big Blitz for putting a list together last night)

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[HomeTeam]

Say hypothetically you move on from McDermott, do you also let go of Beane or keep him on in to hire the next guy?

 

I kind of like Beane to be honest. I think he's done a good job but aren't they tied at the hips? 

Edited November 7, 2023 by HomeTeam
Sp

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, HomeTeam said:

Day hypothetically you move on from McDermott, do you also let go of Beane or keep him on in to hire the next guy?

 

I kind of like Beane to be honest. I think he's done a good job but aren't they tied at the hips? 

 

I, personally, absolutely keep Beane and have him assist in the hiring.

 

They're buddies, but I bet if you asked Beane "I'm firing Sean. Do you want to keep your job or are you tied to your friend and want to be fired too?" He'd keep his job. It's a business.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[Bob Jones]

I agree that McD needs to go. But one big problem is that a lot of the talking head "experts" out there (even former coaches) think that he's doing a great job, and unfortunately, I think Pegula listens to those "experts" more than he should.

[Matt_In_NH]

53 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

The title does not accurately depict the topic of this thread, you should probably change it to make it reflect that.

Agree, nonsense....

[HomeTeam]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I, personally, absolutely keep Beane and have him assist in the hiring.

 

They're buddies, but I bet if you asked Beane "I'm firing Sean. Do you want to keep your job or are you tied to your friend and want to be fired too?" He'd keep his job. It's a business.

 

 

I get that.

 

I remember the Toronto Raptors went something similar with Dwane Casey, before they hired Nick nurse. For everyone one of these cases though, there are countless others where it does not work out. 

 

I might be coming around to keeping Beane and moving on from McDermott but I'm going to hold judgement until the season ends. 

[FilthyBeast]

I've said many times, if you take JA17 out of the equation does anybody really believe this team would have had the same success they have had since he's been here? And spare me the 2017 Tyrod Taylor/Peterman season because there were a myriad of factors (including pure luck on a 4th and 17 pass) that led to that.

 

But as much of a critic I am of this regime, you do have to give credit to them to turning things around compared to the previous 17 years. But at the same time understand they have reached their ceiling in Buffalo and simply aren't capable of taking the next step and competing with the likes of Chiefs, Bengals (and many other rising teams) going forward. Because the harsh reality is the Bills probably aren't even the best team in the division anymore, and at best the 5th or 6th team in the entire conference right now.

 

So with that said, it's time to move on and Pegula is prolonging the inevitable if they are still here in 2024 and beyond.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

15 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Tua had his coach fired, now he's lighting it up with McDaniel nd will lkely win the Division over us this year.

 

Philly fired SB winner Pederson, and Hurts has shined since.

 

Cousins has greatly improved since Minn moved away from Zimmer.

 

Furthermore, coaching/OC/Scheme changes have directly and immediately benefitted:

 

Lamar Jackson this year

Dak in Dallas

Goff moving to a new team and system

 

Changes arent always bad.

 

(thanks to @Big Blitz for putting a list together last night)

 

None of this even fits what I said. McDermott built a winning franchise. He helped develop a franchise QB. Hurts and Tua were on losing teams and not developed yet.

 

The QBs you need to look at are Mathew Stafford in Detroit, Philip Rivers in San Diego, and Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay. Rodgers is probably the best example but they never made it to the Super Bowl with LeFluer.

John Elway won a Super Bowl going from Fox to Kubiak but that was a promotion from within which no one wants.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[MPL]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Question for everyone here, name me all the Franchise QBs who’s coaches were fired and what the future was for those QBs?

 

Blowing up the Bills organization likely starts the end of Josh Allen in Buffalo.

John Elway and Phil Simms are the only two examples of QBs who won Super Bowls after coaching changes. Elway lost 3 Super Bowls with Gibbs as coach in the 80s and it wasn't until Shanahan was hired that Elway won. Simms had been the Giants QB for 4 seasons with little success. Parcells was hired in 83 and they won the Super Bowl in 86. 

It's not very inspiring. 

But it's not any better for teams that held onto 1 head coach for a long time...

Bill Cowher and Andy Reid are the only examples. Cowher had coached the Steelers for over a decade but didn't get over the hump until drafting Big Ben. Andy Reid had sustained success in KC for 4 years but didn't get over the hump until drafting Mahomes. 

At this point, something has to change for the Bills, and it's either McDermott or Allen. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by MPL

[Dablitzkrieg]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

“lOoK AT ouR pREVioUs cOaChes mAN. NOt woRTH THe RiSk.”

 

Let’s address this coward mentality. Conservative mentality. No dog mentality. The soft mentality the Buffalo media has accepted along with some fans here.

 

Bills previous head coaches in the 2000’s and their QB’s up until McClappy was hired.

 

Wade- Flutie and Johnson

Williams- Johnson and Bledsoe

Mularkey- Bledsoe

Jauron- Losman and Checkdown Edwards

Gailey- Fitz

Marrone- Manuel and Orton

Rex- Tee Rod

McClap- Tee Rod and Allen

 

You notice something? Yeah, all of the prior coaches had horrible QB’s and lost here. Shocker!

Myth: “He (McClap) changed the culture 

Fact: We had a negative point differential and a soft schedule in 2017 when the drought was broken. He punted in OT against Indy and was playing for the tie. A fumble led to a win. Also, a guy named Andy Dalton threw a pass that was nothing short of a miracle to get us in. The following season we stunk and got lucky to land Allen. Ever since, the clown coach has hid behind his star QB. Look at the terrible losses over the years. At JAX, at NE, ran over by Jonathan Taylor, Houston playoff meltdown, curb stomped by Cincy last playoffs…

 

Myth: “Let’s fire Dorsey. It’s his fault.”

Fact:  Last year it was fire Frazier. It’s his fault. Leslie got the blame. Now, some of you are falling right into the same trap this Czar is going to spew at years end. Reality is if we hire a bright offensive mind who flourishes here, that guy is now gone in 2 years or less and we are stuck doing the same thing over. O, and even a great OC can’t cover up your clown HC horrible in game decision making. Your OC can’t cover up the obsession with defensive picks and big money to that side of the ball. Your OC can’t cover up the conservative scared coaching approaches like punting before half or kicking field goals down 2 scores. YOUR OC CANT COVER UP 13 SECONDS.

 

In conclusion, I’m sick and freakin tired of the scared Buffalo media who won’t call this guy out. Guys like Adam Schein and Ross Tucker don’t hesitate to address the incompetence of McClap. Last comments…

 

Jerry Kraus told Doug Collins to hit the bricks and promoted a guy named Phil Jackson to get the Bulls over the hump led by a guy named Michael Jordan. Did it work? 6 rings boss.

 

Warriors told Mark Jackson to hit the bricks and hired a guy named Steve Kerr. Did it work? 4 rings.

 

Brass Balls Howie Roseman told his SUPER BOWL WINNING COACH DOUG PEDERSON YOU’RE FIRED PAL TWO YEARS POST LOMBARDI! Did it work? Eagles #1 team in the league. Super Bowl appearance last year. Humming on offense. Sirriani aggressive coach who could coach circles around McClap. Incredible offensive line. Weapons galore. Has made Jalen Hurts into an MVP.

You guys want to sit back and take this crap? Be my guest. I’ve pounded the table for 3 years to get this bozo out of WNY. Now, some are finally thinking I’m not crazy. You’re seeing it in front of your eyes folks. We are wasting a Hall of Fame QB. We are wasting time. We are wasting our best chance ever to win a Super Bowl title. To get this dark cloud over with. To bring a trophy home to WNY. For Bills Mafia across the world. How can we better our chances? Simple…

 

Terry, please God do the right thing and FIRE SEAN MCDERMOTT.

 

 

 

When did they are you to fire him?

[boater]

I read up to "McClappy"

 

You instantly lost all credibility there.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Tua had his coach fired, now he's lighting it up with McDaniel nd will lkely win the Division over us this year.

 

Philly fired SB winner Pederson, and Hurts has shined since.

 

Cousins has greatly improved since Minn moved away from Zimmer.

 

Furthermore, coaching/OC/Scheme changes have directly and immediately benefitted:

 

Lamar Jackson this year

Dak in Dallas

Goff moving to a new team and system

 

Changes arent always bad.

 

(thanks to @Big Blitz for putting a list together last night)

 

 

And sometimes they are.

 

That's the problem.

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

16 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

... then players only meeting...

What 'players only' meeting?  Has it ever been substantiated that the meeting occurred?  17 odd pages of nattering, and last I looked, it was never determined if said meeting was held. 🤨

[Captain_Quint]

McD's success should be used a springboard for both parties. 

 

We have Allen to dangle in front of the best available talent and turn an OC into a head coach. 

 

McD has the rejuvenated franchise and city of Buffalo to hang his hat on. 

 

It shouldn't be that hard to shift gears at this point, except that we will need a new HC, DC, and OC all in one offseason. But we have Allen, Diggs, and a strong roster of talent. 

 

[No_Matter_What]

I'll reserve my judgement on this topic untill this season ends.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

None of this even fits what I said. McDermott built a winning franchise. He helped develop a franchise QB. Hurts and Tua were on losing teams and not developed yet.

 

The QBs you need to look at are Mathew Stafford in Detroit, Philip Rivers in San Diego, and Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay. Rodgers is probably the best example but they never made it to the Super Bowl with LeFluer.

 

 

You dont even know what you said? Because here it is:

 

33 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Question for everyone here, name me all the Franchise QBs who’s coaches were fired and what the future was for those QBs?

 

Blowing up the Bills organization likely starts the end of Josh Allen in Buffalo.

 

Nothing about which coaches built a winning franchise, or developing QBs, or any of that extra stuff you are adding on.

 

You asked which Franchise QBs had coaches fired, and what was their future.

 

Tua, Cousins, and Hurts all say hi.

 

And those are all recent, relevant examples. 2 of which were firing highly regarded Defensive coaches for hot shot OCs.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

And sometimes they are.

 

That's the problem.

 

 

 

Then dont ever do anything. Because every decision has a chance to go wrong. Better to just play not to lose on this one.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[Dubie54]

38 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

In fairness, these are the only 2 I'd give a chance from that list.

 

But I dont know squat. I admittedly wasnt aware of McDermott before the consultants found him, so who knows who else might be kicking around.

 

That's why they get paid the big bucks.

 

Folks always come back with that argument when talking about firing coaches. "oh yeah? who are you hiring that's so great?!?"

 

Not our job to answer that question.

Houston found Bobby Slowik. There are experienced guys out there. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

The best idea is if the offense doesn’t improve the rest of season you go hire the best OC available that fits the modern game. We hope that guy one day will be McDermott’s replacement if McDermott doesn’t get to a Super Bowl.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Then dont ever do anything. Because every decision has a chance to go wrong. Better to just play not to lose on this one.

 

not saying that at all

 

But let's throw a hypothetical out there. Pegula gets it and fires McDermott and/or Beane.

 

Hires a coach who turns out to be just as bad or worse. Do you believe he's going to fire the new guy after a season or two? It may not be a popular question, but it's a question that should be asked.

 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The best idea is if the offense doesn’t improve the rest of season you go hire the best OC available that fits the modern game. We hope that guy one day will be McDermott’s replacement if McDermott doesn’t get to a Super Bowl.

 

I'm not against the idea of hiring an OC with the plan he replaces McD as HC.

 

But if you are going to do that, then just cut bait and fire McD now. Otherwise, you are breeding paranoia and dishonesty in the organization. Very much like the Browns with Gregg Williams and Todd Haley gunning for Hue's job instead of doing their own job.

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

not saying that at all

 

But let's throw a hypothetical out there. Pegula gets it and fires McDermott and/or Beane.

 

Hires a coach who turns out to be just as bad or worse. Do you believe he's going to fire the new guy after a season or two? It may not be a popular question, but it's a question that should be asked.

 

 

Does it matter when we have no future under McD?

 

The entire motivation of the move is knowing we've hit McD's ceiling. So better to try ANYTHING else, than nothing.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You dont even know what you said? Because here it is:

 

 

Nothing about which coaches built a winning franchise, or developing QBs, or any of that extra stuff you are adding on.

 

You asked which Franchise QBs had coaches fired, and what was their future.

 

Tua, Cousins, and Hurts all say hi.

 

And those are all recent, relevant examples. 2 of which were firing highly regarded Defensive coaches for hot shot OCs.

 

 

 

Then dont ever do anything. Because every decision has a chance to go wrong. Better to just play not to lose on this one.

 

 

Tua, Cousins, and Hurts? What are we even doing here? Kirk Cousins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hurts and Tua weren’t even considered the future of their respective teams when their coaches were fired. 
 

And if you’re answering Kirk Cousins then you should rethink your position.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Tua, Cousins, and Hurts? What are we even doing here? Kirk Cousins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hurts and Tua weren’t even considered the future of their respective teams when their coaches were fired. 
 

And if you’re answering Kirk Cousins then you should rethink your position.

 

Right, and now they are thanks to the coaching change you are arguing against.

 

(And Hurts was by the owner and GM, hence Pederson's firing)

[The Jokeman]

My question for those that want to fire McDermott, who are you replacing him with? New doesn't always mean better. I've heard many mention Ben Johnson, well guess what the Lions have scored less points then we have this season. Not sure it's all on him but it's worth pointing out. 40 points less. Then my next question who do you replace at DC? 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Does it matter when we have no future under McD?

 

The entire motivation of the move is knowing we've hit McD's ceiling. So better to try ANYTHING else, than nothing.

 

OK fine, it's obvious you're too emotional to even consider that Terry Pegula, who's a KNOWN coach-hire bungler across two organizations might ***** the duck in the process and stick a fork in an outlet.

 

But don't for one moment pretend it can't get worse. It can.

 

I'm for moving on, by the way, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend it'll be rose petals and champagne.

 

[VaMilBill]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

My question for those that want to fire McDermott, who are you replacing him with? New doesn't always mean better. I've heard many mention Ben Johnson, well guess what the Lions have scored less points then we have this season. Not sure it's all on him but it's worth pointing out. 40 points less. Then my next question who do you replace at DC? 

So you’re ok with the status quo which is a downward trajectory? Four the last three years?

 

yeah sometimes new isn’t better, but at least we should try to improve. Just sticking with what we have has proven we aren’t improving. 

[Captain_Quint]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

None of this even fits what I said. McDermott built a winning franchise. He helped develop a franchise QB. Hurts and Tua were on losing teams and not developed yet.

 

The QBs you need to look at are Mathew Stafford in Detroit, Philip Rivers in San Diego, and Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay. Rodgers is probably the best example but they never made it to the Super Bowl with LeFluer.

John Elway won a Super Bowl going from Fox to Kubiak but that was a promotion from within which no one wants.

These are good points, but the Bills need to take the sentiment out of the decision.

We're going on 60+ years of being losers and not winning a Super Bowl. I think you need to throw everything we can at it for the next 5 years until the formula is right. 

 

McD just doesn't seem to have the right stuff going forward. It wouldn't surprise me if his next stint goes similar to this one, and he's still chasing a championship down the road as a DC again. 

[Freddie's Dead]

McDummy needs to be gone.  If it takes missing the playoffs to do that, then I'm for it, because this team is going nowhere as long as this idiot remains in charge.  His in-game decisions against the Bengals were so bad that I would have fired him when the clock hit :00 at the end of the 4th QTR.  He should have been fired for 13 seconds.  Sacking him at this point would simply be correcting that mistake.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Freddie's Dead

[The Jokeman]

Just now, VaMilBill said:

So you’re ok with the status quo which is a downward trajectory? Four the last three years?

 

yeah sometimes new isn’t better, but at least we should try to improve. Just sticking with what we have has proven we aren’t improving. 

The offense has struggled this season no doubt but I don't blame it all on Dorsey. IDK Josh just seems to me like he's not the same, lack of energy and/or just not getting good presnap reads that used to etc. I just don't want to fire McD and just go with an OC because again that could hurt our defense which currently the best part of the team. 

[Success]

The season will dictate how things go (I'm stating the obvious, I know).

 

I don't see how they can retain him if we actually miss the playoffs.  That would kind of shock me - and be a little depressing.

 

I don't think we miss the playoffs, though. Then, it's more iffy. I think a 1st round exit would still leave things very much in doubt for his future here.  But any kind of run, and he'll be back.

 

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

9 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

OK fine, it's obvious you're too emotional to even consider that Terry Pegula, who's a KNOWN coach-hire bungler across two organizations might ***** the duck in the process and stick a fork in an outlet.

 

But don't for one moment pretend it can't get worse. It can.

 

I'm for moving on, by the way, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend it'll be rose petals and champagne.

 

 

I'm not saying that at all. I have made no guarantees that it will get better. I even said as much in that post you just quoted.

 

No one is pretending it cant get worse. No one has asked you to pretend it will be all rose petals. You made both of those up. So maybe look at who is really being too emotional and scared...

 

I said this earlier in the thread if people bothered to read instead of just react:

 

I dont necessarily trust Pegula to make the decision, but I trust that he is more likely to rely on outside help and advice when it comes to NFL hires than he is on NHL hires.

 

He thinks he's a "hockey guy", and makes a lot of those decisions himself.

 

For the Bills, he hired an outside consulting firm who helped find McDermott. Who most of us didnt even have on our coaching radar at the time.

 

No reason to think the firm and Beane couldnt find a decent replacement. Even with Terry in the mix.

 

And before you get worked up, I'm not guaranteeing that

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Right, and now they are thanks to the coaching change you are arguing against.

 

(And Hurts was by the owner and GM, hence Pederson's firing)

Matt Ryan is another one and he actually did make a Super Bowl after a coaching change. Should’ve won.

 

 

 

[GoBills808]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

 

John Elway won a Super Bowl going from Fox to Kubiak but that was a promotion from within which no one wants.

Pretty sure this is completely wrong

[VaMilBill]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

The offense has struggled this season no doubt but I don't blame it all on Dorsey. IDK Josh just seems to me like he's not the same, lack of energy and/or just not getting good presnap reads that used to etc. I just don't want to fire McD and just go with an OC because again that could hurt our defense which currently the best part of the team. 

That’s fair. I feel the same way mostly, with the exception id rather take the risk and try to win a SB. I think it’s become pretty clear at this point McD won’t get us a SB win

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I'm not saying that at all. I have made no guarantees that it will get better. I even said as much in that post you just quoted.

 

No one is pretending it cant get worse. No one has asked you to pretend it will be all rose petals. You made both of those up. So maybe look at who is really being too emotional and scared...

 

I said this earlier in the thread if people bothered to read instead of just react:

 

I dont necessarily trust Pegula to make the decision, but I trust that he is more likely to rely on outside help and advice when it comes to NFL hires than he is on NHL hires.

 

He thinks he's a "hickey guy", and makes a lot of those decisions himself.

 

For the Bills, he hired an outside consulting firm who helped find McDermott. Who most of us didnt even have on our coaching radar at the time.

 

No reason to think the firm and Beane couldnt find a decent replacement. Even with Terry in the mix.

 

And before you get worked up, I'm not guaranteeing that

Honestly, I think Beane should go before McDermott based on the Von Miller addition alone.

 

I'm OK with both of them going, so long as Pegula hires a GM FIRST and allows HIM to make the decision.

 

My number one prime concern with this whole thing is that we end up with Rex/Rob Ryan part deux. Sorry, just don't want ANY part of that clown shoes

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Pine Barrens Mafia

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Matt Ryan is another one and he actually did make a Super Bowl after a coaching change. Should’ve won.

 

 

 

 

AND the Falcons should have let Quinn walk and promoted Shanny, much like the Bills should have done with McD/Dabol after 13seconds.

 

But that is a huge and difficult move I dont expect owners to make.

[Shemp]

Allen shouldn't be in the HOF. 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Pretty sure this is completely wrong

 

Yeah, it was Shanahan for Elway.