Letting Josh coach himself was the incorrect decision

[Warcodered]

It made all the sense in the world at the time, it would keep continuity with the offense Josh loved and the team already knew. Nobody thought Dorsey would be awful there was no talk about that. Coming on here with hindsight like of course this was a terrible idea is ridiculous. 

[pocoboy]

3 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

So basically, it’s Terry decision whether to axe McDermott and Beane will be left out of it. Considering McDermott encouraged the hire of Beane, that makes sense.

 

That has seemed to be indicated from the media types who have spoken of the dynamic. McDermott ought to have some leash to figure this out, and hopefully he would consult Beane on ways to "fix" the offense (including play-calling duty changes or outright personnel moves). There's also a case to be made for stability, but it seems that particular approach has run its course. Sure they might beat a Denver team at home, but I could also envision a scenario where that entire stadium starts chanting for an ouster.

[Heavy Kevi]

13 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

There's probably some truth to this, and occasionally you see some shade thrown their way (ala McKenzie's comments after leaving). 

 

I don't think the offense has much faith in Dorsey at this point. 

 

Yes and current players have danced around the topic publicly. Publicly.

 

Would be interesting to hear what they say to each other when they are practice golfing at Josh's new California compound.

[somnus00]

3 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Dorsey is a bad, bad offensive coordinator. It’s just that simple. Josh wanting him as OC means nothing really with regards to scheme. He picked him because he was familiar with Daboll’s system and the team. 

Also, it's possible to be a good QB coach, but bad OC. Just like one can be a good coordinator but bad HC.

[Reed83HOF]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Josh saying post game that he’s “just running the plays that were called” is mind-blowing to me.  This is HIS offense.  HIS offensive coordinator.  He’s in Year Six of this offense basically.  Is he not part of the weekly install?  Wtf is going on there?

I believe he also said they didn't play complimentary football....

 

Allen misses Daboll, hell the entire offense does

[pocoboy]

7 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

It made all the sense in the world at the time, it would keep continuity with the offense Josh loved and the team already knew. Nobody thought Dorsey would be awful there was no talk about that. Coming on here with hindsight like of course this was a terrible idea is ridiculous. 

 

If there is a change at this point in the season, I'd have to bet the choice is an in-house promotion again, just because you don't have a lot of time to install a new system.

 

Seems interesting that there haven't been any leaks.

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

I think McD has been a decent CEO. An above average coach who more often than not would be an upgrade. 
 

But coaches run their course sometimes. He’s a crucial part of this team getting to where they are. 
 

I thought he might be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat this year. But after last night and his post game. He’s toast here. 
 

Time for everybody to move on at the end of the year.

 

Yep.  
 

One reason not letting him stay - Stefon Diggs. 
 

He’s not going to take this season poorly.  
 

But if wholesale changes happen with an offensive head coach that puts Diggs face on the playbook and not 12 personnel we avoid potential disaster, request for trade, or the usual and normal show up to OTA only to be sent home for a day.   

Edited November 6, 2023 by Big Blitz

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

If there is a change at this point in the season, I'd have to bet the choice is an in-house promotion again, just because you don't have a lot of time to install a new system.

 

Seems interesting that there haven't been any leaks.

If he's fired someone else will be the interim play caller just calling the plays of the same offense.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Warcodered

[Freddie's Dead]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Josh saying post game that he’s “just running the plays that were called” is mind-blowing to me.  This is HIS offense.  HIS offensive coordinator.  He’s in Year Six of this offense basically.  Is he not part of the weekly install?  Wtf is going on there?

 

Translation:  Don't blame me for my idiot coach calling the plays.

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, Sharky7337 said:

This really boils down the whole thing.

 

Let Josh help choose the OC, and then watch him slowly degrade from lack of good coaching is what we are seeing here.

 

Is that a fireable offense for McDermott and Beane? I don't know.

 

I think that decision has played out for 1.5 years and it isn't getting better.

 

Maybe having a Daboll in your face, fired up, helped Josh.

 

Its criminal with the talent on the team to be in line with the Jets, Steelers, Texans? all doing more with way way less. 

 

Im pretty sure Mike Tomlin's jock strap could do more with this, and he's not even an offensive coach.

Been thinking this all year but last year he was technically an mvp runner up.. 1 vote for him qnd 1 vote for Hurts

 

Just seems he's thinking too much. I want backyard football Josh back that'll throw check downs too

[90sBills]

48 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

there’s a middle ground where he can run but not lower his shoulder every single time. Mahomes does it very well, for instance. I’d be all for a lot more runs and a lot more trips to the sideline or sliding 

Lately I feel like Allen doesn’t see the field as well as Mahomes does when scrambling. Mahomes times his scrambles so well to maximize gains while avoiding contacts as much as possible. I’ve always thought Allen could do the same since he’s a better runner than Mahomes. But Allen seems to always scramble towards traffic for some reason. 

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, 90sBills said:

Lately I feel like Allen doesn’t see the field as well as Mahomes does when scrambling. Mahomes times his scrambles so well to maximize gains while avoiding contacts as much as possible. I’ve always thought Allen could do the same since he’s a better runner than Mahomes. But Allen seems to always scramble towards traffic for some reason. 

Josh scrambles to his right and the defense is designed to contain him doing just that. It has been a long while since he bailed on the pocket to the left.

[Billever76]

38 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

That has seemed to be indicated from the media types who have spoken of the dynamic. McDermott ought to have some leash to figure this out, and hopefully he would consult Beane on ways to "fix" the offense (including play-calling duty changes or outright personnel moves). There's also a case to be made for stability, but it seems that particular approach has run its course. Sure they might beat a Denver team at home, but I could also envision a scenario where that entire stadium starts chanting for an ouster.

McDermott is done here..whether you want to believe it or not...he has systematically ruined this team and is in way over his head....stay loyal to McDermott at the expense of allen 

[UKBillFan]

31 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

If there is a change at this point in the season, I'd have to bet the choice is an in-house promotion again, just because you don't have a lot of time to install a new system.

 

Seems interesting that there haven't been any leaks.

I’d like to see McDermott axed, Frasier brought back for the rest of the season as DC and - before the Wolverines furore - Harbaugh brought in as HC. Give Dorsey until the end of the season to sort things out with a HC who has offense in mind. If it doesn’t work out, let him go too.

 

But Frasier may not want to come back and, as said, there are issues surrounding Harbaugh so…

[90sBills]

7 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Josh scrambles to his right and the defense is designed to contain him doing just that. It has been a long while since he bailed on the pocket to the left.

I noticed that too. Obviously every defense's in the league has picked up on that as well. He needs to switch things up. 

[Since1981]

JA17--has had so little coaching historically until Daboll (Palmer). A couple years and POOF.

Team needs HC/OC with high stature or achievement or proven ability (some combination). Not some in-house wannabe. Continuity iNOT what we want. Josh is a $250M man and you can't have some schlep newbie making $200K telling him where he is wrong or needs advice he must hear. 

 

Team needs someone with stature, achievement, ability to interview and have our $250M Man respect and listen.

Oh yeah, and OC shouldn't suck either.

[2003Contenders]

Now that he is a veteran in the league, I am not sure that ANY potential OC would have that same sort of relationship with him that Daboll had. Remember, Daboll was with him from the very beginning and exerted that "tough love" that went beyond just a mentor-student relationship.

 

I suppose if a seasoned veteran with accolades/rings were to come in then the credibility would exist in such a way that a similar relationship could evolve. Not sure who would fit that bill.

[bmur66]

Allen needs a “ leader of men” type OC. Not a buddy of his.

[Boatdrinks]

9 hours ago, SWATeam said:

It's funny everyone killed Daboll for how he used Josh.  All the called QB runs and stuff, can't risk the franchise!  I think we all see now that without that dimension Josh is pretty ordinary, or at the very least- wildly inconsistent.  

So if you strip away the things that make Allen a unique athlete, he looks more ordinary ? Great analysis. Amazingly , the entire offense -and its components -look more ordinary too once you remove elements that made it difficult to defend. I think you may be on to something here ! 

[LanderPoke]

9 hours ago, SWATeam said:

It's funny everyone killed Daboll for how he used Josh.  All the called QB runs and stuff, can't risk the franchise!  I think we all see now that without that dimension Josh is pretty ordinary, or at the very least- wildly inconsistent.  

LMAO. He is a top 3 QB in the league and the stas bear it out. Bills fans don't deserve him. Holy crap

[TheyCallMeAndy]

9 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Dorsey is a bad, bad offensive coordinator. It’s just that simple. Josh wanting him as OC means nothing really with regards to scheme. He picked him because he was familiar with Daboll’s system and the team. 

This. He’s also a proven elite QB coach. Dorsey was the right hire for a magnitude of reasons. Dorsey hasn’t put it all together as an OC and likely will run out of time in Buffalo. We compare him to Dabs all the time but it’s unfair. This was Dabs 3rd stint as an OC and wasn’t elite until year 3 in Buffalo, and that was just the greatness he got from Allen.

 

Bills couldn’t run or block with Dabs coaching the offense, and the drops had been much worse. 
 

Dorsey, eventually, will be a great OC. It’s pointless to keep him because once he is great, he will have 3-5 years experience at that point and will get called up to be a HC someplace. 

[Boatdrinks]

5 hours ago, Billever76 said:

McDermott is done here..whether you want to believe it or not...he has systematically ruined this team and is in way over his head....stay loyal to McDermott at the expense of allen 

This is a great point - I wonder what Allen really thinks of the offensive struggles, the heavy focus on defensive players, and McDermott overall. In the end, Josh is the franchise - not McD. 

[Since1981]

Dorsey. Classic Peter Principle

”people tend to rise to "a level of incompetence” promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent“

[TheFunPolice]

12 hours ago, pocoboy said:

 

That has seemed to be indicated from the media types who have spoken of the dynamic. McDermott ought to have some leash to figure this out, and hopefully he would consult Beane on ways to "fix" the offense (including play-calling duty changes or outright personnel moves). There's also a case to be made for stability, but it seems that particular approach has run its course. Sure they might beat a Denver team at home, but I could also envision a scenario where that entire stadium starts chanting for an ouster.

 

Fire Dorsey is an easy chant.

[Big Blitz]

Number 2 QB in passing yards in the NFL:

 

Sam Howell

 

 

 

Eric Bienemy creeping up my list btw.  

 

[LABILLBACKER]

16 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Josh saying post game that he’s “just running the plays that were called” is mind-blowing to me.  This is HIS offense.  HIS offensive coordinator.  He’s in Year Six of this offense basically.  Is he not part of the weekly install?  Wtf is going on there?

Stop protecting coaches Josh and trying too hard to be the nice guy. Come forward and tell the truth. Say what you feel and what we've all seen in living color since the Cincy/Diggs blowup......  "the plays and coaching are holding us back".....the time for protecting Dorsey & Dermott are over.

[Dr.Sack]

8 games left, epic turnarounds have happened. Go 5-3. Punch a ticket to the postseason. Lots of things can happen b/n rubber mats and banana peels. I recall the 2010 Packers as my cause for optimism. 

 

[NickelCity]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

Number 2 QB in passing yards in the NFL:

 

Sam Howell

 

 

 

Eric Bienemy creeping up my list btw.  

 

 

It's hard to see him as someone suited to a HC position. Would love him as OC. 

[GunnerBill]

16 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Josh saying post game that he’s “just running the plays that were called” is mind-blowing to me.  This is HIS offense.  HIS offensive coordinator.  He’s in Year Six of this offense basically.  Is he not part of the weekly install?  Wtf is going on there?

 

Josh has said some odd things in post game pressers all season. His overall behaviour and demeanour continue to be a little strange. He definitely sounds and looks like at the very minimum he has lost confidence in Dorsey. 

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

Number 2 QB in passing yards in the NFL:

 

Sam Howell

 

 

 

Eric Bienemy creeping up my list btw.  

 

 

Meanwhile the offense he left is stuck in 2nd gear....

7 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

 

Dorsey, eventually, will be a great OC. 

 

Not sure I believe this.

[Tommy Callahan]

My wife that just watches football casually thinks that the offence runs much better when we go hurry up and Allen is calling plays at the line.  

 

 

[NCDAWG]

Where are the "leadership" meetings? Didn't we have "captains" that met regularly to discuss and fix such things?

[Saint Doug]

13 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

This. He’s also a proven elite QB coach. Dorsey was the right hire for a magnitude of reasons. Dorsey hasn’t put it all together as an OC and likely will run out of time in Buffalo. We compare him to Dabs all the time but it’s unfair. This was Dabs 3rd stint as an OC and wasn’t elite until year 3 in Buffalo, and that was just the greatness he got from Allen.

 

I’m not a Daboll apologist, but I think this is a bit much. Outside of coaching Cam Newton, a freak of an athlete, Dorsey had zero experience developing QBs coming to Buffalo. He was QB coach under Daboll, but now it’s obvious that success was more Daboll and less Dorsey. Outside of Newton, who probably would’ve been successful with whomever, his major qualification was that he was from Carolina. Let’s see Dorsey make a purse out of a pigs ear before calling him “elite”. 

[Steinsman1981]

The decision to let Josh take on a coaching role certainly had its pros and cons, and it's clear there were varying opinions on Dorsey as an offensive coordinator. Coaching careers can have different trajectories, just like Daboll's. Comparing Dorsey to him may not be entirely fair, as each coach has their unique path. The performance of the Bills can be influenced by coaching changes, impacting aspects like running and blocking. Dorsey might have needed more time to grow into the OC role. In the grand scheme of things, coaching decisions can made with the help of a coin flipper sometimes.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Steinsman1981

[Shemp]

Allen is a big dummy. Don't listen to who he wants.