Never thought I'd see a Josh Allen lead team on the outside looking in

[Big Blitz]

17 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

That's the problem.  It's not Josh Allen lead, it's McDummy lead.  Josh's talent is being completely wasted by this coaching staff.  They should have been gone after 13 seconds.

 

As that debacle all unfolded I said they all needed to be fired immediately you don’t come back from that.  I wanted to be wrong but it will be 2 seasons removed from that now and we’re regressing. 
 

I’m just too cut throat but will do what has to be done to get this city a SB and wouldn’t take comfort in my job security by just staying the course and trusting processes that worked circa 2017 to 2022.
 

Team is going to need new leadership and my fear is the people above Beane are going to simply take comfort in being good enough; don’t do anything too “risky” like get a new HC.

[transplantbillsfan]

13 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

No they were not.  Not even close. 

 

Sept. 16, 35, 43 were the points scored. It was a bad opener but the Bills destroyed the second two weeks.  That was not meh.

Oct. 40, 38, 31, 26 points scored.  We blew out 3 opponents including the Chiefs and even in our loss scored 31 points and should have won that game too.  That was not meh.

Nov. 6, 45, 15, 31 points scored.  Yeah, we had two clunkers but it was still not a meh month. Blew out 2 of the 4 opponents. 

 

Not sure what you were watching but it wasn't Bills football.

 

Not sure you watch anything other than Bills football.

 

Is this about making the playoffs or strictly offensive production?  I'm pretty confused because I assumed based off the thread title it was about making the playoffs.  But if it's about offensive production, Buffalo is 2nd in the NFL in total TDs.  Scoring across the NFL is down this year.  Look at the Chiefs.

 

Would you prefer to be the Chargers?  They're 3-4 and have scored 34, 24, 28, 24, 17, 17, & 30.

[Scott7975]

33 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Not sure you watch anything other than Bills football.

 

Is this about making the playoffs or strictly offensive production?  I'm pretty confused because I assumed based off the thread title it was about making the playoffs.  But if it's about offensive production, Buffalo is 2nd in the NFL in total TDs.  Scoring across the NFL is down this year.  Look at the Chiefs.

 

Would you prefer to be the Chargers?  They're 3-4 and have scored 34, 24, 28, 24, 17, 17, & 30.

 

This is about offensive production and making the playoffs.  The offensive production is not good enough which could keep them from making the playoffs.  I don't care about being 2nd in total tds as that is skewed from like 3 games out of 9.  Our last 5 weeks we have scored 20 ppg.  That is not good enough.  These weren't against some monster D's either.  If you can't see our offense sucked for a big portion of the season thus far then you aren't watching.  Average ppg in the NFL this year is the same as it was last year.  What does that have to do with our offense only scoring 20 ppg on average over the last 5 weeks? Even most of those points are late 4th qtr stuff where the offense did jack the first 3/4's. 

 

The Chiefs offense is down because they have no talent in skill positions other than an old hobbled Kelce.  Our talent on O is leagues better than the Chiefs this year. Last season it was about the same.  I also don't care about the Chiefs, or the Chargers, or anyone else.  I care about the Bills and for the last 5 weeks the Bills offense might as well be run by Tyrod Taylor.

 

That also has nothing to do with your post that you were clearly wrong about.  Do you care to address saying the offense was "meh in 2021 until Dec?"  I clearly showed you were wrong.  Instead of just admitting that, you completely changed the topic.

 

Would I prefer to be the Chargers?  No, I would prefer our Offense lives up to what it should be and stop wasting Josh Allen and trying to turn him to Tom Brady which clearly isn't working for him.  Design the offense to the strengths of our personnel instead of designing an offense based on what they want to be able to do with players they don't have.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

I think some people don't understand how bad last nights loss was for this team.  It's the difference between leading our division by a half game and being 9th on the outside looking in.  The AFC is tight.  Although we are 9th (2 slots out of the playoffs,) we are actually 1 game away from being 13th (6 slots out of the playoffs) and that's only because some of those teams had bye weeks already.  A loss to the Broncos could end up putting the Bills at the bottom... just above the Pats.  Thats disgusting.

 

There is zero room for error with the gauntlet of the schedule still coming up.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Scott7975

[DCofNC]

5 hours ago, ngbills said:

Wake me up when we are 7-4. 

Your family doesn’t deserve to deal with a 4 year coma over the Bills.

[zow2]

Have no fear, all 4 AFC East teams lost.  Division is still there for the taking. 

 

[Scott7975]

11 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Not sure you watch anything other than Bills football.

 

Is this about making the playoffs or strictly offensive production?  I'm pretty confused because I assumed based off the thread title it was about making the playoffs.  But if it's about offensive production, Buffalo is 2nd in the NFL in total TDs.  Scoring across the NFL is down this year.  Look at the Chiefs.

 

Would you prefer to be the Chargers?  They're 3-4 and have scored 34, 24, 28, 24, 17, 17, & 30.

 

You roll your eyes but you know I am right because you have nothing other than "but they were 7-6 two years ago and made the playoffs."

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, zow2 said:

Have no fear, all 4 AFC East teams lost.  Division is still there for the taking. 

 

 

It is but Miami has a fairly soft schedule in front of them.  Raiders, Commanders, Jets x2, Titans.  Their tough remaining games Ravens, Cowboys, us. 

[BillsMontreal]

I really feel we have too many -If- now.  

I want to be optimist, but i dont know how it could change. We made the same mistakes week after week and everywhere i watch, i just dont know how it could change suddenly.

 

Those players seems to be flat...and it is written in their face they dont believe in the game plan. I really think they lost them. They are pro and they saw what we saw.

 

This challenge on a 9 yards gain when a TO had a huge value say something.

 

The hurry up offense seems to work pretty well for us? Let stop it to help the defense...

 

This -play to not lose- culture begin to be really boring...and nothing to help, those injuries are huge for our defense. 

 

I hope i'm wrong. I will be there, i will root...but there's a lot of -If-, like i said. A lot!

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

The reality is a lot of afc teams are good, introducing week to week parity and the division games are completely unpredictable. 
 

 

[zow2]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

It is but Miami has a fairly soft schedule in front of them.  Raiders, Commanders, Jets x2, Titans.  Their tough remaining games Ravens, Cowboys, us. 

 

I agree, but the narrative in my head is that Miami is going to lose some games that we assume they're going to win. They are due.  And Buffalo will win a couple games we think they're going to lose. We are due.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:28 AM, Scott7975 said:

Even the Jets are ahead of us in the hunt.  I said this game was practically a must win.  I also said if the Bills lost this game a WC is unlikely and the Bills would need to win the division to make the playoffs.  There is zero room for error now and we are going to need help.  We lose the head to head against a wild card competitor.  We have too many conference losses against other teams in the hunt.  Buffalo is likely going to have to win out or lose maybe one and get some help.

 

Well, the Jets aren't ahead of us anymore, but to be fair anyone can win moving forward by punching a playoff ticket- the Bengals won against the Ravens, won at the Bills and almost won at KC.

 

Although it is possible the Bills could make a run, after what I have seen they would need to find one hell of a plastic surgeon to look great again, so we'll see.

Edited November 7, 2023 by EasternOHBillsFan

[Captain Hindsight]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

It is but Miami has a fairly soft schedule in front of them.  Raiders, Commanders, Jets x2, Titans.  Their tough remaining games Ravens, Cowboys, us. 

Raiders look pretty inspired, that team does have some talent. Jets D is very very good and the Titans play hard every week. I don't think those are gimmies for Miami

 

I hate that the Bills are in this position, but the Fins lost 5 straight last year with Tua playing. They are not invincible. Bills need to win their games, but Miami wont be coasting to the playoffs

[Scott7975]

53 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

I agree, but the narrative in my head is that Miami is going to lose some games that we assume they're going to win. They are due.  And Buffalo will win a couple games we think they're going to lose. We are due.

 

I really hope so.  I haven't given up on the season but it does look bleak.

33 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Well, the Jets aren't ahead of us anymore, but to be fair anyone can win moving forward by punching a playoff ticket- the Bengals won against the Ravens, won at the Bills and almost won at KC.

 

Although it is possible the Bills could make a run, after what I have seen they would need to find one hell of a plastic surgeon to look great again, so we'll see.

 

Yes there are like 4 teams that have the same 4 losses as us behind us but they have a game in hand because of bye weeks.

18 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Raiders look pretty inspired, that team does have some talent. Jets D is very very good and the Titans play hard every week. I don't think those are gimmies for Miami

 

I hate that the Bills are in this position, but the Fins lost 5 straight last year with Tua playing. They are not invincible. Bills need to win their games, but Miami wont be coasting to the playoffs

 

I don't think they will coast.  I also don't think they are invincible. I am just saying we have no room for error now and a pretty rough schedule coming up.  The offense still hasn't found its way and got its ***** together.

[transplantbillsfan]

11 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

You roll your eyes but you know I am right because you have nothing other than "but they were 7-6 two years ago and made the playoffs."

 

I rolled my eyes because you aren't allowing yourself to consider the similarities.  Here's a stroll down memory lane in terms of our feelings toward our offense and OC in 2021:

 

Similarities between 2021 and 2023 are pretty obvious, including the offensive inconsistency. In 2021, Buffalo's worst scoring outputs were 6, 10, 15 and 16 points whereas in 2023 the worst offensive outputs are 14, 16, 18 and 20.

[Logic]

I'm gonna be honest with you.

I have zero faith that this year's Bills would be able to string together the four good games in a row against quality opponents (three playoff games + Super Bowl) necessary to win a Lombardi.

So yes, of course I'll be hoping that they make the playoffs this year. But no, unless something about this team's performance fundamentally changes in the next couple weeks, I don't see it mattering much whether they do or don't.

This is the first time since 2020 that I've felt that the Bills just don't have it this year. Not that they're Super Bowl caliber and still piecing things together, not that they're an elite team who just hasn't hit their stride yet, not that they're in a midseason lull, no. None of that. Yes, it's hard to admit. Yes, it sucks. Yes, it's inexcusable based on the talent on this roster.

Tough times are coming, and there will be no easy answers. I find it very doubtful that Sean McDermott will be let go, even if the Bills finish with a losing season (I don't think they will anyway). So the main question is going to be whether they make a change at offensive coordinator, and whether and to what degree they invest more meaningful resources in the offense -- namely at wide receiver.

It's getting close to "hard decisions and hard discussions" time in Buffalo. Things need to change. Will they? 


 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Logic

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I rolled my eyes because you aren't allowing yourself to consider the similarities.  Here's a stroll down memory lane in terms of our feelings toward our offense and OC in 2021:

 

Similarities between 2021 and 2023 are pretty obvious, including the offensive inconsistency. In 2021, Buffalo's worst scoring outputs were 6, 10, 15 and 16 points whereas in 2023 the worst offensive outputs are 14, 16, 18 and 20.

Oh I am well aware of the people banging on Daboll.  I was one of them, but for specific reason not because of a 5 game slump.  In the year you refer to, we had a soft schedule after that 7-6 start.  There was no one else that was a real threat to the division.  Our O never looked this bad for that long of a stretch.  You refuse to see that part.

 

I'm not saying we aren't going to make the playoffs.  I am saying that it's going to be far more difficult this year to do so if we don't win the division.  It is also no given that we win the division this year either.  I know people were shaking in their boots about the Pats that year but I certainly wasnt one of them.  Miami is a real threat to it this year.  Maybe they fall apart but the Pats were just lucky af that year.  Miami hasn't been lucky.  They been blowing out the teams in their wins.

 

For the record, I appreciate the response.  I am not here for emojies.  I'm here for discussion.  I enjoy discussion. I aint always right and I will admit when I am wrong.  I do stand by myself with conviction until proven wrong though.  Thats just me.  Other than a certain poster around here I hold no ill will toward anyone. Im just here for talk.

4 hours ago, Logic said:

I'm gonna be honest with you.

I have zero faith that this year's Bills would be able to string together the four good games in a row against quality opponents (three playoff games + Super Bowl) necessary to win a Lombardi.

So yes, of course I'll be hoping that they make the playoffs this year. But no, unless something about this team's performance fundamentally changes in the next couple weeks, I don't see it mattering much whether they do or don't.

This is the first time since 2020 that I've felt that the Bills just don't have it this year. Not that they're Super Bowl caliber and still piecing things together, not that they're an elite team who just hasn't hit their stride yet, not that they're in a midseason lull, no. None of that. Yes, it's hard to admit. Yes, it sucks. Yes, it's inexcusable based on the talent on this roster.

Tough times are coming, and there will be no easy answers. I find it very doubtful that Sean McDermott will be let go, even if the Bills finish with a losing season (I don't think they will anyway). So the main question is going to be whether they make a change at offensive coordinator, and whether and to what degree they invest more meaningful resources in the offense -- namely at wide receiver.

It's getting close to "hard decisions and hard discussions" time in Buffalo. Things need to change. Will they? 


 

 

This is roughly where I am at as well.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Scott7975

[transplantbillsfan]

20 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Oh I am well aware of the people banging on Daboll.  I was one of them, but for specific reason not because of a 5 game slump.  In the year you refer to, we had a soft schedule after that 7-6 start.  There was no one else that was a real threat to the division.  Our O never looked this bad for that long of a stretch.  You refuse to see that part.

 

I'm not saying we aren't going to make the playoffs.  I am saying that it's going to be far more difficult this year to do so if we don't win the division.  It is also no given that we win the division this year either.  I know people were shaking in their boots about the Pats that year but I certainly wasnt one of them.  Miami is a real threat to it this year.  Maybe they fall apart but the Pats were just lucky af that year.  Miami hasn't been lucky.  They been blowing out the teams in their wins.

 

For the record, I appreciate the response.  I am not here for emojies.  I'm here for discussion.  I enjoy discussion. I aint always right and I will admit when I am wrong.  I do stand by myself with conviction until proven wrong though.  Thats just me.  Other than a certain poster around here I hold no ill will toward anyone. Im just here for talk.

 

I think you should wait until we're 7-6 or worse before proclaiming the 2021 comparisons are ridiculous.

 

So if we go 2-2 in our next 4 games, bring this back. I know you believe that is, at best, our record in the next 4 games, so remembering shouldn't be an issue.

[Scott7975]

50 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I think you should wait until we're 7-6 or worse before proclaiming the 2021 comparisons are ridiculous.

 

So if we go 2-2 in our next 4 games, bring this back. I know you believe that is, at best, our record in the next 4 games, so remembering shouldn't be an issue.

 

Well first I never said the comparisons are ridiculous unless I am more braindead than I thought.  I said they aren't the same. We don't have the same soft schedule, we don't have the same weak division, and we haven't looked THIS bad on a 5 game stretch.  

 

Secondly, these are my thoughts about where current things stand. I'll bring it back when I want.  That could be every week for an update on standings each week.  That might not even be until the end of the season where I can say I was right or wrong.  It won't be because I am so braindead that I can't remember my own thread though.  I'm not that damn stupid.

 

I mean, you are still running a Josh Allen MVP thread.  Should I insult your memory and tell you to bring that up at the end of the year when he once again doesn't win it?

Edited November 8, 2023 by Scott7975

[Aimee75]

I saw it coming from a mile away. It used to be The Bills and The Chiefs. They were the top dogs in the AFC, and it looked like would be constantly duking it out. Then, The Bengals arrive, a team that has The Bills number and that they have no answer for. Oh, but there is more, while the Bengals are emerging, other AFC teams are what the Bills were back in 2019, young and up and coming. The Jaguars, Steelers, hell, Miami goes all in during the off season to put Tua in the best position to win.

 

What did The Bills do? Stagnant off season and signed some cheaper players, like Andy Isabella etc We got dogwalked by Cincy and they did nothing to attempt to get us past them, or even equal. Now, we are in a hole with a hole bunch of emerging AFC teams, we don't catch any breaks and the AFC teams that might be outpacing us right now to get into the playoffs, no matter how middling some of them seem, keep finding out ways to pull wins out of their butts, especially against NFC teams.

 

We are in a hole right now, but I can honestly say I had a feeling this would happen in the off season. You can't bring a bunch of emotionally/mentally drained and aging players back and think they will play with fire inside of them. They look burned out, and possibly with all the crap they went through last season, and the season ending in painful disappointment each year, I think a lot of the guys are just phoning it in.

 

I feel like we needed a little bit of a shakeup, but we didn't get that, and now paying the price.

[KeLLy1278]

On 11/5/2023 at 9:28 PM, Scott7975 said:

Even the Jets are ahead of us in the hunt.  I said this game was practically a must win.  I also said if the Bills lost this game a WC is unlikely and the Bills would need to win the division to make the playoffs.  There is zero room for error now and we are going to need help.  We lose the head to head against a wild card competitor.  We have too many conference losses against other teams in the hunt.  Buffalo is likely going to have to win out or lose maybe one and get some help.

 

 

Yes I know 4 of those teams are from the same division and they will somewhat beat each other up, but we still have no room for error.  

Dude you’re reaching.  This is not a good team and it is poorly coached.  Even if they make the playoffs they will get their behinds handed to them so what’s the point?  To hope they get hot and win the SB?  The Miracle happened on 34th street, not in Buffalo.

This team has too many things to overcome.

[Scott7975]

5 minutes ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Dude you’re reaching.  This is not a good team and it is poorly coached.  Even if they make the playoffs they will get their behinds handed to them so what’s the point?  To hope they get hot and win the SB?  The Miracle happened on 34th street, not in Buffalo.

This team has too many things to overcome.

I’m reaching?  Seems you agree with me. Did you read my post?

[John from Riverside]

If we lose to Denver, we deserve what we get

[reddogblitz]

On 11/5/2023 at 10:14 PM, Boatdrinks said:

Yep. The coaches have effectively neutered Allen for long stretches of these games. It’s not a successful strategy. 

 

Allen neutered himself in the opener by throwing 3 picks and fumbling. That's not the coaches fault.  He plays like he's capable in that one and we've in first place  in the AFC East.

 

I know conventional TBD wisdom is it's all the coaches fault. A fair share of it is for sure.  But Allen deserves a share too for his screw ups. He got the fat contract, he needs to produce like he deserves it.

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Well first I never said the comparisons are ridiculous unless I am more braindead than I thought.  I said they aren't the same. We don't have the same soft schedule, we don't have the same weak division, and we haven't looked THIS bad on a 5 game stretch.  

 

Secondly, these are my thoughts about where current things stand. I'll bring it back when I want.  That could be every week for an update on standings each week.  That might not even be until the end of the season where I can say I was right or wrong.  It won't be because I am so braindead that I can't remember my own thread though.  I'm not that damn stupid.

 

I mean, you are still running a Josh Allen MVP thread.  Should I insult your memory and tell you to bring that up at the end of the year when he once again doesn't win it?

 

This is tiring. You're just going to keep moving goalposts.

 

I think you're talking offensive production. It's kinda hard to keep track at this point. Maybe you should clarify... team wins? QB stats? Offensive production? Defensive production? Wins against teams with winning records????

 

Seriously... what specifically is your argument? Your offensive production argument vs 2021 carries no weight. First of all, if you're thinking offensive production, we are NOT in a 5 game slump. Tampa and Jacksonville would be excluded. In both games we gained more yards than the average NFL yards gained this season along with scoring more points. Even if you want to exclude the London game arguing garbage time, you can't do that with the Bucs game.

 

Again, maybe you should wait a few games.

[Boatdrinks]

6 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Allen neutered himself in the opener by throwing 3 picks and fumbling. That's not the coaches fault.  He plays like he's capable in that one and we've in first place  in the AFC East.

 

I know conventional TBD wisdom is it's all the coaches fault. A fair share of it is for sure.  But Allen deserves a share too for his screw ups. He got the fat contract, he needs to produce like he deserves it.

Yep, that particular game was 90% on him , and he admitted as much. 

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Yep, that particular game was 90% on him , and he admitted as much. 

 

It’s worth discussing how much of the issue is Allen not performing versus his circumstances. Is he being put into situations where too much is being asked of him or is him in generally favorable situations and not coming through? I think the blame is a lot closer to 50/50 than 100/0 - something like 60/40 with a lean toward the circumstances (scheme, play calling, talent, etc.) Allen had been put in. Edited to add: Some of Allen’s 40 is probably frustration. 

 

This brings up the topic of reasonable expectations with a top QB like Allen. He’s been a top 3 QB in the league. It’s not reasonable to expect SB win after SB win, but it is very reasonable to expect more than what we’ve gotten. In fact, our playoff record with Allen playing as a top QB is a huge indictment of McDermott (and to a lesser extent, Beane). 

Edited November 8, 2023 by BarleyNY

[Matt_In_NH]

I find the lack of offensive production baffling.  People are hyper focused on Dorsey and Davis.   I don't think the #2 receiver is a logical explanation.  Sure Tee Higgins is an upgrade but I dont think they would change much with him over Davis.  There is plenty of success throwing to Kincaid and Shakir and Diggs.  Its not like there is no one to throw to.  One factor is how defenses are playing guys like Allen and Mahomes (also not having his typical year by the way).  The offenses have to find ways to counter what the defense is doing....that is on Dorsey.  However the one place people put their blinders on with is the play of Josh Allen....it's like he can do no wrong, when its not working it has to be everyone else's fault.  Yet he is the single most critical person who determines the success of the offense.   Joe Marino has shown clearly how he turns down easy throws at times.   Josh is throwing easier passes, completing a higher percentage of passes and actually throwing the ball away more than he has in the past yet his interception rate is the highest it has been since his rookie year.  That is one thing I thought would come down as he throws for less air yards and takes throw aways.  

[C.Biscuit97]

Allen has a part in this too. Like at the garbage receivers Mahomes has. They are both getting paid where they aren’t going to be surrounded by all pros at every position. They are going to have to carry their teams at times. 
 

Allen, while very low on the list of problems, needs to make better decisions and I don’t what has happened to his deep ball. But he has exactly been clean this year. He needs to be better

[zow2]

7 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Allen neutered himself in the opener by throwing 3 picks and fumbling. That's not the coaches fault.  He plays like he's capable in that one and we've in first place  in the AFC East.

 

I know conventional TBD wisdom is it's all the coaches fault. A fair share of it is for sure.  But Allen deserves a share too for his screw ups. He got the fat contract, he needs to produce like he deserves it.

 

The Allen stats are a bit misleading for sure.  Is he the reason they win games? of course.  But in these losses his play, especially first half is very frustrating.  Drives are stalling out on 3rd downs because he's careless and chucking the ball needlessly downfield into coverage, when the defenses are GIVING him the short routes.  Take what they are giving you and keep drives alive.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

The Allen stats are a bit misleading for sure.  Is he the reason they win games? of course.  But in these losses his play, especially first half is very frustrating.  Drives are stalling out on 3rd downs because he's careless and chucking the ball needlessly downfield into coverage, when the defenses are GIVING him the short routes.  Take what they are giving you and keep drives alive.

Those droughts against the Jets and Jags are the reason for those losses, not the injury depleted defense. 

[zow2]

14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Allen has a part in this too. Like at the garbage receivers Mahomes has. They are both getting paid where they aren’t going to be surrounded by all pros at every position. They are going to have to carry their teams at times. 
 

Allen, while very low on the list of problems, needs to make better decisions and I don’t what has happened to his deep ball. But he has exactly been clean this year. He needs to be better

 

His deep passes this year suck.  So many are low frozen ropes, no trajectory, no touch.  DB's can break those up without even turning around.  In prior seasons he was getting really good at throwing deep passes with touch, accurately, while getting some air under them and allowing receivers to run under.  That is gone.

[SWATeam]

26 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Allen has a part in this too. Like at the garbage receivers Mahomes has. They are both getting paid where they aren’t going to be surrounded by all pros at every position. They are going to have to carry their teams at times. 
 

Allen, while very low on the list of problems, needs to make better decisions and I don’t what has happened to his deep ball. But he has exactly been clean this year. He needs to be better

And the offensive production has been about the same.

 

The difference is, take away Chris Jones and half the rest of KC's defensive starters and see how they are doing?  Unfortunately the injury bug has bit too many of our best players and they all happen to be on the same unit.  Extreme bad luck that is nearly impossible to overcome.

[colin]

16 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I rolled my eyes because you aren't allowing yourself to consider the similarities.  Here's a stroll down memory lane in terms of our feelings toward our offense and OC in 2021:

 

Similarities between 2021 and 2023 are pretty obvious, including the offensive inconsistency. In 2021, Buffalo's worst scoring outputs were 6, 10, 15 and 16 points whereas in 2023 the worst offensive outputs are 14, 16, 18 and 20.

 

 

you make a strong point here, and anything is possible especially w allen at qb, so i will continue watching!

 

that said, im now of the opinion that daboll was a problem, just less of one than the rest of our staff.  dorsey was under dabloll the whole time anyhow, not like a sea change happened.

[oldmanfan]

While I don’t think Dorsey is doing a good job, the above also shows how folks complained about Daboll as well.  The question is what is going on behind the scenes in the QB room.  Was Daboll and is Dorsey pointing out when guys are open underneath and such, instructing Josh to go there, but he’s not seeing it on the field?  Is he refusing to take the easier route in favor of the throw downfield?  Are guys really not open and Josh has nowhere to go with the ball?  Are WRs making bad decisions on routes?  It is likely all are a part of it.  But there is little doubt the league’s DCs can read what we want to do now and know how to defend it.

[BarleyNY]

41 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

While I don’t think Dorsey is doing a good job, the above also shows how folks complained about Daboll as well.  The question is what is going on behind the scenes in the QB room.  Was Daboll and is Dorsey pointing out when guys are open underneath and such, instructing Josh to go there, but he’s not seeing it on the field?  Is he refusing to take the easier route in favor of the throw downfield?  Are guys really not open and Josh has nowhere to go with the ball?  Are WRs making bad decisions on routes?  It is likely all are a part of it.  But there is little doubt the league’s DCs can read what we want to do now and know how to defend it.

 

I think Daboll was blamed for everything on that side of the ball, whether or not it was his fault. This time around people see that there’s blame to go around with Dorsey/McD’s scheme & play calling, Beane/McD’s resource allocation and Allen & Co all having a share. 

[Buffalo03]

It happens sometimes. Did you know that the Colts had a non playoff season in prime Peyton Manning's 4th year? The Colts went 6-10. The Saints missed the playoffs with prime Drew Brees numerous times as well. It happens 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Buffalo03

[Scott7975]

On 11/8/2023 at 2:42 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

This is tiring. You're just going to keep moving goalposts.

 

I think you're talking offensive production. It's kinda hard to keep track at this point. Maybe you should clarify... team wins? QB stats? Offensive production? Defensive production? Wins against teams with winning records????

 

Seriously... what specifically is your argument? Your offensive production argument vs 2021 carries no weight. First of all, if you're thinking offensive production, we are NOT in a 5 game slump. Tampa and Jacksonville would be excluded. In both games we gained more yards than the average NFL yards gained this season along with scoring more points. Even if you want to exclude the London game arguing garbage time, you can't do that with the Bucs game.

 

Again, maybe you should wait a few games.

 

Im not moving any goal posts.  My thread is about missing the playoffs if we dont win the division.  Here is your weekly update... we are 10th in the race (3 spots out of the playoffs), tie breakers with almost no one, only  reason we aren't 14th is bye weeks and teams behind us not have played that game yet, Miami technically 2 games ahead of us in the division.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Scott7975

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

You shouldn't be surprised since he's a major catalyst of the failure machine.

 

He's so damned overrated 

[transplantbillsfan]

30 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Im not moving any goal posts.  My thread is about missing the playoffs if we dont win the division.  Here is your weekly update... we are 10th in the race (3 spots out of the playoffs), tie breakers with almost no one, only  reason we aren't 14th is bye weeks and teams behind us not have played that game yet, Miami technically 2 games ahead of us in the division.

 

Looks bleak right now