Bills @ Bengals postgame thread

[Scott7975]

I'm not blaming the refs for this loss but the refs were terrible this game and have overall been terrible in games all season

 

 

[Buffalo Ballin]

 

We have to hear more from Nick Wright, but he's right about the Bills.

[major]

I’m waiting for someone to suggest we hire belicheat in offseason

[JTown]

37 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Worried?  They haven't been the same since

I have said it a million times.   McClappy lost this team in 13 seconds.  The players do not believe in him.  I have a feeling that Diggs beef in the off season had more to do with McClappy and staff than Josh.  I wouldn't be surprised if Diggs gives up at this point.   

Where are the "Trust the process" faithful now?  

It's clear McClappy is lost, I wonder if he is still promoting the "Championship Caliber" Bs in the facility?  

It's a shame that he and his staff are wasting Allen's talent.   I know Allen's not perfect, but I don't think that this staff has done him any favors.  

[VaMilBill]

35 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

My plan: trade Allen to Chicago for their two first, a second an next year's first.

 

Fire the entire administration and start over. Because let's face it. They're a dead team walking short and medium term.

Totally agree with you. Get a QB and Marvin Harrison jr. Our offense would have plenty of weapons immediately for the rookie QB. Then we’d simply need to rebuild the defense. 
 

obviously both safeties would be cut, Davis let go, cut Von, resign Epenesa to a reasonable deal. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by VaMilBill

[Dr.Sack]

Just now, RiotAct said:

Swoon.

On the bright side we will be drafting mid 1st round. We probably can get a top 3 CB, top Safety, top RB, top DT, maybe even WR 2. 

[Koufax]

Not sure how we replace Dorsey midseason to get better, but I blame Dorsey so much. Our first drive was what we need to be doing, and then we went to establish the run and high risk deeper passing.

 

Good news is we have Broncos and Jets at home the next two weeks and a path to 7-4, before the season comes together with the Eagles, Chiefs, Cowboys stretch.

 

Right now we control our own fate for the division, despite having the harder schedule. Six games before our matchup in Miami, and if we match the Dolphins in that time we make that game mean the division.

[strive_for_five_guy]

Just now, Johnnycage46 said:

Punting!

Lol, well we need to bring the Punt God back in that case.

[Comebackkid]

2 minutes ago, BananaB said:

His WRs were also wide open all night long, is that not a problem?

a lot of times they were...but thats out defensive scheme for the most part.   It gives less athletic players a chance to make a  play and keep the play

 in front of them.   but..again thats a lot to do with injuries as well.   Also burrow was excellent at getting the ball out fast and accurately and for the most part his

receivers caught the ball.   the Bills dbs layed some big hits 

[Mark Vader]

Screw the officials.

How the Hell was that Intentional Grounding?!

[Nitro]

Just now, JTown said:

I have said it a million times.   McClappy lost this team in 13 seconds.  The players do not believe in him.  I have a feeling that Diggs beef in the off season had more to do with McClappy and staff than Josh.  I wouldn't be surprised if Diggs gives up at this point.   

Where are the "Trust the process" faithful now?  

It's clear McClappy is lost, I wonder if he is still promoting the "Championship Caliber" Bs in the facility?  

It's a shame that he and his staff are wasting Allen's talent.   I know Allen's not perfect, but I don't think that this staff has done him any favors.  

Bring in assistant coaches who have been within championship teams.  McD has no answers.

[Buffalo Ballin]

Trade QB Josh Allen? You're on your own on that island. Good luck.

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, dakrider said:

Zero running game, your 2nd receiver with zero receptions doesn't help.  Josh didn't play well in my book, but when your QB has over twice as many rushing yards as your running backs, then its usually not going to be a good day. 

Josh is clearly an elite talent in this league as has been proven since he came in.

 

You either believe it's time to rotate to an offensive HC or you still believe Dorsey and  Beane can deliver for the offense.

 

I personally believe we're going backwards offensively, not forwards.

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, VaMilBill said:

Totally agree with you. Get a QB and Marvin Harrison jr. Our offense would have plenty of weapons immediately got the rookie QB. Then we’d simply need to rebuild the defense. 
 

obviously both safeties would be cut, Davis let go, cut Von, resign Epenesa to a reasonable deal. 

 

You dont rebuild a team by trading one of the best QBs in the league.  Come on with this insane stuff.

[VaMilBill]

Just now, Koufax said:

Not sure how we replace Dorsey midseason to get better, but I blame Dorsey so much. Our first drive was what we need to be doing, and then we went to establish the run and high risk deeper passing.

 

Good news is we have Broncos and Jets at home the next two weeks and a path to 7-4, before the season comes together with the Eagles, Chiefs, Cowboys stretch.

 

Right now we control our own fate for the division, despite having the harder schedule. Six games before our matchup in Miami, and if we match the Dolphins in that time we make that game mean the division.

Maintaining the status quo isn’t going to work. It isn’t just this season but last season too. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Comebackkid said:

lets look at who's been teaching Josh the intricacies of football, beyond see receiver, throw the ball.   that was one of major reasons I hated the Dorsey hire.   Selecting what play to run is maybe a 10th of the job of an OC.   You take someone like Andy Reid and theres a vast amount of knowledge about every part of the offense that is taught to entire offense.   What does Dorsey have to offer knowlege and scheme wise beyond what josh and the players dont already know?  

The offense is regressing and its not surprising.   there's no knowledge, no insight being added and some of the things that were probably taught before arent now. 

 

 

Well Josh McDaniels is available if you want the guy who made Tom Brady great and won a bunch of SB's as OC.    

 

Sarcasm off.

 

Zac Taylor is a get-you-the-first-overall- pick level bad coach without Burrow.  He proved that.  Even the "great" Andy Reid had offense's that struggled with QB's and receivers who weren't good enough.   One year he went a whole season without his QB throwing a TD pass to an actual WR.   Kyle Shanahan can make a middling QB with excellent weapons look good...........until they get behind on the scoreboard..........then he is like 0-38 when trailing by 8 or more in the 4th quarter or something absurd like that.    Aaron Rodgers won a SB with Mike McCarthy as his OC.    The list goes on.

 

QB's and weapons almost always make the offensive mind look great...........not the other way around.

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:

And he’s being sent to Chicago? What’s Josh done to deserve that?

 

I’m going to make a hot take. I don’t blame Dorsey. I think - with no proof - that McDermott is calling for the offense to slow the clock to protect the defense. Everyone knows what gets this offense into rhythm. No huddles, designed runs from Josh, fast play. It worked on the first drive so why abandon it? Is Dorsey that stupid? Some may say yes, but I don’t think so. McDermott baulked that the weakened defense would buckle so wanted the offense to slow down and pile up the TOP.

 

For me, McDermott has to accept the Bills best chance of winning games is accepting a shootout. Do that against the Pats and the Bills would have won. Defeat tonight in isolation is fine. I bet most of us had it down as a loss when the schedule came out. Probably expected to find the Rodgers-led Jets a problem in week one and the London trip a banana skin too. It’s the Pats defeat which means a surprise win is really required. It just didn’t come tonight.

I was responding to another poster who suggested we do this.

 

Collinsworth was saying the same thing.  Let Allen play in a way that makes him the most dangerous.  In the 4th quarter the Bengal's couldn't stop the Bills as they reverted to Allen running and throwing he ball all over the field.  For the last 4 seasons this is how Allen has played and he hasn't missed a game.  IMO putting a Governor on Allen is about Bean wanting Allan's career to last another 10+ years so he can use him as a glorified ATM machine.  This way he can extend Allen and free up money to make more defensive free agent signings.  Of course this only works from a CAP perspective if Allen remains elite over an extended period of time.

 

4 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Miller is a month away from contributing this season. Gotta get him time in games though; practice these days isn’t gonna cut it. 

I think that's their theory but they're losing games as they get him back in shape.  And whose to say that he's ever going to get back to where he was? 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

 

We have to hear more from Nick Wright, but he's right about the Bills.

I ditched all of Fox early last season and it's been a great change. 

[Nitro]

Watching the game in person it looks evident that Allen focuses on one side of the field.  He does not use his eyes to move the safety off or make the LB drop deeper in coverage.  Diggs is a great WR but he was not getting open in this game.  Uneven performance from the QB and the whole offense. 

[Simon]

8 minutes ago, BananaB said:

His WRs were also wide open all night long, is that not a problem?

 

You don't have the foggiest idea who was open 

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I'm not blaming the refs for this loss but the refs were terrible this game and have overall been terrible in games all season

 

 

That really has to be up there as one of the worst roughing the passer calls ever made.

[VaMilBill]

Just now, Nitro said:

Watching the game in person it looks evident that Allen focuses on one side of the field.  He does not use his eyes to move the safety off or make the LB drop deeper in coverage.  Diggs is a great WR but he was not getting open in this game.  Uneven performance from the QB and the whole offense. 

It seems like all season josh has just been looking for Diggs to a fault. Josh needs to adapt his game 

[Comebackkid]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Well Josh McDaniels is available if you want the guy who made Tom Brady great and won a bunch of SB's as OC.    

 

Sarcasm off.

 

Zac Taylor is a get-you-the-first-overall- pick level bad coach without Burrow.  He proved that.  Even the "great" Andy Reid had offense's that struggled with QB's and receivers who weren't good enough.   One year he went a whole season without his QB throwing a TD pass to an actual WR.   Kyle Shanahan can make a middling QB with excellent weapons look good...........until they get behind on the scoreboard..........then he is like 0-38 when trailing by 8 or more in the 4th quarter or something absurd like that.    Aaron Rodgers won a SB with Mike McCarthy as his OC.    The list goes on.

 

QB's and weapons almost always make the offensive mind look great...........not the other way around.

 

 

why isnt Josh making Dorsey look great then?   

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

2 turnovers were the difference.  Minus those 2 plays, I think we win.

 

these injuries are out of control tho 😞 

I came on here to just throw a few thoughts out there.   I was at the game.

 

These are the first two points, and as you suggest, they may the only two things that really matter.   

 

It's basic football - if you have evenly matched teams, turnovers will play a big role in the outcome.  Kincaid fumble was a real killer.   Allen badly underthrew the INT.  He had Davis, and it's a throw he's made many times. 

 

The defense actually did okay, holding a really good offense to 24 points.   But the defense wasn't good enough to make enough stops.  On the last Bengal drive, Boyd burned Johnson bad, but that's what I mean by a really good offense.  When a team comes at you with three wideouts like they have, and with a QB who is one of the most accurate throwers I've even seen, you're going to give up plays.   Holding them to 24 was good, especially because the Bills were playing with guys I didn't even recognize.   Dodson or Williams made a really dumb play by coming on a late blitz and leaving their tight end open for the TD that was the game winner.   Bernard and Milano likely would have played that right.  

 

Pass protection was weak.  

 

Allen needs to be part of the attack - his runs in the second half opened things up for the offense.  

 

Bengals fans are very nice, and they were all orange and black, but they don't make noise like Bills fans.  They're pretty noisy, but not as loud or as consistently as we are.  They're kind of too busy singing Sweet Caroline.   And they have a stupid touchdown song.   But they do have a good football team.  

 

McDermott's got a lot of work to do, patching that defense together.  

 

And to say what I've said so often for so long, I think offensively the season is on Dorsey.  His quarterback should not be standing back there looking around wondering where he can find an open receiver.  I thought Allen looked much better running the offense when they went no huddle last week.  He seemed more engaged, he was studying the field pre-snap.   Maybe they can't go no huddle in a noisy environment.  Whatever it is, Allen's receivers should be getting open on schedule, and either they aren't or Allen doesn't know where to find them.  

[Comebackkid]

Just now, VaMilBill said:

It seems like all season josh has just been looking for Diggs to a fault. Josh needs to adapt his game 

The offense has been all over the place.   some games we spread the ball all around....See last week , see maimi.    some weeks we only throw to diggs regardless.

some weeks are more like today...  in between

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Well Josh McDaniels is available if you want the guy who made Tom Brady great and won a bunch of SB's as OC.    

 

Sarcasm off.

 

Zac Taylor is a get-you-the-first-overall- pick level bad coach without Burrow.  He proved that.  Even the "great" Andy Reid had offense's that struggled with QB's and receivers who weren't good enough.   One year he went a whole season without his QB throwing a TD pass to an actual WR.   Kyle Shanahan can make a middling QB with excellent weapons look good...........until they get behind on the scoreboard..........then he is like 0-38 when trailing by 8 or more in the 4th quarter or something absurd like that.    Aaron Rodgers won a SB with Mike McCarthy as his OC.    The list goes on.

 

QB's and weapons almost always make the offensive mind look great...........not the other way around.

 

 

AMENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN Brother. 

 

And this team continues to ride a DOUGHNUT at #2 WR. 

 

Signed a $4M/year WR and he got 0 snaps in this game except the one deep ball. 

 

If they re-sign Gabe this offseason they get what the deserve. 

 

He is a black hole. 

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I was responding to another poster who suggested we do this.

 

Collinsworth was saying the same thing.  Let Allen play in a way that makes him the most dangerous.  In the 4th quarter the Bengal's couldn't stop the Bills as they reverted to Allen running and throwing he ball all over the field.  For the last 4 seasons this is how Allen has played and he hasn't missed a game.  IMO putting a Governor on Allen is about Bean wanting Allan's career to last another 10+ years so he can use him as a glorified ATM machine.  This way he can extend Allen and free up money to make more defensive free agent signings.  Of course this only works from a CAP perspective if Allen remains elite over an extended period of time.

 

I think that's their theory but they're losing games as they get him back in shape.  And whose to say that he's ever going to get back to where he was? 

Agree on the first part. As for Miller , he may or may not. He won’t if he’s not playing snaps in games though. Practices are just too soft these days to ramp up to game shape off that injury. He looks a bit better each week, but I still think he’s a month away. This D realistically is not winning any games right now. The 2023 Bills will only go as far as Josh Allen can take them : if they let him. 

[Billz4ever]

At this point, I think McD and Dorsey have coached the winning out of Josh.

 

This current offensive scheme is not compatible with Josh's talent.

 

It's a shame.

[Comebackkid]

1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

AMENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN Brother. 

 

And this team continues to ride a DOUGHNUT at #2 WR. 

 

Signed a $4M/year WR and he got 0 snaps in this game except the one deep ball. 

 

If they re-sign Gabe this offseason they get what the deserve. 

 

He is a black hole. 

yet last week didnt he lead the offense?   

[CincyBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

You dont rebuild a team by trading one of the best QBs in the league.  Come on with this insane stuff.

It's a byproduct of the drought years.  All that wishful thinking and draft plotting every year.  Obviously that guy from USC will come in and just tear the league up and Harrison will follow in the footsteps of Jefferson.  Like children, fans just can't resist the shiny new toys on the shelf.

 

 

[ngbills]

We had two receivers trip on each other. That shows how we spread the field. 

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

12 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Cool… happy for ya ! 

Happy for you too brotha!  Congrats!

[UKBillFan]

7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I was responding to another poster who suggested we do this.

 

Collinsworth was saying the same thing.  Let Allen play in a way that makes him the most dangerous.  In the 4th quarter the Bengal's couldn't stop the Bills as they reverted to Allen running and throwing he ball all over the field.  For the last 4 seasons this is how Allen has played and he hasn't missed a game.  IMO putting a Governor on Allen is about Bean wanting Allan's career to last another 10+ years so he can use him as a glorified ATM machine.  This way he can extend Allen and free up money to make more defensive free agent signings.  Of course this only works from a CAP perspective if Allen remains elite over an extended period of time.

 

I wonder if there is an internal battle at Orchard Park about how Josh should approach the game. Some think he should keep to what works and take the mess with the magic whilst others want to try and develop him further to cut the mess and, if it affects the magic, so be it if reduces turnovers. It’s only supposition but, if so, it’s not surprising the offense is unpredictable and the use of Josh changes drive by drive. I know his old approach cost the Bills against the Jets but it’s won a load more games too. Is it time to call for original Josh and stomach the flies in the ointment?

Edited November 6, 2023 by UKBillFan

[ngbills]

Meanwhile Hopkins has 188 yards and 3 tds the last two games. 

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

That really has to be up there as one of the worst roughing the passer calls ever made.

Check out the one on WAS vs Pats today though. Might be worse. Mac Jones didn’t even pass the ball on the play and then he fumbled as he was sacked. Mind boggling stuff. 

Just now, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

Happy for you too brotha!  Congrats!

For what ? 

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

It's a byproduct of the drought years.  All that wishful thinking and draft plotting every year.  Obviously that guy from USC will come in and just tear the league up and Harrison will follow in the footsteps of Jefferson.  Like children, fans just can't resist the shiny new toys on the shelf.

 

 

You speak truth, and unlike the other people on here, we have to live here until the Bengals lose to the Ravens in two weeks. 

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

Von Miller was the worst free agent signing since ______________ …

All of the $$$ and draft equity tied up into that DL, and still they constantly have to send extra rushers at the QB, and they still can’t get home when it matters… just a huge failure as a whole organizationally.

 

Barring Josh flipping a switch and becoming unstoppable, this team is toast. It’s time to move on from this regime, and give Josh a chance to work some elite offensive minds.

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

At this point, I think McD and Dorsey have coached the winning out of Josh.

 

This current offensive scheme is not compatible with Josh's talent.

 

It's a shame.

Anyone can see this too. Heck , even Collinsworth. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, Comebackkid said:

yet last week didnt he lead the offense?   

Here is what he does:

 

W1 - 2/32

W2 - 6/92

W3 - 1/35

W4 - 3/61

W5 - 6/100

W6 - 3/21

W7 - 1/6

W8 - 9/87

W9 - 0/0

 

5/9 Weeks he's under 40 yards with Josh Allen as his QB and playing 95% of the snaps. 

 

HE IS AWFUL. 

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, Billz4ever said:

At this point, I think McD and Dorsey have coached the winning out of Josh.

 

This current offensive scheme is not compatible with Josh's talent.

 

It's a shame.

Yes it's a shame and no their approach to offense is not taking advantage of what Allen brings to the table.  They didn't try to change Allen that much last season and in spite of the offense feeling choppy at times the team still went 13 - 3, had a top 2 Offense statistically, won the division and a playoff game.  This season Dorsey, Bean & McD had a whole off season to work their "magic".  They would change Allen into Burrow & Purdy - yea that's the ticket.