The Good, The Bad and the Ugly. Sunday Oct 15. NY Giants version.

[Chaos]

THE GOOD
 

BIlls got the W. Other than that, nothing about the coaching, playing or officiating had anything worthy of being called good. 

 

Apologies, I forgot we learned that Miniature Horses were allowed in the stadium this week.   That was also good. 
 

THE BAD

 

1. Preparation.  Sean McDermott has been the head coach for 6 years now.  We still see too many games, where the Bills simply look unprepared.   I am sure I am hyper sensitive to the Bills in this regard.  But even when the Chiefs or Niners, or top historical teams lost, I don't recall many situation where I thought "these guys were not ready".   NOTE THIS IS A VERBATIM REPEAT OF THE BAD FROM THE LONDON GAME. The lack of preparation from the travel planning to two piss poor weeks of execution of made the entire Bills organization look amateurish. (Amateur product is today's overall theme)

 

THE UGLY

 

1. Offensive Game Plan  Roller Coaster.  Barely worth elaborating on.  Dorsey's game plan was amatuer hour last night.  So was the play calling
2. Offensive execution.  Bills online looked like it had five backups playing against the 85 bears at time. 
3. Head Coaching - Time management and play calling in the final two minutes prevented closing out a game once again. Fans at most high schools would be mad at their coaches for a similar display. Amateur  Only Giant's inepeitude prevented the Bills from losing at the end
4. Defensive execution.  Against a back up QB, and five backup onlinemen, their should have been 10 sacks and a couple of turnovers.  Instead Taylor typically had enough time in the pocket to compose this post. 
5. Defensive  coaching in clutch situations.  Defense can't be relied on to close out a game.  If the Bills do not have the ball a lead, or on defense with a nine point lead with two minutes remaining in game, there is no reason to expect the defense to close out the game.  Thirteen seconds maybe the grand daddy of all of these failures, but McDermott's defense, like Fraiziers, can't be relied on to close out a game. Just a reminder the Giants had their second string QB in the game, and entire offensive line of backups. 
6. Special teams.  Bass gets an F.  (he has been a great player, but subjecting fans to two "wide rights" against the Giants is actually an F-. 
7. Officiating - a)tangled feet my ass b) letting the Giants defense catch their breath for 5 minutes, while they sorted out an obvious offsetting penalty situation was almost as amateur hour as Bills offensive play calling. 
8. Commentary - not the worst Collinsworth ever was.  But still Colliinsworth. By the end he seemed to genuinely feel sorry for Bills fans being subject to this nonsense.  There was also this bizzare commentating threa throughout the game that Daboll knew the Bills inside and out, without even once suggesting McDermott should have a clue about Taylor (whom he coached) or Daboll whom he supervised.   

 

State consumer product officials should probably require the NFL, Buffalo Bills, and NY Giants to recall last nights game, due to the fact that it was completely defective. 

 

 

 

 

.

[Bubba Gump]

The good? A lucky win

 

The bad? Everything else!!! That game was a clown show. Giants would've won if Daboll wasn't an idiot. But I'd still bring him back over Dorsey. 

[Prospector]

I agree, how can we not close out that offense?! seriously! Even if they started on the 50 every drive, they shouldn't have gotten more than 1 FG attempt!

[ngbills]

1 minute ago, Prospector said:

I agree, how can we not close out that offense?! seriously! Even if they started on the 50 every drive, they shouldn't have gotten more than 1 FG attempt!

3 plays for 1 yd was not good enough?

[Chaos]

6 minutes ago, ngbills said:

3 plays for 1 yd was not good enough?

With an assist from a defensive holding non-call. 

[Prospector]

12 minutes ago, ngbills said:

3 plays for 1 yd was not good enough?

and leading up to that?

[The Jokeman]

Good despite Harris going out in an ambulance we remained relatively healthy. Williams and Bernard look quick and solid tacklers. I wonder if we could see a true 43 D in the future. 

[corta765]

28 minutes ago, Chaos said:

THE BAD

 

1. Preparation.  Sean McDermott has been the head coach for 6 years now.  We still see too many games, where the Bills simply look unprepared.   I am sure I am hyper sensitive to the Bills in this regard.  But even when the Chiefs or Niners, or top historical teams lost, I don't recall many situation where I thought "these guys were not ready". 

 

This in factually wrong. Go to other teams boards and fan bases after a loss who we consider equal to like KC/SF and the sentiment is real. Truth is when your a fan of a team and watch weekly you know your team better then most and know what their peak play is and what their crap is. I think when your team is good year in year out you remember the high standard and anything less is failure. To me that isn't a bad attitude necessarily as much as just years of play being at a certain point. Conversely I felt during the drought days I was so use to the team being bad, when they were good I was almost surprised and waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

I do not at all disagree that they were not prepared, but I think your other good teams the fans feel the same way. I have a post up on offenses being down across the league, I am sure KC fans are not thrilled with how their offense looks. Their saving grace is the SB's they've won and amount of success during that. I have a few Raven peeps I know who they are beyond annoyed with their team because it feels like they only play 3-4 games a year their at their best.

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, corta765 said:

This in factually wrong.

Facutally, I did not refer to other fans.  It was a personal observation.  It is 100% accurate as my personal observation. 

[Jerome007]

Well, your personal observation is wrong. Not that I liked the last two outings ha ha. But the Bills have rarely been blown out under McD, while it happens to even top teams usually one time per year. 

 

The TD pass to Deonte Harty was all Dorsey... for the otherwise really piss poor game plan. He stuck to the running game too. 

 

Yes, Bas having two wide rights against the Giants IS bad ha ha. But over 50 yard is no gimme. I did find very weird the way he put himself in position on that second missed kick. Is he injured?

[flmike]

D gave up only 9 points. Offense was truly offensive

[Goin Breakdown]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

With an assist from a defensive holding non-call. 

And hardly any time off the clock

[JerseyBills]

Bass was #1 for me

He's automatic and should've added 6 to our score

 

Also how can you blame a defense that gave up 9 points , regardless of circumstances 

[Utah John]

So what's reasonable to think about the offensive struggles?  The Bills looked so good against the Raiders, Commanders, and Dolphins.  The Commanders and Dolphins both have good defenses and yet the Bills offense strafed them.  

 

The Bills go to London.  They have only a couple of days to jerry-rig an offensive game plan, then head to the UK way too late and are up against a rested team that's had a full week to analyze the Bills' offense and figure out how to interfere with it.  So the Bills offense is crap.  

 

The Bills travel back, and lose a day they would ordinarily have to prepare for the Giants.  Their HC didn't have a week to prepare to play the Bills -- he's had a year and a half of thinking about it.  Look at all the comments Daboll has made about the Bills -- complimentary to everyone except McDermott.  There's something bad going on between them.  Daboll really really wanted to win last night.  He's been obsessed for a 18 months.  Stuck in traffic, ponder how to confuse Josh.  Sitting on the can, think about defensive line adjustments against the plays he crafted and then passed on to Dorsey.  Mowing the lawn, figure out how to disguise DB alignments.  

 

Other teams take notice.  Their DCs analyze what the Commanders and Dolphins did and why that didn't work, and they analyze what the Jags and Giants did and why that DID work.  So strap it on, Dorsey.  You need the full 50 gallon size bag of tricks -- the little grocery sack you've using won't cut it.

[RangerDave]

I thought the Bills' goal line defense was excellent.  Twice.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Giants were holding all night on offense and defense…that seemed like their game plan as I’m sure Daboll watched the chiefs shut the bills down like that time after time when he was OC loL. its one of life’s greatest ironies that this much hoopla is being made about one missed hold late in the game. 
 

goal line/short yardage defense was outstanding.  Second half josh was outstanding. Guys we haven’t had much faith in continue to play well on the defensive side. 

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

Bass was #1 for me

He's automatic and should've added 6 to our score

 

Also how can you blame a defense that gave up 9 points , regardless of circumstances 

So your saying, if the point total is low, its unreasonable to expect a "good" defense to stop a team with five backup lineman and a back up QB to stop a game winning drive? 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

9 minutes ago, Chaos said:

So your saying, if the point total is low, its unreasonable to expect a "good" defense to stop a team with five backup lineman and a back up QB to stop a game winning drive? 

People aren’t really understanding the link between offense and defense it feels like…our defense can’t get anyone off the field which leads to worse field position, being behind on TOP, and the opposing defense stays fresher.

 

the giants defense has been hung out to dry by their offense all year long so nobody really knows what they are capable of.  They actually possessed the ball on offense decently for once which allowed that defense to fly all over the field for all four quarters. Usually they play well then gas out just before halftime because their offense has like 30 yards with 1 or 2 first downs lol then they put some long meaningless drive together in garbage time to even out the numbers a bit 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[JerseyBills]

5 minutes ago, Chaos said:

So your saying, if the point total is low, its unreasonable to expect a "good" defense to stop a team with five backup lineman and a back up QB to stop a game winning drive? 

They did. 9 points is phenomenal 

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, Chaos said:

So your saying, if the point total is low, its unreasonable to expect a "good" defense to stop a team with five backup lineman and a back up QB to stop a game winning drive? 

They did stop them. 

[Chaos]

Just now, FireChans said:

They did stop them. 

huge assist from the non-call on the last play. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

huge assist from the non-call on the last play. 

That's just football baby.

 

They had 9 points when they started their drive. They had 9 points when the clock read zero.  That's a stop. 

[Dr.Sack]

I think these kind of games show how good your QB really is. Hurts and Purdy failed this week. Meanwhile Mahomes, Burrow & Allen all squeaked out Dubs. 

[Nuncha]

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Nuncha

[buffaloboyinATL]

18 hours ago, Chaos said:

THE GOOD
 

BIlls got the W. Other than that, nothing about the coaching, playing or officiating had anything worthy of being called good. 

 

Apologies, I forgot we learned that Miniature Horses were allowed in the stadium this week.   That was also good. 
 

THE BAD

 

1. Preparation.  Sean McDermott has been the head coach for 6 years now.  We still see too many games, where the Bills simply look unprepared.   I am sure I am hyper sensitive to the Bills in this regard.  But even when the Chiefs or Niners, or top historical teams lost, I don't recall many situation where I thought "these guys were not ready".   NOTE THIS IS A VERBATIM REPEAT OF THE BAD FROM THE LONDON GAME. The lack of preparation from the travel planning to two piss poor weeks of execution of made the entire Bills organization look amateurish. (Amateur product is today's overall theme)

 

THE UGLY

 

1. Offensive Game Plan  Roller Coaster.  Barely worth elaborating on.  Dorsey's game plan was amatuer hour last night.  So was the play calling
2. Offensive execution.  Bills online looked like it had five backups playing against the 85 bears at time. 
3. Head Coaching - Time management and play calling in the final two minutes prevented closing out a game once again. Fans at most high schools would be mad at their coaches for a similar display. Amateur  Only Giant's inepeitude prevented the Bills from losing at the end
4. Defensive execution.  Against a back up QB, and five backup onlinemen, their should have been 10 sacks and a couple of turnovers.  Instead Taylor typically had enough time in the pocket to compose this post. 
5. Defensive  coaching in clutch situations.  Defense can't be relied on to close out a game.  If the Bills do not have the ball a lead, or on defense with a nine point lead with two minutes remaining in game, there is no reason to expect the defense to close out the game.  Thirteen seconds maybe the grand daddy of all of these failures, but McDermott's defense, like Fraiziers, can't be relied on to close out a game. Just a reminder the Giants had their second string QB in the game, and entire offensive line of backups. 
6. Special teams.  Bass gets an F.  (he has been a great player, but subjecting fans to two "wide rights" against the Giants is actually an F-. 
7. Officiating - a)tangled feet my ass b) letting the Giants defense catch their breath for 5 minutes, while they sorted out an obvious offsetting penalty situation was almost as amateur hour as Bills offensive play calling. 
8. Commentary - not the worst Collinsworth ever was.  But still Colliinsworth. By the end he seemed to genuinely feel sorry for Bills fans being subject to this nonsense.  There was also this bizzare commentating threa throughout the game that Daboll knew the Bills inside and out, without even once suggesting McDermott should have a clue about Taylor (whom he coached) or Daboll whom he supervised.   

 

State consumer product officials should probably require the NFL, Buffalo Bills, and NY Giants to recall last nights game, due to the fact that it was completely defective. 

 

 

 

 

.

So I am starting to think we need to add an offensive minded assistant head coach, to help coordinate the the offensive game plan during the game, while McDermott focuses on the Defense.

 

We need him 100% focused on the Defense, but someone has to help Dorsey with overall strategy in real time. 
 

I think replacing him in season is a bad idea, because we don’t want to “start over” so maybe getting him some help will work. 

[Chaos]

17 hours ago, FireChans said:

That's just football baby.

 

They had 9 points when they started their drive. They had 9 points when the clock read zero.  That's a stop. 

How many points do you think the Bills would score against a good defense with five starting lineman down, and Kyle Allen at QB? Because that is essentially what the giants had to throw at our good defense. 

[Bubba Gump]

On 10/16/2023 at 6:45 PM, Utah John said:

So what's reasonable to think about the offensive struggles?  The Bills looked so good against the Raiders, Commanders, and Dolphins.  The Commanders and Dolphins both have good defenses and yet the Bills offense strafed them.  

 

The Bills go to London.  They have only a couple of days to jerry-rig an offensive game plan, then head to the UK way too late and are up against a rested team that's had a full week to analyze the Bills' offense and figure out how to interfere with it.  So the Bills offense is crap.  

 

The Bills travel back, and lose a day they would ordinarily have to prepare for the Giants.  Their HC didn't have a week to prepare to play the Bills -- he's had a year and a half of thinking about it.  Look at all the comments Daboll has made about the Bills -- complimentary to everyone except McDermott.  There's something bad going on between them.  Daboll really really wanted to win last night.  He's been obsessed for a 18 months.  Stuck in traffic, ponder how to confuse Josh.  Sitting on the can, think about defensive line adjustments against the plays he crafted and then passed on to Dorsey.  Mowing the lawn, figure out how to disguise DB alignments.  

 

Other teams take notice.  Their DCs analyze what the Commanders and Dolphins did and why that didn't work, and they analyze what the Jags and Giants did and why that DID work.  So strap it on, Dorsey.  You need the full 50 gallon size bag of tricks -- the little grocery sack you've using won't cut it.

 

I said that to the 2 guys I have sat next to for years. I am almost convinced that Daboll told his guys to stir ***** up right from the get go. He knows McD doesn't have the most disciplined coaching style. The Giants were taking cheap shots all night. And I'm glad the Bills didn't back down. But the officials had no control of that game. The brawl in the endzone drew a flag from every official, and a couple of hats. Somehow after 5 mins of BS they call 1 penalty on each team? And #99 for the Giants should've been thrown out. Not sure if they showed it on TV, but after the 2 handed shove to Brown, he jumped on top of him and punched him right in the face(mask). I thought that was an automatic ejection. 

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

I said that to the 2 guys I have sat next to for years. I am almost convinced that Daboll told his guys to stir ***** up right from the get go. He knows McD doesn't have the most disciplined coaching style. The Giants were taking cheap shots all night. And I'm glad the Bills didn't back down. But the officials had no control of that game. The brawl in the endzone drew a flag from every official, and a couple of hats. Somehow after 5 mins of BS they call 1 penalty on each team? And #99 for the Giants should've been thrown out. Not sure if they showed it on TV, but after the 2 handed shove to Brown, he jumped on top of him and punched him right in the face(mask). I thought that was an automatic ejection. 

He balled his hand to make a fist and did not throw it 

 

Super close from going from dumb to super dumb... But he didn't throw it 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Comebackkid]

8 hours ago, Chaos said:

How many points do you think the Bills would score against a good defense with five starting lineman down, and Kyle Allen at QB? Because that is essentially what the giants had to throw at our good defense. 

Except Taylor with all his faults is better than Kyle Allen.   I don't think they have let him make a throw yet this season

[Bubba Gump]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

He balled his hand to make a fist and did not throw it 

 

Super close from going from dumb to super dumb... But he didn't throw it 

 

Were you there? Maybe you had a better view than me. Im around midfield 38 rows up on the Bills side. Maybe we all just had a bad angle. But everyone around me thought the same thing. That he threw the punch. It looked like he did to me, and that's when he got pummeled. Either way, the refs f'd up that whole situation. Off setting PF penalties?? Seriously?? There were 15 flags and a couple hats on the field. The officiating this year has been beyond horrible. Still, a frustrating game to watch. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Bubba Gump

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

Were you there? Maybe you had a better view than me. Im around midfield 38 rows up on the Bills side. Maybe we all just had a bad angle. But everyone around me thought the same thing. That he threw the punch. It looked like he did to me, and that's when he got pummeled. Either way, the refs f'd up that whole situation. Off setting PF penalties?? Seriously?? There were 15 flags and a couple hats on the field. The officiating this year has been beyond horrible. Still, a frustrating game to watch. 

I understand it was a frustrating play

 

And just going back and watching replays on TV it looked like he did not finish the strike

 

Ran towards Brown on the ground.. balled his hand into a fist... Looked like he was gonna throw it , then it looked like something got the best of him and he didn't continue with it

 

From the replay I don't think he actually finished the punch

 

 

Does look like 99 holds back at the last second

Edited October 18, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Bubba Gump]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I understand it was a frustrating play

 

And just going back and watching replays on TV it looked like he did not finish the strike

 

Ran towards Brown on the ground.. balled his hand into a fist... Looked like he was gonna throw it , then it looked like something got the best of him and he didn't continue with it

 

From the replay I don't think he actually finished the punch

 

 

Does look like 99 holds back at the last second

 

Thanks for that video. Great replays. And you're 100% right. He didn't throw the punch. We just had a bad angle. Another thing I didn't see was Thibodeaux kicking 10 times. If anyone should've been tossed, it should've been him. Maybe Dawkins too. It looked liked he may have thrown a fist. All in all, a horrible job by the officials. The Giants started the dirty ***** from the first play and didn't stop. From what I've read, I guess Daboll has a serious issue with McD. Also, some speculation that Chad Hall left because of McD. 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

Thanks for that video. Great replays. And you're 100% right. He didn't throw the punch. We just had a bad angle. Another thing I didn't see was Thibodeaux kicking 10 times. If anyone should've been tossed, it should've been him. Maybe Dawkins too. It looked liked he may have thrown a fist. All in all, a horrible job by the officials. The Giants started the dirty ***** from the first play and didn't stop. From what I've read, I guess Daboll has a serious issue with McD. Also, some speculation that Chad Hall left because of McD. 

There's always going to be some speculation

 

But I would say McDermott... Is probably really heated about how chippy the game got

 

It's the same in boxing.. every boxer who's outclassed... Knows the only way you have a chance... Is to get into the other boxers head... Make it dirty and chippy... Get him outside his comfort zone

 

And you have a chance

 

It's the same thing between two unevenly matched football teams... And daboll played the rat

 

And that's certainly would not strike good with McDermott

Edited October 18, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Pete]

On 10/16/2023 at 5:04 PM, flmike said:

D gave up only 9 points. Offense was truly offensive

Bills D should be 6-0.  Offense should be 3-3. 

 

Josh not running does not work when the WRs cannot get separation.  And Dorsey is not clever enough to compensate

Edited October 18, 2023 by Pete

[Utah John]

17 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

I said that to the 2 guys I have sat next to for years. I am almost convinced that Daboll told his guys to stir ***** up right from the get go. He knows McD doesn't have the most disciplined coaching style. The Giants were taking cheap shots all night. And I'm glad the Bills didn't back down. But the officials had no control of that game. The brawl in the endzone drew a flag from every official, and a couple of hats. Somehow after 5 mins of BS they call 1 penalty on each team? And #99 for the Giants should've been thrown out. Not sure if they showed it on TV, but after the 2 handed shove to Brown, he jumped on top of him and punched him right in the face(mask). I thought that was an automatic ejection. 

FWIW, even if 99 wasn't caught punching Brown, the NFL will review the tapes and see what's what.  Hefty fine if he really did punch Brown in the face -- also possibly busted fingers if he wasn't careful where he punched -- and a slight chance of a suspension.

 

The message I learned after that brawl, when the Giants got 3 UCs and the Bills got 1 and they all offset, was that if there's a brawl, go for it, big time.  Don't actually punch anyone, which if seen will get you ejected, but definitely gang up on a single opponent and bury the poor guy.  As long as there's a single UC penalty on the other side, it's time for some NHL action.

 

There were missed calls favoring both sides, all through the game.  I think the final play was perfect -- just enough contact to disrupt the play, not enough to draw a flag, and plenty to put the Giants and their fans into a mental tailspin. 

[Utah John]

8 hours ago, Pete said:

Bills D should be 6-0.  Offense should be 3-3. 

 

Josh not running does not work when the WRs cannot get separation.  And Dorsey is not clever enough to compensate

There are 2-3 first downs every game just sitting there, waiting -- no, begging -- for Josh to run up and take them.  But Zoloft Josh is turning down those opportunities, and throwing into coverage instead.  And the defenses know he isn't going to run.  So they stick like glue to the receivers and ignore Josh.  What he needs to do is start taking those running opportunities, to force the defense to respect that.  THAT'S what's needed to get the receivers some space; except for Diggs they don't seem to be able to do it on their own.

[billsfan89]

Good 

 

1. Second half offense - They only had 3 possessions on offense in the second half they scored TD's on two of them and missed a field goal on the other. What impressed me is that they ran completely down the throats of the strongest part of the Giants defense. Yes the Giants are banged up massively but their DT combo is one of the best in the league and their MLB is very good. As bad as the first half offense was they got it going in the second half. 
2. Dorian Williams and Bernard - Bernard looked the part early this season but his first full game without Milano and he still looked good. Dorian has some growing pains but he was all over the field. 
3. Defense comes up clutch - The Bills defense bailed out the offense with clutch play after clutch play. 
4. Trap game bottled up quickly - The Giants noticed the over-eager defense and called two very smart trap plays that got off 20+ yards. But the Bills snuffed it out very quickly the next few times it was called. 

Bad

 

1. Elam still having growing pains - Elam still let up a few big plays against a bad passing attack. Wasn't a complete liability out there but still a long way to go. 
2. Lack of Non-Diggs WR production - A frequent critique is that WR's not named Diggs and TE's are not producing. 
3. First-half playcalling - Dorsey took forever to switch to a power-running game. Basically tanked the first-half offense by not adjusting by Q2. 
4. Josh Allen Pick - The only reason this does not get into the ugly category is because this was a very good defensive play. This turnover cost the Bills a chance to attempt to get points at the end of the half. 

Ugly

 

1. Bass missing two kicks - They weren't chip shots but the misses hurt. The first miss hurt the Bills chance to "stop the bleeding" and come away with something. The second miss avoided nearly icing the game (still a one-possession game but would have put the Bills in a very solid position). 
2. Sloppy Gabe Davis fumble - This fumble really killed the offense's chance at establishing some rhythm and led to the Giants' first field goal. By far one of those plays that really set the tone for the game in a bad way for the Bills. A sloppy somewhat unforced error. 
3. Seeing another Bills player get carted off in an ambulance - Glad to hear this may be more of a Dane Jackson situation with Harris but its always very scary to see this. 

 

Overall a really ugly win. Maybe the "ugliest" win in NFL history but they don't grade them they count them. 

[BuffaloBill]

On 10/16/2023 at 3:39 PM, Chaos said:

THE GOOD

Apologies, I forgot we learned that Miniature Horses were allowed in the stadium this week.   That was also good. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chaos]

37 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Overall a really ugly win. Maybe the "ugliest" win in NFL history but they don't grade them they count them. 

A caddy once told me "we are writing down numbers, not pictures" after I skipped a ball off of a pound onto a green.   He was right.  But it did not change the fact about how bad my golf game was.  The picture would have been more reflective of my real skill, than the number we wrote down. .. 

[Big Turk]

Wink Martindale coached the Giants D like he was fired up from getting thrown off as the host of Tic Tac Toe again.