2023 MVP: Lamar will win it with 15 fewer TDs than Josh Allen (end of season talk pg 75+)

[Ralonzo]

16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Purdy-est Player?

 

[Scott7975]

 

[Ralonzo]

11 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

 

So if Allen throws for 300 yards and loses to the Cowboys, he's #3 in the league at worst in passing yards. Instead he's a bum lagging behind Sam Howell and some rookie. Am I doing this right?

[ChrisWatson#21]

I can’t say it enough that what a privilege it is to watch him play for our beloved Bills.  We probably won’t see another QB like him in a Bills uniform for a very very long time after he is done.  What a fun watch he is😎🍿

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

13 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

My take on this issue is:

 

Real MVPs (mean most to team) are Josh, Lamar and Jalen

 

 

I’m not convinced Jalen is in the Josh and Lamar category. Hurts team is pretty loaded. And the large majority of his rushing TD’s are from tush pushes. 
 

Allen and Lamar score from much further distances on the ground. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

9 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I’m not convinced Jalen is in the Josh and Lamar category. Hurts team is pretty loaded. And the large majority of his rushing TD’s are from tush pushes. 
 

Allen and Lamar score from much further distances on the ground. 

You could be right and I forgot Mahomes.

[Goin Breakdown]

12 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

So if Allen throws for 300 yards and loses to the Cowboys, he's #3 in the league at worst in passing yards. Instead he's a bum lagging behind Sam Howell and some rookie. Am I doing this right?

This, plus how many games has he sat during the 4th quarter this season? 3 right?  I may be wrong on that. You can't get yards if you're enjoying a win from the bench. 

[Doc]

With 3 more TDs Josh becomes first player in NFL history with 4 consecutive 40 TD seasons.

[Luka]

On 12/20/2023 at 9:48 AM, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

My take on this issue is:

 

Real MVPs (mean most to team) are Josh, Lamar and Jalen

 

If you can't have those guy's just because (Who I'd pick since it's mostly about numbers and being on a good team now)  Christian, Tyreke

 

Who the media is pushing because they love a good manufactured story: Purdy

 

Purdy's production says otherwise. 

 

It's not Brock's fault that McDermott took so long to fire Dorsey. 

[Orlando Tim]

I accept that Purdy has better numbers than Josh in some ways but if we are going to value to their team then Josh is clearly higher than Lamar or Jalen. I honestly would argue CMC over Purdy and can accept that he is best player in league but going straight by stats is dumb. 

[finn]

20 hours ago, Doc said:

With 3 more TDs Josh becomes first player in NFL history with 4 consecutive 40 TD seasons.

If Allen wins MVP, this will be a key reason why. Scenario: Allen keeps scoring TDs and avoiding interceptions and the Bills win the division. His stats, especially that key one, plus the Cinderella Bills story, might be enough, especially if Purdy lays an egg against a very good Baltimore defense. But even if he doesn't, voters may ask, "Who is more essential to their team: Purdy or Allen?" The answer is pretty clear. 

 

Incidentally, Mahomes' rep really has taken a hit, hasn't it? I get a sense people are getting tired at worshiping at his alter. 

[Punching Bag]

On 12/18/2023 at 1:57 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

This is getting really confusing for me.

 

How in the world does anyone honestly think that Lamar, Tua, or Mahomes deserve Pro Bowl for the AFC over Josh?  I say deserve, because we all know that the Pro Bowl is just a popularity contest, but if you're just looking at these players and their stats and what they've done for their teams in a vacuum, it's not even close.

 

Josh no longer leads the NFL in total yards, but he's 50 yards behind Mahomes, who does.  I accounted for sack yardage there, too, since sack yardage is usually accounted for in the passing game. Lamar is way behind Josh, Tua and Mahomes... like almost 200 yards behind Josh.

 

Josh has 12 more TDs than Mahomes and Tua and 15 more TDs than Lamar.

 

Mahomes and Tua only have 2 fewer turnovers than Josh and Lamar only has 4 fewer.

 

I think of all QBs in the NFL, Josh would (or should) be 2nd in NFL MVP voting behind only Purdy, and I still think Purdy gets dinged with the roster he's playing on and the MVP candidate he's playing with.

 

But I'm seriously so confused especially at the Lamar love this year.  He's been average at best when compared with all these other QBs.

 

If I had a real vote I'd vote CMC first and Josh 2nd.

[BigDingus]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

If I had a real vote I'd vote CMC first and Josh 2nd.

 

I'd vote CMC or possibly Tyreek. 

 

CMC needs no explaination, but Tyreek was so good, it made people suddenly start talking about TUA as an MVP candidate last year...

 

He's been on of the most impactful trade acquisitions in ages. A few years ago, I thought Cooper Kupp could've been MVP over Rodgers, but Tyreek makes a good case for a WR MVP too.

 

That being said, I'd hate to see a Dolphins player win MVP, so screw him...

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

12 hours ago, Orlando Tim said:

I accept that Purdy has better numbers than Josh in some ways but if we are going to value to their team then Josh is clearly higher than Lamar or Jalen. I honestly would argue CMC over Purdy and can accept that he is best player in league but going straight by stats is dumb. 

When the DC of the other team looks at the 49ers before the game and asks who do we need to stop? Purdy is down the list. When they look at the Bills and Ravens it's pretty clear its Josh and Lamar you have to deal with first.

Edited December 23, 2023 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[transplantbillsfan]

Funny how much that INT is going to hurt Allen. Really tough throw. Not necessarily a bad decision, just a bad throw.

 

Regardless, 1st QB in NFL history with 40+ TDs in 4 consecutive seasons.

 

That actually surprised me cause I thought Mahomes reached that.

 

Plus...

 

1st and only QB in NFL history to run and pass for a TD in 11 games in a season.

 

Survive and advance...

 

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Funny how much that INT is going to hurt Allen. Really tough throw. Not necessarily a bad decision, just a bad throw.

 

It's just annoying because of how unnecessary it was. Allen has definitely crossed the line of reckless versus aggressive too many times this year. This is the kind of game where the last thing you want is to gift Easton Stick any kind of momentum... I don't mind the INT he had against the Eagles for example, it's a shootout against a Super Bowl caliber opponent and he had over 50 pass attempts. Having a dumb INT on 20 pass attempts against a bad opponent is just poor awareness of the game situation. There was just no need for a cross the body deep throw in this game against this opponent.

 

But then he totally redeemed himself by making several ridiculous throws on his clutch final drive to seal the game.

[Warcodered]

9 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's just annoying because of how unnecessary it was. Allen has definitely crossed the line of reckless versus aggressive too many times this year. This is the kind of game where the last thing you want is to gift Easton Stick any kind of momentum... I don't mind the INT he had against the Eagles for example, it's a shootout against a Super Bowl caliber opponent and he had over 50 pass attempts. Having a dumb INT on 20 pass attempts against a bad opponent is just poor awareness of the game situation. There was just no need for a cross the body deep throw in this game against this opponent.

 

But then he totally redeemed himself by making several ridiculous throws on his clutch final drive to seal the game.

This ***** ***** annoys me, Diggs was open it's not like he under threw him by a lot the DB actually made a hell of a play, Allen gets that a bit higher or the DB is a step late and Diggs is ***** gone. But no he not only makes it but makes a catch some of our WRs have failed to do routinely in games.

 

Seriously Allen has any other QBs luck this season that's a TD, big gain, or a broken up pass. Hell Stick had an easy pick that got erased on ticky-tack BS defensive holding, and then on the second to last play of the game he threw that gets popped up with defenders around and no one came down with it. Let's not get started on the number of times Dak failed to directly throw it to a defender last week or I might lose my ***** mind.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Warcodered

[julian]

18 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's just annoying because of how unnecessary it was. Allen has definitely crossed the line of reckless versus aggressive too many times this year. This is the kind of game where the last thing you want is to gift Easton Stick any kind of momentum... I don't mind the INT he had against the Eagles for example, it's a shootout against a Super Bowl caliber opponent and he had over 50 pass attempts. Having a dumb INT on 20 pass attempts against a bad opponent is just poor awareness of the game situation. There was just no need for a cross the body deep throw in this game against this opponent.

 

But then he totally redeemed himself by making several ridiculous throws on his clutch final drive to seal the game.

They win so many more games than they lose because of his willingness to not give any f*cks. The sooner we learn to embrace his brilliant/reckless play style the better because he’s not changing and thank god for that.

Edited December 24, 2023 by julian

[transplantbillsfan]

22 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's just annoying because of how unnecessary it was. Allen has definitely crossed the line of reckless versus aggressive too many times this year. This is the kind of game where the last thing you want is to gift Easton Stick any kind of momentum... I don't mind the INT he had against the Eagles for example, it's a shootout against a Super Bowl caliber opponent and he had over 50 pass attempts. Having a dumb INT on 20 pass attempts against a bad opponent is just poor awareness of the game situation. There was just no need for a cross the body deep throw in this game against this opponent.

 

But then he totally redeemed himself by making several ridiculous throws on his clutch final drive to seal the game.

 

I mean... yeah... it sucked. I don't blame Allen for trying it, though. Diggs was open if Allen could've gotten it to him. Problem is he was throwing the ball probably 60 yards across the field while fading away.

 

I legitimately wonder if Allen put everything into that throw or not.

 

As it was, that play was a 2nd and 7. If it were a 3rd and 7 we'd just be viewing it as a 41 yard punt.

 

Problem was what the defense gave up much of the game.

[HappyDays]

14 minutes ago, julian said:

They win so many more games than they lose because of his willingness to not give any f*cks. The sooner we learn to embrace his brilliant/reckless play style the better because he’s not changing and thank god for that.

 

I know he needs to be aggressive for us to have any chance. Our skill players are not going to make big plays happen all their own. Just in games against bad offenses he can afford to play more reserved, that's all. Still I recognize he was the only reason we scored points today and had to overcome a lot of bad play from the talent around him.

[transplantbillsfan]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

I know he needs to be aggressive for us to have any chance. Our skill players are not going to make big plays happen all their own. Just in games against bad offenses he can afford to play more reserved, that's all. Still I recognize he was the only reason we scored points today and had to overcome a lot of bad play from the talent around him.

 

This team was in massive trouble without Allen today. We reversed course from last week as far as needing Allen to win.

 

Case in point: Allen had 1 turnover while OTHER had 2 turnovers.

 

Buffalo was on the road and lost the turnover margin 3 to 0. How often do teams win on the road when losing the turnover margin by that much?

 

I was worried about this game immediately after that debacle last week and then even more after the Chargers fired Staley.

 

Allen (and Oliver) carried us on his (their) shoulders and nothing else matters.

[transplantbillsfan]

 

[julian]

18 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I know he needs to be aggressive for us to have any chance. Our skill players are not going to make big plays happen all their own. Just in games against bad offenses he can afford to play more reserved, that's all. Still I recognize he was the only reason we scored points today and had to overcome a lot of bad play from the talent around him.

Yeah I agree on the surrounding talent, hopefully Bean continues to make offense a priority.

 

 OCyrus and McGovern and Kincaid were a good start and they need to continue to add.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's just annoying because of how unnecessary it was. Allen has definitely crossed the line of reckless versus aggressive too many times this year. This is the kind of game where the last thing you want is to gift Easton Stick any kind of momentum... I don't mind the INT he had against the Eagles for example, it's a shootout against a Super Bowl caliber opponent and he had over 50 pass attempts. Having a dumb INT on 20 pass attempts against a bad opponent is just poor awareness of the game situation. There was just no need for a cross the body deep throw in this game against this opponent.

 

But then he totally redeemed himself by making several ridiculous throws on his clutch final drive to seal the game.

Diggs was wide open. Had his man beat badly. So I don’t mind the attempt. Execution has to be better though .What I have noticed is that he is missing his receivers short a lot this year whereas in years past he has often over thrown them. 

[BullBuchanan]

Allen still isn't anywhere near top 5 for MVP and he probably went back even further after his performance today. This thread was silly when it was started but each week it goes on approaches lunacy.

[JGMcD2]

21 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Diggs was wide open. Had his man beat badly. So I don’t mind the attempt. Execution has to be better though .What I have noticed is that he is missing his receivers short a lot this year whereas in years past he has often over thrown them. 

I mean that one was tough. He was rolling to his right and threw the ball back across his body to the other hash like 40-50 yards? 
 

Can anyone else even do that?

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

Allen still isn't anywhere near top 5 for MVP and he probably went back even further after his performance today. This thread was silly when it was started but each week it goes on approaches lunacy.

Sooo what happens when he finishes top 3? 

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, JGMcD2 said:

I mean that one was tough. He was rolling to his right and threw the ball back across his body to the other hash like 40-50 yards? 
 

Can anyone else even do that?

Sooo what happens when he finishes top 3? 

I guess he'll get to carry his runner-up to the runner-up MVP trophy at the Bills annual "at least we made the playoffs" parade in January.
 

[Aussie Joe]

7 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Allen still isn't anywhere near top 5 for MVP and he probably went back even further after his performance today. This thread was silly when it was started but each week it goes on approaches lunacy.

I think JA is the fourth  favourite now… Purdy overwhelming leader 

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Allen still isn't anywhere near top 5 for MVP and he probably went back even further after his performance today. This thread was silly when it was started but each week it goes on approaches lunacy.

And this is why you're obviously nothing but a troll and no one should take anything you say seriously. Really when this thread started, it was after the Dolphins game, he was most likely the MVP favorite at the time. Just very low level effort this time, you can troll better.

[JGMcD2]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I guess he'll get to carry his runner-up to the runner-up MVP trophy at the Bills annual "at least we made the playoffs" parade in January.
 

Cool. We should probably just trade him honestly, he kind of sucks. 

[BullBuchanan]

39 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Cool. We should probably just trade him honestly, he kind of sucks. 

I guess the only two options for him in your mind is "Greatest player in the league" or "terrible".  I guess it isn't enough that he's a top 5 QB that makes incredible plays and plays incredible games while also having terrible plays that drag down his potential. Oh well. You'll have to keep on blaming the refs for why he doesn't wint he Super Bowl every year and a league-wide conspiracy for him not being crowned the first active player to be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

[JGMcD2]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

I guess the only two options for him in your mind is "Greatest player in the league" or "terrible".  I guess it isn't enough that he's a top 5 QB that makes incredible plays and plays incredible games while also having terrible plays that drag down his potential. Oh well. You'll have to keep on blaming the refs for why he doesn't wint he Super Bowl every year and a league-wide conspiracy for him not being crowned the first active player to be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

You’re the gift that keeps on giving. 

[BullBuchanan]

43 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

And this is why you're obviously nothing but a troll and no one should take anything you say seriously. Really when this thread started, it was after the Dolphins game, he was most likely the MVP favorite at the time. Just very low level effort this time, you can troll better.

Right. He was the leading mvp candidate back in Week 4 when he was a couple games removed from getting demolished by the Jets?

He definitely wasn't.

[Thurman#1]

"Narratives against him," that's classic. It'd be hard to find a clearer case of confirmation bias.

 

Up and down play is what's against him. We saw it again in L.A.

 

Still an absolutely excellent QB. Simply doesn't look like the MVP this year though.

3 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

You’re the gift that keeps on giving. 

 

 

He's giving you just what you asked for. 

 

He argues that he's really good but has some significantly poor plays also. You go right to "trade him." You're getting just exactly what your posts deserve.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Right. He was the leading mvp candidate back in Week 4 when he was a couple games removed from getting demolished by the Jets?

He definitely wasn't.

 

On 10/4/2023 at 11:01 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

🤔

 

Like it wasn't even hard.

 

Seriously troll better. 

[BullBuchanan]

22 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

🤔

 

Like it wasn't even hard.

 

Seriously troll better. 

What wasn't hard? Finding a tweet that supported your opinion? *shocked*

You understand that prop betting odds aren't dictated solely by what is most likely to happen, right? What am I saying, of course you don't. You guys aren't even football fans, you're just Bills stans. You have a complete lack of respect for the immense amount of talent in this league and it's on full display here.

Purdy could spot Allen a full game and he still wouldn't catch him. He probably won't catch Dak either and he should be miles behind CMC.

 

 

 

 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

 You guys aren't even football fans, you're just Bills stans.

I'm sure your team's fanbase is great, well I'm sure the rest are at least an improvement on their ambassador. 

[Buffalo Ballin]

If we manage to somehow win our division, our Josh Allen should be league MVP. No cap.

[dma0034]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

If we manage to somehow win our division, our Josh Allen should be league MVP. No cap.

 

I think if the Bills end up with the #2 seed then there will be a lot of talk about Allen being MVP. He's going to have 45 Total TDs which will lead the league. Only big obstacle is the TO narrative.

[UKBillFan]

Josh writes his narrative. Yesterday being a case in point. He is a rollercoaster this season in particular, the superb mixed with some dross. He won't win MVP because the TO start is against him; one which he has created.

 

McCaffrey or Hill should win it - as much as I like Purdy (more than most) a decent starting QB would be doing the same thing in that 49ers team. Take McCaffrey or Hill out of their respective teams and they look very different. And yes, to counter my first paragraph, the same goes for the Bills for Josh. He is the reason they are 9-6 this year, and not something like 4-11. But could also be argued he's the reason they're not 12-3 too.