mrags Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 27 minutes ago, pennstate10 said: Uhh…. Just because they talk about it on sports talk radio doesn’t mean it’s true. Barkley was never offered a 2 yr $26 mil guaranteed contract. Now who looks stupid? Didn’t read the articles I posted huh. I mean, if he stays healthy and plays in every game it is exactly 2 years 26m reading is hard 25 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: No tag clause in the new contract. They cant tag him again. Also, pro athletes ARE in fact the heaviest taxed high earners. They dont have the same abilities to shelter and skirt like the true wealthy. Their pay is all fully taxed. They cant defer salary to stock options and cash out a year later to only pay long term capital gains. Most of the players arent financially savvy enough to find even the most basic loop holes. False. There is not a no tag clause in this new contract. Already reported they can tag him again next year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, SCBills said: Giants have no chance if they had to start over with a rookie while leaning on a massive multi-year deal for an elite RB that’s dealt with injuries prior to this past year. Ummm.... San Francisco 49ers?🤷 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Just now, Solomon Grundy said: Ummm.... San Francisco 49ers?🤷 Wow we shouldn’t have drafted Josh in the first because Brady was a sixth round pick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Todays RBs need a Tomlinson. A RB that does everything on the field can line up everywhere and is durable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Wow we shouldn’t have drafted Josh in the first because Brady was a sixth round pick! Sometimes a blind squirrel finds a nut😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: Ummm.... San Francisco 49ers?🤷 Barkley is elite .. he’s not McCaffrey (imo) McCaffrey is an elite RB and an elite slot WR. Also, the Giants roster is not elite at almost every other position.. Theres no Bosa, no Warner, no Kittle, no Deebo etc.., And most importantly, no Kyle Shanahan. (For as good as Daboll is, Shanahan is unique). Edited July 25, 2023 by SCBills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 9 minutes ago, mrags said: False. There is not a no tag clause in this new contract. Already reported they can tag him again next year Ah true, true. Seeing that now. My bad. Earlier tweet I saw was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: Ummm.... San Francisco 49ers?🤷 Yet they’ve spent massively on QBs and just keep missing. Building that type of success can happen though. They are also a poster boy for running back by committee. Even putting WRs at RB. Then they trade for McCaffery. They are a weird team. I don’t think they know what they’re doing at QB or RB. They were fine with the committee approach. Edited July 25, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted July 25, 2023 Author Share Posted July 25, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Jones Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 43 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: No tag clause in the new contract. They cant tag him again. Also, pro athletes ARE in fact the heaviest taxed high earners. They dont have the same abilities to shelter and skirt like the true wealthy. Their pay is all fully taxed. They cant defer salary to stock options and cash out a year later to only pay long term capital gains. Most of the players arent financially savvy enough to find even the most basic loop holes. Yep, you’re 100% spot on. Not sure why somebody gave my post about it a thumbs down. 🙄 These multi millionaire earners should definitely pay their due, as should all mega rich people. Ironically, I’m a libertarian, so I would be all for massive reductions of all taxes, but as it stands today, it is what it is, and mega rich need to pay the tax man. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 14 minutes ago, SCBills said: It 100% does. These comparisons are honestly getting ridiculous. Giants have a chance to make the playoffs with Daniel Jones, who is a Carr/Cousins ceiling QB, in the NFC. Giants have no chance if they had to start over with a rookie while leaning on a massive multi-year deal for an elite RB that’s dealt with injuries prior to this past year. They’re in that weird mid-level/back-end of the Top 10-12 QB category. Probably not good enough to win big, or consistently with.. but in a weak conference, the QB makes them a playoff contender and they’d need to tank the season if they had thoughts of Caleb Williams or Drake Maye. Barkley maybe adds a win or two to their record. Jones is what makes them a playoff contender… even with the weaknesses he has. Except none of this true. Not a single team worries about Jones. It starts and ends Barkley. It literally was the first non losing season of Jones’ career. He killed then with turnovers. In todays nfl, having 15 td passes as a full time starter is awful. It was bad in the 90s. It is horrible now. The best thing about Jones last year is he didn’t murder them with turnovers. He was essentially Tyrod on the Bills playoff team. your argument is the exact reasons why, besides the top guys, qb “wins” might be the dumbest stat in sports. According to this logic, the Ravens won because of dilfer and the Chiefs were dumb for drafting Mahomes because Smith “won.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleezoid Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 This is a house of cards for all running backs now. They had little leverage before, now they have no leverage. They'll all sign before the first snap of the regular season. The market is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, Gregg said: He got more money 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 I don't need this stress in my life 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted July 25, 2023 Author Share Posted July 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He got more money I am not sure of this, but I think the Giants can now place the tag on him next year as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Except none of this true. Not a single team worries about Jones. It starts and ends Barkley. It literally was the first non losing season of Jones’ career. He killed then with turnovers. In todays nfl, having 15 td passes as a full time starter is awful. It was bad in the 90s. It is horrible now. The best thing about Jones last year is he didn’t murder them with turnovers. He was essentially Tyrod on the Bills playoff team. your argument is the exact reasons why, besides the top guys, qb “wins” might be the dumbest stat in sports. According to this logic, the Ravens won because of dilfer and the Chiefs were dumb for drafting Mahomes because Smith “won.” They signed Jones to moderate deal that they can get out of pretty quickly. What would you have them do? Tank the season?… because that was the other choice. They decided not to. Therefore they signed Daniel Jones. Having a competent QB, regardless of what you think of him, makes them a playoff contender in the NFC. Saquon Barkley, a RB, does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 28 minutes ago, mrags said: Didn’t read the articles I posted huh. I mean, if he stays healthy and plays in every game it is exactly 2 years 26m reading is hard False. There is not a no tag clause in this new contract. Already reported they can tag him again next year 5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He got more money 1 minute ago, Gregg said: I am not sure of this, but I think the Giants can now place the tag on him next year as well. Follow up question: Even tho they have this "new" deal done, does it still count as a Franchise Tag year? I ask because a second straight tag requires a 120% of the previous tag. So I'm wondering if they tag him again next yeartdoes he get the regular tag number or the double-tagged number? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Follow up question: Even tho they have this "new" deal done, does it still count as a Franchise Tag year? I ask because a second straight tag requires a 120% of the previous tag. So I'm wondering if they tag him again next yeartdoes he get the regular tag number or the double-tagged number? His franchise tag was retained from what Sal C just reported. Meaning next years franchise tag hit would be outrageous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, mrags said: His franchise tag was retained from what Sal C just reported. Meaning next years franchise tag hit would be outrageous. Well, 120% of $10M is easy math to $12M. Not too outrageous given his possible $11M hit this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Well, 120% of $10M is easy math to $12M. Not too outrageous given his possible $11M hit this year. I think that 130% isn’t based off the current deal. It’s 120% of the 3 highest paid at that position. So CMC, Henry, and then Barkley (he’s still currently 3rd highest) averaged out, then add 20%. Or something like that. It’s a high number. It’s not 12m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, mrags said: I think that 130% isn’t based off the current deal. It’s 120% of the 3 highest paid at that position. So CMC, Henry, and then Barkley (he’s still currently 3rd highest) averaged out, then add 20%. Or something like that. It’s a high number. It’s not 12m It's 120% of the player's previous salary. Google has this answer pretty easy. I'll add there is a caveat if the franchise tag number for that position goes up by more than 20% than the player gets that higher number. So it's minimum 20% raise, or a higher than 20% cap number. Not the addition of both. This cap/tag stuff is always interesting. Edited July 25, 2023 by DrDawkinstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany72 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 hours ago, mrags said: And when the giants tag him again? Don’t fool yourself. You know damn well they aren’t. Report just came out they tried to trade him when he turned down the first contract offer they gave him. He won’t be a Giant next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Except none of this true. Not a single team worries about Jones. It starts and ends Barkley. It literally was the first non losing season of Jones’ career. He killed then with turnovers. In todays nfl, having 15 td passes as a full time starter is awful. It was bad in the 90s. It is horrible now. The best thing about Jones last year is he didn’t murder them with turnovers. He was essentially Tyrod on the Bills playoff team. your argument is the exact reasons why, besides the top guys, qb “wins” might be the dumbest stat in sports. According to this logic, the Ravens won because of dilfer and the Chiefs were dumb for drafting Mahomes because Smith “won.” You know it was the first non losing season of Barkley’s career, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said: It's 120% of the player's previous salary. Google has this answer pretty easy. I'll add there is a caveat if the franchise tag number for that position goes up by more than 20% than the player gets that higher number. So it's minimum 20% raise, or a higher than 20% cap number. Not the addition of both. This cap/tag stuff is always interesting. I fat fingered 130%. it wasn’t the 2nd year tag I was thinking about. It’s the 3rd tag. Which would be 144% of the previous year. Which would equate to over 19m. either way, the Giants aren’t going to tag him again next year most likely at 13.2m. Or who knows, maybe they will considering they already offered him 13m a year for the next 2 years and he turned it down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 4 hours ago, mrags said: Wasnt he initially offered 2 years, 26m? He’ll never get 13+ next year. Can’t fix stupid. Remember that time Leveon Bell turned down a 5-year, $70 million deal with the Steelers, sat out a season, then signed a deal with the jets for less years and $20 million less? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Here’s the RB situation in a nutshell. This is the reason. I'd probably blame rookie wage agreements made by the NFLPA. Basically a running back has no ability to negotiate a contract until they're either replaced or damaged goods (4-5 years). If you change anything, maybe you let them re-negotiate contracts earlier than the final year of their deal. Playing time requirements - snap% or something like that - would allow you to maybe negotiate/hold out after 1 or 2 years instead of 3 or 4, or void years off the contract. You can still replace the player, but the new player might then hit the same thresholds and thus become a free agent as well. 2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: It's 120% of the player's previous salary. Google has this answer pretty easy. I'll add there is a caveat if the franchise tag number for that position goes up by more than 20% than the player gets that higher number. So it's minimum 20% raise, or a higher than 20% cap number. Not the addition of both. This cap/tag stuff is always interesting. Did his new 1yr deal negotiate in a no-tag agreement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Process Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 So an extra $900K if he reaches three different incentives and $2M up front? And he can get tagged again next year. The Giants took him to school. Jacob's camp must be pissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 16 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: Did his new 1yr deal negotiate in a no-tag agreement? No, he can be tagged again next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 45 minutes ago, CLTbills said: Remember that time Leveon Bell turned down a 5-year, $70 million deal with the Steelers, sat out a season, then signed a deal with the jets for less years and $20 million less? Yeah. Idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Oh no. Can we start the how are we going to resign James Cook threads... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 I thought the dead line to sign a contract for tagged players was last Monday the 17th? Or did that not apply since Barkley never signed his tag? Or can tagged players only sign one year deals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennstate10 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 There is a fairly straightforward solution to this problem. Have NFLPA and owners recognize that RB is a unique position, and make the first contracts 2 yrs with a team option for a third. That way RBs can hit a second contract 2-3 years sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 4 hours ago, FireChans said: You know it was the first non losing season of Barkley’s career, right? Without looking, I’ll bet you money the giants have a better record in games Barkley started and finished than Jones? You in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Without looking, I’ll bet you money the giants have a better record in games Barkley started and finished than Jones? You in? I personally think Jones is on a path to be a better-than-average QB. He has gotten better over time and had the lowest interception rate in the NFL last season to go along with a 67.2 percent completion rate and 22 total TDs. His QBR of 60.8 was pretty strong too, assuming people put stock in that (his passer rating was 92.5, which was above average -- his rating-plus was 104, with 100 being league average). The Giants' receiving corps was also abjectly terrible last season. Edited July 25, 2023 by dave mcbride 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 That is the definition of betting on yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 8 hours ago, BuffaloBill said: Risky move on his part because he is an injury away from seeing this as a bad deal. His situation really does show the huge devaluation of the position in today’s NFL. It may be but if he sits & doesn't play $11 million is better than $0 million ! One would hope that he will remain healthy and he can help prove what the worth of a really good running back is to a team . I can't imagine the 90's Bills with out Thurman, The Steelers with out the Bus, the Rams with out Marshal Faulk , the Cowboys with out Emmit (I think i just threw up ion my mouth a little bit ) I don't care what the so called experts say but a good running back & game to pay a bit more isn't a terrible thing & I'm thinking the Bills running game this year could be catastrophic to the oppositions defenses if schemed right . Saquon is a once in a very long time great back when he's healthy & should be paid accordingly !! At least as much as the QB he carried last season . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: No, he can be tagged again next year. Oof - I'm shocked on that. What about player options? Like you guarantee yourself a salary if you pick up ur option - or you can opt out? Or you can play your way into a raise that way with some kind of contract escalator - you hit 1200 yards your salary for next season is higher than if you don't, etc. Trying to think about how to help the running backs out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: I thought the dead line to sign a contract for tagged players was last Monday the 17th? Or did that not apply since Barkley never signed his tag? Or can tagged players only sign one year deals? Yes, he could only sign a 1 year deal. Teams are very limited in what they can do with franchise tagged players once the deadline to negotiate a long term deal passes (Jul. 15th or 17th). They can’t even start to negotiate a new deal now until the regular season ends. I think they just added $900k in bonuses to his franchise tag and gave him $2M of it up front. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 14 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: I personally think Jones is on a path to be a better-than-average QB. He has gotten better over time and had the lowest interception rate in the NFL last season to go along with a 67.2 percent completion rate and 22 total TDs. His QBR of 60.8 was pretty strong too, assuming people put stock in that (his passer rating was 92.5, which was above average -- his rating-plus was 104, with 100 being league average). The Giants' receiving corps was also abjectly terrible last season. The insanely short average depth of target is a concern to me. His intended air yards per pass attempt of 6.4 was one of the lowest figures in the league - which likely contributed to a reduced interception rate, and reduced fumbles. The issue there is A - they don't have the horses to make that a truly dangerous offense (even with Barkley) and B - I'm not sure he's capable of stretching the field from the pocket. Between this limitation, their defense, their division, their success the previous season in 1 score games, I see them struggling to get much more than like 7 wins. He's tied for 10th with the AAV of his contract, and he just isn't a top 10 QB. Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Hurts, Herbert, Rodgers, Tua, Lamar, Lawrence are clearly a class above him - then you have Cousins, Geno, Carr, Goff, Dak, Stafford and Kyler where if they aren't better, it's at least a debate. I expect rookies from this class to surpass him before the end of next season as well as guys like Purdy/Lance and potentially Pickett. It's not the worst contract out there (Wilson, Watson, probably Rodgers), but I just think this is who he is. A QB with short throw accuracy, who is a threat to run. For the price they paid he should be more than that, considering Heinicke cost 7M (plus athlete) and Minshew was 3.5M (short throw accuracy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: Yes, he could only sign a 1 year deal. Teams are very limited in what they can do with franchise tagged players once the deadline to negotiate a long term deal passes (Jul. 15th or 17th). They can’t even start to negotiate a new deal now until the regular season ends. I think they just added $900k in bonuses to his franchise tag and gave him $2M of it up front. OK, I didn't think they were allowed to do anything after the 17th other than playing under terms of the tag. Thanks for clarifying! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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