The case for Mike Evans v DHop

[NoSaint]

Are we also letting that level headed thing slide?

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Evans has over 10k yards already.  If he gets over 15k he's a lock.  Three to four years in Buff he gets that yardage and maybe another ring.

 

Maybe you didn't read what I said.  Evans would not get all those touches in Buffalo. He wouldn't be WR1.

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Doesn't M Evans have the same type of resume as DHop - and DHop is considered potential HOF. 

 

Just took a look, Evans stats look like they can be in the ballpark of Isaac Bruce who got in with 15,000+ yards in about 16 seasons.  If you add 3-4 more years in Buffalo Evans will be there.

 And if he comes to Buffalo and helps the Bills get one or more Lombardi's then that would raise his HoF worthy resume.  If he is really tied to the Tampa area and they already have a understanding on a new deal what prevents them from trading Evans for the yr remaining on his current deal this let's Tampa save paying him in a yr they will be bad,  Evans gets a 2nd ring  then he signs a new deal with Tampa next year.  He's beefed up his Hof resume,  and then  gets a  new deal with the team he wishes to stay on after just playing 1 year in Buffalo. 

 

I myself would rather he save any draft capital he has and would prefer he try to secure one of the top wrs in next years draft.  I'd love to get Marv Harrison Jr., think on a 5 yr rookie contract that would really work well with a seasoned Josh Allen as his QB.  And with any of the reliable weapons he has from this year that would be the move I would love to see occurring.  

Edited June 7, 2023 by AuntieEm

[Southern_Bills]

2 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I specifically remember Evans dropping passes from TB12

 

They definitely got in a huge funk last year. My Fantasy team showed it lol.

[Einstein's Dog]

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Maybe you didn't read what I said.  Evans would not get all those touches in Buffalo. He wouldn't be WR1.

 Evans does not need to be WR1 to get 1,000 in Buff.  Gabe Davis had over 800 for us last year.  Evans has had over 1,000 every season he has been in the league.  Since Evans already has a ring, getting close to 15,000 makes him a HOFer, just look at Isaac Bruces resume.

 

Admit it Mr WEO,  M Evans a potential HOFer.

[Aussie Joe]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Beane is willing to trade pics to get who wants I actually don’t have a problem with that

 

But this is also the first year where we will get a comp pic, so I almost feel like he’s working the system a little bit differently

 

He was very careful to bring in players that wouldn’t mess with the comp pic formula

I don’t have a problem with it either… our mate Einstein said that he “cries” at the thought of doing it…

 

Trading picks has no implication on the comp pick..

[Turbo44]

How about taking a flyer on Galloway? Cheap/Prove it deal and he was great in Detroit. 

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

With over 300 combined pages I am experiencing DHop fatigue.  Not only that, my desire for DHop has been reduced some by the skeptics.  DHop's age, PEDs, personality, and now chase of the almight $, make me wonder about the alternatives.   What about Mike Evans?

 

Tampa could be outright terrible this year.  Huge Brady hangover.  Recent power ranking had Tampa 3rd or 4th worst in the league and they just had the viral video of pathetic QB play.  Yet their WR room is quite expensive - M Evans $13M, C Godwin $20M, and R Gage $10M.   M Evans should be able to be had.

 

Pros for Mike Evans:

Age: Evans is younger than DHop (8/21/93 v 6/6/92)

Drugs: Evans has not been busted for steroids (so Evans can be more aggressive in his supplement routine)

Production:  Tie - while DHop has 11,298 yards, Evans 10,425 done in one less year

culture/personality - Evans seems more level headed, no drama

 

Cost - this is where it gets tricky.  DHop looks like he wants greater than OBJ money ($15M), and while IMO DHop has a legitimate point that does not seem like the dollar figure the Bills have in mind.  M Evans is on the last year of what was his big contract and it's a reasonable $13M.  But to get him the Bills would probably need to send over a decent draft pick (maybe a 3rd) and do an extension for 2-3 years with the usual treats of guarateed money/signing bonus, but done in a decent cap friendly type way.

 

While Evans has a ring, he might be chasing the HOF.  And while Evans is classy enough to keep quiet, going to Buffalo would be great for his career.  And Tampa has a problem with extending

You do realize that you may have started another 300 page thread, right?  

[PrimeTime101]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

Beane all but cried over spending a 4th round pick to move up in the draft so i’d be shocked if he spent a pick on Evan’s when Hopkins is available for just money.

Bolded

 

Show me one link where he showed frustration about spending that 4th to move up?

[Punching Bag]

7 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Sorry.. I don’t care if he “cried” or not… he gave up the pick and he has done so many times… he gave up a 5th for Hines and they never use him!

 

Kick returns for TDs are not using him?  You exaggerate greatly.

[Aussie Joe]

10 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Kick returns for TDs are not using him?  You exaggerate greatly.

 Beane seemed to have a broader  role in mind for him

 

https://twitter.com/danfetes/status/1617979599606132737?s=20

Edited June 7, 2023 by Aussie Joe

[Punching Bag]

6 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 Beane seemed to have a broader  role in mind for him

 

https://twitter.com/danfetes/status/1617979599606132737?s=20

 

He had it in mind but he does not coach.  Maybe we will see it this year after OC has some time to plan for him in offseason.

[Aussie Joe]

5 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

He had it in mind but he does not coach.  Maybe we will see it this year after OC has some time to plan for him in offseason.

I’m assuming he talks to the coaches to find out their thoughts on players that might be of interest to acquire mid term?

 

They are all sitting in this building together in Orchard Park for 12 hours a day right?

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Aussie Joe

[machine gun kelly]

Guys, many of you know I live in Tampa for the last 30 years.  The Bucs arent trading away their best player.  Its

 media hype that means nothing.

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

 Evans does not need to be WR1 to get 1,000 in Buff.  Gabe Davis had over 800 for us last year.  Evans has had over 1,000 every season he has been in the league.  Since Evans already has a ring, getting close to 15,000 makes him a HOFer, just look at Isaac Bruces resume.

 

Admit it Mr WEO,  M Evans a potential HOFer.

 

 

Isaac Bruce as part of one of the greatest Offenses ever.  Evans...not.  He would need 110+ targets a season min on the Bills for 5 years, entering his 10th year.  Your calculus has him getting 110 targets at least into his 14th season.  nah.

 

Even i....., in 10+ years, when Evens would be eligible, by your math, 15k probably won't be enough for the HOF anymore.

[GunnerBill]

58 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Isaac Bruce as part of one of the greatest Offenses ever.  Evans...not.  He would need 110+ targets a season min on the Bills for 5 years, entering his 10th year.  Your calculus has him getting 110 targets at least into his 14th season.  nah.

 

Even i....., in 10+ years, when Evens would be eligible, by your math, 15k probably won't be enough for the HOF anymore.

 

Yea. I agree re. Evans. I think he is and always has been excellent but the volume you will need on the basis of pure accumulation is only going to keep increasing and he has been unfortunate to play on a franchise that has been mainly irrelevant, save for the last 3 years, and while Evans has been good for them in the playoffs, averages over 70 yards per game, he doesn't have that signature clutch playoff moment to define his legacy. Think he very likely ends up in the Hall of Very Good. If he were to come to the Bills to chase the HoF it would likely be that signature moment that he would need as much as more yardage accumulation. Being on a SB winning Bills team and having a Gabe Davis v KC type playoff performance in a big win would give him a shot. 

[wppete]

I’d definitely take Evans over Hopkins… Have a feeling Tampa trades him before training camp. 

[nucci]

Shouldn't it be MEva vs DHop?

[Heavy Kevi]

9 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Bolded

 

Show me one link where he showed frustration about spending that 4th to move up?

 

He's not going to stop trading draft picks...

 

But he does express at least some bit of frustration over the extra picks given up. Just listen to him. Right after day 1 of the draft this year he told McAfee something like (I'm paraphrasing) "yeah you know I've done it [given up picks] historically [then he gives a few examples, elam, Edmunds, josh]. Sometimes I hate myself for giving up all the extra picks"

 

He goes on to say he doesn't want to "lose the guy", and for me that's all ok and makes sense.

 

But he's aware he trades picks away at a clip not matched by other GMs

[Einstein's Dog]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea. I agree re. Evans. I think he is and always has been excellent but the volume you will need on the basis of pure accumulation is only going to keep increasing and he has been unfortunate to play on a franchise that has been mainly irrelevant, save for the last 3 years, and while Evans has been good for them in the playoffs, averages over 70 yards per game, he doesn't have that signature clutch playoff moment to define his legacy. Think he very likely ends up in the Hall of Very Good. If he were to come to the Bills to chase the HoF it would likely be that signature moment that he would need as much as more yardage accumulation. Being on a SB winning Bills team and having a Gabe Davis v KC type playoff performance in a big win would give him a shot. 

I disagree, Evans makes it to 15k yards and he is a lock.

 

Evans already has a signature calling card -  over 10 years (every year in the league), over 1,000 yards each year.  Not many, if any, WRs can say that.

 

For HOF purposes, continuing that impressive 1,000 yard streak and hitting 15k total should be the prime considerations.

[major]

Evans or DHop just need to tell McDermott that they play CB occasionally and they’ll be signed immediately. Jedi mind tricks 

[Mr. WEO]

24 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I disagree, Evans makes it to 15k yards and he is a lock.

 

Evans already has a signature calling card -  over 10 years (every year in the league), over 1,000 yards each year.  Not many, if any, WRs can say that.

 

For HOF purposes, continuing that impressive 1,000 yard streak and hitting 15k total should be the prime considerations.

 

 

14-15 straight seasons of 1000+ yards??  lol that's never happened----and it's certainly  not going to happen on the Bills.  Not sure why you think he's going to get all those looks for 5 full years at the tail end of his career.  It's just not gonna happen.  Bills with too many weapons.

[Einstein's Dog]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Isaac Bruce as part of one of the greatest Offenses ever.  Evans...not.  He would need 110+ targets a season min on the Bills for 5 years, entering his 10th year.  Your calculus has him getting 110 targets at least into his 14th season.  nah.

 

Even i....., in 10+ years, when Evens would be eligible, by your math, 15k probably won't be enough for the HOF anymore.

It's yards, not targets, that are the driving stat.  

 

While in 10-15 years 15k yardage alone may not be enough.  The short elevator pitch of over 15k yards, and over 10 (at least) straight 1,000 yard seasons, and a ring (at least one), will do it.  It's not like they will have too many of those where they have to weed them out - DHop won't have that, Diggs will be fighting for it.

 

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Einstein's Dog said:

It's yards, not targets, that are the driving stat.  

 

While in 10-15 years 15k yardage alone may not be enough.  The short elevator pitch of over 15k yards, and over 10 (at least) straight 1,000 yard seasons, and a ring (at least one), will do it.  It's not like they will have too many of those where they have to weed them out - DHop won't have that, Diggs will be fighting for it.

 

 

 

It would take at least that many targets for him to crack 1000......

[Einstein's Dog]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

14-15 straight seasons of 1000+ yards??  lol that's never happened----and it's certainly  not going to happen on the Bills.  Not sure why you think he's going to get all those looks for 5 full years at the tail end of his career.  It's just not gonna happen.  Bills with too many weapons.

Now you're starting to see just how special the career Evans has been putting together.  HOF worthy start.

 

So you think the Bills have too many weapons.  Remember when Tampa had Godwin/Evans/Gage/and Gronk (with Brate backup).  Evans still got his 1k.  The Bills would have Diggs/Evans/Davis/and Knox (with Kincaid backup).  Evans would get his 1k.

 

 

[Rc2catch]

Evans is worth more to Tampa than the compensation they’d get for him currently. I don’t see any reason they’d deal him now. That division is still pretty bad and if Trask or even Baker can just be a plus game manager they can still compete. Now if they come out and go 2-5 or something to start it might make sense to shop some veterans. 

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Now you're starting to see just how special the career Evans has been putting together.  HOF worthy start.

 

So you think the Bills have too many weapons.  Remember when Tampa had Godwin/Evans/Gage/and Gronk (with Brate backup).  Evans still got his 1k.  The Bills would have Diggs/Evans/Davis/and Knox (with Kincaid backup).  Evans would get his 1k.

 

 

 

 

Not a HOF end.  It's never been done.  Far better WRs (in the HOF) never did it.  

[Einstein's Dog]

16 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Evans is worth more to Tampa than the compensation they’d get for him currently. I don’t see any reason they’d deal him now. That division is still pretty bad and if Trask or even Baker can just be a plus game manager they can still compete. Now if they come out and go 2-5 or something to start it might make sense to shop some veterans. 

A reason Tampa might move Evans now is because the deal presented to them by the Bills might have a limited time frame on it.  The Bills might want Evans in from the beginning of the season.  Or the Bills are floating out an offer before they up their offer to DHop.

 

Tampa might want to move him now because Evans is not in their long term plans.  Tampa already has too much invested in the WR group and will not be able to offer an aging veteran the market rate he deserves.  Generally, the longer you wait, the less you get.

 

The realization that Tampa is going to stink may have been confirmed to them through the OTA performance

33 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Not a HOF end.  It's never been done.  Far better WRs (in the HOF) never did it.  

But now you are able to see that Evans is a potential HOFer right?  Stats are right up there, if not slightly better than, those of DHop and Diggs.

[Einstein]

12 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Bolded

 

Show me one link where he showed frustration about spending that 4th to move up?

 

He mentioned it in multiple press conferences.

 

Onvioisly he came to the conclusion that it was worth it to trade the pick, but he said several times that he didn't want to have to do it.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

A reason Tampa might move Evans now is because the deal presented to them by the Bills might have a limited time frame on it.  The Bills might want Evans in from the beginning of the season.  Or the Bills are floating out an offer before they up their offer to DHop.

 

Tampa might want to move him now because Evans is not in their long term plans.  Tampa already has too much invested in the WR group and will not be able to offer an aging veteran the market rate he deserves.  Generally, the longer you wait, the less you get.

 

The realization that Tampa is going to stink may have been confirmed to them through the OTA performance

But now you are able to see that Evans is a potential HOFer right?  Stats are right up there, if not slightly better than, those of DHop and Diggs.

 

Well then every current top 10 WR is a "potential HOFer".  so what?  I disagree that Mike Evans, of all WR in the history of the NFL, is the only one who will have ever put together 14-15 1000+ seasons.

 

Your claim begs the question: if he's headed to the Hall with those numbers....and he's amassed them all in Tampa---why wouldn't he just stay there and keep racking up 1000+ seasons?  He's much more likely to achieve that record in Tampa than in Buffalo.

[Buftex]

Though I would still love a Hopkins trade, Evans is the guy I have always wanted for the Bills.  

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

He mentioned it in multiple press conferences.

 

Onvioisly he came to the conclusion that it was worth it to trade the pick, but he said several times that he didn't want to have to do it.

and most pressers are recorded and yet... You can not find one link. Yea.... enough said. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

He mentioned it in multiple press conferences.

 

Onvioisly he came to the conclusion that it was worth it to trade the pick, but he said several times that he didn't want to have to do it.

I think it’s fair to say that he didn’t want to trade the pick, but the player was just too good to pass up

[Einstein's Dog]

32 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Well then every current top 10 WR is a "potential HOFer".  so what?  I disagree that Mike Evans, of all WR in the history of the NFL, is the only one who will have ever put together 14-15 1000+ seasons.

 

Your claim begs the question: if he's headed to the Hall with those numbers....and he's amassed them all in Tampa---why wouldn't he just stay there and keep racking up 1000+ seasons?  He's much more likely to achieve that record in Tampa than in Buffalo.

Now you're begrudgingly starting to see the light, remember you started with "lol....the 20-teens HOF??"  At the 10 year mark, Evans credentials are above both DHop and Diggs, Evans is on track for the HOF.

 

Mike Evans has gone over 1,000 yards each of the 10 seasons he has been in the league, that is rare company already.  If he makes it to 15 in a row he probably will be the only one (Jerry Rice didn't, I Bruce didn't, I didn't check them all).

 

The reason I said he was a potential HOFer was twofold.  First, to indicate that M Evans is good.  Evans would upgrade our roster in a significant way.  Secondly as a potential HOFer the Bills situation could be appealing to him to obtain the statistics he needs to secure the bid.

 

Evans is not more likely to get 1000 yard seasons in Tampa than Buffalo.  Tampa is a dumpster fire, their OL is terrible, there is competition in the WR room, and worst of all, their QB in none other than "WR killer" Mayfield (just ask OBJ).  In Buffalo as WR2, Evans would easily surpass the 1,000 yard mark (it's 17 games now).

 

 

[Jauronimo]

19 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Good for you.  I hope he feels the same towards you.

 

 

 

Sorry but that was perfect phrasing on your part.😁

 

Boyst got no love for the closeted guys.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Now you're begrudgingly starting to see the light, remember you started with "lol....the 20-teens HOF??"  At the 10 year mark, Evans credentials are above both DHop and Diggs, Evans is on track for the HOF.

 

Mike Evans has gone over 1,000 yards each of the 10 seasons he has been in the league, that is rare company already.  If he makes it to 15 in a row he probably will be the only one (Jerry Rice didn't, I Bruce didn't, I didn't check them all).

 

The reason I said he was a potential HOFer was twofold.  First, to indicate that M Evans is good.  Evans would upgrade our roster in a significant way.  Secondly as a potential HOFer the Bills situation could be appealing to him to obtain the statistics he needs to secure the bid.

 

Evans is not more likely to get 1000 yard seasons in Tampa than Buffalo.  Tampa is a dumpster fire, their OL is terrible, there is competition in the WR room, and worst of all, their QB in none other than "WR killer" Mayfield (just ask OBJ).  In Buffalo as WR2, Evans would easily surpass the 1,000 yard mark (it's 17 games now).

 

 

 

 

I've said this at least twice already.  None of the best have ever done this. Why?  Because after 10 years, most of them see their productivity fall off.  Why would Evans be different? He's not better than Larry Fitzgerald, Terrell Owens,  Tim Brown....and he's nowhere near the WR that Moss was.  

 

Yes, Diggs in "on track for the HOF".  So is DHop. So is Tyreek Hill.  So is Julio Jones. So is Michael Thomas no?  And Justin Jefferson is already a HOFer, pretty much, am I right?!

 

Anyway..Mayfield didn't kill OBJs career...

 

No one here has said Evans isn't "good".  That's not a point worth making.

 

So now "competition in the WR room" is a reason he won't get 1000 in Tampa?  You just said that wasn't true 3 posts ago. 

 

Evans got big numbers with bums at QB his whole career there, but for 3 with Brady----and those were 3 of Evans's 4 lowest yardage years (he hasn't played 17 games the last 2 seasons, by the way).  Why can't he now?

[Einstein]

4 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

and most pressers are recorded and yet... You can not find one link. Yea.... enough said. 

 

Im just no interested in doing your googling work for you. Don’t be lazy. Here is a one time accommodation:

 

 

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I think it’s fair to say that he didn’t want to trade the pick, but the player was just too good to pass up

 

Yep.

[Einstein's Dog]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

So now "competition in the WR room" is a reason he won't get 1000 in Tampa?  You just said that wasn't true 3 posts ago. 

 

Evans got big numbers with bums at QB his whole career there, but for 3 with Brady----and those were 3 of Evans's 4 lowest yardage years (he hasn't played 17 games the last 2 seasons, by the way).  Why can't he now?

The point is, given a choice, Evans would probably want to play the next 2-3 years in Buffalo over Tampa.  And if Tampa had a rebuilding mind-set they would probably want to get something for Evans now if they could - because he probably is not in their long term plans.

 

A couple of problems though.  Tampa's division stinks so the Bucs might want to have their fans think they have a shot at the division title.  Moving Evans, a fan favorite, prior to the season would give off a tank like vibe.

[billsfan89]

If the Bills can get Evans for a third and a conditional late round pick in 2025 I am all for it. Evans is coming off a productive season and still has a good deal left in the tank. The Bucs are rebuilding so getting a third now and an additional late round pick is better than waiting on a possible conditional pick that may never come.

 

The only issue is fitting Evans under the cap and would Tampa want more than just a 3rd and a conditional 6th?

[billsfan89]

9 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

The point is, given a choice, Evans would probably want to play the next 2-3 years in Buffalo over Tampa.  And if Tampa had a rebuilding mind-set they would probably want to get something for Evans now if they could - because he probably is not in their long term plans.

 

A couple of problems though.  Tampa's division stinks so the Bucs might want to have their fans think they have a shot at the division title.  Moving Evans, a fan favorite, prior to the season would give off a tank like vibe.

The Bucs would be smart to trade Evans. Without Brady they are giving off a tank vibe and they might as well get something decent for Evans. Ideally I would want a 2nd plus a future late round pick. 
 

Tampa had a two year window to win a title and they got one with Brady. Now they are better off selling the value that remains from that team and eating the dead cap now and handing the team over to a new coach with a boat load of cap space and some extra draft picks to work with