Hopkins released by Arizona (7/16: signed by Titans)

[RoyBatty is alive]

On 5/26/2023 at 2:19 PM, Einstein said:

 

The Jets have been run incredibly well the last two years.

 

I don't love the Rodgers move, but I think that was an ownership decision. Their other moves have been fantastic.

Zach Wilson disaster, Aaron Rodgers overdpaid and over the hill, yes the MAY have had a good draft

[JerseyBills]

48 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

It does make sense though. Reportedly we offered the same type of deal to Yannick Ngakoue. I think it represents the most he's willing to do for anyone right now.

 

This is what I've been saying and fear when it comes to Hopkins. At this point, Beane isn't spending money. He wasn't spending much all offseason to begin with. He finessed the cap as much as I think he felt comfortable doing and adequately filled the many holes he had.

 

He appears to be doing diligence on a Tre restructure. Hopefully he can get that done and free up enough to get Hopkins attention. Hopefully the incentive laden deal isn't his final offer. When it comes to a Dawkins restructure, I feel he may be hesitant to do that as he may want to get out from under that if he has another bad year. And he's not going to rush his schedule and thinking on extending DT's to get another deal done.

Thank God Yanick or JJ never happened.  Bills lucked out with a few players that underperformed 

[Warriorspikes51]

52 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

It does make sense though. Reportedly we offered the same type of deal to Yannick Ngakoue. I think it represents the most he's willing to do for anyone right now.

 

This is what I've been saying and fear when it comes to Hopkins. At this point, Beane isn't spending money. He wasn't spending much all offseason to begin with. He finessed the cap as much as I think he felt comfortable doing and adequately filled the many holes he had.

 

He appears to be doing diligence on a Tre restructure. Hopefully he can get that done and free up enough to get Hopkins attention. Hopefully the incentive laden deal isn't his final offer. When it comes to a Dawkins restructure, I feel he may be hesitant to do that as he may want to get out from under that if he has another bad year. And he's not going to rush his schedule and thinking on extending DT's to get another deal done.

offer a similar deal to what OBJ got. Though ideally it would be 2-3 years.  Oliver walks, whatever. Gabe Davis remains a big ? 

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, Pabstblueribbon said:

Thank you, sir. The beer one is better fitting for a long weekend anyway lol. 

 

Analogies aside though, in 2020 Diggs and Hopkins were each traded.

 

In 2019 Diggs had 63 receptions for 1,130 yards and six touchdowns. Hopkins had 104 catches for 1,165 yards and seven touchdowns. It was basically a coin flip as to who was viewed as the "better" receiver, where people who valued physical measurables liked D-Hop and Team: Separation liked Diggs. Diggs hooks up with Allen and go berserk while Hopkins continued riding the qb carousel.

 

What if the secret to actually sniffing the ceiling of Josh Allen as a professional quarterback is as simple as doing whatever it takes to bring him another Stefon Diggs?

 

If you could make a copy of Diggs and sign him to our roster right now for the next 2-3 seasons, what would you be willing to give up? Imo that's the question we're talking about right now. 

 

If we haven't sniffed Allen's potential yet then holy smokes , dude has already broken multiple qb records , mvp runner up twice. 

 

If Hopkins could up his game that much, which I don't see it, but then ya I'd go all in. I guess Beane feels that way if they had trade talks

[Warriorspikes51]

6 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

If we haven't sniffed Allen's potential yet then holy smokes , dude has already broken multiple qb records , mvp runner up twice. 

 

If Hopkins could up his game that much, which I don't see it, but then ya I'd go all in. I guess Beane feels that way if they had trade talks

against playoff teams, Diggs has been essentially taken out of the game for long stretches. The other players haven’t done enough to solve that (except for Davis game at KC) Another elite weapon is the solution

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[Prospector]

I say kick those tires!!! just kidding, but get it done beane

[BillsFanForever19]

6 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

offer a similar deal to what OBJ got. Though ideally it would be 2-3 years.  Oliver walks, whatever. Gabe Davis remains a big ? 

 

And therein lies the problem to me. I know you'd do that. I probably would as well. But will Beane do that?

 

He wasn't willing to do that for OBJ. And yes, OBJ has injury issues. But Hopkins also has age concerns amongst other concerns. Does he feel Hopkins is truly that much more of a talent that he'd do it for him? Compounding issues is he wasn't willing to do that when he had more money available to him and hadn't already addressed the Pass Catching room as he has now.

 

I feel as though if he were comfortable doing that and Hopkins was agreeable to that kind of deal, he would have traded for him. That type of deal could have been done on a restructure of his AZ contract. And Beane wasn't comfortable with it.

 

As I've said before, I'd like to see this get done. And while there are ways of doing it, those ways include things that I don't see Beane being comfortable with. I hope I'm wrong. But just because it CAN be done doesn't mean it WILL be done. What we're comfortable with are things I don't see Beane being comfortable with.

 

But we will see.

[Warriorspikes51]

9 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

And therein lies the problem to me. I know you'd do that. I probably would as well. But will Beane do that?

 

He wasn't willing to do that for OBJ. And yes, OBJ has injury issues. But Hopkins also has age concerns amongst other concerns. Does he feel Hopkins is truly that much more of a talent that he'd do it for him? Compounding issues is he wasn't willing to do that when he had more money available to him and hadn't already addressed the Pass Catching room as he has now.

 

I feel as though if he were comfortable doing that and Hopkins was agreeable to that kind of deal, he would have traded for him. That type of deal could have been done on a restructure of his AZ contract. And Beane wasn't comfortable with it.

 

As I've said before, I'd like to see this get done. And while there are ways of doing it, those ways include things that I don't see Beane being comfortable with. I hope I'm wrong. But just because it CAN be done doesn't mean it WILL be done. What we're comfortable with are things I don't see Beane being comfortable with.

 

But we will see.

maybe. But, Hopkins is a superior player and hasn’t torn his acl twice. 
 

Beane also may look at Dhop only having 4 drops on his last 474 targets and understand that attribute is something our offense really needs….after leading the league in drops and drive killing plays

Edited May 27, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, TheWeatherMan said:

6 due to suspension, 1.5 due to injury and 2 due to coaches decision to tank.  Me personally there is no red flag especially for a 1 or 2 year contract 

that it’ll potentially be his first year off enhancers would be the biggest concern on the list. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, NoSaint said:

that it’ll potentially be his first year off enhancers would be the biggest concern on the list. 

he had 64 receptions in only 8 games last season….

 

with less than ideal QB play to say the least

Edited May 27, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

maybe. But, Hopkins is a superior player and hasn’t torn his acl twice. 
 

Beane also may look at Dhop only having 4 drops on his last 474 targets and understand that attribute is something our offense really needs….after leading the league in drops and drive killing plays

agreed hop is a better player 

[Warriorspikes51]

Another thing to consider here….if Josh Allen lets it be known to Beane he’d really like Hopkins….that certainly could increase our willingness to offer more $

[MasterStrategist]

2 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

he had 64 receptions in only 8 games last season….

 

with less than ideal QB play to say the least

Unless Dhop takes a significant pay reduction or heavy incentive-laden deal, there's no way Beane pulls the trigger now. 

 

He would have done it already, instead invested in at least Kincaid and possibly others since his potential trade talks stalled.

 

Last 3 seasons : Josh averaged 575 pass attempts

1. Diggs avg 150-160 targets 

 

Let's say Dhop takes another 150, thats less than 300 targets to go around for : Davis, Knox, Kincaid, Shakir, Harty, and our RBs (which is supposedly a reason we liked Cook and traded for Hines).  

 

That's a significant wasted investment at this point, again, if we have to pay Dhop anywhere near OBJs deal.  To me, Beane is smart enough to know Dhop was likely getting released.  

 

I'd love to have Dhop too.  But it is highly unlikely for us now, unless Dhop surprises and takes less money

[Warriorspikes51]

3 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Unless Dhop takes a significant pay reduction or heavy incentive-laden deal, there's no way Beane pulls the trigger now. 

 

He would have done it already, instead invested in at least Kincaid and possibly others since his potential trade talks stalled.

 

Last 3 seasons : Josh averaged 575 pass attempts

1. Diggs avg 150-160 targets 

 

Let's say Dhop takes another 150, thats less than 300 targets to go around for : Davis, Knox, Kincaid, Shakir, Harty, and our RBs (which is supposedly a reason we liked Cook and traded for Hines).  

 

That's a significant wasted investment at this point, again, if we have to pay Dhop anywhere near OBJs deal.  To me, Beane is smart enough to know Dhop was likely getting released.  

 

I'd love to have Dhop too.  But it is highly unlikely for us now, unless Dhop surprises and takes less money

it’s likely AZ was unwilling to pay any of the $ at the time and therefore the acquiring team would have needed the cap space to take on his deal before a restructure

 

how is adding a top 10 WR to your offense a wasted investment? It makes everyone else better and your offense is harder to stop.  
 

I love the Kincaid pick, and he may be great. But, why rely on a rookie TE to be your #2/3 option when you can add this player.
 

It also helps Kincaid….as he is going to be an afterthought by defenses and will be open most of the time

Edited May 27, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[MasterStrategist]

7 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

it’s likely AZ was unwilling to pay any of the $ at the time and therefore the acquiring team would have needed the cap space to take on his deal before a restructure

Agree about AZ.  But at the same time, let's not act like that all of a sudden Dhop being released opens the Beane/Pegula piggy bank.  

 

Cap concerns still exist, if you like or not, Beane doesn't want to leverage too much future cap.  We also don't know what Dhop is asking for, but can imagine it's OBJ $ territory.  

 

It's a luxury to have 2 all-pro WRs, agree?  Please explain if you think this is a necessity, because Beane could spend this $$$ next year or the year after or the year after....to improve other positions, specifically OT/DT.

 

This is like taking my 5 yr old into the store, and he wants the new/shiny toy.  There's always going to be that new/shiny toy though, and this is just my opinion, but Dhop doesn't put us over the top.  This is a move I make when we lack a true Wr1, which is exactly what other recent teams did (that HappyDays and others cited)...such as OBJ to Rams, Aj Brown to Philly, etc.  Those teams lacked #1/demand defensive attention type Wrs....we dont.

Edited May 27, 2023 by MasterStrategist

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Agree about AZ.  But at the same time, let's not act like that all of a sudden Dhop being released opens the Beane/Pegula piggy bank.  

 

Cap concerns still exist, if you like or not, Beane doesn't want to leverage too much future cap.  We also don't know what Dhop is asking for, but can imagine it's OBJ $ territory.  

 

It's a luxury to have 2 all-pro WRs, agree?  Please explain if you think this is a necessity, because Beane could spend this $$$ next year or the year after or the year after....to improve other positions, specifically OT/DT.

If the Bills don't crash the SB party in the next couple of years, Beane may be saving cap for a different GM. Imo, you see a chance to improve your chances at the first ring, you go get it. That buys you patience down the line if you need to retool. Too much caution is not the right play if you've got a franchise qb top 3 at the position and have fizzled in the playoffs.

[Billznut]

It’s also late May. Hopkins doesn’t have to make ANY decision for two months if he wants to be with a team at the start of training camp. He will wait and be patient and see if some team forks over acceptable $$. If no one has by mid to late July, then he will most likely take a 1 year incentive laden deal with whichever team he most wants to play for. Don’t expect to see any signing of Hopkins for quite awhile. 

[SCBills]

 

[MasterStrategist]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

If the Bills don't crash the SB party in the next couple of years, Beane may be saving cap for a different GM. Imo, you see a chance to improve your chances at the first ring, you go get it. That buys you patience down the line if you need to retool. Too much caution is not the right play if you've got a franchise qb top 3 at the position and have fizzled in the playoffs.

Depends if you think Dhop puts us in SB contention/how much does it move the needle?

 

Yes our offense is likely better, but by how much?  We've been a top scoring/top end offense and the defense failed us against KC 2x, then against Cincy that was a complete team failure.

 

Beane might not need to buy patience, Pegula might not agree with you.  And everyone has a different risk level, depends what you define as too much caution....again, likely not Beanes view.

[Solomon Grundy]

8 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Agree about AZ.  But at the same time, let's not act like that all of a sudden Dhop being released opens the Beane/Pegula piggy bank.  

 

Cap concerns still exist, if you like or not, Beane doesn't want to leverage too much future cap.  We also don't know what Dhop is asking for, but can imagine it's OBJ $ territory.  

 

It's a luxury to have 2 all-pro WRs, agree?  Please explain if you think this is a necessity, because Beane could spend this $$$ next year or the year after or the year after....to improve other positions, specifically OT/DT.

Is your goal to win a SB? If, so... when? These next two years, IMO, are the best chances to achieve this goal. Strike while the iron is hot!! Diggs, Hopkins, Davis, Allen would be our version on Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Burrow. Bengals have been the only team to beat KC in playoffs. Kincaid, Knox, Harty, Sherfield would be considered bonuses to the equation. Let's make this happen Beane!! Let's get over this mountain sooner than later. 

[MasterStrategist]

6 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Is your goal to win a SB? If, so... when? These next two years, IMO, are the best chances to achieve this goal. Strike while the iron is hot!! Diggs, Hopkins, Davis, Allen would be our version on Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Burrow. Bengals have been the only team to beat KC in playoffs. Kincaid, Knox, Harty, Sherfield would be considered bonuses to the equation. Let's make this happen Beane!! Let's get over this mountain sooner than later. 

This team as is, can compete and win the SB.  Just like LY and the year before.  Nobody was complaining after the KC loss, except about 13 seconds and lack of DL pressure (maybe toss RT into that too).

 

All of a sudden, after the team (entire group) played poorly against Cincy, we need another all pro WR?  Makes no sense.

[BillsSbSoon]

If he goes to Philly that would be insane

[Solomon Grundy]

Just now, MasterStrategist said:

This team as is, can compete and win the SB.  Just like LY and the year before.  Nobody was complaining after the KC loss, except about 13 seconds and lack of DL pressure (maybe toss RT into that too).

 

All of a sudden, after the team (entire group) played poorly against Cincy, we need another all pro WR?  Makes no sense.

No sense?? The Bills were tops in the league with dropped passes. Hopkins would not only solve that problem, but take attention from Diggs. Smoke and Beasley were actually brought in to help and that failed. Get a bonafide threat in here to help Josh and the offense. Like I said, Harty and Sherfield are bonuses

4 minutes ago, BillsSbSoon said:

If he goes to Philly that would be insane

Can't let that happen, IMO

[NoSaint]

56 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

he had 64 receptions in only 8 games last season….

 

with less than ideal QB play to say the least

And probably not near enough space to fully lose whatever gains he may have had and only half a season to make it through.
 

[Magox]

2 hours ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

I think a 2-3 year deal is ideal...I prefer 2. And I'd give him as much as I could without being stupid. 

 

Most likely a 3 year deal with 2 years of it guaranteed.   

[MasterStrategist]

4 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

No sense?? The Bills were tops in the league with dropped passes. Hopkins would not only solve that problem, but take attention from Diggs. Smoke and Beasley were actually brought in to help and that failed. Get a bonafide threat in here to help Josh and the offense. Like I said, Harty and Sherfield are bonuses

Can't let that happen, IMO

The dropped passes stat, can you please share the specifics/source?  It's been said alot, assuming someone actually provided our stats from LY by player. 

 

Smoke got meaningless snaps.  Beas was brought back because our top slot option broke an ankle, Isiah was inconsistent/struggled against zone, and our 5th round rookie was learning the ropes.

 

Beane has since talked up Shakir, brought in Harty, and used a 1st on Kincaid.  That's an upgrade, and this isn't enough for you?

[BillsShredder83]

7 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Hopkins doesn’t draw a lot of coverage while he is hurt, pouting or suspended for roids…..which is a lot…..but his contract burns cap anyway.

hes been incredibly healthy, you outted yourself as a casual

 

pouting? he's never pouted unless you consider wanting off a team thats in a full rebuild in his prime, pouting........ casual

 

"roids"..... it was a peptide to help recover from injury, same class of stuff 99% of the league turns to when injured (would bet Josh used stuff for his elbow)... or you can live in a shell and think these guys muscles and tendons that tear have some magic ability to heal that nobody else does lollll (they dont)

[Solomon Grundy]

2 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

The dropped passes stat, can you please share the specifics/source?  It's been said alot, assuming someone actually provided our stats from LY by player. 

 

Smoke got meaningless snaps.  Beas was brought back because our top slot option broke an ankle, Isiah was inconsistent/struggled against zone, and our 5th round rookie was learning the ropes.

 

Beane has since talked up Shakir, brought in Harty, and used a 1st on Kincaid.  That's an upgrade, and this isn't enough for you?

Beane talked up Cody Ford too!! I'd rather have a proven commodity to get me over the hump. If your car needed repair, would you take it to a reputable mechanic or let a jack leg work on it? 

[Sharky7337]

4 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

The dropped passes stat, can you please share the specifics/source?  It's been said alot, assuming someone actually provided our stats from LY by player. 

 

Smoke got meaningless snaps.  Beas was brought back because our top slot option broke an ankle, Isiah was inconsistent/struggled against zone, and our 5th round rookie was learning the ropes.

 

Beane has since talked up Shakir, brought in Harty, and used a 1st on Kincaid.  That's an upgrade, and this isn't enough for you?

 

This is a weak argument. Just because you got better, if your not the best, you need to keep trying to improve any way possible. 

 

We don't have the best receiving core. We still need to get better if we can. End of story.

[MasterStrategist]

Just now, Sharky7337 said:

 

This is a weak argument. Just because you got better, if your not the best, you need to keep trying to improve any way possible. 

 

We don't have the best receiving core. We still need to get better if we can. End of story.

At what cost?  Or does that not matter

2 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Beane talked up Cody Ford too!! I'd rather have a proven commodity to get me over the hump. If your car needed repair, would you take it to a reputable mechanic or let a jack leg work on it? 

If you're ready to bucket Shakir with Ford, that's a you problem. 

 

I'll take it to the reputable mechanic, ***that's not overpriced. That's what this boils down to me, is cost for Dhop...

[Sharky7337]

2 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

At what cost?  Or does that not matter

Name a a player that would have more impact. None of the DEs out there would have as much impact on our team as much as Hopkins would be added to the O.

 

I'd totally let Davis walk to keep hopkins.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Sharky7337

[Solomon Grundy]

3 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

At what cost?  Or does that not matter

If you're ready to bucket Shakir with Ford, that's a you problem. 

 

I'll take it to the reputable mechanic, ***that's not overpriced. That's what this boils down to me, is cost for Dhop...

Regardless!! It's gonna cost you to get the job done right 🙂

[Dr. Who]

29 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Depends if you think Dhop puts us in SB contention/how much does it move the needle?

 

Yes our offense is likely better, but by how much?  We've been a top scoring/top end offense and the defense failed us against KC 2x, then against Cincy that was a complete team failure.

 

Beane might not need to buy patience, Pegula might not agree with you.  And everyone has a different risk level, depends what you define as too much caution....again, likely not Beanes view.

I understand your stance and I would guess Beane is likely to hold a perspective closer to your own. I think in a couple of years, Kincaid might very well be a force. By that time, Diggs will be near the end of his prime WR1 threat years. Hopkins adds that pressure now. The two together should make everyone else's job easier because the defense is spread thin. As I've said elsewhere, you need a good defense. It's not prudent in today's game to try and build a dominant defense like the '85 Bears. You win by outscoring opponents. Scare them with playmakers all over the field and a bold, franchise qb. Pegula may be complacent, or he may not. Another season that ends in a whimper playoff time might alter levels of content. I assure you Diggs and Allen are not going to be happy with another early failure. 

[Chandler#81]

12 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

The dropped passes stat, can you please share the specifics/source?  It's been said alot, assuming someone actually provided our stats from LY by player. 

 

Smoke got meaningless snaps.  Beas was brought back because our top slot option broke an ankle, Isiah was inconsistent/struggled against zone, and our 5th round rookie was learning the ropes.

 

Beane has since talked up Shakir, brought in Harty, and used a 1st on Kincaid.  That's an upgrade, and this isn't enough for you?

You’ve stated this a dozen times. Is it important that you do this?

[MasterStrategist]

Just now, Dr. Who said:

I understand your stance and I would guess Beane is likely to hold a perspective closer to your own. I think in a couple of years, Kincaid might very well be a force. By that time, Diggs will be near the end of his prime WR1 threat years. Hopkins adds that pressure now. The two together should make everyone else's job easier because the defense is spread thin. As I've said elsewhere, you need a good defense. It's not prudent in today's game to try and build a dominant defense like the '85 Bears. You win by outscoring opponents. Scare them with playmakers all over the field and a bold, franchise qb. Pegula may be complacent, or he may not. Another season that ends in a whimper playoff time might alter levels of content. I assure you Diggs and Allen are not going to be happy with another early failure. 

Very fair and well said!  Can't argue the merits of this, we will see how this shakes out.  

 

Either way, I'm feeling good about our current group...Dhop would be a nice bonus, but not necessity to me

1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said:

You’ve stated this a dozen times. Is it important that you do this?

I guess it's just as important as others posting a dozen times on their thoughts, or posting eye roll emojis,, or someone who spends time as a moderator.

 

People quote you and you respond, it's a message board...figured that comes with the territory. 

 

 

[nucci]

12 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

At what cost?  Or does that not matter

 

it does not. This team is built to contend for SB now and maybe next 2 years. Future not important at this point

[DCofNC]

19 hours ago, Capco said:

I'm not 100% sure myself, but I think he's at least in the ballpark.  As I understand it, the concept of dead money is simply that every dollar paid to a player has to be allocated against the salary cap eventually, one way or another, even if that player is no longer on the roster.  

For example, a deal can be structured so that a player gets paid $10 million in real, actual dollars in Year 1, but his Year 1 cap hit is only $5 million.  If that player gets cut after Year 1, the team will have $5 million in dead money.  That is because the player was already paid $10 million, but only $5 million has been counted against the cap so far.  The other $5 million has to be accounted for, and so the team will carry a $5 million dead cap hit in Year 2.  The player doesn't actually have to receive any real, actual dollars from the team in Year 2 for there to be dead money counted against Year 2's salary cap.  

Bonuses (prorated signing) and guaranteed money all accelerate to the current cap year.  If they do a post June 1 designation or cut ties after June 1, they can split it across the current year and next year.   

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Zach Wilson disaster, Aaron Rodgers overdpaid and over the hill, yes the MAY have had a good draft

 

They had one of the best drafts in recent memory (for ANY team) last season. Their first pick is already an All-Pro. Their second pick was great even with Zach Wilson and I believe will be an All-Pro by next year. Their 3rd pick was better at DE in his first season that Rousseou was in his second season, and had a top PFF ranking.  Their 4th pick was a top 10 player at his position before he got hurt last season. 

They just NAILED that draft.

[DJB]

Beane has been in on OBJ, he’s had interest in other WR’s as well

 

Its clear he’s trying to upgrade the WR2 spot so I’m guessing the interest in Nuke is genuine 

 

Hopefully he can pull it off!

[DCofNC]

29 minutes ago, nucci said:

it does not. This team is built to contend for SB now and maybe next 2 years. Future not important at this point

Exactly, regardless of what anybody says, when you have a team that’s been right on the cusp for two years, you add the difference makers to get it done.  All the teams that try to keep their window open by minding the cap get to watch their window shut with nothing to show for it.