Bill from NYC Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: What really good guard is available for $4M next year? He is probably asking 20 million per season. I am missing your point. Edited February 17, 2023 by Bill from NYC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, Beck Water said: I would go with $14/15 AAV Yeah, Ive been referencing Smith's deal for a while now. Check out the structure... https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/roquan-smith-25103/ Really nice setup for 3-4 years. I think we could swing that. If the question is paying Edmunds a full $20M this year, then heck no. But if his overall average is $20M with a wink wink, and he actually makes $9M and $13M... now we're talking. 1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said: He is probably asking 20 million per season. I am missing your point. See the previous few posts. He isnt going to be a $20M cap hit next year or likely until 2026. More like $9M next year. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/roquan-smith-25103/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 I do believe Mr Milano also sounded like a goner, right up until he wasn’t. 49 is a good player, hope he comes back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davspo Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Would love to have him back, but you cannot pay them all. If we learned anything it's that more resources (draft picks and free agents) need to be allocated to offense, particularly the O-line and receivers. If someone is willing to pay a non-pass rushing linebacker more that 14 mil a year, let them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Defense Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: Or course and would be stupid not to. He's going to make generational wealth by testing FA. But either way, he is going to make generational wealth, of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: Yeah, Ive been referencing Smith's deal for a while now. Check out the structure... https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/roquan-smith-25103/ Really nice setup for 3-4 years. I think we could swing that. If the question is paying Edmunds a full $20M this year, then heck no. But if his overall average is $20M with a wink wink, and he actually makes $9M and $13M... now we're talking. See the previous few posts. He isnt going to be a $20M cap hit next year or likely until 2026. More like $9M next year. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/roquan-smith-25103/ So why would a guard's cap hit be on $4M next year? Only doing cap wizardry for some players? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Yeah, Ive been referencing Smith's deal for a while now. Check out the structure... https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/roquan-smith-25103/ Really nice setup for 3-4 years. I think we could swing that. If the question is paying Edmunds a full $20M this year, then heck no. But if his overall average is $20M with a wink wink, and he actually makes $9M and $13M... now we're talking. See the previous few posts. He isnt going to be a $20M cap hit next year or likely until 2026. More like $9M next year. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/roquan-smith-25103/ OK, sure. I am guessing that cap hits can be spread out with guards as well, no? Either way, we need blocking more than we need Edmunds imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, SCBills said: Will GLADLY trade that for an Offense that doesn’t require Josh Allen to be elite week in/week out to function. If McDermott needs Edmunds on a Defense that will have Von, Jones, Rousseau, Milano, Johnson, Elam, White and Hyde, then fire him now. Next year will tell us a lot about Brandon Beane and the coaching staff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbbillsfan Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said: Looking at Germaine Pratt or Drue Tranquill as cheaper replacements. There are also a number of super interesting guys in the draft. For what it's worth, Drue is good friends with Matt Barkley. However, i know he and his family Love being in socal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Just now, FireChans said: So why would a guard's cap hit be on $4M next year? Only doing cap wizardry for some players? Could be $4M with cap wizardry. Isaac Seumelo, the best FA Guard, is probably shooting for a $7M average (maybe more with how lauded the Philly line was this year). If that is who we're going to get in this fantasy then we'll need cap wizardry to get him down to $4M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Yeah, Ive been referencing Smith's deal for a while now. Check out the structure... https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/roquan-smith-25103/ Really nice setup for 3-4 years. I think we could swing that. If the question is paying Edmunds a full $20M this year, then heck no. But if his overall average is $20M with a wink wink, and he actually makes $9M and $13M... now we're talking. Roquan's cost will average out to $20M per for 3 or 4 years of play. I don't see any winking in that. Every big dollar contract cost less in cap hit the first 2 seasons because of guaranteed signing money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: Could be $4M with cap wizardry. Isaac Seumelo, the best FA Guard, is probably shooting for a $7M average (maybe more with how lauded the Philly line was this year). If that is who we're going to get in this fantasy then we'll need cap wizardry to get him down to $4M. We just did it last year with Saffold. Paid him 6.5M, only was 4 against the cap. The thing about Roquan's contract is their "out" is really 15M of dead cap. A not so insignificant number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo1105 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Could be $4M with cap wizardry. Isaac Seumelo, the best FA Guard, is probably shooting for a $7M average (maybe more with how lauded the Philly line was this year). If that is who we're going to get in this fantasy then we'll need cap wizardry to get him down to $4M. Top Guards make way more than 7 million a year. We gave old ass Saffold 6 million. Seumelo is going to be in the 9-11 AAV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Just now, ColoradoBills said: Roquan's cost will average out to $20M per for 3 or 4 years of play. I don't see any winking in that. Every big dollar contract cost less in cap hit the first 2 seasons because of guaranteed signing money. No it wont. The Ravens have an out after year 3 that would make it a 4/$60 or $15M average 1 minute ago, FireChans said: We just did it last year with Saffold. Paid him 6.5M, only was 4 against the cap. The thing about Roquan's contract is their "out" is really 15M of dead cap. A not so insignificant number. Sure, but it will be less significant 4 years from now with the growing cap. And if Saffold is the type of guard we can sign for that money, I'd rather spend FA money on Edmunds and draft a couple Interior OL early. Like 2 in the first 3 rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: No it wont. The Ravens have an out after year 3 that would make it a 4/$60 or $15M average No you're wrong. After year 3, if they cut him, they have a hit of $15M. Which makes it 3 years, $60M. You don't get to cut a guy and let him keep playing for you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) Just now, FireChans said: No you're wrong. After year 3, if they cut him, they have a hit of $15M. Which makes it 3 years, $60M. You don't get to cut a guy and let him keep playing for you. They dont get hit with that $15M until year 4. So its spread out for 4 years, making it 4/$60M. Edited February 17, 2023 by DrDawkinstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: They dont pay that $15M until year 4. So its spread out for 4 years, making it 4/$60M. But he's not playing for them year 4. So he plays for them for 3 years for $60M total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Just now, FireChans said: But he's not playing for them year 4. So he plays for them for 3 years for $60M total. But the cap is what matters, and they'll have $15M to spend in year 3. And lost $15 in year 4. 4 years of cap hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donuts and Doritos Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Wonder if he wants to play with his Brother in Pittsburgh or is just after the $$? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Ah, the sour grapes of the Edmunds haterz. Never gets old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigotz Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Silver lining, if he leaves and gets paid top tier money, we potentially get a 3rd or 4th round comp pick as long as we dont sign more guys than we lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: But the cap is what matters, and they'll have $15M to spend in year 3. And lost $15 in year 4. 4 years of cap hits. That's not what you said. Either way, Roquan Smith IS making $20M per for 3 years. It's front-loaded, like most big contracts are, to reduce early cap hits. These contracts are pretty common in the NFL. I don't want to pay Tremaine a cap hit of $9M next year to take a $15M cap hit to cut him 2 years later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Remember when the Chiefs let guys like Ward, Matthieu, Ingram and Reed go, while trading Tyreek Hill and then won a Super Bowl the following year? Sometimes you let good/great players walk and the re-allocation of assets allows you to build a team more suited to winning a Super Bowl. Maybe that’s us this year letting Poyer and Edmunds walk, along with, perhaps, trading away a guy for picks and/or to free up cap. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyoAZBillfan Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said: Bears, Texans, Giants, Raiders all have a huge need there and have a ton of cap space. I have my money on the Bears or Texans. I recall Steelers having a big interest as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: No it wont. The Ravens have an out after year 3 that would make it a 4/$60 or $15M average 1st year - $9M cap hit 2nd year - $13.5M 3rd year - $22.5M Release at the start of 4th year with a $15M dead cap hit. That equals a total of $60M for 3 years of play. If he actually plays the 4th year it costs $27.5M more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Big Turk said: This is called, the Bills told him they weren't keeping him at the price he wanted and thanked him for his services and wished him the best of luck. Wouldn't be surprised if team floated him offer but his Agent probably doesn't think it is enough and they can probably fetch more on open market. So doesn't appear deal is going to be done before FA opens. I wouldn't break the bank for Edmunds if someone is going to drastically overpay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfandBills Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Will drink to lose him but we can’t pay 15+ million a year to a decent linebacker. 11 minutes ago, Rigotz said: Silver lining, if he leaves and gets paid top tier money, we potentially get a 3rd or 4th round comp pick as long as we dont sign more guys than we lose. Wont happen. They need to sign a lot of guys just to fill roster spots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, FireChans said: That's not what you said. It's exactly what I said because I was being very careful as I knew I was treading the GM line of 4th year = dead cap/no play. 5 minutes ago, FireChans said: Either way, Roquan Smith IS making $20M per for 3 years. It's front-loaded, like most big contracts are, to reduce early cap hits. These contracts are pretty common in the NFL. What is 9 + 13.5 + 22.5? 5 minutes ago, FireChans said: I don't want to pay Tremaine a cap hit of $9M next year to take a $15M cap hit to cut him 2 years later. Fair enough if that's your opinion. Completely valid, and I'm not a huge Edmunds fan either. I'm not staunchly against letting him walk. Point is, he only averages $20M/yr if he plays the entire contract. Which we also know is unlikely in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Part of me wants McDermott and Beane to be forced to play Bernard at starting MLB. …just so they have to own the idiocy of that pick. Then I remember I’d likely be cutting off my nose to spite my face. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: It's exactly what I said because I was being very careful as I knew I was treading the GM line of 4th year = dead cap/no play. What is 9 + 13.5 + 22.5? Fair enough if that's your opinion. Completely valid, and I'm not a huge Edmunds fan either. I'm not staunchly against letting him walk. Point is, he only averages $20M/yr if he plays the entire contract. Which we also know is unlikely in the NFL. You said "pay him." Not cap hit. Their cap hit is spread over 4 years regardless. But he is paid for 3 years at 20M. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 hours ago, dpberr said: I don't see any of these players being on the 2023 team. Phillips had a bad year due to injury, I would gladly take him back on a 1yr/$1M prove it deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 42 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Smith is only making $9M this year and $13M next year, and has a good out after year 3. That would be a base salary pay cut for Edmunds (obviously made up in signing bonus for both Smith and Edmunds). This is the part that is not true. Smith MAKES $27M next season. He only costs $9M against the cap. Edited February 17, 2023 by FireChans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: I feel like I heard this a lot about Milano in the early part of the 2021 offseason as well, and then he signed with the Bills. I dont think Edmunds is gone yet. Milano and Edmunds are very different people. Milano told his agent "make it happen" so he did although agent probably would have preferred that he went on market to make his commission higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCbillsfan Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 50 minutes ago, SCBills said: Remember when the Chiefs let guys like Ward, Matthieu, Ingram and Reed go, while trading Tyreek Hill and then won a Super Bowl the following year? Sometimes you let good/great players walk and the re-allocation of assets allows you to build a team more suited to winning a Super Bowl. Maybe that’s us this year letting Poyer and Edmunds walk, along with, perhaps, trading away a guy for picks and/or to free up cap. If Edmunds walks, the Bills could likely sign 2 FA guards (Ben Powers, Dalton Eisner, etc) and a FA MLB for the amount of money Edmunds gets and likely have money left over. Edmunds is probably trying to get Roquan Smith $ if not more. 5yr $45M gtd $100 M total. Edited February 17, 2023 by DCbillsfan 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said: Ah, the sour grapes of the Edmunds haterz. Never gets old. You could always go with raisins rather than be pro-sour grapes. Doesn't have to be a love or hate relationship though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Just now, FireChans said: This is the part that is not true. Smith MAKES $27M next season. He only costs $9M against the cap. Ok Counsel, you got me there. Yes, Bisciotti will cut a check for $27M for Smith (if he hasnt already). But all that matters to fans and GMs is the cap hit, not the owner's cash. Ralph aint here no more for that BS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: Ok Counsel, you got me there. Yes, Bisciotti will cut a check for $27M for Smith (if he hasnt already). But all that matters to fans and GMs is the cap hit, not the owner's cash. Ralph aint here no more for that BS. Lol I didn't want to belabor the point, but that's how the agents will sell it. Let's pay Mike Evans instead. We can sign Deion Jones to $8-9M x 3 years with a teeny tiny cap hit and swing for the fences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 16 minutes ago, SCBills said: Remember when the Chiefs let guys like Ward, Matthieu, Ingram and Reed go, while trading Tyreek Hill and then won a Super Bowl the following year? Sometimes you let good/great players walk and the re-allocation of assets allows you to build a team more suited to winning a Super Bowl. Maybe that’s us this year letting Poyer and Edmunds walk, along with, perhaps, trading away a guy for picks and/or to free up cap. Thank you. We need to pivot bigtime to offense. We let McB have 3 years of a defensive smorgasbord and it didn't work. Build a dominant OL. Find a 2nd wr better than Davis. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said: If Edmunds walks, the Bills could likely sign 2 FA guards (Ben Powers, Dalton Eisner, etc) and a FA MLB for the amount of money Edmunds gets and likely have money left over. Edmunds is probably trying to get Roquan Smith if not more. 5yr $45M gtd $100 M total. Yup .. I always thought it was managerial malpractice to pay Edmunds, but just assumed they do whatever it takes to do so. Even if he gets a modest contract at 14-16M per and we use that money on the top available starting Guard and an adequate MLB or a decent vet starting Safety, that’s such a far better allocation of resources. The offense needs a good Guard and the defense should only need a decent MLB and decent Safety, given all the talent we have coming back on the D. Edited February 17, 2023 by SCBills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillMafia716ix Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 He’s a free agent. Of course he’s going to test the market. He would be a fool not to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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