Singletary or Hines or neither?

[SirAndrew]

11 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Yeah nobody is going to sign Devin to be a feature back. Maybe a #2. I hope that he is not back. He ain’t it. 

Yeah, I don’t understand what people are seeing. The yards per carry stuff doesn’t do much for me. We have Allen spreading the defense out, slinging the ball everywhere. Why shouldn’t we get four yards per carry on the occasional surprise handoff? Our o line is a mess, but I don’t see Singletary as a feature back. I credit him for running well with power, but he doesn’t have anything special. Whenever he bursts past the line of scrimmage I’m waiting for him to get caught from behind. Once he moves into the second level, he has no ability to break away. Those are things I see with my eyes, not told by statistics. Singletary is a nice guy to have on the roster, but I’m not going out of my way to keep him, and wouldn’t worry about losing him. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by SirAndrew

[Gunsgoodtime]

Let Singletary walk, restructure Hines, draft a late round RB

[SirAndrew]

6 minutes ago, Maybe Someday said:

He can be part of a pretty good duo though. He’s got a really good career YPC. If only he weren’t so slow. 

I agree, Singletary would seem much better with some help in the backfield. His lack of speed is what I can’t get past. This is a big play offense, and the feature back doesn’t have big play ability. An offense that spreads out the defense needs backs who can take it to the house, otherwise the occasional four yard gain seems like a waste. I think Singletary might be better suited as a contributor in more of a ground and pound attack. 

[LABILLBACKER]

If we're never going to prioritize the run game, at least we might have a fast home run threat in Cook who could occassional take a 30 yard run to the house. I'm betting they keep Hines and restructure his contract,  then draft a late round guy to compete. 

[Pirate Angel]

why keep any RB if we arent going to use them?

[JerseyBills]

Motor complements Cook way better than Hines. Ideally I'd like to keep both. I loved the idea of having a Hines/Cook package, which we saw for 1 game and never again . I believe we saw Cook/Hines for about 15 plays that day and for whatever reason Dorsey stopped that package. I always thought that was a package that could be deadly if used correct 

 

Hines had 4 offensive reps vs Cincy. Unacceptable. 

 

They were a very effective rushing team but failed to consistently establish a run gm. Dorsey just refused and alot of times was predictable.  But Motor has proven to be a lifetime 4.6 ypc which is borderline elite and without looking I'm pretty sure Cook was 5.5 ypc in limited reps

 

I believe this is a coaching issue way more than a talent/player issue

Edited January 27, 2023 by JerseyBills

[ALLEN1QB]

10 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Heinz is also an excellent punt returner he gives more versatility
 

I’m not down on Devon. I still think that the problem is who’s blocking in front of them

 

But this is gonna come down to dollars

Buffalo has never figured that out for some reason. 

[3rdand12]

10 hours ago, Bandito said:

Motor by a mile and it ain't close

If they let Motor go ?

 Josh will become angry  lol
But I would like all three to remain and draft one who can play teams with upside as short yardage

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I hear ya, I still don’t he will ever be more than a 10-12 carry a game guy. Hes meh

Maybe some downfield blocking might help ?
Morse cant always be the guy downfield . some of the WRs need to get some.

and allow me to circle back to the dipshtick who calls plays Sending receivers deep on a run play  lol

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew said:

I agree, Singletary would seem much better with some help in the backfield. His lack of speed is what I can’t get past. This is a big play offense, and the feature back doesn’t have big play ability. An offense that spreads out the defense needs backs who can take it to the house, otherwise the occasional four yard gain seems like a waste. I think Singletary might be better suited as a contributor in more of a ground and pound attack. 

Maybe its the concept that is wrong then ?

 Tailor the play calling to help the players succeed.
getting grumpy now
I dislike Dorsey
 

[Maine-iac]

All the people who are sold on how fast a back has to be are the same ones who would have taken Spiller over Freddie back in the day,  Singletary has plenty of speed to carry the ball and he makes people miss and picks up extra yards.  He just never gets a chance and that's not his fault.  I like Cook a lot also but if it's 3rd and 1 and we need a yard if it's not Allen the next I'd want to see carrying the ball would be Motor.

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

If they let Motor go ?

 Josh will become angry  lol
But I would like all three to remain and draft one who can play teams with upside as short yardage

Maybe some downfield blocking might help ?
Morse cant always be the guy downfield . some of the WRs need to get some.

and allow me to circle back to the dipshtick who calls plays Sending receivers deep on a run play  lol

If you have speed, downfield blocking doesn’t matter. I mean I like Singletary, but he isn’t special and that’s why you do not pay him. His blocking is ok, he can catch a little. Solid, but meh. And I think that is why they keep drafting RBs, so they never have to pay one. 

[ganesh]

12 hours ago, Dopey said:

I don’t see Hines getting a ton of carries. I think he’ll be our primary kick returner. He’s really good at it. Singletary leaves for more money. We’ll draft a rb late and a fa. Just my thoughts. 

And Hines contract will get adjusted.  He either takes a pay cut or his 2023 salary will get converted to a bonus and make him a one year rental.

[DCofNC]

Hines either renegotiates or is gone.  Motor will have to be cheap, but in all honesty, I can’t see them bringing him back, he should get a reasonable deal in FA and the Bills should recognize they could have just kept their own UDFA last year and had equal production, there’s no real reason to commit resources to RB.

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

If you have speed, downfield blocking doesn’t matter. I mean I like Singletary, but he isn’t special and that’s why you do not pay him. His blocking is ok, he can catch a little. Solid, but meh. And I think that is why they keep drafting RBs, so they never have to pay one. 

I feel we fans are looking for someone to blow our proverbial socks off sometimes
 you can scheme him and Cook and Hines to function very well

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, 3rdand12 said:

I feel we fans are looking for someone to blow our proverbial socks off sometimes
 you can scheme him and Cook and Hines to function very well

I just want to pay the guy who knocks my socks off. I am just against signing a meh player whose production can be filled by a mid round rookie. Spend another draft pick on another average back. That’s fine in my book. Paying an average RB doesn’t make sense unless he is extremely cheap. 

[billsfan89]

Ideally I would like to keep Hines as a gadget player and returner but he has to take a pay cut down to the 2.5ish million range. I would also like to bring back Singletary at around 3.5 million range. 
 

Between the two I would rather have Singletary back as I think he is a more all around back

[MrEpsYtown]

28 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Ideally I would like to keep Hines as a gadget player and returner but he has to take a pay cut down to the 2.5ish million range. I would also like to bring back Singletary at around 3.5 million range. 
 

Between the two I would rather have Singletary back as I think he is a more all around back

But then you are spending like 6 million or so on the position. In that case I would rather just sign a Miles Sanders, David Montgomery type in that 6-8 million range. Honestly I’d cut down Hines’s pay and replace Devin with a rookie.
 

3.5 does make some sense though. That was what the range was thats they were going to pay for McKittrick. BTW they got extremely lucky there. Washington did the Bills a favor. He totally sucked this year. No touchdowns. 95 yards rushing, 173 receiving. Got hurt. Might be done as it is his second serious neck injury and he is probably going to get cut. Again, exhibit 6,734 why you don’t pay running backs unless they are elite. After the elite its all the same. 

[BillsFanForever19]

Hines on a restructure. If he refuses a pay cut, you cut him. If that happens, you look at what Singletary is asking and if it isn't too much, re-sign him. If he is asking too much, get a comparable RB in FA opposite Cook. Draft a RB regardless. If you're without Hines and Singletary - one would have to be Drafted high.

[Dr.Sack]

Hines > Singletary all things non RB. I suppose Singletary is gone assuming we want a RB on the rookie deal. Sad, but reality. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

11 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Let Singletary walk, restructure Hines, draft a late round RB

Backs are loaded in this years draft we can find a bk starting in 4th rd. I love me some Sean Tucker from Cuse but I think he’ll go late 2nd/3rd rd. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

3 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Backs are loaded in this years draft we can find a bk starting in 4th rd. I love me some Sean Tucker from Cuse but I think he’ll go late 2nd/3rd rd. 

Rather take a later round swing at a bigger back. Started looking at Roshon Jonhnson from Texas. Converted QB to RB freshman year. 6'2" 223. 🤔

[NastyNateSoldiers]

2 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Rather take a later round swing at a bigger back. Started looking at Roshon Jonhnson from Texas. Converted QB to RB freshman year. 6'2" 223. 🤔

I’ll check him out. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

6 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Rather take a later round swing at a bigger back. Started looking at Roshon Jonhnson from Texas. Converted QB to RB freshman year. 6'2" 223. 🤔

Sean Tucker got nice size to him 5’10 210lbs he reminds me of Freddy Jack or Matt Forte but a lot more explosive. I love the kid he’s my favorite back in this draft. The Bills would be lucky to get him in the 3rd rd of the draft. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

On 1/27/2023 at 7:09 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

Cook isn't going anywhere.  He has looked better as the season progressed and still has three years left on his rookie contract and has a cap friendly hit of $1.3mm in 2023.  I don't think Beane is going to keep both Singletary and Hines.  It is going to be one or the other.

 

Nyheim's contract is not cheap, his cap hit in 2023 is $4.79mm, and in 2024 it is $5.48 

https://overthecap.com/player/nyheim-hines/6989

 

Singletary is an unrestricted free agent and according to Sportrac his projected free agent contract should be right around $5.5mm annually for three years.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/devin-singletary-29110/market-value/

 

Hines is great in the return game and has stand alone value in that respect.  He has more speed than Motor and is probably a better receiving back than Motor.  We haven't seen him carry the ball much.  In his five years in the league the most carries he's had in a season was 89 in 2020.  That year he averaged 4.3 yds per carry.  His career average is 3.9 yds per carry.  The most receptions Hines had in a season was 63 in both '18 and '20.  His career average yds per reception is 7.4 yds.  Across his career, Hines catch percentage is 77%.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HineNy00.htm

 

Singletary had 177 carries this year and averaged 4.6 yds per carry.  He had 38 receptions this year with an average of 7.4 yds per reception.  The most receptions he's had was 40 in the '21 season.  Across Motor's career, his catch percentage is 75%.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SingDe00.htm

 

The question is which back, Motor or Hines, compliments Cooks the best?  In Cook we have a speedy / receiving back.  That is the same skill set that Hines brings to the table, plus his return skills.  Does it make sense for the offense to have their two primary RBs with essentially the same skill set?  Also, are Cook and Hines able to soak up the 170 plus carries Singletary has a season?   Cooks has looked good running the ball but has a smaller frame.  Can we expect him to hold up carrying the ball 100+ times a year in the NFL?

 

Singletary's projected free agent contract isn't much more than what Hines is under contract for now.  What does Beane decide to do?  The problem is I don't think Beane can afford both.  Beane's last option is to release both of them and build around Cook with new faces.

 

 

Keep Cook and trade for a veteran guy who has SB victory experience, McCaffrey!

[Inigo Montoya]

1 hour ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Keep Cook and trade for a veteran guy who has SB victory experience, McCaffrey!

 

But If that happens you wouldn't be able to go to any games. Doesn't McCaffrey have a restraining order on you???

☺️

[Sherlock Holmes]

3 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

But If that happens you wouldn't be able to go to any games. Doesn't McCaffrey have a restraining order on you???

☺️

You know that commercial where the couple's aunt is staying over and is rooting through the fridge saying "expired, expired, EXPIRED!"??? That's me in my filing cabinet with restraining orders from players...

Edited January 28, 2023 by Sherlock Holmes

[OldTimer1960]

Singletary is one of my favorite players.  I love the shiftiness and hard running for his size, but if any team offers him a substantial amount, Bills will have to let him leave.  They have to be very careful with how the spend cap money now that Allen’s big contract is kicking in.

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Singletary is one of my favorite players.  I love the shiftiness and hard running for his size, but if any team offers him a substantial amount, Bills will have to let him leave.  They have to be very careful with how the spend cap money now that Allen’s big contract is kicking in.

He does give it his all. He is smart and catches balls, picks up blitzes well.
No Fred Jackson but who is ?
it will be about money. obviously

[billsfan89]

19 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

But then you are spending like 6 million or so on the position. In that case I would rather just sign a Miles Sanders, David Montgomery type in that 6-8 million range. Honestly I’d cut down Hines’s pay and replace Devin with a rookie.
 

3.5 does make some sense though. That was what the range was thats they were going to pay for McKittrick. BTW they got extremely lucky there. Washington did the Bills a favor. He totally sucked this year. No touchdowns. 95 yards rushing, 173 receiving. Got hurt. Might be done as it is his second serious neck injury and he is probably going to get cut. Again, exhibit 6,734 why you don’t pay running backs unless they are elite. After the elite its all the same. 

I think Sanders and Montgomery would probably cost you more than 6 million and the added benefit of Singletary/Hines combo at 6 million over a single back at around that range would be that you get an added benefit of having Hines as a returner and you don’t have to burn a mid round pick that could be used for depth or development elsewhere.

 

 

[Maine-iac]

37 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

I think Sanders and Montgomery would probably cost you more than 6 million and the added benefit of Singletary/Hines combo at 6 million over a single back at around that range would be that you get an added benefit of having Hines as a returner and you don’t have to burn a mid round pick that could be used for depth or development elsewhere.

 

 

Stop making sense.

[John from Riverside]

To me this boils down to what are we going to see from James Cook next year
 

Does James Cook find a way to pack on an extra 10 pounds and be able to run between the tackles effectively and do it more often than he did in college?

 

Hines is also not that guy that’s going to consistently run between the tackles

 

I’m not saying, go out and spend big money on some prize, free agent running back we can’t afford to do that. Be perfectly honest I would not be against bringing Duke Johnson back again next year who did well every time he got an opportunity.

 

Fixing the run, blocking, would go along way to more consistency and running the ball which we need but I would not be against a banger on the roster with some size

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

I love Motor, but he’s gone I think. Cook is going to the guy. You don’t draft a RB in the 2nd round as a complimentary back. Hines I could care less. Dorsey does not know how to use him correctly so hit potential goes out the window. 

[John from Riverside]

Cook Hines, and draft a running back with power and size late

[NastyNateSoldiers]

14 hours ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

You know that commercial where the couple's aunt is staying over and is rooting through the fridge saying "expired, expired, EXPIRED!"??? That's me in my filing cabinet with restraining orders from players...

This to funny, lol kind of reminds of McD & Frazier Defense. 

[MrEpsYtown]

13 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

I think Sanders and Montgomery would probably cost you more than 6 million and the added benefit of Singletary/Hines combo at 6 million over a single back at around that range would be that you get an added benefit of having Hines as a returner and you don’t have to burn a mid round pick that could be used for depth or development elsewhere.

 

 

Yep I feel you, but I just like quality over quantity. That is why we are home right now, lack of quality. 

[JaCrispy]

16 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

He does give it his all. He is smart and catches balls, picks up blitzes well.
No Fred Jackson but who is ?
it will be about money. obviously

This RB class is simply too good not to upgrade Singletary…he’s a nice guy who plays hard, but we can do much better…👍

[Simon Says]

On 1/27/2023 at 7:09 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

Cook isn't going anywhere.  He has looked better as the season progressed and still has three years left on his rookie contract and has a cap friendly hit of $1.3mm in 2023.  I don't think Beane is going to keep both Singletary and Hines.  It is going to be one or the other.

 

Nyheim's contract is not cheap, his cap hit in 2023 is $4.79mm, and in 2024 it is $5.48 

https://overthecap.com/player/nyheim-hines/6989

 

Singletary is an unrestricted free agent and according to Sportrac his projected free agent contract should be right around $5.5mm annually for three years.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/devin-singletary-29110/market-value/

 

Hines is great in the return game and has stand alone value in that respect.  He has more speed than Motor and is probably a better receiving back than Motor.  We haven't seen him carry the ball much.  In his five years in the league the most carries he's had in a season was 89 in 2020.  That year he averaged 4.3 yds per carry.  His career average is 3.9 yds per carry.  The most receptions Hines had in a season was 63 in both '18 and '20.  His career average yds per reception is 7.4 yds.  Across his career, Hines catch percentage is 77%.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HineNy00.htm

 

Singletary had 177 carries this year and averaged 4.6 yds per carry.  He had 38 receptions this year with an average of 7.4 yds per reception.  The most receptions he's had was 40 in the '21 season.  Across Motor's career, his catch percentage is 75%.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SingDe00.htm

 

The question is which back, Motor or Hines, compliments Cooks the best?  In Cook we have a speedy / receiving back.  That is the same skill set that Hines brings to the table, plus his return skills.  Does it make sense for the offense to have their two primary RBs with essentially the same skill set?  Also, are Cook and Hines able to soak up the 170 plus carries Singletary has a season?   Cooks has looked good running the ball but has a smaller frame.  Can we expect him to hold up carrying the ball 100+ times a year in the NFL?

 

Singletary's projected free agent contract isn't much more than what Hines is under contract for now.  What does Beane decide to do?  The problem is I don't think Beane can afford both.  Beane's last option is to release both of them and build around Cook with new faces.

 

 

Or...let Singletary walk and DRAFT a back maybe a bigger,power runner.

[Yantha]

I'm greedy.  I want both back.

 

But if Hines is under contract next year, he's the guy.

 

Singletary MAY want to test the market, and I'd bring him back if we can be reasonably competitive in negotiations.  Lot's of talent in the draft, plus we have some good depth to step up.

[LyndonvilleBill]

I would like both back as well and I'm sure this will shock a few, I would look at Hines as a replacement for McKenzie and not as a replacement for Singletary. 😱😱. He can run the gadget plays, can play slot if needed, can line up in the backfield, plus both KR/P returns.

[3rdand12]

7 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I would like both back as well and I'm sure this will shock a few, I would look at Hines as a replacement for McKenzie and not as a replacement for Singletary. 😱😱. He can run the gadget plays, can play slot if needed, can line up in the backfield, plus both KR/P returns.

its a thought worth considering. As long as Bills have an answer to slot beyond Beasley .

 Hines surely has more to give than Dorsey has made use of  IMHO