Ya Digg? Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 16 hours ago, JayBaller10 said: Edmunds has had a fine season, but when we were getting gashed by the Dolphins, I felt it was exhibit A of why he shouldn’t get a substantial $14M/yr+ contract after this season. Allocate that money to the offense, specifically OL, and let Bernard or a rookie compete with AJK for the position opposite Milano. Sure the defense won’t be as strong, but seeing as how they never really shut down a top offense, it’s better to get Josh the help he needs to sustain a high level of play. For a team up against the salary cap, tough decisions will be made… I’m all for getting Josh more help, but holy crap the thought of Bernard or Klein starting the entire season scares me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosejob Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 16 hours ago, Governor said: We understand his role. The problem is that he doesn’t make the play when the ball or ball carrier enters his area of the field. He makes plenty of splash plays. He splashes into the pile right after the tackle is made..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 People say he doesn’t lay the lumber on running backs but I imagine running into him would be like running into a light pole. I forget who said it but the said they had never been hit so hard before. Just sayin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 Edmunds is still only 24 years old. Poyer is 31. That answers which one is more likely to be back. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 17 hours ago, KDIGGZ said: If you did it based on play this season then it would be: 1. Poyer 2. Oliver 3. Edmunds But I think they are going to put more weight on the position and their perceived importance to the defensive scheme so probably: 1. Oliver 2. Edmunds 3. Poyer (probably not able to retain) Edmunds disappears in games and despite his gigantic size he seems to be easily blocked out of plays and isn't a big hitter. He doesn't make the "splash plays" that a star LB should be making. He plays the Kuechly position, he should be gobbling up stats but Milano is far and away the star of the LB's. I think they will sign him and hope that he keeps improving and you can't coach size and he is able to get in the way of a lot of passes without doing much but standing there So I take it you weren’t paying attention to what was going on whenever Edmonds was out 34 minutes ago, nosejob said: He makes plenty of splash plays. He splashes into the pile right after the tackle is made..... Glasses should be required for watching games 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 People keep saying we have to create a lot of cap space for Edmunds. He's making 12.7MM this year on his 5th year option. Sign him to a 4 yr deal and spread the signing bonus, and he actually could help the cap in 2023. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaggersEOD Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 17 hours ago, JayBaller10 said: Edmunds has had a fine season, but when we were getting gashed by the Dolphins, I felt it was exhibit A of why he shouldn’t get a substantial $14M/yr+ contract after this season. Allocate that money to the offense, specifically OL, and let Bernard or a rookie compete with AJK for the position opposite Milano. Sure the defense won’t be as strong, but seeing as how they never really shut down a top offense, it’s better to get Josh the help he needs to sustain a high level of play. For a team up against the salary cap, tough decisions will be made… It’s taken me a few years to get here but I’m on the “Sign TE” side now. My eyeball tells me that the Bills don’t GAF if you can run on them, because our O can outscore any run game. We schematically seem to sell out on the pass and essentially hope they “waste a down” by running. We get gashed by the run occasionally but we rarely get gashed through the air and TE is the key to that. I’ll admit, I don’t like the approach. VERY frustrating to watch us stay in Nickel as the opponent methodically marches down the field. The thing is, the opponent drive often stalls as it’s difficult to string that many positive plays in a row. I don’t think there are many (any?) other LBs in the NFL that ALLOWS us to run the D we currently run successfully. Like I said, this is all eyeball, but the games w/out TE really helped me see this perspective. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoros Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 18 hours ago, Sharky7337 said: I was all for signing these defensive core players, but after watching games, does it even really matter? I feel like you cannot stop the good offenses much anyways. I think I'd rather spend the money on offense. Spending the money doesn’t guarantee a good player, even more so if that player will fit in the scheme. Drafting and developing is very important, and the team should instead put a priority on offensive positions moving forward in the draft. As hard as defense can be these days, the Bills have s good one, and we all see the major drop off when Edmonds is out. To me, he is the number 1 resign based on age, position, play. He’s stepped up huge this year, and for most of the board him being, “young” and developing has been running joke, yet here we are, he has taking a major step forward. At this point, there is no reason to doubt that he won’t continue to make strides in his overall play. He’s definitely playing with a lot more confidence this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky7337 Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Tanoros said: Spending the money doesn’t guarantee a good player, even more so if that player will fit in the scheme. Drafting and developing is very important, and the team should instead put a priority on offensive positions moving forward in the draft. As hard as defense can be these days, the Bills have s good one, and we all see the major drop off when Edmonds is out. To me, he is the number 1 resign based on age, position, play. He’s stepped up huge this year, and for most of the board him being, “young” and developing has been running joke, yet here we are, he has taking a major step forward. At this point, there is no reason to doubt that he won’t continue to make strides in his overall play. He’s definitely playing with a lot more confidence this year. My issue is when the majority of players we draft and develop don't produce at their draft level until their last year before free agency if at all. The obvious two exceptions being tre white, Edmunds(arguably), milano. Oliver, epenesa, Basham, Phillips (harrison), Rousseau, Hamlin, Joquan, elam, the linebacker we took this year Some of these are arguable and or having decent seasons, but if we are not getting the production except for one year and getting average to below average play while they "develop" it starts to look like a bad formula. By the time they become an asset they leave for money. Oliver is being on the list due to his draft position more so then his play, but every year he's supposed to become this big impact guy, flashes like once or twice, but then never seems to be consistent Edited January 1, 2023 by Sharky7337 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 36 minutes ago, DaggersEOD said: It’s taken me a few years to get here but I’m on the “Sign TE” side now. My eyeball tells me that the Bills don’t GAF if you can run on them, because our O can outscore any run game. We schematically seem to sell out on the pass and essentially hope they “waste a down” by running. We get gashed by the run occasionally but we rarely get gashed through the air and TE is the key to that. I’ll admit, I don’t like the approach. VERY frustrating to watch us stay in Nickel as the opponent methodically marches down the field. The thing is, the opponent drive often stalls as it’s difficult to string that many positive plays in a row. I don’t think there are many (any?) other LBs in the NFL that ALLOWS us to run the D we currently run successfully. Like I said, this is all eyeball, but the games w/out TE really helped me see this perspective. Don’t feel bad. Beane still hasn’t decided whether to pay Edmunds or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 19 hours ago, Governor said: We understand his role. The problem is that he doesn’t make the play when the ball or ball carrier enters his area of the field. He has, by far, the lowest missed tackle rate on the team. He's been outstanding this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 45 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said: My issue is when the majority of players we draft and develop don't produce at their draft level until their last year before free agency if at all. The obvious two exceptions being tre white, Edmunds(arguably), milano. Oliver, epenesa, Basham, Phillips (harrison), Rousseau, Hamlin, Joquan, elam, the linebacker we took this year Some of these are arguable and or having decent seasons, but if we are not getting the production except for one year and getting average to below average play while they "develop" it starts to look like a bad formula. By the time they become an asset they leave for money. Oliver is being on the list due to his draft position more so then his play, but every year he's supposed to become this big impact guy, flashes like once or twice, but then never seems to be consistent What in your mind would constitute playing up to their draft selection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 41 minutes ago, FireChans said: Don’t feel bad. Beane still hasn’t decided whether to pay Edmunds or not. Oh, interesting! What other top secret inside information did Beane tell you in your last conversation with him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 6 minutes ago, MPT said: Oh, interesting! What other top secret inside information did Beane tell you in your last conversation with him? It's not top secret info that Edmunds is playing on his fifth year option and unsigned for next year. Tre White was extended in September of year 4. Josh was extended August of year 4. Tremaine was left twisting in the wind in year 5 like Stephon GIlmore (who also was not re-signed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 Not to nitpick but I think run stop rate (used by Football Outsiders, but not sure when they compile/update it) is a better stat. Yes Edmunds doesn’t miss too many tackles. But too often he gets run over while making a tackle and the result is a first down. It’s happened much less this year but he’s just so tall, he gets out-leveraged. But again this is nitpicking. He’s been the most consistent player on defense this year other than Poyer, no question. He’s having a very good season. One game-changing play would sure be nice to get from him in the playoffs. He’s beyond due at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 I believe Edmunds will be priority #1 for re-signing. At the risk of repeating myself: he will complete 5 NFL seasons before turning 25. Reminder: Stetson Bennett is a 25 year old college boy. Edmunds has consistently improved, and his peak years - in a position that highly values experience - are ahead of him, and McD relies heavily on a MLB covering a lot of territory. He may not make the flashy plays, but he allows other playmakers like Poyer and Milano the freedom to do that. Lock him up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 49 minutes ago, FireChans said: It's not top secret info that Edmunds is playing on his fifth year option and unsigned for next year. Tre White was extended in September of year 4. Josh was extended August of year 4. Tremaine was left twisting in the wind in year 5 like Stephon GIlmore (who also was not re-signed) You can't compare a franchise QB to a LB no matter who the LB is. They also had a lot more resources to spare when Tre was signed. I'm not saying Beane is definitely going to sign him, but that's my point. Nobody outside the Bills front office knows what their plans are, and a few opinions from forum posters who don't recognize Edmunds' value certainly aren't evidence of anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, MPT said: You can't compare a franchise QB to a LB no matter who the LB is. They also had a lot more resources to spare when Tre was signed. I'm not saying Beane is definitely going to sign him, but that's my point. Nobody outside the Bills front office knows what their plans are, and a few opinions from forum posters who don't recognize Edmunds' value certainly aren't evidence of anything. Evidence of him not being signed is evidence of him not being signed. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, FireChans said: Evidence of him not being signed is evidence of him not being signed. Lol Strawman argument and moving the goal posts all in one sentence! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 21 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said: Top of the list to be signed to a long term extension next year imo. Over Ed Oliver Beane definitely has a lot to consider this off season & if he can find replacements cheaper in the draft Edmunds can demand top money for his position it should be interesting to say the least !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 28 minutes ago, MPT said: Strawman argument and moving the goal posts all in one sentence! What straw man? He’s not signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ga boy Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 21 hours ago, WhoTom said: Balance. Our offense was good enough to beat KC in the playoffs last year. Defense, not so much. However — if our offense was better, we would’ve won too. Ya dig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 I've been watching the pats game thread and they want to sign Edmunds and think it will be about $14 million per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky7337 Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 2 hours ago, John from Riverside said: What in your mind would constitute playing up to their draft selection? I'd argue that Oliver who was a top ten pick has not even played remotely close to that draft spot. Quinnen Williams was taken top ten also, and has become better. Christian Wilkins has more impact on games then Oliver. Oliver is not even listed in top defensive tackle rankings in PFF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 22 hours ago, Neo said: All due respect to you, but I think I’d describe your view as “Edmunds doesn’t do what you want to see him do because he’s busy doing what Frazier wants him to do.” I’m an old school, splash play, big hit, linebacker fan with memories back to Ray Nitschke. Edmunds does something completely different and the rest of the defenders have options they’d not have if he wasn’t covering acres playing the pass and the run, sideline to sideline, from the line of scrimmage with short and intermediate drops. I see the board split not as pro or con Edmunds, but as understand or not his role. IMHO …. respectfully. I dont think most on here have much of an issue with his use in pass coverage. He's very good to great in zone. He's average to below average in man. Most people's issue with Edmunds is his ability to defend the run. He's truly awful. Yes he doesn't have many missed tackles because he is blocked so far out of the play. The other issue is his utter lack of developing any pass rush ability. Both he and Milano blitz up the middle from time to time and Edmunds rarely if ever makes a play. At this point I would franchise him and bring him back for another year. Have Oliver play on his fifth year option. Sign Poyer to a 3 year deal. Then I spend my early draft picks on offense. Ideally Bills win SB this year or next then you let some of these high priced defenders walk and retool the defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 14 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said: I'd argue that Oliver who was a top ten pick has not even played remotely close to that draft spot. Quinnen Williams was taken top ten also, and has become better. Christian Wilkins has more impact on games then Oliver. Oliver is not even listed in top defensive tackle rankings in PFF You listed a lot more players than Ed Oliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 I'd spend the $$ on O line Edmunds isnt a difference maker to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 I think they should try to find a way to keep Edmunds. I think he has shown a ton of improvement this season. If not his replacement won’t come from FA because he really is the best guy on the market. Therefore it would have to come from the draft. I am in love with Jack Campbell. Like thats my draft crush. Also Noah Sewell is a monster. Both are great fits for what we do. The combine will probably tell us where they get drafted. Campbell instincts are off the charts and he’s as big as Tremaine, maybe not as fast. Inside linebacker is a back end of the first round type pick typically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 22 hours ago, JayBaller10 said: Edmunds has had a fine season, but when we were getting gashed by the Dolphins, I felt it was exhibit A of why he shouldn’t get a substantial $14M/yr+ contract after this season. Allocate that money to the offense, specifically OL, and let Bernard or a rookie compete with AJK for the position opposite Milano. Sure the defense won’t be as strong, but seeing as how they never really shut down a top offense, it’s better to get Josh the help he needs to sustain a high level of play. For a team up against the salary cap, tough decisions will be made… You should watch the game again. This time pay particular attention to how Milano played. Mostert juked him so bad, it was embarrassing. He’s still missing his jockstrap after that one. Any mention of that? Of course not. And it wasn’t just that play either. It would have been it’s own “Edmunds “ thread. In every game I can find mistakes by Milano that “Edmunds haters” seem to always miss. 🤔 We held opponents to under their scoring average in 11 out of 15 games, including 3 in the top 10 in scoring. We held KC to 20 points. We would have held Minny to below their average but Josh gifted them at least 10 points. Our defense is second in scoring against to SF, but ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 On 12/31/2022 at 1:45 PM, KDIGGZ said: If you did it based on play this season then it would be: 1. Poyer 2. Oliver 3. Edmunds But I think they are going to put more weight on the position and their perceived importance to the defensive scheme so probably: 1. Oliver 2. Edmunds 3. Poyer (probably not able to retain) Edmunds disappears in games and despite his gigantic size he seems to be easily blocked out of plays and isn't a big hitter. He doesn't make the "splash plays" that a star LB should be making. He plays the Kuechly position, he should be gobbling up stats but Milano is far and away the star of the LB's. I think they will sign him and hope that he keeps improving and you can't coach size and he is able to get in the way of a lot of passes without doing much but standing there how many cliche, talking points can one put in one paragraph. So, you can't coach size? Brilliant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 3 hours ago, FireChans said: What straw man? He’s not signed. Obviously. That's not what we're debating here. You just want to be snarky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 On 12/31/2022 at 12:38 PM, Gunsgoodtime said: Top of the list to be signed to a long term extension next year imo. Over Ed Oliver Let Oliver play out 2023 and make a decision then in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 Watch them able to keep all of them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanoros Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 8 hours ago, Sharky7337 said: My issue is when the majority of players we draft and develop don't produce at their draft level until their last year before free agency if at all. The obvious two exceptions being tre white, Edmunds(arguably), milano. Oliver, epenesa, Basham, Phillips (harrison), Rousseau, Hamlin, Joquan, elam, the linebacker we took this year Some of these are arguable and or having decent seasons, but if we are not getting the production except for one year and getting average to below average play while they "develop" it starts to look like a bad formula. By the time they become an asset they leave for money. Oliver is being on the list due to his draft position more so then his play, but every year he's supposed to become this big impact guy, flashes like once or twice, but then never seems to be consistent I see what your saying and it is frustrating, it seems like other teams have more breakout young guys than us in this McDermott/Beane era. But also, that is the norm for these young guys, come in and improve each year, and most aren’t stars right away. At this point in time, we do need to shift more towards guys who have an impact sooner, but that will be at the expense of something else (athletics traits, or not a position of need, etc). Unless things fall into place perfectly, there will be some give and take. One good thing to consider about developing more guys than we can afford is that we will have seen them in our system and will not be gambling as much as someone in FA from another team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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