Ken Dorsey is really really good

[Einstein]

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I do. As a leader in a sporting field and a professional one you will never get me to say showing a total loss of control is a good look. It isn't. 

 

Josh Allen will say it for you.

 

”Our guys fricking love seeing that. I know people might be making a big deal out of it, but as players, we freaking love seeing that.”

 

That’s the leader of the entire team saying that.

 

Your opinion is in disagreeable with the actual players on the teams. What does that say about how your opinion is actually felt within the locker room?

 

I get that your experience as a Pee Wee coach (you said you coach kids sports, right?) gives you perspective, but does the actual opinion of the players on the team matter to you? Or only your moral high ground?

 

.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Einstein

[Malazan]

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2022/secrets-behind-buffalo-bills-resurgent-run-game

[Einstein]

Dorsey is expertly scheming guys open (with the help of the players skill of course). 

 

 

[Beck Water]

30 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Josh Allen will say it for you.

 

”Our guys fricking love seeing that. I know people might be making a big deal out of it, but as players, we freaking love seeing that.”

 

That’s the leader of the entire team saying that.

 

Your opinion is in disagreeable with the actual players on the teams. What does that say about how your opinion is actually felt within the locker room?.

 

Errrr....if Dorsey's goal is to be hired as a HC, it's the opinion of the actual owners of the teams, not their employees (players) that are the question.

[Nephilim17]

36 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Errrr....if Dorsey's goal is to be hired as a HC, it's the opinion of the actual owners of the teams, not their employees (players) that are the question.

You don't believe an owner performing due diligence on a potential coaching hire wants to know what that coach's former players and leaders of the team thought about that coach?

I think it would be grossly negligent for an owner not to take that into account.

And to be clear, I'm not condoning constant outbursts by a coach; but I believe that every once in a long while such a thing like what Dorsey did on camera is not harmful and can actually send a good message. But I'm not an NFL team owner or an NFL football player.

And I don't see any difference from "clearing" the table and throwing down the play iPad on the side of the field. They're both pretty much the same thing.

[MJS]

On 10/17/2022 at 8:50 PM, Buffalo716 said:

He has a long way to go before he’s a HC

 

his resume is small and he was fired as a QB coach in 18

 

he has josh Allen

 

and I do think he’s been really good but it’s wayyyy too quick to say he’s gonna be a HC soon

No, he will be a head coach after next season. Book it.

[Food_Pyramid_Wrong]

On 10/17/2022 at 10:38 PM, billsfan89 said:

Outside of that stupid option call early in the game it was a very well called game for the most part. Dorsey has stepped up well in the absence of Daboll. 

I disagree. Watch that play again. Three KC defenders were converging on Allen. Two Bills receivers were blocking downfield. If McKenzie caught the ball, he would have easily gained five yards, and potentially many more. Good call, bad execution by ONE guy.

[billsfan89]

8 minutes ago, SaratogaMike said:

I disagree. Watch that play again. Three KC defenders were converging on Allen. Two Bills receivers were blocking downfield. If McKenzie caught the ball, he would have easily gained five yards, and potentially many more. Good call, bad execution by ONE guy.

I preface this by saying I think option plays are not very effective. So this might be my bias but I think they over thought the call. It all worked out in the end but that’s the one call that in my mind sticks out as a bad one.

[Big Turk]

11 minutes ago, SaratogaMike said:

I disagree. Watch that play again. Three KC defenders were converging on Allen. Two Bills receivers were blocking downfield. If McKenzie caught the ball, he would have easily gained five yards, and potentially many more. Good call, bad execution by ONE guy.

 

It actually would be bad execution by Allen because pitching the ball to McKenzie was not one of the options for Allen on the play.  That was an improvisation by Allen ala the Houston playoff game when he was running and pitched it to Dawson Knox...who also wasn't ready for it.

 

The options for Allen on that play per what we were told was to hand it off, run with it himself or throw a pass.  There was no option to pitch it to McKenzie, he was likely there as a decoy to draw eyes and defenders away from Allen running it.

 

Allen clearly was going to run with it himself until 3 Chief defenders were about to tackle him behind the LOS when he decided to pitch it to McKenzie who wasn't looking...I guess that's a situation where you maybe tell McKenzie to always be ready for the unexpected with Allen, but I don't think blaming him is really fair.

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Big Turk

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

You don't believe an owner performing due diligence on a potential coaching hire wants to know what that coach's former players and leaders of the team thought about that coach?

I think it would be grossly negligent for an owner not to take that into account.

And to be clear, I'm not condoning constant outbursts by a coach; but I believe that every once in a long while such a thing like what Dorsey did on camera is not harmful and can actually send a good message. But I'm not an NFL team owner or an NFL football player.

And I don't see any difference from "clearing" the table and throwing down the play iPad on the side of the field. They're both pretty much the same thing.

 

I'm sure the party responsible for the hiring takes opinions of players and team leaders into account.  But my impression is that there's a fair amount of nepotism and, for want of a better phrase, "flavor of the month", involved in a lot of coaching hires vs. careful exploration of the coach's track record and due diligence.

 

Fundamentally, some owners seem to take the viewpoint they're going to hire a guy who has all the ingredients to be a successful head coach - work ethic, drive, ability to be a leader of men.  Then, they leave him alone and let him figure it out.  That's the Steelers/Chiefs model which the Pegulas appear to wish to follow with McDermott.

 

Then there's the "flavor of the month/short leash" model which teams like the Broncos and Houston appear to be following.

 

I'm certainly not someone who was splitting hairs differentiating between sideline Surface smashing vs. Dorsey's booth outburst. 

 

One thing I'm sure is that Dorsey will face a lot of scrutiny as to whether his outburst was isolated or part of a track record that might prove embarrassing.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Errrr....if Dorsey's goal is to be hired as a HC, it's the opinion of the actual owners of the teams, not their employees (players) that are the question.

 

1) I don’t think owners give a crap. I made a list of the head coaches (in an earlier post) with anger issues.

 

2) If we are judging whether something is right or not based on what a random billionaire would do, we are very lost as a society.

[DeltaDigital]

yea. He's brilliant. 6'5" 240 QB. Refuses to run a qb sneak to pickup 4 inches. 

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

No, he will be a head coach after next season. Book it.

As in after the end of the season in 15 months?

 

It’s possible.. but For the most part the NFL grind up the ladder is long

 

And Dorsey absolutely got sent back a few rungs getting fired as a QB coach … he was out of football for a year

 

If he was that sought after he would not have been out of football… Everybody is looking for a quarterback whisperer 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I get that your experience as a Pee Wee coach (you said you coach kids sports, right?) gives you perspective, but does the actual opinion of the players on the team matter to you? Or only your moral high ground?

 

I did not coach kids. I coached semi-pro soccer in the UK for 6 seasons. 

 

I get that players say they love the passion. And as a one off, sure. But I guarantee that if a coach operates that like with any regularity players will lose respect. 

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I did not coach kids. I coached semi-pro soccer in the UK for 6 seasons. 

 

I get that players say they love the passion. And as a one off, sure. But I guarantee that if a coach operates that like with any regularity players will lose respect. 

To be fair BB does 

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

To be fair BB does 

 

He doesn't lose control. I can't stress enough how different smashing an ipad is to the total meltdown Dorsey had.

[Buffalo716]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He doesn't lose control. I can't stress enough how different smashing an ipad is to the total meltdown Dorsey had.

 I’ve Seen that at every level With my own eyes from high school to college

 

It’s not that unheard of … It happened at the end of the game it’s showing passion

 

If it was the first quarter it could mean he doesn’t have control of emotions

Edited October 19, 2022 by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

They were pretty similar And I’ve Seen that at every level With my own eyes from high school to college

 

Bill Belichick absolutely has meltdowns

 

They really are not. 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They really are not. 

Dorsey’s Definitely was more And you just quoted me back in one second reread my edited post

 

And I’ve seen it at every level

Edited October 19, 2022 by Buffalo716

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, DeltaDigital said:

yea. He's brilliant. 6'5" 240 QB. Refuses to run a qb sneak to pickup 4 inches. 

 

Uh...did you not watch the game Sunday?  They ran 2 of them.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Dorsey’s Definitely was more And you just quoted me back in one second reread my edited post

 

And I’ve seen it at every level

 

I have too. I have not only seen it I have done it. But the difference was Dorsey lost control. I don't think Belichick ever loses that control. He gets angry, he throws stuff... but that was a total loss of control from Dorsey. 

 

 

[Southern_Bills]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Errrr....if Dorsey's goal is to be hired as a HC, it's the opinion of the actual owners of the teams, not their employees (players) that are the question.

 

I honestly don't think a single owner would downgrade Dorsey for what he did in that booth.

 

They want to know he can win first and foremost. He can represent a team well in press conferences etc just fine.

 

Long list of coaches who have outbursts when it's a close game with non desirable outcomes, and they kept jobs easily. 

 

The whole outburst thing is an extreme non factor in the world of NFL coaching.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have too. I have not only seen it I have done it. But the difference was Dorsey lost control. I don't think Belichick ever loses that control. He gets angry, he throws stuff... but that was a total loss of control from Dorsey. 

 

 

Yea But like with most things in life timing is important

 

sure he lost control … But he could always spinet as loving his players and having passion for the game

 

It was not a meltdown call or an official or a bills player… It was over the outcome

 

Now The players will rally around him because they do respect it … but he won’t be doing it again I assume 

 

[Chicken Boo]

On 10/17/2022 at 9:50 PM, Buffalo716 said:

He has a long way to go before he’s a HC

 

his resume is small and he was fired as a QB coach in 18

 

he has josh Allen

 

and I do think he’s been really good but it’s wayyyy too quick to say he’s gonna be a HC soon

 

The way this league is, by the end of next season his name will be amongst the hot candidates to become a HC.  

[Bronxbomber21]

On 10/17/2022 at 10:46 PM, Buffalo03 said:

I actually have an issue with some of his playcalling. I think he runs on 2nd and long too much forcing us to be in too many 3rd down situations. And the sequence of plays on that game winning drive where he ran Singletary on 2nd and 1 and got stuffed and then pitched it back to Singletary on 3rd and 1 which Singletary missed again made me wanna rip my hair out. It caused us to have a 4th and 1 at our own 35 yard line

I wonder why we just don't run the diamond QB keeper that the Eagles run

1 minute ago, Bronxbomber21 said:

I wonder why we just don't run the diamond QB keeper that the Eagles run repeatedly 

 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I did not coach kids. I coached semi-pro soccer in the UK for 6 seasons. 

 

Apologies. I must be thinking of a different poster.

 

I don’t know soccer well.

[Peter]

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Josh Allen will say it for you.

 

”Our guys fricking love seeing that. I know people might be making a big deal out of it, but as players, we freaking love seeing that.”

 

That’s the leader of the entire team saying that.

 

Your opinion is in disagreeable with the actual players on the teams. What does that say about how your opinion is actually felt within the locker room?

 

I get that your experience as a Pee Wee coach (you said you coach kids sports, right?) gives you perspective, but does the actual opinion of the players on the team matter to you? Or only your moral high ground?

 

.

 

You are 100% correct Einstein.

 

GunnerBill refers to being a "leader."

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/?app=core&module=members&controller=profile&id=23863

 

Guess who Dorsey is leading?  The very guys who (like Josh) have said:

 

”Our guys fricking love seeing that. I know people might be making a big deal out of it, but as players, we freaking love seeing that.”

Edited October 19, 2022 by Peter

[Airseven]

Offense seems fine other than the usual short yardage issues and poor run game that we’ve come to expect. The differences have been rather subtle so far, perhaps with less circus plays. 👍

[benderbender]

If Kliff Kingsbury and Nathaniel Hackett can fail forward to a HC position, there’s no reason Dorsey can’t.

[ColoradoBills]

Dorsey is just scratching the surface of the other offensive schemes and styles he can develop outside the main passing game.

It's going to take some time.  He is already showing a better run game in KC.

 

As to a HC gig next season.  Owners better realize that Ken is good, but he is not going to make Darnold or similar QBs into Allen.

Dorsey should realize that too.  He has a lot of things to work on yet in Buffalo.

 

There is a right time for everything and IMO it would be a mistake to jump to HC too early and to a bad organization.

[ganesh]

3 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

Dorsey is just scratching the surface of the other offensive schemes and styles he can develop outside the main passing game.

It's going to take some time.  He is already showing a better run game in KC.

 

As to a HC gig next season.  Owners better realize that Ken is good, but he is not going to make Darnold or similar QBs into Allen.

Dorsey should realize that too.  He has a lot of things to work on yet in Buffalo.

 

There is a right time for everything and IMO it would be a mistake to jump to HC too early and to a bad organization.

Daboll is doing alright !

[without a drought]

He'll never get a head coaching job after his little episode in the booth.

 

Teams like the Browns have standards that must be upheld.

[DeltaDigital]

20 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Uh...did you not watch the game Sunday?  They ran 2 of them.

they should run it every damn time its 2 yards or under. the man is unstoppable. brady made a living off it for 25 years. got 3rd and 1 problems? sneak. problems with short yardage solved. 

unacceptable they haven't made that an absolute staple of the offense. glad they woke up vs KC and used it, but lets hope it stays. 

[Big Turk]

16 minutes ago, DeltaDigital said:

they should run it every damn time its 2 yards or under. the man is unstoppable. brady made a living off it for 25 years. got 3rd and 1 problems? sneak. problems with short yardage solved. 

unacceptable they haven't made that an absolute staple of the offense. glad they woke up vs KC and used it, but lets hope it stays. 

 

Agreed...it seemed like ever since Allen slipped against Tennessee last year and fell short they stopped running it.  They ran it a lot prior to that.

[DeltaDigital]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Agreed...it seemed like ever since Allen slipped against Tennessee last year and fell short they stopped running it.  They ran it a lot prior to that.

right... it's why its so confounding.. sometimes plays don't work... why they throw them out "jet sweep" comes to mind, is baffling. instead, a pitch to the back outside... from shotgun? it makes no sense. run from under center and let the backs do their thing. 

 

[ArtVandalay]

On 10/17/2022 at 9:54 PM, NoSaint said:

That meltdown clip wont help him either

 

not the end of the world but plays poorly in that regard 

 

 

Dan Campbell gave a press conference talking about biting knee caps.

 

Adam Gase was high as a kite eyes rolling in his head at his press conference. 

 

Josh McDaniels committed then changed his mind after things were mid motion with position coaches being hired. 

 

If you think slamming a clipboard because your WR was a dummy and the team lost because he didn't get OB is gong to cost him a job you're out to lunch. 

[Kwai San]

On 10/17/2022 at 10:40 PM, Solomon Grundy said:

No different than Belichick, Saban temper tantrums

 

They were both already well ensconced Head Coaches.....no?

[ColoradoBills]

22 hours ago, ganesh said:

Daboll is doing alright !

 

Daboll has a lot more experience in coaching and the responsibility of a coordinator than Dorsey does.

Dorsey has 6 games worth of OC.  Daboll had 120+.