Turning Point: Breaking down the Poyer endzone INT

[Einstein]

This was such an elite play by All Pro Po.

 

The ground he covered in less time than it took the football to travel through the air… just incredible.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

Excellent play by Poyer and a really bad decision by the Ravens to go for it. The Seahawks did the same thing last night with the same result. Not sure when coaches became such riverboat gamblers but I’d kick the field goal in both situations. 

[Long Suffering Fan]

12 minutes ago, Einstein said:

This was such an elite play by All Pro Po.

 

Awesome play.  Thanks for posting.

 

In 2019 and 2020, I used to say that Po is good, but Micah is great.  I really feel like Po has taken a leap forward the last two years and now I wonder if he is better than Micah (it would be great to have them both, of course).  Po was very public about the negative influence alcohol had gained in his life right about that time.  Good on him for recognizing it, doing something about it, and being willing to talk about it.  I wonder if that had anything to do with his improvement.  If it didn't then maybe it was the coaching.  Either way, I'm a big Po fan - so much so that I am thinking about getting his jersey.

 

(Of course, this is assuming that I am right that he has gotten better and hasn't just been this good all along.)

[Big Turk]

37 minutes ago, Einstein said:

This was such an elite play by All Pro Po.

 

The ground he covered in less time than it took the football to travel through the air… just incredible.

 

 

 

As Tremaine Edmunds said on mic'd up on the sideline after the paly: "That's why they call you All Pro Po!"

 

[Big Turk]

35 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Excellent play by Poyer and a really bad decision by the Ravens to go for it. The Seahawks did the same thing last night with the same result. Not sure when coaches became such riverboat gamblers but I’d kick the field goal in both situations. 

 

I can't really kill them for going for it for several reasons:

 

1) The Bills have been excellent at preventing teams from reaching the redzone but not great once they get there.  They allowed 8 RZ possessions by teams prior to that and 7 of them turned into TDs.  Granted, 2 of them started at the Bills 7 and 4 yard lines thanks to turnovers.

 

2) Allen was "hotted up" as they'd say in England.  Since the last drive of the first half where they scored a TD they had 4 drives of over 50 yards and scored on all of them.  The only possession where they didn't score was the first Poyer INT.  Basically there was a good chance the Bills were going to march down the field and score a TD(which is what would have happened if they needed it).

 

3) Lamar Jackson had never had a RZ turnover in the regular season.  Harbaugh basically figured they would score a TD or the Bills get the ball on their 2 yard line.  He never considered Jackson would throw an INT and the Bills would have it on their 20 and out of danger.

 

4) You have an MVP caliber player at QB, if you aren't going to trust him to get 2 yards, what message does that send to your team?

 

[Beck Water]

24 minutes ago, Long Suffering Fan said:

In 2019 and 2020, I used to say that Po is good, but Micah is great.  I really feel like Po has taken a leap forward the last two years and now I wonder if he is better than Micah (it would be great to have them both, of course).  Po was very public about the negative influence alcohol had gained in his life right about that time.  Good on him for recognizing it, doing something about it, and being willing to talk about it.  I wonder if that had anything to do with his improvement.

 

Micah Hyde was asked about this and said something to the effect of "well Durrr".

 

Makes me wonder how many of these guys are being held back by battling personal demons/addictions

 

42 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Excellent play by Poyer and a really bad decision by the Ravens to go for it. The Seahawks did the same thing last night with the same result. Not sure when coaches became such riverboat gamblers but I’d kick the field goal in both situations. 

 

Bills got burnt in Tenn when we went for it instead of kicking a FG to tie - which I thought at the time was a statement of "No Confidence" in our defense.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

2) Allen was "hotted up" as they'd say in England.  Since the last drive of the first half where they scored a TD they had 4 drives of over 50 yards and scored on all of them.  The only possession where they didn't score was the first Poyer INT.

 

Right, but look at where that was: the preceding Bills drive.  The Ravens D had just stopped the Bills and sent them 3 and out on their last possession, which started on the Baltimore 50 and ended on the Buffalo 39.  1 yd run, incomplete pass, 3rd down sack.

 

 

[Big Turk]

15 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Right, but look at where that was: the preceding Bills drive.  The Ravens D had just stopped the Bills and sent them 3 and out on their last possession, which started on the Baltimore 50 and ended on the Buffalo 39.  1 yd run, incomplete pass, 3rd down sack.

 

 

 

Yup, it was a bad drive.  It happens.  Baltimore had 2 good drives the entire game. The 2nd TD drive and the last one they threw an INT on. The other ones averaged basically 3 yards per play and didn't gain more than 38 yards.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Big Turk

[RochesterLifer]

I don't agree that it was a bad decision to go for 7. Baltimore has a former MVP, perennial Pro Bowl, veteran at QB who may be the most elusive individual in the league. If the situation were reversed (I supported our decision to go for it in Tennessee), I would be upset and the naysayers on this board would crucify McDermott.

 

This was ALL on Lamar Jackson. He was late (you expect better from a Pro Bowl veteran) finding the receiver. Worse, as the video shows, he threw the ball to the field side of his receiver. If he places that ball on the sideline side of his receiver, it's a touchdown. Rookie ball placement.

 

Regarding Poyer, fantastic play. I would love to have that explosive quickness, just one day in my life.

[DCofNC]

6 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

I don't agree that it was a bad decision to go for 7. Baltimore has a former MVP, perennial Pro Bowl, veteran at QB who may be the most elusive individual in the league. If the situation were reversed (I supported our decision to go for it in Tennessee), I would be upset and the naysayers on this board would crucify McDermott.

 

This was ALL on Lamar Jackson. He was late (you expect better from a Pro Bowl veteran) finding the receiver. Worse, as the video shows, he threw the ball to the field side of his receiver. If he places that ball on the sideline side of his receiver, it's a touchdown. Rookie ball placement.

 

Regarding Poyer, fantastic play. I would love to have that explosive quickness, just one day in my life.

While I 100% agree, Lamar made a bad play, the difference between this year and the Bills of the last few years, there was a pass rush that delayed Jackson.   The DL got to him and moved him off his spot, got in his sight lines, that made the ball come out late.  I don’t think he saw PO at all, again because he was having to scramble, and threw a pass a little too flippantly to a spot where he didn’t expect any contention for it.

 

Great recovery by Po.  Good rush from the DL.

 

Pretty poor decision by Jackson.

[TheBrownBear]

10 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

I don't agree that it was a bad decision to go for 7. Baltimore has a former MVP, perennial Pro Bowl, veteran at QB who may be the most elusive individual in the league. If the situation were reversed (I supported our decision to go for it in Tennessee), I would be upset and the naysayers on this board would crucify McDermott.

 

This was ALL on Lamar Jackson. He was late (you expect better from a Pro Bowl veteran) finding the receiver. Worse, as the video shows, he threw the ball to the field side of his receiver. If he places that ball on the sideline side of his receiver, it's a touchdown. Rookie ball placement.

 

Regarding Poyer, fantastic play. I would love to have that explosive quickness, just one day in my life.

100% agree.  Just like I wouldn't put the heat on Hackett for last night.  If you have an MVP or HOF caliber quarterback and you need a yard or two, then you put the ball in their hands and ask them to make a play, you don't turn around and hand it to a RB (sorry, Sherman, you are wrong here).  That's why you pay them $200+ million dollars.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Excellent play by Poyer and a really bad decision by the Ravens to go for it. The Seahawks did the same thing last night with the same result. Not sure when coaches became such riverboat gamblers but I’d kick the field goal in both situations. 

Seahawks? I only saw horse related mascots

Edited October 7, 2022 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Excellent play by Poyer and a really bad decision by the Ravens to go for it. The Seahawks did the same thing last night with the same result. Not sure when coaches became such riverboat gamblers but I’d kick the field goal in both situations. 

 

It was the right call IMO.  If the Bills are facing the Chiefs in that situation, I am not trusting a field goal to get the job done.

[pocoboy]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

This was such an elite play by All Pro Po.

 

The ground he covered in less time than it took the football to travel through the air… just incredible.

 

 

Hate to take something away from this play, but pretty sure that's his man. He's biting down assuming Lamar's gonna try to hit his fav quick target Andrews.

 

Of course if Duvernay's not open, Lamar doesn't throw it there & maybe tosses the incompletion out of the end zone to cut the losses. In theory, it would be interesting to know if Lamar had considered any of the secondary or tertiary effects of chancing an INT and giving up 18 yards of field position vs. accepting the failed 4th incompletion knowing the Bills would have to work off the goal line.

[SoCal Deek]

37 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

It was the right call IMO.  If the Bills are facing the Chiefs in that situation, I am not trusting a field goal to get the job done.

If the field goal gets you the lead…I take the points. 

[Scott7975]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

If the field goal gets you the lead…I take the points. 

 

 Look at what actually happened.  The bills stormed down the field and easily could have gotten a TD there but didnt because they ran the clock and kicked the game winner instead.  A FG does nothing for Baltimore.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Scott7975

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

 

 Look at what actually happened.  The bills stormed down the field and easily could have gotten a TD there but didnt because they ran the clock and kicked the game winner instead.  A FG does nothing for Baltimore.

Well you can assume the Bills could have ‘easily’ scored a touchdown but we all know that neither the Ravens nor the Seahawks actually did. (And neither did the Bills just last year against the Titans.)

I still kick the field goal….but that’s just me.

[mikemac2001]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

Well you can assume the Bills could have ‘easily’ scored a touchdown but we all know that neither the Ravens nor the Seahawks actually did. (And neither did the Bills just last year against the Titans.)

I still kick the field goal….but that’s just me.

I kind of agree and say defense just make one play and we win

[Scott7975]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Well you can assume the Bills could have ‘easily’ scored a touchdown but we all know that neither the Ravens nor the Seahawks actually did. (And neither did the Bills just last year against the Titans.)

I still kick the field goal….but that’s just me.

 

Allen had first and goal from the half yard line.  He didnt even need to go down.  They would have had it.  That may still be an assumption but its a reasonable one.  Against like The Colts or Denver, yeah I might kick the FG.  Against the Bills or the Chiefs?  Im not playing to lose there.

[ticketssince61]

2 hours ago, RochesterLifer said:

I don't agree that it was a bad decision to go for 7. Baltimore has a former MVP, perennial Pro Bowl, veteran at QB who may be the most elusive individual in the league. If the situation were reversed (I supported our decision to go for it in Tennessee), I would be upset and the naysayers on this board would crucify McDermott.

 

This was ALL on Lamar Jackson. He was late (you expect better from a Pro Bowl veteran) finding the receiver. Worse, as the video shows, he threw the ball to the field side of his receiver. If he places that ball on the sideline side of his receiver, it's a touchdown. Rookie ball placement.

 

 

 

Shaq Lawson and partially Rousseau do not get enough credit for the play

 

Their pass rush prevented Lamar from being able to spot the open receiver and made him throw the ball while falling back which took the zip off the pass

 

 

[1ManRaid]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

This was such an elite play by All Pro Po.

 

The ground he covered in less time than it took the football to travel through the air… just incredible.

 

 

 

A positive thread?  Who are you and what did you to with Einstein?

 

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

I can't really kill them for going for it for several reasons:

 

1) The Bills have been excellent at preventing teams from reaching the redzone but not great once they get there.  They allowed 8 RZ possessions by teams prior to that and 7 of them turned into TDs.  Granted, 2 of them started at the Bills 7 and 4 yard lines thanks to turnovers.

 

2) Allen was "hotted up" as they'd say in England.  Since the last drive of the first half where they scored a TD they had 4 drives of over 50 yards and scored on all of them.  The only possession where they didn't score was the first Poyer INT.  Basically there was a good chance the Bills were going to march down the field and score a TD(which is what would have happened if they needed it).

 

3) Lamar Jackson had never had a RZ turnover in the regular season.  Harbaugh basically figured they would score a TD or the Bills get the ball on their 2 yard line.  He never considered Jackson would throw an INT and the Bills would have it on their 20 and out of danger.

 

4) You have an MVP caliber player at QB, if you aren't going to trust him to get 2 yards, what message does that send to your team?

 

 

Sadly the seemingly vast majority of people online won't understand the analytics and base football knowledge that went into the objectively correct choice to go for it there.  All anyone cares about is box scores and stats without context.  I can't imagine how many people in the YouTube comments think I'm a Ravens fan this past week, with my defense of Harb.

[Ralonzo]

I'm just glad Poyer realized he was covering nobody before Lamar did.

[SoCal Deek]

28 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

Sadly the seemingly vast majority of people online won't understand the analytics and base football knowledge that went into the objectively correct choice to go for it there.  All anyone cares about is box scores and stats without context.  I can't imagine how many people in the YouTube comments think I'm a Ravens fan this past week, with my defense of Harb.

Okie Dokie….if you say so. I still kick the field goal. 

[Jauronimo]

I readily admit that I know very little about coverages but did Poyer let his man sit wide open in the endzone and then have to make a heroic effort to redeem himself?  Everyone else besides the linebackers has a man.

[RoyBatty is alive]

18 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I readily admit that I know very little about coverages but did Poyer let his man sit wide open in the endzone and then have to make a heroic effort to redeem himself?  Everyone else besides the linebackers has a man.

Yes, he was beat bad and got bailed out because Lamar was back pedaling and stressed under the rush.  A lot of assumptions on my part but unless I knew what the exact defensive call , there is no way to know for certain.  As one of the safeties. how he let one totally uncovered I assume has to be his fault or at least partially.

Edited October 7, 2022 by RoyBatty is alive

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Yes, he was beat bad and got bailed out because lamar was back pedaling and stressed under the rush

He doesn't look like a guy who was beat and then tried to recover which is why I ask?  Even after he loses sight of Duvernay he is still watching Lamar. 

 

Was Poyer supposed to hand off coverage to Dane Jackson who instead went to Andrews? Taron also went to Andrews then saw Dane and moved to cover the flat which is why I think Jackson might have taken the wrong man.  

[Einstein]

14 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Yes, he was beat bad and got bailed out because Lamar was back pedaling and stressed under the rush.

 

We’re the Bills playing man?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

The play sums up NFL so well. The teams are so closely matched. At the outset of the play the defense got burnt letting a wide open guy get to the corner of the endzone. Then not one but two Bills pass rushers put pressure on Jackson. Then Poyer makes an all-Pro play by recognizing the blown coverage and getting there in time for the INT. 

Everyone mocks Jauron for saying it, but it takes a lot of things to go right to win in the NFL. Having a potential league MVP at QB covers up for some stuff but not everything.  

[RoyBatty is alive]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

We’re the Bills playing man?

does it matter, he was still responsible for the left hand of the end zone,  someone else probably Jackson lost coverage.   there is no one anywhere near, as Poyer said he was wide ass open, 

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

does it matter, he was still responsible for the left hand of the end zone,  someone else probably Jackson lost coverage.   there is no one anywhere near, as Poyer said he was wide ass open, 

 

It does matter. Just because a safety has a side of the field doesn’t mean that it’s not someone else’s guy.

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

It does matter. Just because a safety has a side of the field doesn’t mean that it’s not someone else’s guy.

re read what I wrote, "someone else probably Jackson lost coverage"  meaning it was probably  someone else's guy but as safety unless this is a very unique defense, that half the field  was his responsibility.

[AuntieEm]

6 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Excellent play by Poyer and a really bad decision by the Ravens to go for it. The Seahawks did the same thing last night with the same result. Not sure when coaches became such riverboat gamblers but I’d kick the field goal in both situations. 

 

 

  I think coaches became riverboat gamblers because there are several of the top teams with elite qbs that routinely go for 4 and short because they have the advantage and they succeed more often than not.  The Ravens and Lamarr say he's an mvp candidate and an elite Franchize QB they can hardly justify coaching or playing scared when there's a chance to win the game.  Not after they blew the lead in last game as well.  Just their bad luck the Bills have the superior and well seasoned team that has the offense and defense that can rally and make up for a bad start.  

 

[Utah John]

6 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Micah Hyde was asked about this and said something to the effect of "well Durrr".

 

Makes me wonder how many of these guys are being held back by battling personal demons/addictions

 

 

Bills got burnt in Tenn when we went for it instead of kicking a FG to tie - which I thought at the time was a statement of "No Confidence" in our defense.

In that Tennessee game, the defenses were really gassed.  Winning in OT was going to come down to the coin flip.  I never blamed McD for that call.

[Utah John]

The only comparable play I can remember is Hyde's interception of Mac and cheese in the playoff game last year.  In both cases, a strong throw by the QB, or a throw to the outside shoulder of the receiver, would have prevented the great Bills plays -- at least the interceptions, and possibly not even a pass breakup.

 

Something to consider about the Ravens kicking the FG and going up by 3.  When the Bills get the ball back, they're in four down territory all the way down the field.  As it was, if the Bills didn't convert a third down somewhere along the way, they'd have had to punt or try a FG of their own, putting the ball and the initiative back on the side of the Ravens.  Of course if the Ravens had scored a TD, the Bills would have been in four down play all the way, too, but that would have been to tie and not win.

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Micah Hyde was asked about this and said something to the effect of "well Durrr".

 

Makes me wonder how many of these guys are being held back by battling personal demons/addictions

 

 

Bills got burnt in Tenn when we went for it instead of kicking a FG to tie - which I thought at the time was a statement of "No Confidence" in our defense.

 

It was a statement that we have Josh F***ing Allen and we do things differently because of it.

[Ralonzo]

12 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

It was a statement that we have Josh F***ing Allen and we do things differently because of it.

 

They also do things differently because of it.

[Beck Water]

46 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

It was a statement that we have Josh F***ing Allen and we do things differently because of it.

 

Then we have to take the L when it doesn't work out in our favor.

 

If that's how you view it, then the Ravens were making a statement that they have Lamar ***** Jackson and they do things differently, and they too need to take the L when it doesn't work out in their favor.

 

[Big Turk]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

Then we have to take the L when it doesn't work out in our favor.

 

If that's how you view it, then the Ravens were making a statement that they have Lamar ***** Jackson and they do things differently, and they too need to take the L when it doesn't work out in their favor.

 

 

I am fine with it because on balance I expect to win with Allen in those situations much more than lose and they should feel the same way with Jackson.  I have no problems with them going for it. Pretty much whenever.

[JohnNord]

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

This was such an elite play by All Pro Po.

 

The ground he covered in less time than it took the football to travel through the air… just incredible.

 

 

Not having Poyer available on Sunday is going to hurt the Bills just like it against Miami

[Buffalo716]

7 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

I readily admit that I know very little about coverages but did Poyer let his man sit wide open in the endzone and then have to make a heroic effort to redeem himself?  Everyone else besides the linebackers has a man.

I really haven’t watched the play in depth 

 

But It shouldn’t be hard to decipher the coverage based on a few keys

 

ill check it out