Goal Line Stand vs Ravens

[Bills2022]

Our D played great, but Lamar does his job and that is a TD. He just didn't see a wide open receiver.  I think the D was huge on 3rd down.  I thought Lamar was going to just run it in. 

[Bob in STL]

2 hours ago, Airseven said:

The most valuable contributor in that sequence for the Bills was Harbaugh.

wrong on so many levels. 

20 minutes ago, Bills2022 said:

Our D played great, but Lamar does his job and that is a TD. He just didn't see a wide open receiver.  I think the D was huge on 3rd down.  I thought Lamar was going to just run it in. 

He didn't see them because of the pressure.  Rousseau is a big guy.  

[Bills2022]

1 minute ago, Bob in STL said:

He didn't see them because of the pressure.  Rousseau is a big guy.  

 

I have watched it a few times.  He never looked that way.  #28 was open. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yexb3YbCLC4

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

Drops are based on QB eyes. If Jackson were to have looked Milano's side first the coverage would be a lot tighter backside. It's all about closing down passing lanes.

 

Thank you for saying this. Still photo QB analysis is my least favorite kind of analysis. By the time Lamar should have been looking to the other side of the field the pressure had already gotten to him. I don't think this was a horrible play from him, the defense covered his first read and got pressure before he moved on. Then Poyer made the instinctual play to take away the one open WR. The one thing you can criticize Lamar for is throwing a wobbler off his back foot in the red zone because an interception there is the worst possible outcome.

[fan_in_tx]

3 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

Great sequence here.  A little bit of everything... pass underneath, made tackle. Huge run stuff blowing up the RB for a loss. Jackson runs tackled short. Jackson scrambles and throws intercepted. 

 

Defense literally covered everything in those 4 downs.

 

Check out Bryant (93) on the 2nd down run.. slips block and pushes back second blocker / tackles him freeing up Milano!   Just awesome!

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, HoofHearted said:

 

Then this is a conversation no longer worth having. Everyone is more worried about being right on here than learning something I guess.

 

I dont think you get my meaning.  I know enough about football that I care to know.  I've played football and I have been watching football for 40 years.  I dont need to know every intricate detail about every facet of football to watch and enjoy the game.  I especially dont need to know what exactly is his reads are... hint unless you are him or greg roman you dont know either... to know a receiver is wide open, he didnt get him the ball or even look at him, and he doesnt read more than half the field almost ever.  Also that he locked on his target until he threw a flutter ball to Poyer.

 

I dont need to know everything about football to know what I see.  Im not a coach.  Im not an NFL player.  I know too many other things that are relevant to my life to have room to know stupid ***** that doesnt matter one iota to me.  If you want to be a football coach then go ahead and be all high and mighty that you think you know what you know and go apply.  Otherwise STFU with your epeen about it.  You're on a fan message board not a job interview.  People dont need to learn anything more than the basics.  I dont give two ***** what that play is called.  I dont give two ***** what exact routes those receivers were supposed to run.  I dont give two ***** about what his progressions are.  

 

He didnt even go through any progressions.  If he had then he would have found the open man and got him the ball.  You have said nothing to dispute that with all your football wisdom.

 

With that, I am done with this conversation with you.  Your knowledge about football is only impressive if you have a job in the field.  I have knowledge of industrial maintenance, plcs, electricity, machine repair, automated paint control, pumps, pneumatics, hydralics, automotive repair in all aspects because I was a master technician before switching fields, plumbing, HVAC, CNC repair, CNC coding, C++, Python, javascript, html, css, swift, swiftui, uikit, etc, etc, etc no room for mastering everything football.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

31 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Thank you for saying this. Still photo QB analysis is my least favorite kind of analysis. By the time Lamar should have been looking to the other side of the field the pressure had already gotten to him. I don't think this was a horrible play from him, the defense covered his first read and got pressure before he moved on. Then Poyer made the instinctual play to take away the one open WR. The one thing you can criticize Lamar for is throwing a wobbler off his back foot in the red zone because an interception there is the worst possible outcome.

 

Wrong.  It was 2.5 seconds before the pressure got to the point Lamar started to move.  Thats plenty of time for an NFL QB to scan the field. Never even looked because he is a half field QB.

[HappyDays]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

 

Wrong.  It was 2.5 seconds before the pressure got to the point Lamar started to move.  Thats plenty of time for an NFL QB to scan the field. Never even looked because he is a half field QB.

 

I do think he lingered on Andrews a tick too long, and in the NFL a tick is an eternity. Personally if I were a Ravens fan I would be more frustrated at the OL for allowing quick pressure without a blitzer. 

[Billsfan1972]

4 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

Great sequence here.  A little bit of everything... pass underneath, made tackle. Huge run stuff blowing up the RB for a loss. Jackson runs tackled short. Jackson scrambles and throws intercepted. 

 

Defense literally covered everything in those 4 downs.

 

Haven't read all the responses yet but he had a wide-open receiver on third down right in front of him check .23 in.  That's a pass the Mahomes makes.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[TH3]

3 hours ago, Airseven said:

The most valuable contributor in that sequence for the Bills was Harbaugh.

Another post in the vein of "Bills suck"? 

2 hours ago, bmur66 said:

Awesome ain't it? Bills came up big.

93 played great the whole game

[GoBills808]

20 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I dont think you get my meaning.  I know enough about football that I care to know.  I've played football and I have been watching football for 40 years.  I dont need to know every intricate detail about every facet of football to watch and enjoy the game.  I especially dont need to know what exactly is his reads are... hint unless you are him or greg roman you dont know either... to know a receiver is wide open, he didnt get him the ball or even look at him, and he doesnt read more than half the field almost ever.  Also that he locked on his target until he threw a flutter ball to Poyer.

 

I dont need to know everything about football to know what I see.  Im not a coach.  Im not an NFL player.  I know too many other things that are relevant to my life to have room to know stupid ***** that doesnt matter one iota to me.  If you want to be a football coach then go ahead and be all high and mighty that you think you know what you know and go apply.  Otherwise STFU with your epeen about it.  You're on a fan message board not a job interview.  People dont need to learn anything more than the basics.  I dont give two ***** what that play is called.  I dont give two ***** what exact routes those receivers were supposed to run.  I dont give two ***** about what his progressions are.  

 

He didnt even go through any progressions.  If he had then he would have found the open man and got him the ball.  You have said nothing to dispute that with all your football wisdom.

 

With that, I am done with this conversation with you.  Your knowledge about football is only impressive if you have a job in the field.  I have knowledge of industrial maintenance, plcs, electricity, machine repair, automated paint control, pumps, pneumatics, hydralics, automotive repair in all aspects because I was a master technician before switching fields, plumbing, HVAC, CNC repair, CNC coding, C++, Python, javascript, html, css, swift, swiftui, uikit, etc, etc, etc no room for mastering everything football.

He is a football coach, that's his profession I'm pretty sure

[Scott7975]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

He is a football coach, that's his profession I'm pretty sure

 

Well good for him then.  I'm not and dont care to be

Edited October 4, 2022 by Scott7975

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

4th down…He looks at his one read..then looks down at the linemen…no where to run, it is too late and starts to backpedal and under throws receiver.  

[Scott7975]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I do think he lingered on Andrews a tick too long, and in the NFL a tick is an eternity. Personally if I were a Ravens fan I would be more frustrated at the OL for allowing quick pressure without a blitzer. 

 

At one point this season Josh avg time to throw on the season was 2.3x seconds.  He had 2.5 seconds there before he had to move.  He also had two gaping holes on the left side of the pocket that he could have gone through but he didnt look.  

 

I mean I dont really care.  Its not my QB and Im thankful for that.  He is a star athlete but not a star QB.  

Edited October 4, 2022 by Scott7975

[Bob in STL]

14 minutes ago, Bills2022 said:

 

I have watched it a few times.  He never looked that way.  #28 was open. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yexb3YbCLC4

He glanced that way and 28 was still behind the LOS, he quickly look that way again and saw Lawson breaking free (Lawson was held but contained Lamar in the pocket at least), plus the Bills linebacker was there near 28. 

 

It looks easy on Youtube and you can imagine it is much harder on field level.  Lamar got the ball out late because of pressure.  Poyer read Lamar and made the play.  Like Allen missing McKenzie in Miami, no one makes every play.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Disagree.  If you believe in the analytics or not, you assess what has happened to that point in the game and make a decision off that... I'd go for that as well. 

 

I could list out all the reasons as to why you go for it, but it was the INT that really caused the decision to backfire.  Pinning a team at their 2, in pouring rain is usually not a bad decision. 

 

I'm convinced Josh drives us for a TD, if they kick that FG.

well it was first and goal inside the 2, of hope that could’ve been a TD if needed

[Billsfan1972]

Maybe a bad call on second down, but a great play by Milano, but missed open receivers on third and fourth down.  See .23 seconds on third and wide open receiver receiver right in front of him.

[eball]

4 hours ago, SWATeam said:

That 3rd down run I thought for sure he was going to get in.  

 

Until that bust 1st round LB swallowed him up.

 

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, fan_in_tx said:

Check out Bryant (93) on the 2nd down run.. slips block and pushes back second blocker / tackles him freeing up Milano!   Just awesome!

 

Yeah Bryant made that play initially by taking on 3 blockers, then Edmunds freed up Milano to make the play by taking on the lead block and blowing him up.

[HoofHearted]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I dont think you get my meaning.  I know enough about football that I care to know.  I've played football and I have been watching football for 40 years.  I dont need to know every intricate detail about every facet of football to watch and enjoy the game.  I especially dont need to know what exactly is his reads are... hint unless you are him or greg roman you dont know either... to know a receiver is wide open, he didnt get him the ball or even look at him, and he doesnt read more than half the field almost ever.  Also that he locked on his target until he threw a flutter ball to Poyer.

 

I dont need to know everything about football to know what I see.  Im not a coach.  Im not an NFL player.  I know too many other things that are relevant to my life to have room to know stupid ***** that doesnt matter one iota to me.  If you want to be a football coach then go ahead and be all high and mighty that you think you know what you know and go apply.  Otherwise STFU with your epeen about it.  You're on a fan message board not a job interview.  People dont need to learn anything more than the basics.  I dont give two ***** what that play is called.  I dont give two ***** what exact routes those receivers were supposed to run.  I dont give two ***** about what his progressions are.  

 

He didnt even go through any progressions.  If he had then he would have found the open man and got him the ball.  You have said nothing to dispute that with all your football wisdom.

 

With that, I am done with this conversation with you.  Your knowledge about football is only impressive if you have a job in the field.  I have knowledge of industrial maintenance, plcs, electricity, machine repair, automated paint control, pumps, pneumatics, hydralics, automotive repair in all aspects because I was a master technician before switching fields, plumbing, HVAC, CNC repair, CNC coding, C++, Python, javascript, html, css, swift, swiftui, uikit, etc, etc, etc no room for mastering everything football.

 

1) He didn't lock on to a target - you must have missed me explaining that on this reply:

2) See above where I talk about him looking (with screenshot proof) to the two receiver side.

3) I guess you'll be impressed to know that I do work in the field.

 

I thought this was a football message board - you know - where you talk football. Didn't realize only novice football fans were allowed to post here. That's on me. My bad.

 

[Scott7975]

12 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

1) He didn't lock on to a target - you must have missed me explaining that on this reply:

2) See above where I talk about him looking (with screenshot proof) to the two receiver side.

3) I guess you'll be impressed to know that I do work in the field.

 

I thought this was a football message board - you know - where you talk football. Didn't realize only novice football fans were allowed to post here. That's on me. My bad.

 

 

First let me say that I didnt say you couldn't post here or anything of the sort.  What I said was I dont need or want an education from you.  I dont need a masterclass in football. You further pushed the issue as if I was some moron.  Im not a moron. K?  Im very educated.  I probably have more education then a lot of people on this forum because I have worked in multiple trades and I constantly have to retrain or seek new training as technology grows which is every year of my working life for the last 34 years.

 

Im glad you know football really well.  Good for you that you are a coach.  I mean that seriously.  If that is what you wanted to do with your life then you are right where you belong. As someone not in that field, I simply don't care to know the ins and outs of everything football related.  I have eye balls and common sense and enough game knowledge through both play and watching football for 40 years.  While I appreciate that maybe you wanted to teach me something, when I say I dont care then that means I dont care.  That doesnt mean give me a one liner like Im a moron.

 

If he looked to that side then he really sucks because his guy was as open as it gets in the end zone when you are on the 5 yardline.  Do you dispute that he was open or nah?  Do you dispute that maybe sometimes your read should change based on presnap and post snap or nah?  

Edited October 5, 2022 by Scott7975

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

They hold was so blatant on 4th down. 

[WyoAZBillfan]

6 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

The holding on Miller on the last play was absurd not to be called.  How much more obvious could it be with a ref right by them.

Looked to be a mugging on both ends, those white gloves stood out massively full of jersey. 

[Protocal69]

6 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

The holding on Miller on the last play was absurd not to be called.  How much more obvious could it be with a ref right by them.

That was Shaq being held. Miller wasnt even on the field because he kept blowing contain on Lamar  during the game. Funny its not even being talk about Von was basically benched on the biggest defensive play of the game

[HoofHearted]

4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

First let me say that I didnt say you couldn't post here or anything of the sort.  What I said was I dont need or want an education from you.  I dont need a masterclass in football. You further pushed the issue as if I was some moron.  Im not a moron. K?  Im very educated.  I probably have more education then a lot of people on this forum because I have worked in multiple trades and I constantly have to retrain or seek new training as technology grows which is every year of my working life for the last 34 years.

 

Im glad you know football really well.  Good for you that you are a coach.  I mean that seriously.  If that is what you wanted to do with your life then you are right where you belong. As someone not in that field, I simply don't care to know the ins and outs of everything football related.  I have eye balls and common sense and enough game knowledge through both play and watching football for 40 years.  While I appreciate that maybe you wanted to teach me something, when I say I dont care then that means I dont care.  That doesnt mean give me a one liner like Im a moron.

 

If he looked to that side then he really sucks because his guy was as open as it gets in the end zone when you are on the 5 yardline.  Do you dispute that he was open or nah?  Do you dispute that maybe sometimes your read should change based on presnap and post snap or nah?  

 

That's fine if you don't "want or need an education", but there are others on this board who do like to know what is actually going on. I wasn't coming at you, I was simply describing what was actually happening within the play design. To be completely honest with you, Milano probably picks that pass off to the #2 receiver if it's thrown right off the snap because of how much it would pull the coverage. Progression can change based on pre-snap looks. In this instance the Bills had 3 over 2 on that top side - there's no logical reason to change the progression. Furthermore, the whole design of the play was to throw Duvernay open on the slant thinking they'd get the rub vs man coverage. The Bills played zone and the slant wasn't there. Lamar got pressured and it turned into scramble drill where all receivers work to open grass in the direction the QB is working to (that's how Duvernay ended up going from slanting to the middle of the field to the sideline). Again, I'm explaining all of this for the people that want to know.

[Jammer8732]

First time I’ve heard an opposing qb say he couldn’t see over our D line. Those guys are huge and fast!! 

[ArtVandalay]

30 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

1) He didn't lock on to a target - you must have missed me explaining that on this reply:

2) See above where I talk about him looking (with screenshot proof) to the two receiver side.

3) I guess you'll be impressed to know that I do work in the field.

 

I thought this was a football message board - you know - where you talk football. Didn't realize only novice football fans were allowed to post here. That's on me. My bad.

 

I'm going to bite on this one... what exactly does it mean that you "work in the field"... pretty broad statement. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by ArtVandalay

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

I'm going to bite on this one... what exactly does it mean that you "work in the field"... pretty broad statement. 

I coach football for a living.

[Scott7975]

13 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

 

That's fine if you don't "want or need an education", but there are others on this board who do like to know what is actually going on. I wasn't coming at you, I was simply describing what was actually happening within the play design. To be completely honest with you, Milano probably picks that pass off to the #2 receiver if it's thrown right off the snap because of how much it would pull the coverage. Progression can change based on pre-snap looks. In this instance the Bills had 3 over 2 on that top side - there's no logical reason to change the progression. Furthermore, the whole design of the play was to throw Duvernay open on the slant thinking they'd get the rub vs man coverage. The Bills played zone and the slant wasn't there. Lamar got pressured and it turned into scramble drill where all receivers work to open grass in the direction the QB is working to (that's how Duvernay ended up going from slanting to the middle of the field to the sideline). Again, I'm explaining all of this for the people that want to know.

 

Milano might pick it off.  It doesnt get more open than that though.  Not unless a dude falls down or something. The field is too small.  Im just going to agree to disagree with you at this point.  Other QBs make that play.  I'll never change my mind on that.

[ArtVandalay]

8 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

I coach football for a living.

What level do you coach and what's your coaching position?

 

And for a living you mean this is a full time job love in your own fully through coaching?

Edited October 5, 2022 by ArtVandalay

[HoofHearted]

5 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

What level do you coach and what's your coaching position?

 

And for a living you mean this is a full time job love in your own fully through coaching?

I’ve coached everything from high school to DI. I’m currently a DC. Yes, this is my full time job.

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

I’ve coached everything from high school to DI. I’m currently a DC. Yes, this is my full time job.

Thanks for your insight. As a fan, there is so much that we don’t see because the game is so complicated. And to support your point, Baldy noted the same thing in his breakdown of the play. Still photos of plays often show guys as being way more open than they actually are.

[ArtVandalay]

43 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

I’ve coached everything from high school to DI. I’m currently a DC. Yes, this is my full time job.

Now that I've verified your credentials, how common is grabbing dongs in the pile?

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Now that I've verified your credentials, how common is grabbing dongs in the pile?

Enough that it’s not unheard of lol

[freddyjj]

7 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

There's Edwards just running into blockers again....smh - TBD

Lol. Do you mean Earl Edwards?

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by freddyjj

[buffblue]

8 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Disagree.  If you believe in the analytics or not, you assess what has happened to that point in the game and make a decision off that... I'd go for that as well. 

 

I could list out all the reasons as to why you go for it, but it was the INT that really caused the decision to backfire.  Pinning a team at their 2, in pouring rain is usually not a bad decision. 

 

I'm convinced Josh drives us for a TD, if they kick that FG.

Agree his decision making tree was sound. There's no way he could account for Jackson throwing that pick.

 

He should do the same thing next time. The only reason he's catching heat is because the Ravens lost, not because he erred in judgment

[Richard Noggin]

8 hours ago, Airseven said:

The most valuable contributor in that sequence for the Bills was Harbaugh.

Never miss an opportunity to throw a bucket of cold water on the Bills and their fans...

 

Keep grinding!

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, HoofHearted said:

I’ve coached everything from high school to DI. I’m currently a DC. Yes, this is my full time job.

Keep ‘em coming. I’m learning. 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Protocal69 said:

 Funny its not even being talk about Von was basically benched on the biggest defensive play of the game

You know, when I looked at the replay and saw that it was Shaq instead of Miller on that side, I wondered about it, too. 

 

Players have different skill sets.  Defenders are put on the field based on the offensive package on the field, down and distance, time of game, lots of factors.  In that situation, it was essential that the edge rushers contain Jackson - in fact, containing Jackson was more important than sacking him, although a sack would have been nice.  So, the question was who are the two best edge rushers who maintain edge discipline?   The answer was Lawson and Rousseau, and they did what they were supposed to do.  Jackson kept dropping because he could see that he couldn't get to the edge on either side. 

 

Why pay all that money for a guy you take off the field on the biggest play of the game?   Because in the other 16 games of the season, the quarterback will not be Lamar Jackson, so edge protection won't be as important as getting to the QB.  So, in those 16 games, Miller will be on the field.   

 

The Bills wanted Miller because he can rush the passer, not because he can set the edge.  The Bills were not going to spend the summer trying to make Miller into a premier edge-protection guy.   That would be like trading for Tyreek Hill and making him your slot receiver.  

[Rat-boy]

9 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

There's Edwards just running into blockers again....smh - TBD

LOL…you’ve been around long enough that I see what you did here.

 

I love how so many threads turn in to Tremaine-bashing. Reminds me of retroactive Flutie or RJ bashing back in the day.
 

It’s like having a glass of champagne in the morning. Adds a bit of sparkle to the day, as once quoted by a Mr. Osato, for all you Bond aficionados.