Dolphins @ Bengals - TNF Game Thread

[jkeerie]

30 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Re: Al Michael's comment, he said Tua asked coach (as he was being taken off on stretcher), what happened on the play, eg: complete or incomplete pass.

 

The comment was made in regard that Tua was not only conscious, but also had his barrings to engage in conversation with his coach.

Thank you.  I missed the entire context which makes a huge difference.

[Big Blitz]

 

 

 

[RocCityRoller]

2 hours ago, Breakout Squad said:

Waiting to hear Tua is cleared for the 2nd half 😔

depends on who the Dr. apparently is. Disgrceful, Jet level bad

[Big Blitz]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Again Buffaloes at Allen for five years…  And we instantly got spoiled

 

tua Would have been the best or second best quarterback here since Jim Kelly

 

100% unequivocally

 

His durability is the only issue…. The guy plays perfectly within a system which is all you can ask for

 

Bills fans get delusional with rivals

 

I’ve seen Hoa and Joe Burrow close that 10 times live in college and the pros… Joe Burrow’s arm is not that much stronger than Tuas… if any

 

His arm strength isnt the problem

 

 

 

Tua is a meh QB that was handed the most lethal weapon in the NFL - and its made him decent.  And Waddle might be a top 15 WR.  Teddy looked almost just like him outside the last play. 

  

 

I admire Tua the competitor.  100%.  He's just a decent QB. 

 

 

Tyreek Hill's impact on games - there is a reason the Dolphins gave all that draft capital and money.   

Edited September 30, 2022 by Big Blitz

[RocCityRoller]

3 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

 

The Singer of Joywave looking rough after a loss.....

[Franco_92]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 Again Buffalo has had Allen for five years…  And we instantly got spoiled

 

tua Would have been the best or second best quarterback here since Jim Kelly

 

100% unequivocally

 

His durability is the only issue…. The guy plays perfectly within a system which is all you can ask for

 

Bills fans get delusional with rivals

 

I’ve seen Tua and Joe Burrow close to 10 times live in college and the pros… Joe Burrow’s arm is not that much stronger than Tuas… if any… They have the same level arm Strength .. Tua has a MUCH better arm than Matt Barkley… MUCH BETTER

 

His arm strength isnt the problem

 

It’s the ability to survive 17 games

The video of him in the Ravens game where it was flipped so he looked right handed was pretty telling. His passes instantly looked way smoother and quicker. I think you're right, mostly because I think Burrow's arm isn't great either. But Tua's left-handedness makes an already soft pass look much worse than it is. I'd say both are slightly below league average in arm strength

[DrPJax]

24 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

It's not about being malicious it's about being reckless.

Neither of us really know the guy personally, so I guess it’s hard to really judge. It is Jmo , he seems like the type that would not disregard  a neurologist etc telling him it was not safe to play Tua.  He obviously has little medical knowledge , so I think he has to rely on what he is told.    
Fins  are a shady org with a shady owner , so I guess it’s possible if he felt his job was at risk if the owner sent some message down, anything is possible. One thing is for sure , people can never be completely trusted if money or their livelihood is controlled by someone else.  In this case reckless is really no different than acting maliciously.   Seriously , if it was Belicheck, I would believe anything, this guy I would believe until something is conclusively proven otherwise. Time will tell I guess. 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, Big Blitz said:

 

 

 

Tua is a meh QB that was handed the most lethal weapon in the NFL - and its made him decent.  Teddy looked almost just like him outside the last play. 

  

 

I admire Tua the competitor.  100%.  He's just a decent QB. 

 

 

Tyreek Hill's impact on games - there is a reason the Dolphins gave all that draft capital and money.   

Teddy looked dead for a drive last week 

 

I think Matt Barkley is one of the worst back up quarterbacks you could have… Teddies not that much better 

 

There’s 32 starters… Tua is not in the bottom 10 And he should be improving

 

Maybe not after getting two brain injuries in 10 days

[Nelius]

42 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Tony Gonzalez brings this post game show down

 

Got a good group otherwise 

 

Watching the Burrow post game interview and poor Joe could barely hide his cringe when Tony went into that Lamar Jackson "kung fu jiu jitsu" stuff. Everybody has a look on their face like c'mon Tony. Agreed, he's not as crisp as the rest.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

The video of him in the Ravens game where it was flipped so he looked right handed was pretty telling. His passes instantly looked way smoother and quicker. I think you're right, mostly because I think Burrow's arm isn't great either. But Tua's left-handedness makes an already soft pass look much worse than it is. I'd say both are slightly below league average in arm strength

 

2 minutes ago, arcane said:

The video of him in the Ravens game where it was flipped so he looked right handed was pretty telling. His passes instantly looked way smoother and quicker. I think you're right, mostly because I think Burrow's arm isn't great either. But Tua's left-handedness makes an already soft pass look much worse than it is. I'd say both are slightly below league average in arm strength

In terms of franchise QBs arm strength ? Yea slightly below average 

 

In terms of 110 quarterbacks in the NFL? Still above average

[newcam2012]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 Again Buffalo has had Allen for five years…  And we instantly got spoiled

 

tua Would have been the best or second best quarterback here since Jim Kelly

 

100% unequivocally

 

His durability is the only issue…. The guy plays perfectly within a system which is all you can ask for

 

Bills fans get delusional with rivals

 

I’ve seen Tua and Joe Burrow close to 10 times live in college and the pros… Joe Burrow’s arm is not that much stronger than Tuas… if any… They have the same level arm Strength .. Tua has a MUCH better arm than Matt Barkley… MUCH BETTER

 

His arm strength isnt the problem

 

It’s the ability to survive 17 games

 

Quick recap of Pre Draft Tua Weaknesses:

 

Serious hip injury could limit his career

Ability to play in his rookie season is in question

Durability

Numerous lower leg injuries

Lack of elite arm strength

Less than ideal height

Could improve anticipation

Could improve footwork

Could improve mechanics

Left-handed will cause acclimation time for receivers

Will need to improve his preparation habits

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

 

Quick recap of Pre Draft Tua Weaknesses:

 

Serious hip injury could limit his career

Ability to play in his rookie season is in question

Durability

Numerous lower leg injuries

Lack of elite arm strength

Less than ideal height

Could improve anticipation

Could improve footwork

Could improve mechanics

Left-handed will cause acclimation time for receivers

Will need to improve his preparation habits

Lack of Elite arm strength?

 

Yeah I don’t think anybody ever said he had elite arm strength 

 

Having a noodle arm and elite arm strength are completely different… He has a good arm just not elite arm strength 

 

I never said he had elite arm strength … There’s 110 quarterbacks in the NFL and only five or 10 have elite arm strength

 

There’s a massive difference between elite arm strength and a noodle arm … 

 

Barkley has a noodle arm… Tua Doesnt have elite arm strength… Like most NFL quarterbacks

 

And I’ve been scouting football players for 30 years making those scouting reports … I don’t see him Saying he has an under average arm … Just that he’s under sized and not a elite arm strength 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Buffalo716

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Lack of Elite arm strength?

 

Yeah I don’t think anybody ever said he had elite arm strength 

 

Having a noodle arm and elite arm strength are completely different… He has a good arm just not elite arm strength 

 

I never said he had elite arm strength … There’s 110 quarterbacks in the NFL and only five or 10 have elite arm strength

 

There’s a massive difference between elite arm strength and a noodle arm … 

 

Barkley has a noodle arm… Tua Doesnt have elite arm strength… Like most NFL quarterbacks

His throws always seem to have a lot of air under them…especially the outs.  Idk if that’s covered by the definition of ‘arm strength’ though 

[Ralonzo]

Flutie's arm, I realized in the season opener against the Colts, wasn't going to be good enough to win with. It was a harsh realization; I had so much hope.

 

Tua is that but more pronounced. And without the scrambling. And made of tissue.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Ralonzo

[newcam2012]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 Again Buffalo has had Allen for five years…  And we instantly got spoiled

 

tua Would have been the best or second best quarterback here since Jim Kelly

 

100% unequivocally

 

His durability is the only issue…. The guy plays perfectly within a system which is all you can ask for

 

Bills fans get delusional with rivals

 

I’ve seen Tua and Joe Burrow close to 10 times live in college and the pros… Joe Burrow’s arm is not that much stronger than Tuas… if any… They have the same level arm Strength .. Tua has a MUCH better arm than Matt Barkley… MUCH BETTER

 

His arm strength isnt the problem

 

It’s the ability to survive 17 games

No one is talking about Allen here. So stop with that non sense excuse. 

 

Tua's strengths don't outweigh his weaknesses. 

 

The guy is too small, too fragile, poses no running threat to defenses, slow to go through his progressions, throws a mediocre at best long ball, lacks elite arm strength, and often has bad mechanics like throwing off his back foot. 

 

Strengths a quick accurate system QB. Shows good leadership. 

 

I mean look who he was throwing to. Ruggs, Juedy, and Waddle. Handing the ball off the Harris and offensive lineman who are now playing in the NFL. Tua was a product of a great Alabama team with elite Wrs, Rbs, and Offensive lineman. His supporting role was unbelievable. 

 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

His throws always seem to have a lot of air under them…especially the outs.  Idk if that’s covered by the definition of ‘arm strength’ though 

Compared to Allen or Stafford ? Yea

 

Is his arm weak compared to Joe Burrow or Andy Dalton ? No

[newcam2012]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Lack of Elite arm strength?

 

Yeah I don’t think anybody ever said he had elite arm strength 

 

Having a noodle arm and elite arm strength are completely different… He has a good arm just not elite arm strength 

 

I never said he had elite arm strength … There’s 110 quarterbacks in the NFL and only five or 10 have elite arm strength

 

There’s a massive difference between elite arm strength and a noodle arm … 

 

Barkley has a noodle arm… Tua Doesnt have elite arm strength… Like most NFL quarterbacks

 

And I’ve been scouting football players for 30 years making those scouting reports … I don’t see him Saying he has an under average arm … Just that he’s under sized and not a elite arm strength 

Well I would think when you draft a QB 5th overall in an NFL draft you would want someone who has above average arm, can throw the long ball, and isn't a system QB. Kind of like Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, etc..

 

Tua looks to be a colossal mistake by the Dolphins. I'm not mad about that. 

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

No one is talking about Allen here. So stop with that non sense excuse. 

 

Tua's strengths don't outweigh his weaknesses. 

 

The guy is too small, too fragile, poses no running threat to defenses, slow to go through his progressions, throws a mediocre at best long ball, lacks elite arm strength, and often has bad mechanics like throwing off his back foot. 

 

Strengths a quick accurate system QB. Shows good leadership. 

 

I mean look who he was throwing to. Ruggs, Juedy, and Waddle. Handing the ball off the Harris and offensive lineman who are now playing in the NFL. Tua was a product of a great Alabama team with elite Wrs, Rbs, and Offensive lineman. His supporting role was unbelievable. 

 

He has more strength than the two you listed

 

And as Someone who has been coaching and scouting for 30 years I always have players backs 

 

Especially one who’s been nothing but class

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

Well I would think when you draft a QB 5th overall in an NFL draft you would want someone who has above average arm, can throw the long ball, and isn't a system QB. Kind of like Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, etc..

 

Tua looks to be a colossal mistake by the Dolphins. I'm not mad about that. 

Most quarterbacks don’t pan out… Not for lack of trying

 

Who knew Drew Brees would be Drew Brees? This tiny quarterback from Purdue

 

 

except Drew and the people that believed in him

Edited September 30, 2022 by Buffalo716

[newcam2012]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Compared to Allen or Stafford ? Yea

 

Is his arm weak compared to Joe Burrow or Andy Dalton ? No

Burrows is superior to Tua in every category. Stop with your foolish comparasions. The guy led his team to the Super Bowl despite a porous Oline. Tua has done nothing. Stop while you are ahead. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by newcam2012

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Burrows is superior to Tua in every category. Stop with your foolish comparasions. The guy led his team to the Super Bowl despite a porous Oline. The has done nothing. Stop while you are ahead. 

That has nothing to do with arm strength… Which is what I’m arguing

 

I saw tua in high school ,college and the pros close to 10 times… I’ve seen burrow in college and the pros close to 10 times

 

Their arm strength are almost identical

 

I’m comparing nothing else but the people saying he has a noodle arm… He does not have a noodle arm

Edited September 30, 2022 by Buffalo716

[newcam2012]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

He has more strength than the two you listed

 

And as Someone who has been coaching and scouting for 30 years I always have players backs 

 

Especially one who’s been nothing but class

Most quarterbacks don’t pan out… Not for lack of trying

 

Who knew Drew Brees would be Drew Brees? This tiny quarterback from Purdue

 

 

except Drew and the people that believed in him

Tua might be the classiest guy in the NFL. That doesn't equate to being a productive NFL starter. Maybe Brian Flores knew what he was doing. 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

Tua might be the classiest guy in the NFL. That doesn't equate to being a productive NFL starter. Maybe Brian Flores knew what he was doing. 

I’m arguing arm strength what are you arguing?

 

People said he has a noodle arm and I’ve been defending that his Arm strength is on par with quarterbacks like Joe Burrow

 

Not that he’s as good as Joe Burrow… But that his arm strength is strictly as strong

[Warcodered]

34 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

 

He's also got to sell that story to the rest of the players in his Lockeroom.

[newcam2012]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

That has nothing to do with arm strength… Which is what I’m arguing

 

I saw tua in high school college and the pros close to 10 times… I’ve seen burrow in college and the pros close to 10 times

 

Their arm strength are almost identical

 

I’m comparing nothing else but the people saying he has a noodle arm… He does not have a noodle arm

Ok if that makes you feel good I'll concede that. Your point proves nothing though. When you watch him play in the NFL his arm certainly doesn't seem strong. Like others have said his ball has a lot of air on it. We saw that in the Buffalo game and tonight with the interception. I don't see his arm as a strengthth in the NFL game. I'd say it looks like a weakness at this point. So go ahead and beat your drum that his arm is strong and or stronger than Burrows. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by newcam2012

[Bronxbomber21]

Bridgewater looked to have a way better deep ball to Hill . Tua would've under thrown that ball by atleast 15-20 yards.

[White Linen]

30 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Lack of Elite arm strength?

 

Yeah I don’t think anybody ever said he had elite arm strength 

 

Having a noodle arm and elite arm strength are completely different… He has a good arm just not elite arm strength 

 

I never said he had elite arm strength … There’s 110 quarterbacks in the NFL and only five or 10 have elite arm strength

 

There’s a massive difference between elite arm strength and a noodle arm … 

 

Barkley has a noodle arm… Tua Doesnt have elite arm strength… Like most NFL quarterbacks

 

And I’ve been scouting football players for 30 years making those scouting reports … I don’t see him Saying he has an under average arm … Just that he’s under sized and not a elite arm strength 

 

Of the 32 starting QB's, who's arm is Tua's stronger than?

[Buffalo716]

18 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Ok if that makes you feel good I'll concede that. Your point proves nothing though. When you watch him play in the NFL his arm certainly doesn't seem strong. Like others have said his ball has a lot of air on it. We saw that in the Buffalo game and tonight with the interception. I don't see his arm as a strengthth in the NFL game. I'd say it looks like a weakness at this point. So go ahead and beat your drum that his arm is strong and or stronger than Burrows. 

I just don’t like people throwing around baseless claims like noodle arm 

 

Noodle arm QBs hardly play in the NFL… Noodle arm quarterbacks hardly get out of college… Noodle arm QBs sit the bench like chase daniels for a decade … or thrown aside like heinicke 

 

I’m willing to give tua a little respect

12 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Of the 32 starting QB's, who's arm is Tua's stronger than?

You can’t necessarily base it on 32 starters… There’s 110 quarterbacks in the NFL

 

So worse than 55 is below average above 55 is better than average

 

And at this point he absolutely has a stronger arm then Matt Ryan and mac jones

 

Probably on par with hurts Who he had just as strong as an arm as in college

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Buffalo716

[Ralonzo]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I just don’t like people throwing around baseless claims like noodle arm 

 

Noodle arm would be an ability to push the ball down the field in an nfl game …

 

 

Noodle arm means not attacking outside the numbers more than 10 yards downfield. It means safeties closing on deep shots and intercepting. it means what we saw tonight.

[Buffalo716]

17 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Noodle arm means not attacking outside the numbers more than 10 yards downfield. It means safeties closing on deep shots and intercepting. it means what we saw tonight.

Noodle arm quarterbacks Are like Chase Daniel… Was in the league a decade and couldn’t see the field… Had everything but arm strength

 

There’s a massive difference between Tua and Chase Daniel

 

Matt Barkley has a noodle arm

Edited September 30, 2022 by Buffalo716

[newcam2012]

43 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Noodle arm means not attacking outside the numbers more than 10 yards downfield. It means safeties closing on deep shots and intercepting. it means what we saw tonight.

Exactly. He is unable to stretch the defense effectively even with Waddle and Hill. Of course they are so elite his " moon balls" will be caught here and there. It's more about the WR than it is Tua. Tua doesn't pass must peoples eye test. 

55 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It’s something missing from our offense that could really take the pressure off of Allen…and I don’t think Cook is the solution

McKenzie is pretty quick. 

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

He's also got to sell that story to the rest of the players in his Lockeroom.

 

He's a lying piece of *****. 

[Malazan]

Dolphins fans are now on a crusade to get rid of Thursday night football because it's unfair. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 minutes ago, Malazan said:

Dolphins fans are now on a crusade to get rid of Thursday night football because it's unfair. 

they don’t need to get rid of it. But why the nfl hasn’t expanded the season one extra week by giving every team two bye weeks makes no sense to me. It’s a home run for the NFL. 
 

They could make Thursday night games both safe and a better product by ensuring every team plays Thursday night off of a bye week. And also squeeze out more dollars in the extra primetime games that would be aired.

[Malazan]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

they don’t need to get rid of it. But why the nfl hasn’t expanded the season one extra week by giving every team two bye weeks makes no sense to me. It’s a home run for the NFL. 
 

They could make Thursday night games both safe and a better product by ensuring every team plays Thursday night off of a bye week. And also squeeze out more dollars in the extra primetime games that would be aired.

 

I agree. It should be 3 byes when it goes to 18 games. NFL stands to make more money by extending the season and reducing the pre-season with more breaks during the season. 1 bye every 5-7 games for all teams. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 hours ago, TBBills said:

Miami looks so bad again.

 

They didn't look good against us, they got really lucky, we should have blown them out of the water

[Nelius]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Noodle arm quarterbacks Are like Chase Daniel… Was in the league a decade and couldn’t see the field… Had everything but arm strength

 

There’s a massive difference between Tua and Chase Daniel

 

Matt Barkley has a noodle arm

 

Where does insanely quick release work into this new arm metric that's being created? I've been pretty impressed by Tua's quickness and zip, even last week after clearly being concussed. 

 

Agree he doesn't have a noodle arm. Maybe like a smaller, quick reflex slingshot arm.

[Jon in Pasadena]

4 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

True, but any team losing their No . 1 QB will disappear into obscurity.

 

That's just how it is.

 

 

Obscurity like the...

 

1972-73 Dolphins?          (lost Bob Griese, replaced by Earl Morrall)

1980-81  Raiders?           (lost Dan Pastorini, replaced by Jim Plunkett)

1987-88  Redskins?        (lost Jay Schroeder, replaced by Doug Williams)

1990-91  Giants?             (lost Phil Simms, replaced by Jeff Hostetler)😢

2001-02  Patriots?          (lost Drew Bledsoe, replaced by #!$!*#*!)

2017-18  Eagles?             (lost Carson Wentz, replaced by Nick Foles)

 

The kind of obscurity memorialized by permanently engraving your team & season into a large silver object?  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

Friday morning reflections....

 

1. The heat on Sunday cost the Bills a win. I think it also cost Miami a win. Their pass rush struggled last night and after rushing for 90 plays on Sunday in that heat turning around and going again on a Thursday night on the road looked too big of an ask. The Dolphins fans can bleat about unfairness if they like... but they were quiet about it on Sunday.

 

2. Obviously hoping that Tua is okay. It looked pretty scary. There will be all sorts of questions about whether what happened to him on Sunday is in any way related but to me these are separate incidents. It is a shame for him because he has definitely taken a step forward in year 3. I said after his rookie year Miami should bring in an OC from the Shanahan tree because I thought Tua would be more than serviceable in that offense. They ended up with a Head Coach from that tree and it has helped their Quarterback. The one concern with him is that the injuries do seem to pile up. He isn't the biggest and he isn't the most robust. 

 

3. The concern for Miami without Tua would be that I don't think McDaniel has yet got the run game going which is something of a surprise. They run well enough to open up the play action and RPO game, but I am not sure Teddy Bridgewater is going to be capable of making as many of those big chunk plays as Tua has the first 3 weeks and their passing game isn't consistent enough to dink and dunk without the run game contributing. 

 

4. For all that, things are not rosy in Bengal land either. Their offense is increasingly boom or bust. For the most part last night it was big play to Tee Higgins or punt. They need to work in more Hayden Hurst and Tyler Boyd underneath at some point and Joe Mixon is finding no holes in the run game. Thing are still not clicking there for me, despite the offensive line at least getting to average last night for the first time this season. 

 

5. Other than the offensive line the other argument I saw for a regression from the Cincinnati this season was that their corners were going to revert to the mean. They got really good play out of Chi Awuzie and Eli Apple last year that was not consistent with their careers to that point. They look more like the guys I remember so far in 2022. 

 

6. One final Bills related point.... I said in the game day thread on Sunday we made a mistake staying away from Xavien Howard. He is a good corner, a top 10 guy, but he isn't a guy I am going to fear so much I stay away from him. Obviously because of our protection struggles it is hard to say for certain if that was the gameplan last week, but to me it looked like it was. Tee Higgins is a great receiver, no doubt, be he owned Howard who is nicked up as well. I thought the Bills should have tested him more. 

[TBBills]

Tua looks like the typical garbage QB we always knew he was. Everything is right in the world again. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Aw, looks like the "best team in the NFL" isn't.

 

Maybe these cracker Miami fans can pipe down now.