2022 MVP: Mahomes wins. Allen gets 1 vote? (42 TDs, 19 TOs, 315 YPG & 63.3%% Comp %--EOY talk 54+)

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Give it up, he's not the MVP 

56 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

There are people in here declaring that the man (Allen) leading the NFL in total yards and touchdowns, and on pace to break the NFL record, who is the number one seed in the AFC and already beat Mahomes in KC is now done and out of the MVP race.

 

Hasn't looked worthy of it for two consecutive weeks. The standard is high

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Well I'm not that person, but feel free to call me out on a honest post

What are you even talking about?  You replied to my post, I didn’t call you out or even mention you.  I’ve never even heard of you until you posted at me lmao.   
 

 

[BullBuchanan]

8 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Weird you left out their toughest remaining game...

 

and also the fact that despite the final score they were tied well into the 2nd half against one of the worst teams in the NFL.

 

Nah... they aren't going undefeated 

 

Beckam is a UFA

The Titans? I missed them as a team with a winning record, but not sure they're a tougher out than the Cowboys or Giants. The Eagles are so multi-dimensional that I think people are really underrating them. Hurts may not be Peyton Manning, but he doesn't need to be. They have a solid offense 8th in rushing, 15th in passing and a very good defense #2 Passing, #13 rushing, #4 points.

They may not have the dynamic offense of the Chiefs or Bills but they deserve their record. They haven't fallen on their face the way the Bills have, and that's worth something. Allen has had 4 good games, 3 bad ones, and 1 where despite showing up well on the stat sheet, it wasn't good enough to win against a barely conscious opponent. We got lucky against Green Bay and Baltimore, but not so much against the Jets and Miami.

Allen can't keep piling up picks and poor outings if we're going to make an argument for MVP.

[BullBuchanan]

14 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

It would have, except there's basically no scenario in which that pass does get completed. It was underthrown, which is reasonable for a pass that went 70 yards, but underthrown regardless. The only prayer for that ball was a PI call.

meanwhile he appears to have other receivers open underneath that at least could have tried to make a play instead of hinging the game on trying to make a 90 yard throw or getting a penalty. This play was indicative of the kind of stubbornness Allen has been putting on display when things get tough.

Edited November 7, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[Alphadawg7]

12 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

Allen will need a bounce back game to right the ship.

 

I hope that his elbow is good to go because I would not put it past him to play injured. Having a physical ailment to go along with the mental issues is not a great combination when trying to get out of a funk.

 

His OL and OC are also letting him down.

 

Mental issues?  Really?

 

Where were all the mental issue concerns when Brady threw 4 INT in a game, or when Brees did that, Rodgers did that, Manning did that, Montana did that, etc?

 

Our offense was out of sync in the 2nd half of two games against 2 great secondaries.  Allen made a few bad decisions and some errant throws...now all of a sudden he has having "mental issues"?  And we won one of those games thanks to Allens big first half, and should have forced OT in the 2nd one at the very least had Davis not dropped a ball right off his face to end the game on what was one the greatest throws of the season by any QB...or had Bass not missed another FG.   

 

The amount of unrealistic perfection people expect out of Allen and the Bills this year right now is so crazy.  Mahomes has had more bad stretches this year than Allen...where are all the concerns over his mental issues?  

Edited November 7, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

It would have, except there's basically no scenario in which that pass does get completed. It was underthrown, which is reasonable for a pass that went 70 yards, but underthrown regardless. The only prayer for that ball was a PI call.

meanwhile he appears to have other receivers open underneath that at least could have tried to make a play instead of hinging the game on trying to make a 90 yard throw or getting a penalty. This play was indicative of the kind of stubbornness Allen has been putting on display when things get tough.

 

Ummmmm... what?

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

13 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

Yes.

 

Allen is trending down while Hurts and Mahomes are standing pat or ascending. There is time for Allen to reverse the downward trend, but it can't wait weeks, has to happen now, as in the next game.

Come on.The Chiefs barely put up 20 points in 4 quarters + overtime against a team we dropped 41 on. Lucky for them they got bailed out by the **** officiating. Meanwhile, despite all the BS Allen still hit Diggs on a sideline route that would’ve put us in position to win the game, but got called back on a mysterious holding call. 

[BullBuchanan]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Ummmmm... what?

 

Did you not see Davis slam on the brakes at the 30 yard line in order to not outrun the ball? That brought Garnder back into coverage. The ball landed at the 20 and if he wanted to hit an open receiver, it would have had to go to the 10.

Asking that is ridiculous of course, but it is what it is. He should have thrown the ball 5 seconds earlier if he didn't want to have to sling it 80 yards. Better yet, he could have thrown it underneath for a 1st down.
 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[transplantbillsfan]

18 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Did you not see Davis slam on the brakes at the 30 yard line in order to not outrun the ball? That brought Garnder back into coverage. The ball landed at the 20 and if he wanted to hit an open receiver, it would have had to go to the 10.

Asking that is ridiculous of course, but it is what it is. He should have thrown the ball 5 seconds earlier if he didn't want to have to sling it 80 yards. Better yet, he could have thrown it underneath for a 1st down.
 

 

 

#1: you claimed there was no scenario in which that ball was completed. Get your glasses on if you need them because there's no scenario what you said there is accurate:

 

#2: it was 4th and 21. Who was he throwing to underneath? I sure don't see any better options than that Davis throw.

[BullBuchanan]

18 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

#1: you claimed there was no scenario in which that ball was completed. Get your glasses on if you need them because there's no scenario what you said there is accurate:

How are you using this still shot to disprove my claim based on the full video? The ball was not completed. Just because Davis slowed up for it underneath doesn't mean dick if you have one of the best DBs in the league draped all over you. It looked close - it wasn't Gabe Davis was NEVER catching that ball in that scenario. Give him a billion tries and it never happens.

Did you watch the play?

Edited November 9, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

How are you using this still shot to disprove my claim based on the full video? The ball was not completed. Just because Davis slowed up for it underneath doesn't mean dick if you have one of the best DBs in the league draped all over you. It looked close - it wasn't Gabe Davis was NEVER catching that ball in that scenario. Give him a billion tries and it never happens.

Did you watch the play?

 

Then thats a gabe davis skill problem.  Ball went right through his basket.  Defender draped on him or not, other receivers around the league catch a ball thats in his basket.  Saying there is no way ever the ball would be completed is just idiocy on your part.

[BullBuchanan]

24 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

#2: it was 4th and 21. Who was he throwing to underneath? I sure don't see any better options than that Davis throw.

A wide open Dawson Knox with 1 man between him and a 1st down?

 

[balln]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Then thats a gabe davis skill problem.  Ball went right through his basket.  Defender draped on him or not, other receivers around the league catch a ball thats in his basket.  Saying there is no way ever the ball would be completed is just idiocy on your part.

Scott right.  Bull wrong

 

[transplantbillsfan]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

How are you using this still shot to disprove my claim based on the full video? The ball was not completed. Just because Davis slowed up for it underneath doesn't mean dick if you have one of the best DBs in the league draped all over you. It looked close - it wasn't Gabe Davis was NEVER catching that ball in that scenario. Give him a billion tries and it never happens.

Did you watch the play?

 

See @Scott7975 for the response.

 

This wasn't a Josh Allen problem. It was a Gabe Davis problem. The ball was literally in his arms.

 

You're just being obstinate at this point.

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Then thats a gabe davis skill problem.  Ball went right through his basket.  Defender draped on him or not, other receivers around the league catch a ball thats in his basket.  Saying there is no way ever the ball would be completed is just idiocy on your part.

No it's not. It's unreasonable to ask your borderline #2 to ever make that play regardless of competition.

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

 

See @Scott7975 for the response.

 

This wasn't a Josh Allen problem. It was a Gabe Davis problem. The ball was literally in his arms.

 

You're just being obstinate at this point.

It's so disrespectful to the defense to suggest that. Davis had no chance on that play.

1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

See @Scott7975 for the response.

 

This wasn't a Josh Allen problem. It was a Gabe Davis problem. The ball was literally in his arms.

 

You're just being obstinate at this point.

Davis had Gardner beat, and Allen just took way too long to get him the ball to the point where he was no longer beat. This isn't even an argument. It's a fact.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

A wide open Dawson Knox with 1 man between him and a 1st down?

 

 

You're insane. Knox had at least 15 yards to the sticks with 7 defenders ahead of him when Josh could have thrown to him.

 

Do you miss the days of Trent Edwards or something?

[BullBuchanan]

This is what I saw live - here it is in video proof. Davis has three steps on Gardner at the 50. If the ball is thrown then it's complete at the 30 and davis runs in for a TD. Instead Allen holds it another two seconds and by the time it gets there Davis has to slow up to try the catch at the 20. By the time Allen threw, it needed to hit the 10-15 yard line to have a chance at completion
 

 

3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You're insane. Knox had at least 15 yards to the sticks with 7 defenders ahead of him when Josh could have thrown to him.

 

Do you miss the days of Trent Edwards or something?

7 defenders? literally no. There was 1 guy. 9 defenders were on the opposite side of the field Watch the all 22. If knox can't beat 1 guy tot he sticks, he isn't good enough to be a #1 TE worth his contract.

Edited November 9, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[transplantbillsfan]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

This is what I saw live - here it is in video proof. Davis has three steps on Gardner at the 50. If the ball is thrown then it's complete at the 30 and davis runs in for a TD. Instead Allen holds it another two seconds and by the time it gets there Davis has to slow up to try the catch at the 20. By the time Allen threw, it needed to hit the 10-15 yard line to have a chance at completion
 

 

 

What is that supposed to be a video link to exactly?

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

 

What is that supposed to be a video link to exactly?

All-22 footage that shows exactly what I described, but you clearly want to win a fight more than you want to be correct, so you do you

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

A wide open Dawson Knox with 1 man between him and a 1st down?

 

 

Is this based on an All-22 view?

 

If you have a still shot of the entire field at second 31 on the game clock so we can quibble over how many defenders could get him let's see it because after that point Knox doesn't become an option.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

All-22 footage that shows exactly what I described, but you clearly want to win a fight more than you want to be correct, so you do you

 

Thanks for posting that link and confirming how ridiculous you're being.

 

Josh rolled out to the right and sees Knox 5 or 6 yards in front of the LOS. Ya know what else he sees and is probably the reason he chooses not to throw to Knox? Not 1. Not 2. But 3 defenders right around the 1st down marker... which was 15 yards from where Knox would have caught the ball. Plus there's another defender 11 yards beyond the marker.

 

If you really thought a 1 on 4 scenario on 4th down was a better option on 4th and 21--literally an unthinkable 1st down scenario for most QBs--than the throw Josh made (which was a catchable ball that would have immediately put us in game-tying field position with the opportunity for more) then you don't know football.

Edited November 9, 2022 by transplantbillsfan

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Thanks for posting that link and confirming how ridiculous you're being.

 

Josh rolled out to the right and sees Knox 5 or 6 yards in front of the LOS. Ya know what else he sees and is probably the reason he chooses not to throw to Knox? Not 1. Not 2. But 3 defenders right around the 1st down marker... which was 15 yards from where Knox would have caught the ball. Plus there's another defender 11 yards beyond the marker.

 

If you really thought a 1 on 4 scenario on 4th down was a better option on 4th and 21--literally an unthinkable 1st down scenario for most QBs--than the throw Josh made (which was a catchable ball that would have immediately put us in game-tying field position with the opportunity for more) then you don't know football.

 

Love armchair QBs like Bull.  Somehow Knox was going to get a first down on that play yet cook at the bottom of the screen here with no one even close only got like 8 yards.  People do not understand how fast a defense swarms to the ball by the time it leaves the QBs hand.

 

[BullBuchanan]

17 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Thanks for posting that link and confirming how ridiculous you're being.

 

Josh rolled out to the right and sees Knox 5 or 6 yards in front of the LOS. Ya know what else he sees and is probably the reason he chooses not to throw to Knox? Not 1. Not 2. But 3 defenders right around the 1st down marker... which was 15 yards from where Knox would have caught the ball. Plus there's another defender 11 yards beyond the marker.

 

If you really thought a 1 on 4 scenario on 4th down was a better option on 4th and 21--literally an unthinkable 1st down scenario for most QBs--than the throw Josh made (which was a catchable ball that would have immediately put us in game-tying field position with the opportunity for more) then you don't know football.

 

13 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Love armchair QBs like Bull.  Somehow Knox was going to get a first down on that play yet cook at the bottom of the screen here with no one even close only got like 8 yards.  People do not understand how fast a defense swarms to the ball by the time it leaves the QBs hand.

 

Because Cook can't break tackles. Betting on Knox to beat one defender through speed or force isn't outlandish as a last option.

18 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Is this based on an All-22 view?

 

If you have a still shot of the entire field at second 31 on the game clock so we can quibble over how many defenders could get him let's see it because after that point Knox doesn't become an option.

Again, The right play was not to roll out to the left it was to step up int he pocket and throw the ball to Davis when he was wide open before the 50. Once that moment had passed, Davis was a dead option - as the result showed. At that point, the throw was a 0% chance to be completed unless one of the top CBs in the league in Gardner makes an unforced error - not a good idea to bet on that.

Once Allen decides to extend the play beyond what his arm can handle the only choice is to fling a hail mary and hope for a DPI or to target an underneath player and hope they can make a play to get a first. Of the underneath players, Knox was in the best position to make a play. 4 players on the defense were engaged at the line and 6 were on the Davis side of the hash, leaving one player in between Knox and a 1st. Diggs was upfield to block the only other player on Knox's side of the hash.

It wouldn't be my first choice for a decision, but Josh boxed himself in to the point where it was the only reasonable decision to make. instead he either deluded himself into thinking he could throw the ball 85 yards for a completion, or that he'd put Davis in a position to get a call thrown his way - neither of which came to pass. 
 

Edited November 9, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[transplantbillsfan]

13 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Because Cook can't break tackles. Betting on Knox to beat one defender through speed or force isn't outlandish as a last option.

Again, The right play was not to roll out to the left it was to step up int he pocket and throw the ball to Davis when he was wide open before the 50. Once that moment had passed, Davis was a dead option - as the result showed. At that point, the throw was a 0% chance to be completed unless one of the top CBs in the league in Gardner makes an unforced error - not a good idea to bet on that.

Once Allen decides to extend the play beyond what his arm can handle the only choice is to fling a hail mary and hope for a DPI or to target an underneath player and hope they can make a play to get a first. Of the underneath players, Knox was in the best position to make a play. 4 players on the defense were engaged at the line and 6 were on the Davis side of the hash, leaving one player in between Knox and a 1st. Diggs was upfield to block the only other player on Knox's side of the hash.

It wouldn't be my first choice for a decision, but Josh boxed himself in to the point where it was the only reasonable decision to make. instead he either deluded himself into thinking he could throw the ball 85 yards for a completion, or that he'd put Davis in a position to get a call thrown his way - neither of which came to pass. 
 

 

You're being ridiculous and apparently also need glasses.  Even if you extend that play all the way up until the moment Josh throws the ball to Davis there are 2 players on Knox's side of the field.  One is at the 1st down marker and 1 is 12 yards beyond the 1st down marker.  Knox is about 15 yards away from the 1st down plus another defender who was spying Josh and followed him to the other side of the field but was still only on the hash at the time he set up to throw.

 

Throwing to Knox at that point was stupid and would have been a much worse decision than the throw to Davis (which was a great throw that was very catchable) considering that it would have been a throw across the field, how short of the stix Knox was and the 2, probably 3 defenders who could have gotten to him even at that point.

 

Those are the simple facts.

 

Are you this stubborn in your everyday life?

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You're being ridiculous and apparently also need glasses.  Even if you extend that play all the way up until the moment Josh throws the ball to Davis there are 2 players on Knox's side of the field.  One is at the 1st down marker and 1 is 12 yards beyond the 1st down marker.  Knox is about 15 yards away from the 1st down plus another defender who was spying Josh and followed him to the other side of the field but was still only on the hash at the time he set up to throw.

 

Throwing to Knox at that point was stupid and would have been a much worse decision than the throw to Davis (which was a great throw that was very catchable) considering that it would have been a throw across the field, how short of the stix Knox was and the 2, probably 3 defenders who could have gotten to him even at that point.

 

Those are the simple facts.

 

Are you this stubborn in your everyday life?

I guess you missed Diggs standing in front of that player that I told you to look for. You also missed the point about Allen only being in this no-win situation because of his poor decision not to release the ball earlier.

Like I already said, you don't care about being correct, only about trying to win a fight and it shows. Everything you've said has been disproven both by what actually happened as well as video replay, but don't let that stop you from hammering on about what could have been (even if it couldn't).

Suffice it to say, you're wrong and the video speaks for itself, but I'll withdraw from the argument so that you can claim the victory you so desperately need.

[transplantbillsfan]

4 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I guess you missed Diggs standing in front of that player that I told you to look for. You also missed the point about Allen only being in this no-win situation because of his poor decision not to release the ball earlier.

Like I already said, you don't care about being correct, only about trying to win a fight and it shows. Everything you've said has been disproven both by what actually happened as well as video replay, but don't let that stop you from hammering on about what could have been (even if it couldn't).

Suffice it to say, you're wrong and the video speaks for itself, but I'll withdraw from the argument so that you can claim the victory you so desperately need.

[transplantbillsfan]

Josh is in a slump. This is pretty frustrating.

 

The good thing? We've still got 8 games and a QB who takes winning, losing, and screwing up so personally that (I'm pretty sure) he was laying on the field crying... or at least despondent... after his first INT.

 

We're in a stretch of the season Josh Allen sucks. I think based off who he is he turns it around quickly.

[Johnnycage46]

10 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Josh is in a slump. This is pretty frustrating.

 

The good thing? We've still got 8 games and a QB who takes winning, losing, and screwing up so personally that (I'm pretty sure) he was laying on the field crying... or at least despondent... after his first INT.

 

We're in a stretch of the season Josh Allen sucks. I think based off who he is he turns it around quickly.

I think this game broke his brain.  He might start pressing even more, which is not ideal.

[78thealltimegreat]

I will still lay money on that last int he thought Gabe Davis was going to cut in front of the safety and as he was starting his throw Gabe went straight 

[UKBillFan]

Can we lock this thread now, please?

[loyal2dagame]

1 hour ago, Gene1973 said:

So who is going to tell me Allen is still MVP?

Wtf..... 🙄

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just stop 

 

He's not close to MVP 

 

[Airseven]

2 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Just stop 

 

He's not close to MVP 

 

I’m sure he’ll turn it around and put up a few more huge games as schedule eases. Bills aren’t going away.

 

He’s not close to MVP right now. But the real question is: why was he anointed MVP going into season? I have to believe it’s recency bias from his brilliant playoffs. He was erratic last season too.

[Dr.Sack]

This dude is turning more into Jameis Winston than he resembles an MVP. His play is erratic and needs to be cleaned up. 

[LABILLBACKER]

25 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

Can we lock this thread now, please?

Yeah it's officially time for this thread to disappear. 

[goldenboy81]

Can always change it to Superbowl MVP

Or everybody just thinks the seasons over

 

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

So who is going to tell me Allen is still MVP?

 

No one.

 

Not a mid-season award though

[Awwufelloff]

hes not that good.

[Nuncha]

Last 10 quarters plus the OT today has taken Josh out of the MVP race.  He will have to be pretty much flawless the rest of the way to maybe be considered.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Azucho98

[CoudyBills]

He ain't him