Bills ranked dead last in YAC last season.

[nucci]

irrelevant statistic

12 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I know the Homers don’t want to see it, but there’s not a single “explosive” player on the O outside of Allen.  Diggs is a great player, but nobody worries about him burning them.  There’s nobody else on the team that can beat an average DB in a foot race.  The biggest reason I wanted a 1st rd WR was to add explosiveness to the playmaker group.  Right now, it’s not there.  
 

Knox is the best bet to add YAC, that’s not great.  Hopefully Cook brings some help in turning short throws to long gains again.  
 

As of Today the O goes as far as Allen takes it.

Pretty much every NFL team regarding the QB

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

You could put any dime a dozen RB into our offense and they'd have the same stat line. That's a function of how defenses align themselves to combat Josh Allen's right arm, not anything to do with Singletary's skill set. He's a fine NFL caliber player. But he has zero dynamic ability. That becomes more apparent as a check down option when more often than not he is stopped within a few yards of the catch point. Moss is even worse. When he catches the ball it takes him five years to turn around and start moving.

 

RB passing yardage has been a glaring gap in our passing production the past couple years, and I don't think it's talked about nearly enough. We have defenses begging us to take easy yards underneath but we haven't had a player capable of capitalizing on that. Now we've added a dynamic pass catching back with very little tread on the tires. I think Cook is the biggest addition made to the offense this offseason. If we still rank in the bottom 12 in YAC this year I'll admit I was wrong.

 

 

1. If Singletary's production can be replicated by any dime-a-dozen RB.........then I guess you are declaring that Cook should easily produce 5-5.5 ypc and plant Motor on the bench, then.   That would be fine by me but league average is only 4.2 yards per carry.

 

2. RB receiving yardage is fun for fantasy football players.................but that role was replaced in importance/usefulness in the NFL by small, quick slot receivers like Wes Welker a couple decades ago.   Because it turns out that you can get a lot more yardage just using a receiver to fill that role.    Some fans on here want to turn back the clock to the days of Thurman Thomas when he was getting matchups against 250# LB's.    Nowadays the LB's often run just as quick and fast as the RB's.   The game has changed.   

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

If Singletary's production can be replicated by any dime-a-dozen RB.........then I guess you are declaring that Cook should easily produce 5-5.5 ypc and plant Motor on the bench, then.   That would be fine by me but league average is only 4.2 yards per carry.

 

I'm not 100% confident in Cook's ability to run inside consistently, not yet anyways. My understanding is that he wasn't asked to do it that much at Georgia. Singletary I think has better contact balance. And almost certainly better pass protection ability. But I am certain that when a hole is there Cook will hit it much faster and maximize the opportunity. There were a number of times last year when Singletary was too slow to hit the hole and it closed around him. So yeah I would expect Cook to be better there but it remains to be seen. Where I am 100% confident in Cook as an upgrade is as a receiving back. It is not even a question in my mind that his YAC per reception will be better than Singletary.

 

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

RB receiving yardage is fun for fantasy football players.................but that role was replaced in importance/usefulness in the NFL by small, quick slot receivers like Wes Welker a couple decades ago.   Because it turns out that you can get a lot more yardage just using a receiver to fill that role.

 

Sure, but it's even better if you can get yards from both roles. You're the one that's been saying the Bills should have focused on upgrading the offense this year. Our RB pass game, the outside run game, and the RB screen game have been practically non-existent since Allen came to town. Breida couldn't figure out which side of the field he was supposed to be on and fans still latched on to him because he gave us any level of dynamic ability at the position. Cook gives us that ability and opens up the play book. Just by adding him the primary offense now has zero glaring weaknesses.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

13 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I know the Homers don’t want to see it, but there’s not a single “explosive” player on the O outside of Allen.  Diggs is a great player, but nobody worries about him burning them.  There’s nobody else on the team that can beat an average DB in a foot race.  The biggest reason I wanted a 1st rd WR was to add explosiveness to the playmaker group.  Right now, it’s not there.  
 

Knox is the best bet to add YAC, that’s not great.  Hopefully Cook brings some help in turning short throws to long gains again.  
 

As of Today the O goes as far as Allen takes it.

 

The best bet to add YAC is to throw the ball on shorter passes, and away from the sidelines.  We added cook and crowder for this exact purpose.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

The best bet to add YAC is to throw the ball on shorter passes, and away from the sidelines.  We added cook and crowder for this exact purpose.  

Diggs runs a lot of hitches. I swear 90% of his catches are hitches. I understand why because he’s unstoppable on a hitch, but he’s so much more than that. Before Buffalo he was one of the most explosive WRs in the league. 

[Gugny]

If Allen had only about 400 fewer passing yards than Mahomes ... and the Chiefs were the best in the NFL in YAC ... and Allen/Mahomes had 36 and 37 TD passes respectively ... what does that really say?

 

To me it says that it's more about play-calling than Allen's ball placement.

 

Just looking at KC and BUF (for the purposes of this conversation), they're two offenses that work and produce; just in different ways.

 

With Tyreek gone/in Miami, I'd expect that KC's YAC will suffer and MIA's YAC will improve.

 

My long-winded way of saying this has very little to do with Allen's ball placement and much more about offensive philosophy and the types of receivers on each team.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Diggs runs a lot of hitches. I swear 90% of his catches are hitches. I understand why because he’s unstoppable on a hitch, but he’s so much more than that. Before Buffalo he was one of the most explosive WRs in the league. 

 

Hitches/comebacks are dangerous though... depending on coverage he's basically always open.  And if you identify man/single high you can eventually roast them on the double move.  

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

If Allen had only about 400 fewer passing yards than Mahomes ... and the Chiefs were the best in the NFL in YAC ... and Allen/Mahomes had 36 and 37 TD passes respectively ... what does that really say?

 

To me it says that it's more about play-calling than Allen's ball placement.

 

Just looking at KC and BUF (for the purposes of this conversation), they're two offenses that work and produce; just in different ways.

 

With Tyreek gone/in Miami, I'd expect that KC's YAC will suffer and MIA's YAC will improve.

 

My long-winded way of saying this has very little to do with Allen's ball placement and much more about offensive philosophy and the types of receivers on each team.

 

Both teams had a TON of 2 high safety looks to counter a lot of the deep crossers that both teams excel at.  Buffalo beat this with deep threats and route running (hitches, out routes, etc.).  KC beat this with more YAC type plays - screens, short passing, and RPOs.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

If Allen had only about 400 fewer passing yards than Mahomes ... and the Chiefs were the best in the NFL in YAC ... and Allen/Mahomes had 36 and 37 TD passes respectively ... what does that really say?

 

To me it says that it's more about play-calling than Allen's ball placement.

 

Just looking at KC and BUF (for the purposes of this conversation), they're two offenses that work and produce; just in different ways.

 

With Tyreek gone/in Miami, I'd expect that KC's YAC will suffer and MIA's YAC will improve.

 

My long-winded way of saying this has very little to do with Allen's ball placement and much more about offensive philosophy and the types of receivers on each team.

Ball placement is big but timing is right up there. Allen does hold the ball a step longer than a QB like Mahomes. Makes a huge difference.

[1ManRaid]

12 hours ago, SCBills said:

It’s a valid stat to point out.  
 

Yes, Allen can get better at short pass ball placement (which he’s working on).. 
 

However, it highlights - again - how Josh Allen dependent we were. 

 

Below average run game and dead last in YAC.  That’s asking your QB to do way too much. 
 

Cook & Shakir were two YAC monsters in college so let’s hope they translate.  

 

We had an above average run game, especially down the stretch.  Finished as the 5th ranked rushing team, with Singletary under the radar getting 4.6 yards per carry on the season and a team average of 4.8 (of course Josh inflates the team average being a league topper in yards per run).  The run game really came together after the windstorm game, which apparently caused Singletary to wake up one day and become the embodiment of violence.

 

People ignore the context of WHY we were last in YAC.  We were just so good at the chunk plays that naturally get low/no YAC, like strikes to the endzone and nearly undefendable deep sideline strikes.

 

With the additions we made this offseason I expect we'll naturally do better in YAC.  No point going out of our way to sacrifice what makes us dominant when we can just blend in YAC plays as an option to mix things up.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Hitches/comebacks are dangerous though... depending on coverage he's basically always open.  And if you identify man/single high you can eventually roast them on the double move.  

 

Both teams had a TON of 2 high safety looks to counter a lot of the deep crossers that both teams excel at.  Buffalo beat this with deep threats and route running (hitches, out routes, etc.).  KC beat this with more YAC type plays - screens, short passing, and RPOs.  

It’s one of those things where if it ain’t broke why fix it right? No one can cover Diggs on a hitch. 
 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Ball placement is big but timing is right up there. Allen does hold the ball a step longer than a QB like Mahomes. Makes a huge difference.

 

Buffalo just threw the ball further down the field.  I'm sure if you looked at the % of throws behind the LOS or within 5 yards - KC has more than Buffalo.  

 

They have a more athletic and generally better offensive line than buffalo - especially on the interior.  Why wouldn't you run more screens and RPOs?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

We had an above average run game, especially down the stretch.  Finished as the 5th ranked rushing team, with Singletary under the radar getting 4.6 yards per carry on the season and a team average of 4.8 (of course Josh inflates the team average being a league topper in yards per run).  The run game really came together after the windstorm game, which apparently caused Singletary to wake up one day and become the embodiment of violence.

 

People ignore the context of WHY we were last in YAC.  We were just so good at the chunk plays that naturally get low/no YAC, like strikes to the endzone and nearly undefendable deep sideline strikes.

 

With the additions we made this offseason I expect we'll naturally do better in YAC.  No point going out of our way to sacrifice what makes us dominant when we can just blend in YAC plays as an option to mix things up.

Josh Allen gets most of his yards through the air. He’s going to always be near the top in air yard stats. Tom Brady believe it not dominated air yards last year and was # 1. How is that even possible? Not only that but look at this? How? I might start taking TB12.

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Buffalo just threw the ball further down the field.  I'm sure if you looked at the % of throws behind the LOS or within 5 yards - KC has more than Buffalo.  

 

They have a more athletic and generally better offensive line than buffalo - especially on the interior.  Why wouldn't you run more screens and RPOs?

Scheme is definitely part of the lack of YAC. But I think it’s likely a coaching to your strengths thing. Maybe next year we’ll see more of that because the projected OL can all move well.

[Shaw66]

12 hours ago, SCBills said:

It’s a valid stat to point out.  
 

Yes, Allen can get better at short pass ball placement (which he’s working on).. 
 

However, it highlights - again - how Josh Allen dependent we were. 

 

Below average run game and dead last in YAC.  That’s asking your QB to do way too much. 
 

Cook & Shakir were two YAC monsters in college so let’s hope they translate.  

Hey, SC -  This is good stuff.  I like it.   I agree it's a valid stat.   But what it's useful for is to help understand how the Bills offense works, which is what you do in this post.  

 

What I object to is the notion that there's something wrong with the team because they were last in YAC.   The problem is that people talk about a stat like that as though it correlates with winning, and therefore needs to be fixed.   That's wrong.   YAC is just one of dozens and dozens of stats.  

 

Points for and points against correlates with winning.   Giveaway-Takeaway correlates with winning.  YAC doesn't.  

 

I reminds of a few years ago, in the Taylor era, when there were these endless discussions about Tyrod not having enough completions over the middle.   Yes, a couple more completions over the middle would have been nice, but so would a variety of other statistical improvements.  

 

As I've said, more effectiveness in passing to the backs will change YAC, because those are the nearly-automatic YAC plays.   As others have said, Josh extending plays reduces the number of throws to backs.  Do we want Josh to stop extending plays so the Bills can increase YAC.   I don't think so.  

[Awwufelloff]

James Cook will change that for us this year. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Hey, SC -  This is good stuff.  I like it.   I agree it's a valid stat.   But what it's useful for is to help understand how the Bills offense works, which is what you do in this post.  

 

What I object to is the notion that there's something wrong with the team because they were last in YAC.   The problem is that people talk about a stat like that as though it correlates with winning, and therefore needs to be fixed.   That's wrong.   YAC is just one of dozens and dozens of stats.  

 

Points for and points against correlates with winning.   Giveaway-Takeaway correlates with winning.  YAC doesn't.  

 

I reminds of a few years ago, in the Taylor era, when there were these endless discussions about Tyrod not having enough completions over the middle.   Yes, a couple more completions over the middle would have been nice, but so would a variety of other statistical improvements.  

 

As I've said, more effectiveness in passing to the backs will change YAC, because those are the nearly-automatic YAC plays.   As others have said, Josh extending plays reduces the number of throws to backs.  Do we want Josh to stop extending plays so the Bills can increase YAC.   I don't think so.  

Josh isn’t your typical rhythm progression passer where he goes through reads and dumps to the RB in the flat. I think it might be fair to add a lot of Josh’s yards on the ground as YAC yards because instead of dumping it to the flat he’s extending the play or taking off running.

I think this stat is pretty meaningless honestly because of the way Josh plays the position. He’s just different. 

 

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Hey, SC -  This is good stuff.  I like it.   I agree it's a valid stat.   But what it's useful for is to help understand how the Bills offense works, which is what you do in this post.  

 

What I object to is the notion that there's something wrong with the team because they were last in YAC.   The problem is that people talk about a stat like that as though it correlates with winning, and therefore needs to be fixed.   That's wrong.   YAC is just one of dozens and dozens of stats.  

 

Points for and points against correlates with winning.   Giveaway-Takeaway correlates with winning.  YAC doesn't.  

 

I reminds of a few years ago, in the Taylor era, when there were these endless discussions about Tyrod not having enough completions over the middle.   Yes, a couple more completions over the middle would have been nice, but so would a variety of other statistical improvements.  

 

As I've said, more effectiveness in passing to the backs will change YAC, because those are the nearly-automatic YAC plays.   As others have said, Josh extending plays reduces the number of throws to backs.  Do we want Josh to stop extending plays so the Bills can increase YAC.   I don't think so.  

 

I agree with a lot of this as well.  Allen is money on those intermediate lasers.. instead of a 7 yard slant that the WR takes another 7-10 yards, Allen just throws a 15-20 yard frozen rope down the field.  That definitely accounts for some of this.  

 

The issue I have is that we forget how stuck in the mud this team could get until we started running Josh.  That needs to stop moving forward (playoffs aside).  I think our coaches understand that and will address is on two fronts.. stronger run game and stronger YAC game. Part of that is Dorsey (hopefully) scheming up some short/easy throws into space as an extension of the run game.  

 

I believe we'll see a handful more runs from Singletary/Cook/Moss per game, but I truly believe/hope the short passing game to Cook, Crowder, McKenzie, perhaps Shakir etc., will be a bigger focus to take some of the stress off Allen's legs in the regular season.  

 

Come Playoff time, if we are more well rounded, and then we can simply run Allen because we want to.. this Offense will be absurd.  

[Plano]

13 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

Call me crazy, I'm fine with zero YAC on a 40-50 air yards bomb or a 20-30 yard undefendable laser to the sideline, rather than having to depend on getting 8-10 YAC on a pass to the LoS just to rank higher in a largely meaningless metric.

 

I anticipate more YAC this year with having added a couple pass catching RBs and being a bit more slot heavy, but YAC specifically isn't really something we need to go out of our way to be desperate for.

agreed.

 

we can /thread now, nothing more needs to be said! 

[Buffalo Boy]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Josh isn’t your typical rhythm progression passer where he goes through reads and dumps to the RB in the flat. I think it might be fair to add a lot of Josh’s yards on the ground as YAC yards because instead of dumping it to the flat he’s extending the play or taking off running.

I think this stat is pretty meaningless honestly because of the way Josh plays the position. He’s just different. 

 

    Agreed.

    And, he can hit those sideline routes which are really just a function of scramble drills due to pressure. There is no design to this sort of play or potential for YAC.That’s his game and Daboll seemed comfortable letting him do it.

    He’s also never had a great running game or O line as mentioned above. Hopefully, this year he gets a chance to be comfortable in the pocket. That immediately would allow him to hit some designed plays with timing. 
    Regarding the “ If it ain’t broke” argument …… having Josh expand his repertoire into ball control and quick hitting slants and crossing routes can only help in the long run. It will also serve to keep the designed QB runs down which I hate, except on the real short yardage stuff.

 

 

[JerseyBills]

15 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I know the Homers don’t want to see it, but there’s not a single “explosive” player on the O outside of Allen.  Diggs is a great player, but nobody worries about him burning them.  There’s nobody else on the team that can beat an average DB in a foot race.  The biggest reason I wanted a 1st rd WR was to add explosiveness to the playmaker group.  Right now, it’s not there.  
 

Knox is the best bet to add YAC, that’s not great.  Hopefully Cook brings some help in turning short throws to long gains again.  
 

As of Today the O goes as far as Allen takes it.

Diggs leads the league in yardage against single coverage since 2020.

He's fast and explosive imo. But I agree about the others. Bease was definitely too banged up to get yac and seemed to avoid contact.Hopefully Crowder can help and a guy like McKenzie needs more opportunities in open space. And ya Cook should be a beast with YAC in this offense 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

The Top 4 teams listed are all West Coast offense teams which are short precision passing offense designed to get lots of YAC because that's how they move the football.

 

WC offense features lots of passes to RBs, Crossing routes, Slants, screens, etc.  It was designed for weaker armed QBs who are very accurate on the short pass.  The idea is to get rid of the ball fast.

 

Bills run a different Erhardt-Perkins system which features lots more deep passing down the field.  You need a strong armed accurate QB to play in that offense but generally not a lot of short passing unless its a checkdown.

 

EP makes the QB look deep first, if nothing there, take the short checkdown.

 

WC makes the QB look short first and if nothing there go deep for a man to man coverage.

 

So why so low YAC ?  Looking at the routes or route trees, Bills receivers ran almost exclusively tons of Dig routes.

 

That is the receiver runs down the field, turns around or starts running parallel to the LOS and Josh throws the ball right to him usually 40+ yards downfield.  By that time the CB is on top of the receiver so not a lot of YAC.  The CB has an easy tackle.

 

The question is why did Daboll call so many Dig routes ?  I suspect that its the route that Josh is most comfortable throwing.

 

But no doubt implementing crossers, slants, screen, etc. will improve YAC.

 

But its not as bad as many are making it out to be.  When your firing lasers 40+ yards down field you don't need YAC as much.

[TheBrownBear]

The Chiefs had almost +100 YAC against us in the divisional playoff game (227-135).  It's probably why despite putting up similar passing numbers, most fans came away from that game thinking Josh Allen was the better quarterback.  Mahomes got almost 2/3 of his yardage from YAC.  It would be nice if we could get more of those easy yards this year.

[Buffalo03]

16 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I know the Homers don’t want to see it, but there’s not a single “explosive” player on the O outside of Allen.  Diggs is a great player, but nobody worries about him burning them.  There’s nobody else on the team that can beat an average DB in a foot race.  The biggest reason I wanted a 1st rd WR was to add explosiveness to the playmaker group.  Right now, it’s not there.  
 

Knox is the best bet to add YAC, that’s not great.  Hopefully Cook brings some help in turning short throws to long gains again.  
 

As of Today the O goes as far as Allen takes it.

James Cook says hello

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

I agree with a lot of this as well.  Allen is money on those intermediate lasers.. instead of a 7 yard slant that the WR takes another 7-10 yards, Allen just throws a 15-20 yard frozen rope down the field.  That definitely accounts for some of this.  

 

The issue I have is that we forget how stuck in the mud this team could get until we started running Josh.  That needs to stop moving forward (playoffs aside).  I think our coaches understand that and will address is on two fronts.. stronger run game and stronger YAC game. Part of that is Dorsey (hopefully) scheming up some short/easy throws into space as an extension of the run game.  

 

I believe we'll see a handful more runs from Singletary/Cook/Moss per game, but I truly believe/hope the short passing game to Cook, Crowder, McKenzie, perhaps Shakir etc., will be a bigger focus to take some of the stress off Allen's legs in the regular season.  

 

Come Playoff time, if we are more well rounded, and then we can simply run Allen because we want to.. this Offense will be absurd.  

What you say about the stalled offense is true, although I am reminded that McDermott often says that the reality is that there are always periods in the game when things just don't work well.   Still, the stuck in the mud feeling is real and should be improved.

 

Again, however, I don't think that focus on YAC as a "solution" makes sense.   It's focus on more effective offense.   I agree, Bills need better, more effective running out of the backs, to goose the numbers a bit and reduce Josh's carries.  That's part of what's needed.   But I don't think it's reasonable to expect much more out of Crowder/McKenzie.   Yes, Crowder might be a modest upgrade over Beas, but the Bills went into last season with a well developed slot game, and I don't think we can expect a lot more there.   

 

I really think the extra element that has been missing is the screen/swing pass game.   That's what KC did, for example, with Edwards-Helaire - they goosed their offense by adding someone dangerous in a part of the field they weren't already attacking.   The Bills' downfield passing has been fine - it's the screen game and swing passes (not just outlet passes, but true swing passes where Josh's read of the defense says a quick attack on the flank is what is necessary).   Singletary and Moss simply haven't been effective in that game, and that stuff is Cook's bread and butter.  If the Bills can make Cook a threat out beyond the tackles in that way, it not only will account for more yards (yards that, incidentally, will improve YAC) - it also will occupy the attention of a DE and/or linebacker in a way that will make slants to the slot man easier and create gaps for occasional runs by the blocking back or others.   I think, for example, that's how the Chiefs generate success on those inside shovel passes to Kelce - they get a defender chasing Edwards-Helaire out of the box and send Kelce into gaps that are now easier for the line to create.   I'm not predicting, but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see some of those plays to Knox this season.  

[Logic]

One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned yet: 

Josh Allen shouldn't be completely absolved of blame for the lack of YAC in the Bills passing game.

A big part of it is scheme, yes. Another big part of it is Josh's love of throwing intermediate and deep and his hesitance -- sometimes seemingly bordering on disdain -- for checking down.

That's not all of it, though.

He also, for all the strides he's made in the accuracy department, doesn't always place the ball in such a way that his receivers are set up for YAC success. A few inches in ball location can be the difference between catching the ball and getting instantly tackled or catching the ball on the move and picking up another 10 yards. 

This isn't just me saying this, mind you. Josh himself has been saying for two offseasons in a row now that he's working on putting the ball in a place that allows his receivers gain YAC:

“I think, myself especially, making sure I’m on time, making the right reads and giving our guys good enough balls to get some more [yards after the catch]. That’s one thing I think, on offense, run after catch was wasn’t very high last year. But again, that’s me putting the ball where it needs to be and allow our guys to catch in a good position to make a run after the catch. So working on that, that’s been one of my biggest takeaways in this offseason and trying to work on just ball placement and allowing our receivers to do that.”

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

The Chiefs had almost +100 YAC against us in the divisional playoff game (227-135).  It's probably why despite putting up similar passing numbers, most fans came away from that game thinking Josh Allen was the better quarterback.  Mahomes got almost 2/3 of his yardage from YAC.  It would be nice if we could get more of those easy yards this year.

This highlights my point.  I can argue just as easily that the Bills don't need more YAC - they have to stop the opponent from getting so many.   If I did it correctly, Bills were 22 in defensive YAC.    The point is that YAC is a stat that helps see what's going on on the field, but it isn't uniquely an indicator of success.    

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, Logic said:

One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned yet: 

Josh Allen shouldn't be completely absolved of blame for the lack of YAC in the Bills passing game.

A big part of it is scheme, yes. Another big part of it is Josh's love of throwing intermediate and deep and his hesitance -- sometimes seemingly bordering on disdain -- for checking down.

That's not all of it, though.

He also, for all the strides he's made in the accuracy department, doesn't always place the ball in such a way that his receivers are set up for YAC success. A few inches in ball location can be the difference between catching the ball and getting instantly tackled or catching the ball on the move and picking up another 10 yards. 

This isn't just me saying this, mind you. Josh himself has been saying for two offseasons in a row now that he's working on putting the ball in a place that allows his receivers gain YAC:

“I think, myself especially, making sure I’m on time, making the right reads and giving our guys good enough balls to get some more [yards after the catch]. That’s one thing I think, on offense, run after catch was wasn’t very high last year. But again, that’s me putting the ball where it needs to be and allow our guys to catch in a good position to make a run after the catch. So working on that, that’s been one of my biggest takeaways in this offseason and trying to work on just ball placement and allowing our receivers to do that.”

This is absolutely correct, but Josh being late to check down is very much a double edged sword.   Yes, he comes to his checkdown man late sometimes, but that is just part of his tendency to extend plays to get the most out of each play.   I think the yards lost because he's late to checkdown likely are a fair trade for the yards gained by letting him continue to extend plays.  

 

And, yes, his accuracy can improve - I agree, because I see a lot of plays where I wish the ball had been better placed, but by NFL standards, he's already quite accurate.   Would I like him to be laser-fine like Brees or Rodgers?  Sure.  And maybe he'll improve, but I can live with his current level of accuracy. 

 

I really think the primary problem on the offense (besides the running game) has been attacking the flanks effectively.  Not check downs to the flat, but designed plays to the flat, where off the snap Josh immediately unloads it to a back who can beat the LB to the edge and take yardage in space cleared out by a slanting receiver.   That, and better quick screens to the back, plays where on the snap, the back sprints right and Spencer Brown sprints right creating a one-man screen at the point of attack. 

 

It's all about getting speed in favorable matchups, and the Bills have not been able to that in the flat in previous seasons.  

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

Diggs leads the league in yardage against single coverage since 2020.

He's fast and explosive imo. But I agree about the others. Bease was definitely too banged up to get yac and seemed to avoid contact.Hopefully Crowder can help and a guy like McKenzie needs more opportunities in open space. And ya Cook should be a beast with YAC in this offense 

Thank you for taking time to actually read what I posted and responding with a thought our response, it’s appreciated.   While I understand Diggs will get yards if you put him one on one, he’s not somebody that teams are really scared of.  He’s not going to burn you like Hill or bully you like Michale Thomas etc.  He’s containable, the Chiefs proved that, but he will get his yards and there’s not much you can do about it because he is such a crisp route runner.  You just don’t have to worry about him taking the top off a D.  
 

Crowder and McKenzie should get more YAC than Beasley who was just taking the catch and diving forward all too frequently. He did that when healthy, so I’m not going to say it was all injuries last year, he just doesn’t want to get crushed and I honestly don’t blame him, but it’s what separates the guys like Edelman from him.   If Crowder can stay healthy, he should enjoy a career year with Josh.   I hope McKenzie gets more use this year, he’s flashed quite a bit, but it seems like as soon as he’s getting rolling he’s off the field again.  I’ll be interested to see if that was Dabs or McD.  
 

Cook hasn’t played a down in the NFL and won’t get on the field if he can’t pass protect, he seems willing, but is he effective against NFL players? We’ll see.  He definitely has a chance to add a missing element to the O. 

 

37 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

James Cook says hello

See above.

[Shaw66]

39 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Thank you for taking time to actually read what I posted and responding with a thought our response, it’s appreciated.   While I understand Diggs will get yards if you put him one on one, he’s not somebody that teams are really scared of.  He’s not going to burn you like Hill or bully you like Michale Thomas etc.  He’s containable, the Chiefs proved that, but he will get his yards and there’s not much you can do about it because he is such a crisp route runner.  You just don’t have to worry about him taking the top off a D.  
 

Crowder and McKenzie should get more YAC than Beasley who was just taking the catch and diving forward all too frequently. He did that when healthy, so I’m not going to say it was all injuries last year, he just doesn’t want to get crushed and I honestly don’t blame him, but it’s what separates the guys like Edelman from him.   If Crowder can stay healthy, he should enjoy a career year with Josh.   I hope McKenzie gets more use this year, he’s flashed quite a bit, but it seems like as soon as he’s getting rolling he’s off the field again.  I’ll be interested to see if that was Dabs or McD.  
 

Cook hasn’t played a down in the NFL and won’t get on the field if he can’t pass protect, he seems willing, but is he effective against NFL players? We’ll see.  He definitely has a chance to add a missing element to the O. 

 

Not saying any of this truly wrong.  I'm really just commenting on this. 

 

Diggs scares teams big time.  Don't kid yourself.   Sure, he's not Hill, but no one else in the league is, either.   And soon we may be saying the same about the guy the Bengals have.   But Diggs gets doubled a lot, and Diggs hurts teams in the short and intermediate possession game.   He's the focus of the defense every week.  

 

I think McKenzie is limited, and we've seen what he can do.   More time on the field won't result in a lot more production.   Crowder at his best will be better than Beas, but he's certainly not scaring anyone.   Davis is the guy who could be the serious threat. 

 

And of course Cook is a rook, but he played in a sophisticated offense and likely has reasonably developed pass pro skills, to the extent a good college team needs it.   Even so, unless he shows that he just isn't quick enough or something, the Bills are going to find ways to get him on the field and get him the ball.   For example, if he can't do anything else, he probably will take snaps from McKenzie in jet sweeps and on certain pass routes.   They didn't draft the guy to be on the bench, and running back is one of those positions where rooks can see time.  

[DCofNC]

45 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Not saying any of this truly wrong.  I'm really just commenting on this. 

 

Diggs scares teams big time.  Don't kid yourself.   Sure, he's not Hill, but no one else in the league is, either.   And soon we may be saying the same about the guy the Bengals have.   But Diggs gets doubled a lot, and Diggs hurts teams in the short and intermediate possession game.   He's the focus of the defense every week.  

 

I think McKenzie is limited, and we've seen what he can do.   More time on the field won't result in a lot more production.   Crowder at his best will be better than Beas, but he's certainly not scaring anyone.   Davis is the guy who could be the serious threat. 

 

And of course Cook is a rook, but he played in a sophisticated offense and likely has reasonably developed pass pro skills, to the extent a good college team needs it.   Even so, unless he shows that he just isn't quick enough or something, the Bills are going to find ways to get him on the field and get him the ball.   For example, if he can't do anything else, he probably will take snaps from McKenzie in jet sweeps and on certain pass routes.   They didn't draft the guy to be on the bench, and running back is one of those positions where rooks can see time.  

I think we are on a similar page, I know Diggs is a focus because he will keep possessions going, he’s just not an explosive playmaker.  I think you said it well in that he’s a possession type. 
 

Mckenzie has some explosive traits, you may be right, he may just be limited in what he can do and that’s why he hasn’t gotten a lot of looks.  
 

Crowder has had some good years, in fact, statistically, he’s been far better than Beasley.  With JA’s tendency to make WRs look better than they ever have, I expect he will hit 1k this year IF he is healthy. 

 

Davis is an X-Factor.  IF he steps into the #2 roll and IF he can bring his play up to what we saw in the playoffs on a reasonably consistent basis, he could have a big year.  That said, he didn’t make any major strides over his rookie year for the entirety of the season last year, but had one big game that everyone wants to point to.  It was a great performance, hopefully an indication of what’s to come, but I’m not counting my chickens before they hatch.

 

I agree Cook will get time and maybe it’s as a hybrid out of the slot if he can’t handle the blocking assignments.  I doubt he will have any real issue, but he’s not exactly built like a tank, so it may be a problem.  Either way, completely agreed they will find a way to use him, you pretty much have to with the draft position.  

[Shaw66]

59 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I think we are on a similar page, I know Diggs is a focus because he will keep possessions going, he’s just not an explosive playmaker.  I think you said it well in that he’s a possession type. 
 

Mckenzie has some explosive traits, you may be right, he may just be limited in what he can do and that’s why he hasn’t gotten a lot of looks.  
 

Crowder has had some good years, in fact, statistically, he’s been far better than Beasley.  With JA’s tendency to make WRs look better than they ever have, I expect he will hit 1k this year IF he is healthy. 

 

Davis is an X-Factor.  IF he steps into the #2 roll and IF he can bring his play up to what we saw in the playoffs on a reasonably consistent basis, he could have a big year.  That said, he didn’t make any major strides over his rookie year for the entirety of the season last year, but had one big game that everyone wants to point to.  It was a great performance, hopefully an indication of what’s to come, but I’m not counting my chickens before they hatch.

 

I agree Cook will get time and maybe it’s as a hybrid out of the slot if he can’t handle the blocking assignments.  I doubt he will have any real issue, but he’s not exactly built like a tank, so it may be a problem.  Either way, completely agreed they will find a way to use him, you pretty much have to with the draft position.  

You stated it well, position by position.  I would add that I think we actually will see that Davis is a solid #2, if not a break-out star.  I say this mostly based on a few things we saw about his off-season work and attitude.   I know those things often are fluff, but there's a reason it's only certain guys we see.  I get the sense that this is a guy determined to be better, a guy who has seen he can make it work almost by sheer determination.   I don't know any of that as a matter of fact, but I get that vibe. 

 

Writing this reminds me of one my first ever favorite receivers - Gary Collins.  In 1964, I was a senior in high school, a big Browns fan as well as Bills fan, and Gary Collins was the split end (not the flanker, the split end).  He was big but not the biggest, a good runner but by no means a burner, with really good hands and fierce determination, determination like Kittle.  And he was the Bills punter, and would run fake punts.   

 

 You'd look at the guy and you'd say "nothing  about him says 'star.'  'Nothing.'"  And yet, Gary Collins is going to beat you.  

 

Something tells me that's what Davis is becoming.  He's figuring out how to be good speed, good size, good blocker, good fighter, good everything.  Nothing's great, but everything is very good.   And combined, it's great.  Not necessarily pretty, because it's not Lance Alworth grace, or Megatron size, or Rice otherworldliness, but together, it's still something that makes you great.   Maybe not great for a long career, but someone who for a few years forces you to deal with him.    

[MJS]

22 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Partially on not having great YAC receivers….

Possibly this as well. Crowder is a good YAC guy, though. I think he is going to have a big year.

[ColoradoBills]

This proves it.  It's all a mirage with Josh and the Bills.

[BADOLBILZ]

11 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm not 100% confident in Cook's ability to run inside consistently, not yet anyways. My understanding is that he wasn't asked to do it that much at Georgia. Singletary I think has better contact balance. And almost certainly better pass protection ability. But I am certain that when a hole is there Cook will hit it much faster and maximize the opportunity. There were a number of times last year when Singletary was too slow to hit the hole and it closed around him. So yeah I would expect Cook to be better there but it remains to be seen. Where I am 100% confident in Cook as an upgrade is as a receiving back. It is not even a question in my mind that his YAC per reception will be better than Singletary.

 

 

Sure, but it's even better if you can get yards from both roles. You're the one that's been saying the Bills should have focused on upgrading the offense this year. Our RB pass game, the outside run game, and the RB screen game have been practically non-existent since Allen came to town. Breida couldn't figure out which side of the field he was supposed to be on and fans still latched on to him because he gave us any level of dynamic ability at the position. Cook gives us that ability and opens up the play book. Just by adding him the primary offense now has zero glaring weaknesses.

 

 

1. So to clarify.......you claimed that any dime-a-dozen RB can produce on the ground like Devin Singletary has the past 3 seasons but you have your doubts about James Cook being able to run the ball anywhere but outside?   

 

2. There is no "but" about it.........slot receivers were the very last nail in the coffin of the 3 down back.   Teams that rely on backs in any aspect of the game haven't proven to be effective in the playoffs for the past 20 years.   When the defensive intensity gets wratcheted up in the playoffs.........running backs get no room.   That's why teams lead by great rushers don't win SB's.    It applies to receiving backs as well.........ask the Saints........Alvin Kamara has averaged 3.8 yards rushing and 8.3 yards per reception in 7 playoff games.  Throw the ball to the slot receiver for 10-12 yards and call it a day.

 

[DCofNC]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

You stated it well, position by position.  I would add that I think we actually will see that Davis is a solid #2, if not a break-out star.  I say this mostly based on a few things we saw about his off-season work and attitude.   I know those things often are fluff, but there's a reason it's only certain guys we see.  I get the sense that this is a guy determined to be better, a guy who has seen he can make it work almost by sheer determination.   I don't know any of that as a matter of fact, but I get that vibe. 

 

Writing this reminds me of one my first ever favorite receivers - Gary Collins.  In 1964, I was a senior in high school, a big Browns fan as well as Bills fan, and Gary Collins was the split end (not the flanker, the split end).  He was big but not the biggest, a good runner but by no means a burner, with really good hands and fierce determination, determination like Kittle.  And he was the Bills punter, and would run fake punts.   

 

 You'd look at the guy and you'd say "nothing  about him says 'star.'  'Nothing.'"  And yet, Gary Collins is going to beat you.  

 

Something tells me that's what Davis is becoming.  He's figuring out how to be good speed, good size, good blocker, good fighter, good everything.  Nothing's great, but everything is very good.   And combined, it's great.  Not necessarily pretty, because it's not Lance Alworth grace, or Megatron size, or Rice otherworldliness, but together, it's still something that makes you great.   Maybe not great for a long career, but someone who for a few years forces you to deal with him.    

I think you are right about Davis, I expect him to step up.  I think he could be similar to Robert Woods with the Rams.  He’ll have really big games and always make you account for him, but still wouldn’t be a “true” #1 if you will.  If he can bring it to that level, it will be amazing.  I have a lot of hope that he can, for all the reasons you stated.  If you look at his measurables, he’s got what it takes to be a true #1, the work ethic is there, the QB is there, it’s a matter of it all coming to fruition.

 

I can’t speak to Gary Collins, but he reminds me a lot of Boldin, Woods, Moulds, etc who have a similar skill set, like you said, good at everything, maybe not that particular standout quality, but you have to account for them at all times or they will kill you.  Example: KC game.

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I think you are right about Davis, I expect him to step up.  I think he could be similar to Robert Woods with the Rams.  He’ll have really big games and always make you account for him, but still wouldn’t be a “true” #1 if you will.  If he can bring it to that level, it will be amazing.  I have a lot of hope that he can, for all the reasons you stated.  If you look at his measurables, he’s got what it takes to be a true #1, the work ethic is there, the QB is there, it’s a matter of it all coming to fruition.

 

I can’t speak to Gary Collins, but he reminds me a lot of Boldin, Woods, Moulds, etc who have a similar skill set, like you said, good at everything, maybe not that particular standout quality, but you have to account for them at all times or they will kill you.  Example: KC game.

Yes about Boldin, Woods, and Moulds.  All a little different, but that's the type.  Not quite a #1 but a handful as a #2. 

[DCofNC]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

1. So to clarify.......you claimed that any dime-a-dozen RB can produce on the ground like Devin Singletary has the past 3 seasons but you have your doubts about James Cook being able to run the ball anywhere but outside?   

 

2. There is no "but" about it.........slot receivers were the very last nail in the coffin of the 3 down back.   Teams that rely on backs in any aspect of the game haven't proven to be effective in the playoffs for the past 20 years.   When the defensive intensity gets wratcheted up in the playoffs.........running backs get no room.   That's why teams lead by great rushers don't win SB's.    It applies to receiving backs as well.........ask the Saints........Alvin Kamara has averaged 3.8 yards rushing and 8.3 yards per reception in 7 playoff games.  Throw the ball to the slot receiver for 10-12 yards and call it a day.

 

I don’t think the concerns are far off, Cook has not shown the ability to run between the tackles, his contact balance has appeared below average and Beane even stated he wasn’t a primary back when he drafted him.  Personally, I don’t think it was a good pick and I expect him to struggle to do anything meaningful.  If there’s one thing this regime has really sucked at, it’s getting a RB.  They have swung and missed multiple times, I’ll go on record as saying, I think this is another miss because you drafted a guy to take the role of McKissic that you had signed for 3M a year. That’s not second round value.  I hope I’m wrong, but this Cook is not Dalvin. 

[wppete]

80 yard bombs! No need for YAC

[BADOLBILZ]

19 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I don’t think the concerns are far off, Cook has not shown the ability to run between the tackles, his contact balance has appeared below average and Beane even stated he wasn’t a primary back when he drafted him.  Personally, I don’t think it was a good pick and I expect him to struggle to do anything meaningful.  If there’s one thing this regime has really sucked at, it’s getting a RB.  They have swung and missed multiple times, I’ll go on record as saying, I think this is another miss because you drafted a guy to take the role of McKissic that you had signed for 3M a year. That’s not second round value.  I hope I’m wrong, but this Cook is not Dalvin. 

 

 

Yeah..........draft picks have cash value.........especially the early ones.

 

A first rounder is a pick you should only use on a guy with a big money ceiling.........QB/PassRush/WR1/LT/CB1.........the kind of guys who are getting upwards of $20M AAV's right now.

 

The second round doesn't drop off to $3M aav. 

 

They reached for a perceived need there.

 

I really liked the McKissic signing but a second rounder or even early 3rd round pick needs to be a player with an 8 figure AAV ceiling still.

 

I like James Cook.........hopefully he outplays Beane's expectations and becomes the actual lead back his draft pedigree suggests......so they can justify keeping him on the field for all 3 downs.......because there really isn't much need for a "third down back" in the NFL anymore.   That position is f*cking dead.    If everyone knows you are passing the ball it's irrational to take a receiver off the field for a RB.

[Fr. Jerk]

We almost made the SB, ya dig?