Re-thinking the hiring of color commentators

[K-9]

52 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Sometimes they talk so much BECAUSE the game is not interesting.   One team is blowing out another and announcers are trying to get viewers to not leave like the fans in the stands.

True. Perhaps it’s just me, but there is nothing a color commentator can say that will keep me tuned in, whether the game is interesting or not. Nothing at all. 

[oldmanfan]

In general folks are way too critical of announcers.  It is not the easiest job in the world, and if God forbid one is critical of the Bills then they automatically stink.  The color guys by and large have played the game at the NFL level, and like it or not they know a helluva lot more about football than 99+% of folks on this board.

 

Last week was an example.  Sanchez was critical of Josh.  And guess what?  Josh didn’t play very well last week.  

[Southern_Bills]

I don't disagree with the OP, though I caution you that they are entertainers. 

 

Most of the viewing public doesn't really know what a penalty is. That said, do they care if a commentator botches the rule when explaining it? Not really, as long as they are entertained.

 

I'm like you and would prefer guys that know what they are talking about, though then what would I complain about when watching the game? 

 

Most people watch for first downs and touchdowns, everything else is just a formality. 

[Kaenon]

4 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Meh … I garner my enjoyment from the game itself.  I don’t give much attention to who is calling the game, unlike many on these boards who get all worked up over every comment or perceived slight to their team

Except when it's Chris Collinsworthlessness and I have to watch Sunday Night Football on mute every week...

[chris heff]

4 hours ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Football's ratings are through the roof. They dwarf any other sport or entertainment content. The color guys are former players and coaches for a good reason. They provide on field experience that viewers enjoy. The networks, who pay a fortune for the rights, have a time tested formula for picking analysts. Don't try to reinvent the wheel. 

I’m going to use James Lofton as an example, he may not be the greatest color guy, but he did one of the Bills games this year and his analysis of why a play didn’t work was great. He explained how Sanders cutting off a route too short effected Beasley, which resulted in an incompletion. He then explained how Sanders should have run the route, really good.

 

John Madden was the greatest color guy and it’s not even close, he was a former player and coach.

[T master]

Not every one can bring to the game what Madden did he was 1 of a kind in the booth & in life ! 

 

I grew up with Don Meredith, Frank, Howard, Madden, Summeral, & Al Micheals & how do you follow those guys that is one hell of a high bar to reach ?

 

Terrico is good but he's one of the last good ones when Micheals leaves which i think he will be soon the announcers besides Nance, Buck & Terrico (maybe Romo) it will be a baron waste land of announcers & the games will be average at best .

 

There will be others but it will take a while to fill those shoes i mentioned ...

Edited January 8, 2022 by T master

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

49 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

In general folks are way too critical of announcers.  It is not the easiest job in the world, and if God forbid one is critical of the Bills then they automatically stink.  The color guys by and large have played the game at the NFL level, and like it or not they know a helluva lot more about football than 99+% of folks on this board.

 

Last week was an example.  Sanchez was critical of Josh.  And guess what?  Josh didn’t play very well last week.  

There is a difference between knowledge and how to communicate that knowledge. Most of these color guys have very bland talking points

and stick to them. They very rarely impart anything knowledgeable that an average fan wouldn’t know.

 

I think some of that is due to lack preparation, but most of it is lack of ability in understanding how to communicate insightful comments in real time. 
 

Did you know that the Falcons threw a bunch of exotic coverages at Josh and the Bills last sunday? They would show cover 3, but do like a cover 2 robber, which apparently would confuse Josh.
 

Isn’t that something a good color commentator (especially a former QB) would identify and communicate in order to Explain what was occurring on the field? Instead, the viewer is left wondering what is going on, and Sanchez vapid comments like, “he shouldn’t have thrown that ball there.”

 

[Ya Digg?]

5 minutes ago, T master said:

Not every one can bring to the game what Madden did he was 1 of a kind in the booth & in life ! 

 

I grew up with Don Meredith, Frank, Howard, Madden, Summeral, & Al Micheals & how do you follow those guys that is one hell of a high bar to reach ?

 

Terrico is good but he's one of the last good ones when Micheals leaves which i think he will be soon the announcers besides Nance, Buck & Terrico (maybe Romo) it will be a baron waste land of announcers & the games will be average at best .

 

There will be others but it will take a while to fill those shoes i mentioned ...

I would be willing to bet if those guys did games now people would criticize them just like people criticize the current guys

[HamptonBillsfan]

8 minutes ago, chris heff said:

I’m going to use James Lofton as an example, he may not be the greatest color guy, but he did one of the Bills games this year and his analysis of why a play didn’t work was great. He explained how Sanders cutting off a route too short effected Beasley, which resulted in an incompletion. He then explained how Sanders should have run the route, really good.

 

John Madden was the greatest color guy and it’s not even close, he was a former player and coach.

Loved Madden, but you're probably too young to remember Paul Christman and Paul McGuire. They were really good.

[Einstein]

5 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I think we can all agree that there are a lot of terrible football (and really sports) color commentators out there. I believe the NFL needs to change its hiring model. 
 

i think there was this belief that hiring former players and coaches as commentators would cause fans to like them or watch them more because of their popularity. I don’t think that assumption is right. I don’t know anyone who likes a commentator or his work just because he was liked or known as a player. 
 

There are now so many really brilliant content creators out there (media, podcasts, YouTube) who dissect film endlessly and would provide so much better and more astute analysis than the likes of Tiki Barber or Adam
Archuletta Or Troy Ailman, or Brian Griese, or Mark Sanchez, etc. 

 

I would like to see the NFL shift away from the hiring of recently retired players and instead look at some of these “film nerds” as possible hires. As average football fans are getting smarter and more into the X’s and O’s, the current model of having former players trot out a bunch of vapid talking points is not working. 
 

Any thoughts? 

I want the complete opposite.

 

I would love to hear the “average Joe” commentate a game.

 

Im not talking about the podcasters and YouTuber know-it-alls.

 

I want Joe Schmoe, who yells at his TV in the basement, to commentate a game.

 

Give me the raw passion of a true fan of the game.

 

Instead of hearing: “That’s a tough break for Buffalo. Questionable call.”

 

You would hear: “That is absolutely awful. How does this guy still have a job? Goodness gracious that was a terrible call. TERRIBLE CALL REF!”

 

I know it will never ever happen but I love the idea.

 

.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Einstein

[Nextmanup]

3 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

There is a difference between knowledge and how to communicate that knowledge. Most of these color guys have very bland talking points

and stick to them. They very rarely impart anything knowledgeable that an average fan wouldn’t know.

 

I think some of that is due to lack preparation, but most of it is lack of ability in understanding how to communicate insightful comments in real time. 
 

Did you know that the Falcons threw a bunch of exotic coverages at Josh and the Bills last sunday? They would show cover 3, but do like a cover 2 robber, which apparently would confuse Josh.
 

Isn’t that something a good color commentator (especially a former QB) would identify and communicate in order to Explain what was occurring on the field? Instead, the viewer is left wondering what is going on, and Sanchez vapid comments like, “he shouldn’t have thrown that ball there.”

 

I would argue your average ex-NFL player wouldn't recognize (or stay current with) exotic defensive schemes.  You can't comment on that which you do not see.

 

What annoys me is how, over time, a language has been built up surrounding football in terms of how to talk about it.  People hear this their whole lives and then repeat it themselves...despite the fact that what they are saying is nonsense.

 

The classic example is the concept of "momentum" during a football game.  It's a fiction that isn't actually involved in the game, but what color guy won't talk about momentum at some point during a game?

 

And then you have the modern color guy strategy of simply flattering everything on the field and surrounding the game.  I think guys do that because its easy.  You don't have to know what you're watching to say something nice about a payer/coach/whatever.

 

Jon Gruden took that to a new level on MNF, and currently, Cris Collinsworth is its most offensive practitioner.

 

Collinsworth makes me feel dirty; he comes across like a used car salesman trying to sell something. 

 

The game doesn't need his help, and he comes across like an amateur with that type of ownership interest in the product.  

 

He's there to comment on the game, not sell me on NFL football.

 

 

 

[chris heff]

1 minute ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Loved Madden, but you're probably too young to remember Paul Christman and Paul McGuire. They were really good.

“Too young”, I’m thinking of putting you in my will. Not only do I remember them as color guys, I remember McGuire as a player, watched him punt at the Old Rockpile.

[Nextmanup]

6 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Loved Madden, but you're probably too young to remember Paul Christman and Paul McGuire. They were really good.

Are people talking about Dick Enberg?  He was AWESOME.

Heck, I always liked Charlie Jones!  

 

Paul Maguire was like the poor man's John Madden.  Very similar cut of cloth, but not quite as good.  He was still great though.

 

Who didn't love "The Budweiser Sports Line with Paul Maguire" back in the day?!

 

Used to watch that religiously, desperate for any Bills media coverage I could find.  The good old days pre-internet! 

 

 

[T master]

7 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

I would be willing to bet if those guys did games now people would criticize them just like people criticize the current guys

 

Probably but there are those that wouldn't know talent if it walked up & slapped them in the face ! That's why there are so many terrible singing artists out today because in general the American public have tin ears ! 

 

I knew the world as we know it was in trouble when Aerosmith & The Who played during the halftime shows of the SB & the youngsters said they couldn't wait for them to stop using all these old foggies during that show & these are acts that they will be playing their music for the next 100 yrs .

 

That just showed me what i needed to know about this generations skills at seeing true talent Hell they think Colbert & Fallen are funny go figure ...

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Marshawn Lynch is destined for this job.

[K-9]

It’s been all down hill since Curt Gowdy and Al DeRogatis. 😄

[Chicharito]

Get joe buck out now his whinny voice makes my ears hurt.

[HamptonBillsfan]

Just now, Nextmanup said:

Are people talking about Dick Enberg?  He was AWESOME.

Heck, I always liked Charlie Jones!  

 

Paul Maguire was like the poor man's John Madden.  Very similar cut of cloth, but not quite as good.  He was still great though.

 

Who didn't love "The Budweiser Sports Line with Paul Maguire" back in the day?!

 

Used to watch that religiously, desperate for any Bills media coverage I could find.  The good old days pre-internet! 

 

 

Charlie did some memorable Bills games. He was NBCs 2nd crew behind Gowdy and Christman. Wasn't Charlie play by play? Loved his voice. Do you remember John Brody. He was solid.

[Nextmanup]

1 minute ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Charlie did some memorable Bills games. He was NBCs 2nd crew behind Gowdy and Christman. Wasn't Charlie play by play? Loved his voice. Do you remember John Brody. He was solid.

John Brodie.  Yes, he was a football player, golfer, and announcer all in one! 

 

Curt Gowdy was a great broadcaster; one of the all time best.  And yes, Charlie Jones was play by play too.

 

I guess I'm changing the topic as this is supposed to be about color guys.

 

 

[chris heff]

2 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Charlie did some memorable Bills games. He was NBCs 2nd crew behind Gowdy and Christman. Wasn't Charlie play by play? Loved his voice. Do you remember John Brody. He was solid.

Charle Jones was play by play, and I also remember Brody as a player.

 

Just curious, which Hampton? 

[RevWarRifleman]

7 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I think we can all agree that there are a lot of terrible football (and really sports) color commentators out there. I believe the NFL needs to change its hiring model. 
 

i think there was this belief that hiring former players and coaches as commentators would cause fans to like them or watch them more because of their popularity. I don’t think that assumption is right. I don’t know anyone who likes a commentator or his work just because he was liked or known as a player. 
 

There are now so many really brilliant content creators out there (media, podcasts, YouTube) who dissect film endlessly and would provide so much better and more astute analysis than the likes of Tiki Barber or Adam
Archuletta Or Troy Ailman, or Brian Griese, or Mark Sanchez, etc. 

 

I would like to see the NFL shift away from the hiring of recently retired players and instead look at some of these “film nerds” as possible hires. As average football fans are getting smarter and more into the X’s and O’s, the current model of having former players trot out a bunch of vapid talking points is not working. 
 

Any thoughts? 

Copy that!!

[HamptonBillsfan]

3 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

John Brodie.  Yes, he was a football player, golfer, and announcer all in one! 

 

Curt Gowdy was a great broadcaster; one of the all time best.  And yes, Charlie Jones was play by play too.

 

I guess I'm changing the topic as this is supposed to be about color guys.

 

 

Either way, it's good talking about the old AFL. My entire neighborhood were die hard Giants fans. Watching Jets, Bills, Dolphins,Chiefs Chargers were these wide open, high scoring memorable jewels. Gowdy, Charlie, Enberg and Criquie delivered these gems to a kid who lived and died with the Bills. 

15 minutes ago, chris heff said:

Charle Jones was play by play, and I also remember Brody as a player.

 

Just curious, which Hampton? 

West Hampton 

[Shaw66]

First, I don't really care.  Sometimes the announcers say interesting things, sometimes they don't.   Could it be better?  Sure.

 

Having said that, I firmly believe that the color commentators need to be former players or former coaches.   Why?  Because if you haven't seriously lived that life, played in the league for five years or coached in it for 20, it's almost impossible to see and understand what's going.   Is there a geek out there somewhere who's studied everything and knows it so well that they're as good as a former coach or player?   Sure, but they're very few in number. 

 

Mel Kiper is my example.   He's a geek, studied the draft for 20 years before he became a network fixture.   Still, he knows very little about player evaluation compared to scouts.  Now, after that first 20 years and another 20 as a national broadcaster, he still couldn't be a color commentator.  He doesn't know what he's talking about, and anyone, like a lot of us, who know a fair amount about football, can tell that he doesn't know what he's talking about. 

 

Plus, because it's all window dressing anyway, the networks want name recognition.   It gives the color guy instant credibility.   It doesn't matter if Joe Bloke is a better commentator than James Lofton.   All the networks care about is when they introduce the color guy, they can say James Lofton, Super Bowl champion, Hall of Famer, instead of Joe Bloke, studied football in his basement for 35 years.  

 

My personal opinion is that only QBs should be color commentators, because they're the only ones who really understand the game.   Even so, a lot of them aren't very good at it.  

 

Of course, you'd be great at it, and so would I.  Other than that, most all of them suck. 

 

 

 

[chris heff]

16 minutes ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

Either way, it's good talking about the old AFL. My entire neighborhood were die hard Giants fans. Watching Jets, Bills, Dolphins,Chiefs Chargers were these wide open, high scoring memorable jewels. Gowdy, Charlie, Enberg and Criquie delivered these gems to a kid who lived and died with the Bills. 

West Hampton 

Criquie went to my high school. 
 

Got married in Southampton, use to live in Quogue.

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

There is a difference between knowledge and how to communicate that knowledge. Most of these color guys have very bland talking points

and stick to them. They very rarely impart anything knowledgeable that an average fan wouldn’t know.

 

I think some of that is due to lack preparation, but most of it is lack of ability in understanding how to communicate insightful comments in real time. 
 

Did you know that the Falcons threw a bunch of exotic coverages at Josh and the Bills last sunday? They would show cover 3, but do like a cover 2 robber, which apparently would confuse Josh.
 

Isn’t that something a good color commentator (especially a former QB) would identify and communicate in order to Explain what was occurring on the field? Instead, the viewer is left wondering what is going on, and Sanchez vapid comments like, “he shouldn’t have thrown that ball there.”

 

Some of it is time constraints between plays

[HamptonBillsfan]

2 minutes ago, chris heff said:

Criquie went to my high school. 
 

Got married in Southampton, use to live in Quogue.

I moved to WH 15 years ago after 20 years in Westchester. Love it out here. 

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

 

Isn’t that something a good color commentator (especially a former QB) would identify and communicate in order to Explain what was occurring on the field? Instead, the viewer is left wondering what is going on, and Sanchez vapid comments like, “he shouldn’t have thrown that ball there.”

 

 

I am not sure Sanchez knew what was going on either.

[WotAGuy]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

I want the complete opposite.

 

I would love to hear the “average Joe” commentate a game.

 

Im not talking about the podcasters and YouTuber know-it-alls.

 

I want Joe Schmoe, who yells at his TV in the basement, to commentate a game.

 

Give me the raw passion of a true fan of the game.

 

Instead of hearing: “That’s a tough break for Buffalo. Questionable call.”

 

You would hear: “That is absolutely awful. How does this guy still have a job? Goodness gracious that was a terrible call. TERRIBLE CALL REF!”

 

I know it will never ever happen but I love the idea.

 

.

There are a lot of those kind of knuckleheads that stream live via Twitter, Facebook and have their stuff on YouTube.  It’s only entertaining for about 60 seconds. There was a guy that did Dolphins play by play and his reaction to the game where Miami lost in ridiculous fashion at the end was hilarious. 

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

There are a lot of those kind of knuckleheads that stream live via Twitter, Facebook and have their stuff on YouTube.  It’s only entertaining for about 60 seconds. There was a guy that did Dolphins play by play and his reaction to the game where Miami lost in ridiculous fashion at the end was hilarious. 

 

The key, I think, is to not allow fans of that particular team to commentate.

[Jrb1979]

I'm fine with most colour commentators. I would rather they do something about the play-by-play guys. Too many can't follow the play very well and are way over the top homers. 

[Punching Bag]

I think Brian Baldinger would be a good member of announcing team.

They should have him at HQs and have him diagnosis plays.

[K-9]

11 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

I think Brian Baldinger would be a good member of announcing team.

They should have him at HQs and have him diagnosis plays.

Baldy did color commentary for Fox years ago.

[May Day 10]

My favorite all year was Millen

 

 

It was a trainwreck... but in a way that was memorable and funny.  

[BassToMouth]

8 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I think we can all agree that there are a lot of terrible football (and really sports) color commentators out there. I believe the NFL needs to change its hiring model. 
 

i think there was this belief that hiring former players and coaches as commentators would cause fans to like them or watch them more because of their popularity. I don’t think that assumption is right. I don’t know anyone who likes a commentator or his work just because he was liked or known as a player. 
 

There are now so many really brilliant content creators out there (media, podcasts, YouTube) who dissect film endlessly and would provide so much better and more astute analysis than the likes of Tiki Barber or Adam
Archuletta Or Troy Ailman, or Brian Griese, or Mark Sanchez, etc. 

 

I would like to see the NFL shift away from the hiring of recently retired players and instead look at some of these “film nerds” as possible hires. As average football fans are getting smarter and more into the X’s and O’s, the current model of having former players trot out a bunch of vapid talking points is not working. 
 

Any thoughts? 

The reason it’s so poor quality and the nfl, like with the refs, do nothing about it or encourage the networks to, is because it’s a tight club that needs to stay on script. Again, this is about presenting narratives not covering fair, legitimate sport. 
 

But I’m sure there’s no endless supply of mental gymnastics to explain why the quality is so low and yet nothing changes. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by BassToMouth

[DisplacedBillsFan]

I know there are a lot of not so stellar commentators out there and some seem to be hated simply because it’s cool to hate them… but Troy Aikman has to be the worst of the bunch. He literally makes me want to do anything other than watch the game he’s working.

[Freddie's Dead]

Howard Cosell called this the "jockocracy".  It hasn't changed in the 27 years since his death, and it won't change anytime soon.

[Shaw66]

On the other hand, you have Exhibit A for not hiring ex-players.   Randy Moss doing the postgame with our favorites, Rex and Bruschi, Moss said this about the end of the Chiefs Broncos tonight:   

 

To set the scene, the Broncos were up 1, in the red zone with 8 minutes left, fumble and give up an 85-yard return to lose the game.  So, what does Randy say?

 

"I've gotta say the turning point of the game was the scoop and score by KC in the 4th quarter."    How's that for a quality insight into the game, the kind of stuff you only can get from an insider?   My dog knew it was the turning point. 

[Rico]

Bring OJ and Joe Namath back.

 

[SinceThe70s]

56 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

On the other hand, you have Exhibit A for not hiring ex-players.   Randy Moss doing the postgame with our favorites, Rex and Bruschi, Moss said this about the end of the Chiefs Broncos tonight:   

 

To set the scene, the Broncos were up 1, in the red zone with 8 minutes left, fumble and give up an 85-yard return to lose the game.  So, what does Randy say?

 

"I've gotta say the turning point of the game was the scoop and score by KC in the 4th quarter."    How's that for a quality insight into the game, the kind of stuff you only can get from an insider?   My dog knew it was the turning point. 

 

LOL - saw that live with my son and I immediately eviscerated Moss. Master of the obvious. 

 

I still prefer ex-players (or coaches) as color commentators but I disagree with a point you made earlier suggesting it should be confined to QB's. For example, I'm in the camp that listens to Collinsworth - even though I hate his delivery/pomposity/(insert your hated player/team)-worshiping

 

 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

LOL - saw that live with my son and I immediately eviscerated Moss. Master of the obvious. 

 

I still prefer ex-players (or coaches) as color commentators but I disagree with a point you made earlier suggesting it should be confined to QB's. For example, I'm in the camp that listens to Collinsworth - even though I hate his delivery/pomposity/(insert your hated player/team)-worshiping

 

 

Yeah, some non-qbs can do it.  I like Collinsworth, too.