Re-thinking the hiring of color commentators

[Rochesterfan]

4 hours ago, Limeaid said:

I think Brian Baldinger would be a good member of announcing team.

They should have him at HQs and have him diagnosis plays.

 

Baldy did color for a while - was not very good. - I don’t think there was enough time for him to do and say everything he needed to.

 

He is much better doing his screen grabs for Twitter.  He has time to point out exactly what he wants and say it how he wants.

 

 

[DrPJax]

14 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I think we can all agree that there are a lot of terrible football (and really sports) color commentators out there. I believe the NFL needs to change its hiring model. 
 

i think there was this belief that hiring former players and coaches as commentators would cause fans to like them or watch them more because of their popularity. I don’t think that assumption is right. I don’t know anyone who likes a commentator or his work just because he was liked or known as a player. 
 

There are now so many really brilliant content creators out there (media, podcasts, YouTube) who dissect film endlessly and would provide so much better and more astute analysis than the likes of Tiki Barber or Adam
Archuletta Or Troy Ailman, or Brian Griese, or Mark Sanchez, etc. 

 

I would like to see the NFL shift away from the hiring of recently retired players and instead look at some of these “film nerds” as possible hires. As average football fans are getting smarter and more into the X’s and O’s, the current model of having former players trot out a bunch of vapid talking points is not working. 
 

Any thoughts? 

Really , being a “ content creator” for a year or two on YouTube makes you believe these people appeal to a larger audience?  Most are just covering their own home teams and I’m sorry but 99% while funny or somewhat entertaining, are amateurs especially when compared to the years of experience , training that goes into actual color commentators. Most content creators barely speak correct English and most are just biased fan boys. A great deal just rant while eating or drinking during their “ content” and I have seen their so called  “ interview” of players!  They are questions lacking depth and they don’t challenge players because they first are “ fans” and second, players don’t take them seriously because they are not getting paid or great exposure and if a players performance is challenged, might as well say goodbye to any more access.   Players do interviews under contract demands with the NFL AND NFLPA. Most content provider interviews are a joke as they draw interest narrowly from home team fans .  
 

Can some evaluate Film well, certainly , but who says it’s correct analysis  and who says they can do it under time constraints and the pressure of millions of viewers. I have seen just about about  every bills content YouTube provider and while they know the home team and appeal to a “ homer “ audience, remember , it’s a job being knowledgeable about the ENTIRE LEAGUE!  It’s insulting to think those already on have not paid their dues with years of playing and then traing before they go on for any long period. Just see Kelly , Tasksr, guys who were great plAysrs but compare their talent to a rarity like Romo !   There is a reason the players START with a broadcasting camp now just to help get them started in that direction. It’s hard and requires talents few possess. 
 

it’s like a surgery  resident explaining a surgery , they can do it very well on a small scale.  That doesn’t suddenly give them so much ability, validity and confidence that  they can handle a kidney transplant while a hundred students, professors, surgical equipment providers , and urologists  who specialize in transplants , along with families and payors watching and critiquing , would perform adequately!  Maybe 1-2 out of a hundred would handle the pressure , but most couldn’t.  The good ones make it look easy , but don’t be foolish, it’s not and requires years of training and skill to be good and the competition gets more intense at each level. Most content providers I would bet csnt even make it on their local TV sports broadcasts. People do get degrees in broadcasting ; I would bet just from watching their work , most are not even journalists or college grads!  There are a few very interesting guys but honestly, they are far from professionals.  Not saying they couldn’t be with time and training , but the majority by far ARE NOT SPORTS journalists already for a reason. 
 

Most content providers have about 500 -1 k viewers at any given time.  Again, most appeal to their home team fans as they have time to just focus on One team and their audience is usually highly biased toward that team!  Hey , let them start out like everybody , break down film for the tv people on a home network, and then work their way up. Lets see them not freeze under pressure. YouTube is not national tv!  You’re comparing high school to PH.D.type levels. There is no rambling , must speak clearly and succinctly, and it’s not just throwing out film breakdown, you have to be appealing to the camera, sponsors, and across a national audience!  If it was so easy there would be thousands of YouTube channels with a million subscribers or videos with millions of views; remember the NFL  is the most  popular sport , most successful sport in the USA , so it should be easy to draw millions if views , right?  If they are making a 5 figure , 6 figure income on YouTube , why is this a part time job for the vast majority?

 

Its a great resource for die hard fans. If they deserve the exposure you want to give them , they will be good enough and prove it and earn that national exposure. Are there poor color analysts , of course. The majority of those don’t last. Are there some great content providers , sure. If they are that good , they will be noticed. The vast majority tho are local market , with a very biased fandom. Those color guys on networks are under tremendous scrutiny. It’s like a mom saying her kid will be a great Major League Baseball player because he was good on his little league team! How many actually make it that far!?  The competition is fierce and only intensifies with easy level. Hey , division 3 football players are there for a reason and not on full rides at div one schools!  It’s that way with every career.   Enjoy the “ content” providers for what they are; part time enthusiasts who have great passion. That doesn’t make them a national broadcaster with large appeal!  Try it and see in your own field of passion!  There are few Rogans or mcafees out there!  Good luck! 

[BobbyC81]

20 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Interesting take. Not saying I disagree with you, but I wonder if football ratings are through the roof in spite of the low quality of the analysis. 
 

I think it is rare when I have heard anyone think highly of a color commentator (Romo? Anyone else?).

John Madden?

[BobbyC81]

16 hours ago, T master said:

Not every one can bring to the game what Madden did he was 1 of a kind in the booth & in life ! 

 

I grew up with Don Meredith, Frank, Howard, Madden, Summeral, & Al Micheals & how do you follow those guys that is one hell of a high bar to reach ?

 

Terrico is good but he's one of the last good ones when Micheals leaves which i think he will be soon the announcers besides Nance, Buck & Terrico (maybe Romo) it will be a baron waste land of announcers & the games will be average at best .

 

There will be others but it will take a while to fill those shoes i mentioned ...

Starting next season, Thursday Night Football will be exclusively on Amazon Prime Video.  Rumor is that Michaels is going to do those games with Tirico taking over SNF full time.

[John Gianelli]

Didn't read through all 7 pages, but does anyone else think that we could lose 95% of the current sideline reporters and be better off? I enjoy Sal, but just about everyone on the major networks is just terrible.

[dave mcbride]

21 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

This is another thead for misplaced Collinsworth hate. What I want from a colour guy is the ability to break down a play immediately after it has happened to further my understanding of how or why it worked or failed. He does that better than any of his peers. 

 

Failing that give me pure entertainment and Matt Millen who was terrific week 2. 

 

If I never heard Troy Aikman's inane football for dummies analysis again it would not concern me and I want year 1 Tony Romo back. Not a bloke who just speaks really quickly and reeeeeeeaaaaalllllly high Jim!!! Romo was the best pre-snap and CBS clearly reigned him in. Take that away from him and he is an average announcer with an annoying voice. He is actually pretty average after the play and often says things then has to correct himself when he sees the replay. Doesn't have Collinsworth's eye.

I honestly think Louis Riddick is the most insightful color guy on the air right now (in terms of breaking down plays).  And he’s not as full of himself (to the point of doing nepotistic hires) as Collinsworth. Finally, he has a good delivery.

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I honestly think Louis Riddick is the most insightful color guy on the air right now (in terms of breaking down plays).  And he’s not as full of himself (to the point of doing nepotistic hires) as Collinsworth. Finally, he has a good delivery.

 

Riddick is decent. I watch less MNF as a rule (and you have to balance good Riddick vs awful Griese) so probably hear less of him. I'd still have Collinsworth #1 personally.

Edited January 9, 2022 by GunnerBill

[bmur66]

How about shut up and show the replay

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

7 hours ago, DrPJax said:

Really , being a “ content creator” for a year or two on YouTube makes you believe these people appeal to a larger audience?  Most are just covering their own home teams and I’m sorry but 99% while funny or somewhat entertaining, are amateurs especially when compared to the years of experience , training that goes into actual color commentators. Most content creators barely speak correct English and most are just biased fan boys. A great deal just rant while eating or drinking during their “ content” and I have seen their so called  “ interview” of players!  They are questions lacking depth and they don’t challenge players because they first are “ fans” and second, players don’t take them seriously because they are not getting paid or great exposure and if a players performance is challenged, might as well say goodbye to any more access.   Players do interviews under contract demands with the NFL AND NFLPA. Most content provider interviews are a joke as they draw interest narrowly from home team fans .  
 

Can some evaluate Film well, certainly , but who says it’s correct analysis  and who says they can do it under time constraints and the pressure of millions of viewers. I have seen just about about  every bills content YouTube provider and while they know the home team and appeal to a “ homer “ audience, remember , it’s a job being knowledgeable about the ENTIRE LEAGUE!  It’s insulting to think those already on have not paid their dues with years of playing and then traing before they go on for any long period. Just see Kelly , Tasksr, guys who were great plAysrs but compare their talent to a rarity like Romo !   There is a reason the players START with a broadcasting camp now just to help get them started in that direction. It’s hard and requires talents few possess. 
 

it’s like a surgery  resident explaining a surgery , they can do it very well on a small scale.  That doesn’t suddenly give them so much ability, validity and confidence that  they can handle a kidney transplant while a hundred students, professors, surgical equipment providers , and urologists  who specialize in transplants , along with families and payors watching and critiquing , would perform adequately!  Maybe 1-2 out of a hundred would handle the pressure , but most couldn’t.  The good ones make it look easy , but don’t be foolish, it’s not and requires years of training and skill to be good and the competition gets more intense at each level. Most content providers I would bet csnt even make it on their local TV sports broadcasts. People do get degrees in broadcasting ; I would bet just from watching their work , most are not even journalists or college grads!  There are a few very interesting guys but honestly, they are far from professionals.  Not saying they couldn’t be with time and training , but the majority by far ARE NOT SPORTS journalists already for a reason. 
 

Most content providers have about 500 -1 k viewers at any given time.  Again, most appeal to their home team fans as they have time to just focus on One team and their audience is usually highly biased toward that team!  Hey , let them start out like everybody , break down film for the tv people on a home network, and then work their way up. Lets see them not freeze under pressure. YouTube is not national tv!  You’re comparing high school to PH.D.type levels. There is no rambling , must speak clearly and succinctly, and it’s not just throwing out film breakdown, you have to be appealing to the camera, sponsors, and across a national audience!  If it was so easy there would be thousands of YouTube channels with a million subscribers or videos with millions of views; remember the NFL  is the most  popular sport , most successful sport in the USA , so it should be easy to draw millions if views , right?  If they are making a 5 figure , 6 figure income on YouTube , why is this a part time job for the vast majority?

 

Its a great resource for die hard fans. If they deserve the exposure you want to give them , they will be good enough and prove it and earn that national exposure. Are there poor color analysts , of course. The majority of those don’t last. Are there some great content providers , sure. If they are that good , they will be noticed. The vast majority tho are local market , with a very biased fandom. Those color guys on networks are under tremendous scrutiny. It’s like a mom saying her kid will be a great Major League Baseball player because he was good on his little league team! How many actually make it that far!?  The competition is fierce and only intensifies with easy level. Hey , division 3 football players are there for a reason and not on full rides at div one schools!  It’s that way with every career.   Enjoy the “ content” providers for what they are; part time enthusiasts who have great passion. That doesn’t make them a national broadcaster with large appeal!  Try it and see in your own field of passion!  There are few Rogans or mcafees out there!  Good luck! 

You make quite the impassioned counter argument and a lot of good points! 
 

i actually don’t disagree with you on some of this. There are a lot of bad or inexperienced content creators out there. But that is true of normal color commentators.

 

i have listened to a lot of great content creators who are smart, knowledgeable, and great communicators.  It might be a rare one that could translate his skills to the booth— but that is true of any color commentator. It is a job that very few get— only the very best can rise to the top.

 

All I ask is that some of these guys in the new generation of film nerds be looked at as part of the pool of candidates. What I see now is the booth is viewed as just a cushy retirement job for former players who aren’t really meaningfully vetted or trained.  

[Thunderstealer]

I’d love it if comedians— proven successful podcasters with sports knowledge  like Adam Carolla or Bryan Callen would get a shot. I haven’t scrolled every reply in this thread,  but the embarrassment that is Eric Wood’s efforts on WGR is a glaring example for this shift.

[JaCrispy]

23 hours ago, maddenboy said:

I'm not saying "dont replace or upgrade the current color guys."

 

OP was talking about bringing in some new blood at the position. 

We’re talking about commentators, right? 😉

[Taro Nimbus]

If you keep this up, we'll be tortured by the combo of Beth Mowens and Chris Collinsworth for the rest of eternity.

[ArtVandalay]

I'm honestly amazed they keep trying to jam players in the booth. 

 

The most successful commentator in history that was widely loved was John Madden.  He was a coach.  And yet none of these networks are putting coaches in the booth, they aren't even trying! Why? They put coaches on pregame and analysis but not in the booth.

 

Everyone wants the next John Madden, but they keep trying talking heads and former players... for the love of God will someone get a coach in there?

 

Madden worked so well because coaches are used to explaining, teaching, and most of all speaking in front of people.  

[Billsatlastin2018]

I want EVERY commentator to be a clone of Romo. Not only, does he know backgrounds of the players and uses them, he knows the game in a highly sophisticated fashion.
 

Even more so, he can explain success or failure of a given play immediately AND predict what a given team should do on Offense. Soooo many of these 3rd. stringers just chat up and pimp up the game AFTER a given, unknown player makes a good play.

 

So often in Billy’s games, it’s about opposing players and how they appear to be HOF material after 2 plays! 

[Norcalbillsfan]

On 1/8/2022 at 7:42 AM, MiltonWaddams said:

Listened to Aqib Talib call a game for the first time last week. That was a….unique experience…

Nah. Think of Harlan, Buck and Michaels. They carry reasonable to abysmal color commentators. They are not the replaceable ones.

Talib is brutal to listen too

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

I'm honestly amazed they keep trying to jam players in the booth. 

 

The most successful commentator in history that was widely loved was John Madden.  He was a coach.  And yet none of these networks are putting coaches in the booth, they aren't even trying! Why? They put coaches on pregame and analysis but not in the booth.

 

Everyone wants the next John Madden, but they keep trying talking heads and former players... for the love of God will someone get a coach in there?

 

Madden worked so well because coaches are used to explaining, teaching, and most of all speaking in front of people.  

Bill Walsh was an excellent color commentator at one point in time as well.

 

Like the best in the game at that time, and Madden would have been working then as well!

 

 

[T master]

On 1/9/2022 at 6:55 AM, BobbyC81 said:

Starting next season, Thursday Night Football will be exclusively on Amazon Prime Video.  Rumor is that Michaels is going to do those games with Tirico taking over SNF full time.

 

This will probably do as well as MNF going to ESPN then they will sit back & wonder why isn't it doing as good as it use to ? 

 

It is all about the money though when it comes to the NFL !! 

[BobbyC81]

12 hours ago, T master said:

 

This will probably do as well as MNF going to ESPN then they will sit back & wonder why isn't it doing as good as it use to ? 

 

It is all about the money though when it comes to the NFL !! 

They have the provision for the games to be made available to the local networks.

[T master]

11 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

They have the provision for the games to be made available to the local networks.

 

Oh i don't doubt it but if they do like ESPN did and wait then a bunch of fans may find other things to watch . It took ESPN years to finally start playing the game that was on the actual channel ESPN on MNF to put it on ABC again here in my area by then they had already lost most of the viewers that's why Al jumped ship he saw it coming .

 

That  a boat load of cash i'm sure 😂 !!