[Edit] The Obligatory Edmunds Thread (was: Edmunds name-only title)

[Governor]

On 12/7/2021 at 8:44 AM, Your Brown Eye said:

How about the LB's in general? Milano had his fair share of whiffs and "catching" the blocker rather than attacking and shedding. I know Edmunds is the poster boy of "he sucks" around here and last night was not his night, but Milano isn't setting the world on fire either.

Yeah, they both stink.

[Billl]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

What’s his dead cap if we cut him next year? 

All of it.  The fifth year option they picked up is guaranteed.

[LABILLBACKER]

55 minutes ago, Billl said:

All of it.  The fifth year option they picked up is guaranteed.

We're so screwed. I just rewatched the Manning telecast and I didn't think it was possible but Edmunds looked even worse. McDermott has to hide him outside next year. Dodson in his limited snaps completely outplayed him. I'm so done with this 1st round bust.

[DCofNC]

6 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Wow. I know you! - you’re Jethro Bodine, aren’t ya? Seems evident you only graduated “plum through the 6th Grade”..  1st, it isn’t your money, so quit yer damn crying. 2nd, his ‘22 salary is average for starting MLB’s. Should the Bills (no, son, not you..) decide by next season they can’t get all of what they need from him as our starter (read Buffalo Bills 4th year starting MLB, Pro Bowler and Defensive Captain), they’re under no further financial commitment 13 months from now. These, my prodigal son, are what the Bills wish to do with THEIR money and Their player in the real world. Hot-headed nincompoops screaming from the cheap seats aren’t invited to weigh in. Obviously, I didn’t type slow enough for this to sink in.. 3rd, you weren’t asked to vote for team captains and Pro Bowl nor decided who plays where and how often. NFL coaches, players and select voters do -thus rendering your witless ramblings.. well, witless -as befits a Jethro Bodine. 
I hope you’re able to follow this explanation. I don’t care to -ya know, type slow again..

You are the type of key board warrior I would love to embarrass in public, carry on with your evasion of facts and perpetuation (if you use Google, they can tell you what that means) of fallacy on the intelligence of your favorite team’s decisions.  Certainly jocks are never impressed by others who are physically gifted, yet failures at their job; which would clearly explain why there has never been a first round bust, nor a Pro Bowler who was later figured out to be a mediocre player.   If only I could site a Pro Bowler, Captain, physically gifted player in many aspects, who had wow plays, even called the plays for their team and still never was anything more than potential; oh wait, I can, Tyrod Taylor.  Funny how it all lines up exactly the same, and when the Bills cut their losses they’ll be able to move on to a real difference maker, just like they did before.  
 

Or we can listen to Cledus Chandler and get more mediocrity, just like his name sake would indicate.

[Chandler#81]

8 hours ago, DCofNC said:

You are the type of key board warrior I would love to embarrass in public, carry on with your evasion of facts and perpetuation (if you use Google, they can tell you what that means) of fallacy on the intelligence of your favorite team’s decisions.  Certainly jocks are never impressed by others who are physically gifted, yet failures at their job; which would clearly explain why there has never been a first round bust, nor a Pro Bowler who was later figured out to be a mediocre player.   If only I could site a Pro Bowler, Captain, physically gifted player in many aspects, who had wow plays, even called the plays for their team and still never was anything more than potential; oh wait, I can, Tyrod Taylor.  Funny how it all lines up exactly the same, and when the Bills cut their losses they’ll be able to move on to a real difference maker, just like they did before.  
 

Or we can listen to Cledus Chandler and get more mediocrity, just like his name sake would indicate.

Take a Midol and stfu, Ma’am. (As for your ‘orientation’, just a wild guess..🤷‍♂️)

[Gisele]

14 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

I have to think this has been discussed at OBD as much as here at TBD. But doing so takes away his greatest aspect -covering the middle of the field on short throws. It’s in every teams’ playbook for Hot reads. WRs, TEs & RBs are always circling in this area. A couple Patriot* receivers made a multiple SB career out of it.  Edmunds length is freakish enough that many QBs no longer even attempt this, but his best attribute is his speed to go along with his unique frame. Do we all wish he hit like Jack Lambert? Read plays like Willie Lanier and be ever in the right spot like Dick Butkus? Of course. But none of those guys faced today’s game. It’s a passing 1st game today and that area of the Defense has been easy pickin’s since the West Coast Offense first reared it’s head. Tremaine brings a dimension perfectly suited to defend against this. 

 

I think the onus is on us the fans to accept it and be grateful he can take away this prevalent aspect of today’s game.

 

Now, being better at recognizing run schemes and keeping himself from being fooled in another direction is still a noticeable challenge, but this can be learned. Speed and gigantic reach can’t.

Sam Bowie was drafted ahead of Michael Jordan because of his gigantic reach.  As I frequently remind my wife, size isn't everything.

[JaCrispy]

On 12/7/2021 at 8:23 AM, beacon said:

How can they keep him at MLB? We have seen it game after game. It's because they traded up to get him and don't want to admit what a terrible move it was. No instincts, gets screened off all the time, no impact plays. No way they can pay him top $$$$. 

 

I liked Edmunds better when his name was Kelvin Sheppard...😉

[billrooter]

On 12/7/2021 at 11:03 AM, colin said:

 

lol, you said it.  he's huge, super fast, athletic, moves around well.  he looks like an all pro like half the time, and he makes just plain old errors the other half.

I honestly don't see him look like an all pro much and hardly ever makes game changing   plays, Darius Leonard is an example of that and if you look at his stats right next to Edmunds it is even more apparent.

Edited December 10, 2021 by billrooter

[colin]

10 minutes ago, billrooter said:

I honestly don't see him look like an all pro much and hardly ever makes game changing   plays, Darius Leonard is an example of that and if you look at his stats right next to Edmunds it is even more apparent.

 

he erases some mistakes by the line (perhaps they aren't mistakes, perhaps they d the run up aggressive up front and have him fill in) and he absolutely erases guys in the middle of the field in the passing game, that's why he's made probowls and got drafted high while 19 years old.

 

the issue for me is he simply makes errors, out of position, doesn't get off blocks, gets manipulated.  i honestly think better opponent coaches (like reid and billicheat) target him to get him in the wrong spot, since he's a bit of a lynchpin to our D.

 

it's all so tiresome 

[Nitro]

14 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Baldy did mention that linemen were not having to double and we’re getting to the linebackers, but he did not say that the run was Oliver’s fault.  He did not even mention Oliver by name.  He pointed out that every block the Patriots made was effective and that tee got “creased” - which we did.  It’s here if anyone wants to watch it.

I extrapolated that because he did not do his assigned duty at the point of attack.  It became a trickle down.  

[BarleyNY]

5 minutes ago, Nitro said:

I extrapolated that because he did not do his assigned duty at the point of attack.  It became a trickle down.  

He was definitely one of about six or seven defenders that could have performed better on that play and helped to prevent that long TD run.  I just thought it odd that you would single him out for the blame, especially when his failing was not requiring a double team while no Bill defeated or avoided their single block and a couple ran themselves out of the play and opened that crease.  

[Nitro]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

He was definitely one of about six or seven defenders that could have performed better on that play and helped to prevent that long TD run.  I just thought it odd that you would single him out for the blame, especially when his failing was not requiring a double team while no Bill defeated or avoided their single block and a couple ran themselves out of the play and opened that crease.  

I rewatched the game after that segment.  Oliver did the same thing a couple more times.  The D line is asked to tie up O line so the LB or Safety can make the stop.  When they flipped the play the same problem cropped up.  Solution is easy but hard.  Take out the OG/C gap and occupy them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[billrooter]

4 hours ago, colin said:

 

he erases some mistakes by the line (perhaps they aren't mistakes, perhaps they d the run up aggressive up front and have him fill in) and he absolutely erases guys in the middle of the field in the passing game, that's why he's made probowls and got drafted high while 19 years old.

 

the issue for me is he simply makes errors, out of position, doesn't get off blocks, gets manipulated.  i honestly think better opponent coaches (like reid and billicheat) target him to get him in the wrong spot, since he's a bit of a lynchpin to our D.

 

it's all so tiresome 

  I don't think he's as good in coverage as he is given credit for, but I respect your difference of opinion. I have no idea honestly but when a guy is an alternate in a pro bowl it is kind of watered down, they sometimes go 3-4 deep to name a pro bowler. The thing that gets me is it seems like every year a so called expert thinks he is going to finally fulfill his potential. I am starting to think it is just that potential he will never capitalize on, I figured since he came in so young he may fill out a bit but the eye test says he hasn't.

Edited December 10, 2021 by billrooter

[Billl]

5 hours ago, colin said:

 

he erases some mistakes by the line (perhaps they aren't mistakes, perhaps they d the run up aggressive up front and have him fill in) and he absolutely erases guys in the middle of the field in the passing game, that's why he's made probowls and got drafted high while 19 years old.

 

the issue for me is he simply makes errors, out of position, doesn't get off blocks, gets manipulated.  i honestly think better opponent coaches (like reid and billicheat) target him to get him in the wrong spot, since he's a bit of a lynchpin to our D.

 

it's all so tiresome 

He's been around for nearly 4 seasons as well.  I can't think of many great LBs who didn't figure it out until their second contract.  MLBs especially need to have great instincts.  The idea of developing instincts is a a bit paradoxical.

[Gisele]

5 minutes ago, Billl said:

He's been around for nearly 4 seasons as well.  I can't think of many great LBs who didn't figure it out until their second contract.  MLBs especially need to have great instincts.  The idea of developing instincts is a a bit paradoxical.

And he certainly may "figure it out" later in his football life.  Unfortunately for us, we needed it to be figured out by now.

[colin]

14 minutes ago, Billl said:

He's been around for nearly 4 seasons as well.  I can't think of many great LBs who didn't figure it out until their second contract.  MLBs especially need to have great instincts.  The idea of developing instincts is a a bit paradoxical.

 

ya, i said going into this season it will play out, and for a while it looked like he was gonna grab that brass ring, but frankly, i think he's solid overall, just not great.

[Billl]

1 hour ago, colin said:

 

ya, i said going into this season it will play out, and for a while it looked like he was gonna grab that brass ring, but frankly, i think he's solid overall, just not great.

I'm being pedantic, but I'd say he's more great than solid.  He's the middle infielder who makes the spectacular play but leads the league in errors.  That just doesn't play, IMO.  Give me a MLB who you can set your watch by, and I can gameplan around that.  I just don't know how you plan a defense around a guy who is a wildcard.

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, colin said:

 

he erases some mistakes by the line (perhaps they aren't mistakes, perhaps they d the run up aggressive up front and have him fill in) and he absolutely erases guys in the middle of the field in the passing game, that's why he's made probowls and got drafted high while 19 years old.

 

the issue for me is he simply makes errors, out of position, doesn't get off blocks, gets manipulated.  i honestly think better opponent coaches (like reid and billicheat) target him to get him in the wrong spot, since he's a bit of a lynchpin to our D.

 

it's all so tiresome 

It is tiresome and we've harped about his obvious mistakes for 4 years. Great, he's ok at pass coverage. Whoop de do. That's only half his job. And the other half he sucks at. Sean was probably hoping he'd be some Keuckly type. What a joke. And we're stuck with him and 13M next year. And knowing how stubborn McDermott is, he'll send him out there all 2022 as mlb.  

[John from Riverside]

15 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

It is tiresome and we've harped about his obvious mistakes for 4 years. Great, he's ok at pass coverage. Whoop de do. That's only half his job. And the other half he sucks at. Sean was probably hoping he'd be some Keuckly type. What a joke. And we're stuck with him and 13M next year. And knowing how stubborn McDermott is, he'll send him out there all 2022 as mlb.  

He is not "ok" in pass coverage........just because he is not making the interceptions doesnt mean that he is having a serious impact there.   He is a athletic sideline to sideline LB who has questionalble run instincts......in other words.....in todays NFL he is a stud

[Real McClappy]

8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

He is not "ok" in pass coverage........just because he is not making the interceptions doesnt mean that he is having a serious impact there.   He is a athletic sideline to sideline LB who has questionalble run instincts......in other words.....in todays NFL he is a stud

You could insert a db to cover sideline to sideline. We need a MLB that can have vision, shed lineman and blow up run plays a few times a game. I would love Edmunds to show me back to back run stuff plays like Milano did in the 4th quarter last Monday night. Questionable run instants is being way to generous at this phase.  I like Edmunds freak skills a lot but question if they are meant for the position at hand after almost 4 seasons now?

[Trogdor]

On 12/7/2021 at 8:41 AM, beacon said:

Colin...ton of talent? At what? Over running plays. Getting blown up 10yds. downfield? No more excuses... he's young, he's fast blah blah blah...

FWIW, he was probably the only person on the team solo tackling Henry. I just think he is a better fit on the outside. You either have instincts for the middle or you don't, and he just doesn't. 

[John from Riverside]

32 minutes ago, Real McNasty said:

You could insert a db to cover sideline to sideline. We need a MLB that can have vision, shed lineman and blow up run plays a few times a game. I would love Edmunds to show me back to back run stuff plays like Milano did in the 4th quarter last Monday night. Questionable run instants is being way to generous at this phase.  I like Edmunds freak skills a lot but question if they are meant for the position at hand after almost 4 seasons now?

It doesnt fit what they do on defense

[Jauronimo]

35 minutes ago, Real McNasty said:

You could insert a db to cover sideline to sideline. We need a MLB that can have vision, shed lineman and blow up run plays a few times a game. I would love Edmunds to show me back to back run stuff plays like Milano did in the 4th quarter last Monday night. Questionable run instants is being way to generous at this phase.  I like Edmunds freak skills a lot but question if they are meant for the position at hand after almost 4 seasons now?

Milano was having a rough game before his back to back stops.  After the All 22 film came out much of blame I had laid on Edmunds appears to have mostly been Milano missing his gaps.

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, Real McNasty said:

You could insert a db to cover sideline to sideline. We need a MLB that can have vision, shed lineman and blow up run plays a few times a game. I would love Edmunds to show me back to back run stuff plays like Milano did in the 4th quarter last Monday night. Questionable run instants is being way to generous at this phase.  I like Edmunds freak skills a lot but question if they are meant for the position at hand after almost 4 seasons now?

Again, they took a guy who played strong and weak and determined he was a good fit for the MLB in a nickel because he is athletic enough in passing situations. 4 years is not a long time to learn MLB, especially not when you have to do it at speed like this. It really doesn't help that our linemen almost always get taken 1v1. They would be better off shifting him to strong and putting a natural MLB there instead. I think WLB would be better, but they paid Milano, so that's not going to happen. 

[Philly McButterpants]

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

He is not "ok" in pass coverage........just because he is not making the interceptions doesnt mean that he is having a serious impact there.   He is a athletic sideline to sideline LB who has questionalble run instincts......in other words.....in todays NFL he is a stud

A stud?  A STUD???  You cannot be serious. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Philly McButterpants said:

A stud?  A STUD???  You cannot be serious. 

Name five better and be realistic

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

He is not "ok" in pass coverage........just because he is not making the interceptions doesnt mean that he is having a serious impact there.   He is a athletic sideline to sideline LB who has questionalble run instincts......in other words.....in todays NFL he is a stud

Come on John....a few too many drinks at the mission inn?....calling Tremaine a stud is hilarious....calling his instincts questionable is generous....

[gonzo1105]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Name five better and be realistic

Fred Warner

Bobby Wagner

Roquan Smith

Devin White

Erik Kendricks

I could also argue Patrick Queen or Devin Bush(when healthy) are just as good. 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

35 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

Fred Warner

Bobby Wagner

Roquan Smith

Devin White

Erik Kendricks

I could also argue Patrick Queen or Devin Bush(when healthy) are just as good. 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-linebacker-rankings-entering-2021-nfl-season

 

Pretty embarrassing how low Edmunds is considering we traded up in the 1st for him.

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, gonzo1105 said:

Fred Warner

Bobby Wagner

Roquan Smith

Devin White

Erik Kendricks

I could also argue Patrick Queen or Devin Bush(when healthy) are just as good. 

 

Fred Warner is the comp for Edmunds. They play very similar roles in their respective defenses.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

Fred Warner

Bobby Wagner

Roquan Smith

Devin White

Erik Kendricks

I could also argue Patrick Queen or Devin Bush(when healthy) are just as good. 

 

 

I agree with your five names and I agree Bush. But Queen? No way. He has been a disappointment.

[noacls]

I would add Dont"a Hightower too. 

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, Billl said:

[Name Only Title] Edmunds

 

 

[Word Only Answer]   Laudable.

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Come on John....a few too many drinks at the mission inn?....calling Tremaine a stud is hilarious....calling his instincts questionable is generous....

Watch and see what kind of contract he gets come contract time

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-linebacker-rankings-entering-2021-nfl-season

 

Pretty embarrassing how low Edmunds is considering we traded up in the 1st for him.

You did Not just use PFF as a reference

[DJB]

Edmunds is awful against the run 

[Philly McButterpants]

7 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Name five better and be realistic

Bobby Wagner

Darious Leonard

Fred Warner

Roquan Smith

Devin Bush 

Lavonte David

Heck, i think Klein is a better MLB. 

 

That's just off the top of my head

[noacls]

Darious Leonard is not a MLB  Okereke is. If you want to include all LB's Edmunds is probably not in the top 30

1 hour ago, Philly McButterpants said:

Bobby Wagner

Darious Leonard

Fred Warner

Roquan Smith

Devin Bush 

Lavonte David

Heck, i think Klein is a better MLB. 

 

That's just off the top of my head

[Brand J]

Edmunds is who he is at this point and I don’t see a substantial jump coming at any point in his career. I would absolutely try to trade him this off-season if I were Beane, but I know he won’t because he’d be concerned about team chemistry and would be admitting a mistake. Edmunds doesn’t impact the game enough for me to worry about who’s going to replace him. Put a JAG in there. Could’ve claimed Cunningham for pennies and went that route as well.

[Alphadawg7]

Forced 6 punts on 9 drives.

7 drives were 5 plays or less.

Allowed less than 50 yards in the 2nd half.

Gave up 1 TD.

Allowed only 240 yards. 
 

So why are people still complaining about the defense?  They did their job and put us in position to win that game.  

Our poor offensive execution lost us this game.  Penalties, terrible play calling, and drops lost us this game, not our defense or anyone on defense.  

Edited December 11, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[Billl]

19 hours ago, Trogdor said:

Again, they took a guy who played strong and weak and determined he was a good fit for the MLB in a nickel because he is athletic enough in passing situations. 4 years is not a long time to learn MLB, especially not when you have to do it at speed like this. It really doesn't help that our linemen almost always get taken 1v1. They would be better off shifting him to strong and putting a natural MLB there instead. I think WLB would be better, but they paid Milano, so that's not going to happen. 

If it takes 4 years to learn how to play MLB then don’t draft a guy to play MLB if he doesn’t already know how.  If you’re taking a MLB in the top half of the first round, he should be ready to go day one.  That is a premium pick to spend on a player at a non-premium position to begin with.  If he’s not ready until his second contract then what’s the point?