AP exclusive: Bills propose new 60k seat stadium by (update - 2025)

[purple haze]

1 hour ago, Greg S said:

 

PSL fees and raised ticket prices will price many out of being able to afford going to the games. Here in NJ both the Jets and Giants used to have a waiting list at Giants Stadium for season tickets. Since MetLife that isn't an issue anymore.

PS&E knows what the market can and can’t do.  They’ve talked about their potential PSL’s not being the same as one would find in cities like NY or LA.   I think general ticket prices going up will be of more concern for some fans.  

 

And some fans who will complain about being priced out are the same ones arguing for a roof on the stadium that will add cost to construction that would raise ticket prices even more.  Make it make sense.

 

There’s a reason why PS&E are trying to ride the line between a new, modern building and the cost of building one.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

I'll say it again, because many probably skimmed past it:

I read -- ( https://apnews.com/article/kathy-hochul-sports-nfl-business-buffalo-bills-77b347e94170316c76a9c9bd380b80ae ) -- that the plan for the new stadium in Orchard Park is to be built in such a way as to protect the field and the fans from the winds and the elements, similar to Seattle's stadium. I've attended a game there late in the year, and despite it being a cold and windy day, you couldn't really tell from the stands. 

This type of construction doesn't COMPLETELY mitigate the cold, but it makes it VASTLY more tolerable than it is at Highmark Stadium.

Here's the pertinent quote from the Wawrow article above: "The new venue would not include a roof, but it would be designed so that a majority of the seats would be protected from the elements, the person said."

Well said. Virtually every single soccer stadium in Europe has 100% of the seats covered and they have twice as many home games as an NFL Team with a season who's entire middle half is played in the dead of winter under really cold and rainy conditions. It's understood that the players are going to get wet...but unless you're sitting in the first two rows, the fans are dry. It's been that way for decades.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Peevo said:

 

 

I know it's outrageously expensive to build a dome, but if you're spending $1.5 billion, why not just spend $3 billion and get guaranteed conditions 8 / 9 games a year?

 

Your question answers itself.    Let's say $1 billion of that $1.5 billion is public money.   That's the public paying $1 billion to for the benefit of maybe 100,000 fans who go to games, as well as the several hundred thousand more who want to keep the team in Buffalo.   

 

The next $1.5 billion, to put a dome on the place, just benefits the 100,000 who go to the games.   There are a million other people around the state, and several hundred thousand around western New York, who can rightfully say, "Why aren't you spending that $1.5 billion on me?"   Spending public money to keep the team is one thing; spending it make you more comfortable when you go to the games is something else entirely. 

[Matt_In_NH]

40 minutes ago, cba fan said:

they only play in warm climates not in winter.

'

Curling is only inside in cold weather in cold buildings.

[GustheDog33]

39 minutes ago, cba fan said:

this is completely backwards planning. Vocal minority of fans who want open air keep saying they want the weather experience. 

Why cover the fans? Cover the field and block the wind from the field. Impossible obviously.

 

Must be dome or Bills will regret it just like Bears do now. This open air will be a 50 year mistake preventing pass oriented offense, which are all of the Super Bowl contenders, that is the way teams are built now and for foreseeable future they all want scoring. You want a JA Super Bowl? Must build a dome. Even WFT is planning a dome.

 

Roof only cost 3 to 6 million or so prorated out for life of dome. Will more than pay for itself in tix sales alone not to mention other events: final four, bowl game, HS games, UB games, concerts, trade shows, motorcross, truck shows, frozen four, NCAA regional, Sabres game, combines for NHL or even NFL if they rotate some day, conventions if combined with convention center downtown........

 

Lucas Oil Filed is the model (w new MN Sofi LV translucent roof feels like you are outside)to follow and must be 70k or lose home field advantage also. Soldier Field is not loud at all. Been there numerous times. Pathetic.

 

Buffalo will not get a Final Four NFL Combines or NCAA bowl games.  Those event have minimum requirements for things like hotel rooms within 1 hour of the stadium.  Buffalo/WNY will not make that cut.

[SoCal Deek]

9 minutes ago, GustheDog33 said:

Buffalo will not get a Final Four NFL Combines or NCAA bowl games.  Those event have minimum requirements for things like hotel rooms within 1 hour of the stadium.  Buffalo/WNY will not make that cut.

I'm not sure that's true anymore. Just look at most of the bowl games on ESPN.  There's nobody at the vast majority of bowl games, right up until the last weekend, when the better teams play in the historically situated games.  Buffalo would easily be granted an earlier bowl game, along with earlier round(s) of the NCAA basketball tournament.

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Peevo said:

 

 

To be honest I haven't seen much on the structure built to negate winds in the stadium.

 

Rainy, windy, and slick conditions are more commonplace than snow in that building.  I don't have the analytics on this, but I think it's hard to argue the wind and rain have been detrimental to the fan experience all season.

 

I honestly think last Sunday was the first dry game of the year.  

 

I know it's outrageously expensive to build a dome, but if you're spending $1.5 billion, why not just spend $3 billion and get guaranteed conditions 8 / 9 games a year?

 

If I were a fan of the Vikings, I'd be happy my team plays in a dome 10 (!) games a year.  It's nice!  I don't honestly understand why this is so controversial.  Every hockey and basketball game is played inside.

 

Nearly every indoor concert I've seen is preferable to the outdoor ones.  This is subjective.  But I prefer a more immersive, intimate experience.

 

Eliminating a negative variable that can affect change in the game is smart, in my opinion.  Poor weather is not an advantage. 

Are you kidding me? Because hockey and basketball are traditionally inside sports... No team has ever had an outside arena in those sports as a home venue

 

Football has over 100 years of

 being played in the elements 

 

And most of our games are not played in terrible weather

Edited December 21, 2021 by Buffalo716

[In Summary]

Being inside on a warm sunny Fall day is criminal to me, but to each their own.  

 

A dome really just continues the direction of the NFL towards becoming an indoor arena league with non-stop passing and fluorescent uniforms that always stay clean.

[LeGOATski]

2 hours ago, Peevo said:

but if you're spending $1.5 billion, why not just spend $3 billion

You're obviously great with money....

 

"I'm gonna buy a car for $30k. Aaah, hell with it! I might as well buy the $60k car!"

12 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Are you kidding me? Because hockey and basketball are traditionally inside sports... No team has ever had an outside arena in those sports as a home venue

 

Football has over 100 years of

 being played in the elements 

 

And most of our games are not played in terrible weather

Not to mention it's necessary to have their playing surfaces indoors for maintenance. Football is played on grass and dirt.

[UConn James]

2 hours ago, Peevo said:

I honestly think last Sunday was the first dry game of the year.  

 

I know it's outrageously expensive to build a dome, but if you're spending $1.5 billion, why not just spend $3 billion and get guaranteed conditions 8 / 9 games a year?

It would absolutely NOT cost $1.5B extra for a dome or retractable roof.
 

Most estimates I’ve seen for retractable are that it would add $300-$500M. It would not add significantly to ticket costs and when factoring in fewer repairs / maintenance over the life of the thing… at that price I just don’t see why this is even an issue for something that will hopefully last 50-60+ years. Protect the investment and make it more usable with a roof that can be closed if you want during the season and then in winter closed to the brutal weather that beats up concrete.

 

Lucas Oil Stadium with retractable cost $900M in today’s dollars ($720M then) for the whole thing ~15 years ago. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by UConn James

[LeGOATski]

56 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Well said. Virtually every single soccer stadium in Europe has 100% of the seats covered and they have twice as many home games as an NFL Team with a season who's entire middle half is played in the dead of winter under really cold and rainy conditions. It's understood that the players are going to get wet...but unless you're sitting in the first two rows, the fans are dry. It's been that way for decades.

And they're going to use ETFE plastic, which makes constructing and maintaining the overhanging structure so much easier. All the new stadiums are using it. This thing is gonna look beautiful and fans will be plenty comfortable.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

 

Hey now, I think there’s still some ongoing high level meetings…

[purple haze]

33 minutes ago, UConn James said:

It would absolutely NOT cost $1.5B extra for a dome or retractable roof.
 

Most estimates I’ve seen for retractable are that it would add $300-$500M. It would not add significantly to ticket costs and when factoring in fewer repairs / maintenance over the life of the thing… at that price I just don’t see why this is even an issue for something that will hopefully last 50-60+ years. Protect the investment and make it more usable with a roof that can be closed if you want during the season and then in winter closed to the brutal weather that beats up concrete.

 

Lucas Oil Stadium with retractable cost $900M in today’s dollars ($720M then) for the whole thing ~15 years ago. 

There are maintenance costs associated with opening and closing the roof.  It’s why you see teams with retractable roofs rarely to never have them open.  

Edited December 21, 2021 by purple haze

[LABILLBACKER]

20 hours ago, Logic said:

I’m fairly certain I read that it WILL be built in such a way that the field and stands are somewhat wind protected, similar to Seattle’s stadium.

Then that's fine. Figure out a clever way of engineering the stadium outer shell to minimize the winds. Let it rain or snow all you want. This won't effect Josh's passes as much as the wind will. Then everyone's happy. And the stadium won't cost 2B+ . Diehards get their snow angels and Josh can complete a deep throw to Diggs without the ball moving 4 different directions....Win...Win

[cba fan]

1 hour ago, GustheDog33 said:

Buffalo will not get a Final Four NFL Combines or NCAA bowl games.  Those event have minimum requirements for things like hotel rooms within 1 hour of the stadium.  Buffalo/WNY will not make that cut.

true, as it is now. But Jax got it by anchoring cruise ships for hotels(only would need a few) Future is unknown. 

What is known is no dome and none of those events i mentioned are possible.

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, purple haze said:

There are maintenance costs associated with opening and closing the roof.  It’s why you see teams with retractable roofs rarely to never have them open.  

Seriously, that's so frustrating. I've gone to baseball games on perfect days where their roofs are closed.

[RochesterLifer]

11 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

There is lots of data out there, regarding *POTENTIAL* Northeast Climate Models. Get off of your lazy ass, and look for them.

 

Yes, there is a great deal of data out there, that projects several different futures. One presidential candidate in 2000 predicted we would all be drowning by now. Looking further back, I remember data projecting the coming ice age,

https://history.aip.org/climate/cycles.htm

 

but please, impress me again by typing the word “science”.

[LeGOATski]

4 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

Yes, there is a great deal of data out there, that projects several different futures. One presidential candidate in 2000 predicted we would all be drowning by now. Looking further back, I remember data projecting the coming ice age,

https://history.aip.org/climate/cycles.htm

 

but please, impress me again by typing the word “science”.

The Yellowstone megavolcano is going to alleviate all of our global warming concerns............

[PromoTheRobot]

8 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

Yes, there is a great deal of data out there, that projects several different futures. One presidential candidate in 2000 predicted we would all be drowning by now. Looking further back, I remember data projecting the coming ice age,

https://history.aip.org/climate/cycles.htm

 

but please, impress me again by typing the word “science”.

 

 What has science ever done for society?

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

6 hours ago, eball said:

 

Yeah, I think they are looking at unique designs to minimize weather impact on fans in particular, if a dome is out of the question.

 

I also think several people are correct that they will avoid the swirling wind situation by having a more enclosed design, and not having half the stadium below ground level. What seemed like genius in 1973 is rather less so now. I look at Lincoln Financial Field and think that is more what the future portends.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

 

We laugh at ol' Dunkirk. But with the border being closed on and off, and the resulting loss of thousands of Canadian fans, is building closer to Rochester and Syracuse such a bad idea?

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Your question answers itself.    Let's say $1 billion of that $1.5 billion is public money.   That's the public paying $1 billion to for the benefit of maybe 100,000 fans who go to games, as well as the several hundred thousand more who want to keep the team in Buffalo.   

 

The next $1.5 billion, to put a dome on the place, just benefits the 100,000 who go to the games.   There are a million other people around the state, and several hundred thousand around western New York, who can rightfully say, "Why aren't you spending that $1.5 billion on me?"   Spending public money to keep the team is one thing; spending it make you more comfortable when you go to the games is something else entirely. 

 

FFS They built entire domed stadiums for $1.2B in the last few years. Why is adding a dome going to cost $1.5B??

[RochesterLifer]

10 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 What has science ever done for society?

Well, it has kept Covid-free, so far. So, there’s that.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

We laugh at ol' Dunkirk. But with the border being closed on and off, and the resulting loss of thousands of Canadian fans, is building closer to Rochester and Syracuse such a bad idea?

For several reasons, I can’t get behind a stadium built that far east of Buffalo. I know it would make your commute a shorter one, but it would dramatically lengthen the commute time for the majority of ticket holders in the Bills’ market, including the 15%-20% of Canadian fans who won’t contend with a closed border (hopefully) by the time the new stadium is ready. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 

FFS They built entire domed stadiums for $1.2B in the last few years. Why is adding a dome going to cost $1.5B??

I don't know.  The guy I responded to said why not just spend the extra $1.5 billion to build a dome.  What do I know about building a stadium?   Ask him?

[PromoTheRobot]

12 minutes ago, K-9 said:

For several reasons, I can’t get behind a stadium built that far east of Buffalo. I know it would make your commute a shorter one, but it would dramatically lengthen the commute time for the majority of ticket holders in the Bills’ market, including the 15%-20% of Canadian fans who won’t contend with a closed border (hopefully) by the time the new stadium is ready. 

 

All I meant was those Canadian fans will be harder to rely on if COVID border restrictions continue to pop in and out. It doesn't matter to me personally. I drive 8 hours. Saving 30 minutes isn't why I suggested this. I'm just saying you have another million+ population in Rochester and nearly a mil in Syracuse. You're losing several hundred thousand fans that used to come from Canada.

[SirAndrew]

14 minutes ago, K-9 said:

For several reasons, I can’t get behind a stadium built that far east of Buffalo. I know it would make your commute a shorter one, but it would dramatically lengthen the commute time for the majority of ticket holders in the Bills’ market, including the 15%-20% of Canadian fans who won’t contend with a closed border (hopefully) by the time the new stadium is ready. 

The stadium in OP is a little over an hour drive from the Rochester area. Regardless of how many ticket holders are from Rochester, that’s not a significant distance. There’s plenty of NFL markets where it takes an hour to drive from suburbs to the stadium. Syracuse is extremely inconsequential, I’m willing to guess the percentage of season ticket holders from that area is relatively small. The Syracuse folks who do make the drive clearly aren’t worried about it. These are the Buffalo Bills, fans in other areas of NY should never factor into the decision making for building a stadium. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Im curious as to why they want smaller stadiums, dont you want more people there ?? Are they pricing fans out and just want rich people there.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

We laugh at ol' Dunkirk. But with the border being closed on and off, and the resulting loss of thousands of Canadian fans, is building closer to Rochester and Syracuse such a bad idea?

 

 

 

So you're saying Letchworth is the new location 😂😂

 

 

[K-9]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

All I meant was those Canadian fans will be harder to rely on if COVID border restrictions continue to pop in and out. It doesn't matter to me personally. I drive 8 hours. Saving 30 minutes isn't why I suggested this. I'm just saying you have another million+ population in Rochester and nearly a mil in Syracuse. You're losing several hundred thousand fans that used to come from Canada.

Well Promo, I’m afraid that if we are still having COVID issues in 5+ years, then I fear we are gonna have far bigger issues than where the stadium is located. 
 

The Bills already draw from a 1.2m population in their metro area, plus that additional 15%-20% in southern Ontario, plus Rochester. I think they’d stand to lose more than they’d stand to gain by moving so far east of their current WNY and southern Ontario markets. 

[PromoTheRobot]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

I'm curious as to why they want smaller stadiums, don't you want more people there ?? Are they pricing fans out and just want rich people there.

 

 

 

Blame TV for making the at-home experience so good.  Especially if they insist on an open-air stadium. Here we are in a playoff chase, after making the playoffs 3 times the last 4 years, and you can buy tickets to the last 3 games for under $20! The excuse used to be the playoff drought. But really most people don't want to sit outside in December and January.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

 

So you're saying Letchworth is the new location 😂😂

 

 

 

 

Works for me, just a half hr drive 👍👍

 

 

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Blame TV for making the at-home experience so good.  Especially if they insist on an open-air stadium. Here we are in a playoff chase, after making the playoffs 3 times the last 4 years, and you can buy tickets to the last 3 games for under $20! The excuse used to be the playoff drought. But really most people don't want to sit outside in December and January.

 

You really think its the weather ?? People getting soft 

 

I just figured the tickets cost a million bucks and people cant afford it.

 

 

 

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Blame TV for making the at-home experience so good.  Especially if they insist on an open-air stadium. Here we are in a playoff chase, after making the playoffs 3 times the last 4 years, and you can buy tickets to the last 3 games for under $20! The excuse used to be the playoff drought. But really most people don't want to sit outside in December and January.

We tend to forget that even back in our SB years, there were times when we didn’t sell out a home playoff game in January. 

[PromoTheRobot]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

You really think its the weather ?? People getting soft 

 

 

People get OLD!

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

We tend to forget that even back in our SB years, there were times when we didn’t sell out a home playoff game in January. 

 

Fans got spoiled and didn't want to go see some wildcard team take on Houston.

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

We tend to forget that even back in our SB years, there were times when we didn’t sell out a home playoff game in January. 

 

Which is why not building a dome is insane to me.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

People get OLD!

 

 

😂😂, yeah all the youngsters are moving out (they're still soft tho 😁😁)

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Fans got spoiled and didn't want to go see some wildcard team take on Houston.

 

 

 

Oh come on. We always have an excuse. That Houston comeback game that didn't sell out, the Bills lost to the Oilers in the final game of the regular season.  If it was people not wanting to see "just a wild card team" that's even worse than not wanting to sit outside.  We were a 2-time SB team, FFS!

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Oh come on. We always have an excuse. That Houston comeback game that didn't sell out, the Bills lost to the Oilers in the final game of the regular season.  If it was people not wanting to see "just a wild card team" that's even worse than not wanting to sit outside.  We were a 2-time SB team, FFS!

 

its true though

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

According to PSE the majority of fans in their study want Orchard Park, open air. Not a vocal minority at all. 

 

Pegula also prefers that and said so early in his tenure as owner.

 

Also, winter weather does not stop the passing game. 

 

Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers. All cold weather QBs playing in weather as bad or worse than Buffalo. 

 

Then there was the high flying Bills offense in the 90s. Cold and snow didn't stop a 51-3 beatdown of the Raiders in the AFC title game in Orchard Park.

 

Football belongs outdoors, and the idea that it disadvantages the passing game on any kind of consistent basis is demonstrably false. The Bills hardly ever play snow games at home anyway. 

 

It's not about a competitive advantage. It's about the fact that domes suck. 

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, TheFunPolice said:

According to PSE the majority of fans in their study want Orchard Park, open air. Not a vocal minority at all. 

 

Pegula also prefers that and said so early in his tenure as owner.

 

 

 

 

 

And yet he watches games from a heated luxury suite.