Bills trading Daryll Johnson to the Panthers for 6th rd pick

[Hapless Bills Fan]

38 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

Yes, but Shaq will play 40% of your defensive snaps at a premium position.  He is overpaid compared to the contract, but he earned that contract by at least putting up 1 good year.  
 

Johnson as a late 7th round pick has nearly given nothing on the defensive side, but did some nice things on special teams. 

 

On the "Bills think he gave something" side: Johnson had 44%, 40%, and 40% of the snaps in the last 3 games of last season.  So the Bills clearly felt he had something to give on the defensive side.

 

On the opposite side, his snaps got cut to 20%, inactive, and 26% during the playoffs.  So when it was "win or go home" there was someone else they preferred to have out there AND the conclusion was "DL was not good enough"

 

You can't improve something by keeping it the same, which is sometimes what it looks as though the Bills want to do

[BornAgainBillsFan]

2 hours ago, golfball323 said:

How is this a discussion?

 

People here have a preference over the coach and gm who just took us to a conference championship? The guys who get to see him work every day, his daily one on ones, work ethic, culture fit with the team, etc... Sorry they didn't include you in the discussion.

 

Flipping a 7th rounder ST specialist for a 6th is a steal. Go get the next guy in 2022. 

 

Bam may have started his Bills career as a 7th rounder, but he ended it as a major contributor to all 4 phases of special teams.

 

I wish he could've been kept on the roster. But if he couldn't, it feels like he was worth more than a 6th rounder at this point. That's kinda where I'm at. It's just a feeling that we didn't get enough.

[Coach Tuesday]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

On the "Bills think he gave something" side: Johnson had 44%, 40%, and 40% of the snaps in the last 3 games of last season.  So the Bills clearly felt he had something to give on the defensive side.

 

On the opposite side, his snaps got cut to 20%, inactive, and 26% during the playoffs.  So when it was "win or go home" there was someone else they preferred to have out there AND the conclusion was "DL was not good enough"

 

You can't improve something by keeping it the same, which is sometimes what it looks as though the Bills want to do

 

Part of that might have been the opponents.  Johnson is notoriously bad at keeping the edge, something he was still doing this preseason from what I saw - he gets sucked inside very easily and gives up contain.  Like almost every time.  You can't do that against teams like Baltimore and KC who know how to exploit it.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Coach Tuesday

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

Some special teams players ARE interchangeable, it’s true. 
 

The really good ones, though, add value to your kick and punt units — both coverage and return. It’s why guys like Taiwan Jones, Tyler Matakevich, and Matthew Slater have 10 year careers in the NFL.

If the really good special teams players of the league were so easily replaceable, you’d think they wouldn’t have such career longevity, since they often don’t contribute much on offense or defense.

 

Im not saying Bam was in that “really good” tier, necessarily, though recent comments by Beane and Farwell indicate that he may be. I’m just saying that in a game that often features small margins of victory, field position and special teams play matter, and Bam helped in those areas.

 

 

 

 

I agree that there are a small handful, and guys like Slater and Tasker also operate like coaches out there on the field, which ensures their longevity and gives them a bit of extra value. But Daryl Johnson ... is not that guy.  He's fine at ST, but he's essentially interchangeable. 

[Just Joshin']

1 hour ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

 

My bet: Bobby Hart to the Bears for a 7th

The Bills can just cut Hart, don't need to give Chicago a draft pick to get rid of him.

20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

On the "Bills think he gave something" side: Johnson had 44%, 40%, and 40% of the snaps in the last 3 games of last season.  So the Bills clearly felt he had something to give on the defensive side.

 

On the opposite side, his snaps got cut to 20%, inactive, and 26% during the playoffs.  So when it was "win or go home" there was someone else they preferred to have out there AND the conclusion was "DL was not good enough"

 

You can't improve something by keeping it the same, which is sometimes what it looks as though the Bills want to do

Another way to look at it.....they had so much regard for his DE play they drafted 2 and signed 1 player at his position.

 

Personally I thought he was going to be kept for the future but the Bills obviously did not want to keep 7 DEs.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is fewer snaps, I get that, but special teams errors can be momentum swings they can be easy scores, they are stolen possessions. Just looking at the numbers and saying "ah well it isn't a third of the game numerically" misses the point for me. Nobody is arguing it is as important as offense or defense but it isn't an after thought and if you treat it like that you will suffer. And it isn't just me that thinks this.... a lot of the best coaches in the NFL do too. I don't have the Bills 2018 special team yards given up to hand but it was a lot and it hurt the team. Equally I know Roberts had the best overall return numbers across two disciplines in the league last year. That helped the team.

I get all that, but big errors on offense and defense are major momentum swings too. I don't think STs have any claim to pre-eminence when it comes to momentum-shifting plays. Indeed, on the vast majority of ST plays, nothing significant happens. As a number of others have pointed out, the Bills are not lacking in decent-to-good special teams players, but most ST players even on the best units are truly interchangeable. 

 

Since 2015 -- the beginning of the Rex era -- the Bills have one legit kick return for a TD (McKenzie last season). That's one in six years. (I'm not giving Hyde credit for his 2019 onside kick return vs. Miami in garbage time because it was really dumb and a freak play to boot. If he had taken a knee, the game would have ended. Instead, the Bills D had to go back on the field in garbage time and play another half dozen plays vs. a gunslinging Fitz at the risk of a needless injury.)  

Edited August 30, 2021 by dave mcbride

[freddyjj]

So my two cents here. 

1. Andre Smith takes Bam's ST snaps
2. Efe Obada has more NFL game experience at DE than Bam
3. Obada has also played inside on DL and is stronger than Bam.  Big advantage 
4. Obada auditioning for next year.  
5. Hughes and Addison likely gone in 2022.  So Groot, AJ and Boogie are givens going forward. 

[Dr. K]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is fewer snaps, I get that, but special teams errors can be momentum swings they can be easy scores, they are stolen possessions. Just looking at the numbers and saying "ah well it isn't a third of the game numerically" misses the point for me. Nobody is arguing it is as important as offense or defense but it isn't an after thought and if you treat it like that you will suffer. And it isn't just me that thinks this.... a lot of the best coaches in the NFL do too. I don't have the Bills 2018 special team yards given up to hand but it was a lot and it hurt the team. Equally I know Roberts had the best overall return numbers across two disciplines in the league last year. That helped the team.

The 2010 Chargers led the league in offense and defense and yet missed the playoffs because their special teams were so abominable. They allowed three kickoff returns for touchdowns, one punt return touchdown, and four blocked punts and finished 9-7.. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Dr. K

[First Round Bust]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Interesting theory from Joe:

 

two rookies - two second year sophomores in the league -five nfl vets who have been with us 1-2 year max - and Taiwan and Siran  are your most experienced Bills ST going on third years more or less...

 

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

[Putin]

1 hour ago, Draconator said:

 

I enjoy a personal pizza as anyone else but please no more trades with the panthers 

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I disagree that he wasn't the guy they wanted to move. If they were getting maybe a 3rd or a 4th or something, then yeah, make the trade even if it makes your lineup a bit weaker. For a 6th, though? I don't think so. It's not a big enough return to get you to get rid of a guy you'd like to keep, IMO.

 

If you are not keeping 7 DEs and you are getting rid of either Johnson or Obada and you can get a pick back for Johnson rather than cutting him - isn’t that the smart move.

 

We would have to see, but one of the 3 was getting cut and I don’t think they were getting a bunch of offers for the other 2 - so that drives the decision you have to make.  
 

Now - unfortunately we will never know where they would have gone if no offer materialized because at least one deal did come about for Johnson - so all we know is the Bills we’re willing to part with him for a price.

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, BornAgainBillsFan said:

 

Bam may have started his Bills career as a 7th rounder, but he ended it as a major contributor to all 4 phases of special teams.

 

I wish he could've been kept on the roster. But if he couldn't, it feels like he was worth more than a 6th rounder at this point. That's kinda where I'm at. It's just a feeling that we didn't get enough.

That’s a testament to the Bills coaching staff because he didn’t even play ST in college. Anyway, teams don’t give up 5th rounders for ST guys. The Bills got the same return for him as the Texans got for Shaq Lawson.  

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Again, keep Johnson and don't hand Taiwan Jones a roster spot. 

You keep saying this nonsense, implying Taiwan doesn’t do anything to earn his roster spot year after year. It doesn’t sound any smarter the second time you say it.

[rayray808]

The 6 will end up going to Philly for Zack Ertz

[unbillievable]

7 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

You keep saying this nonsense, implying Taiwan doesn’t do anything to earn his roster spot year after year. It doesn’t sound any smarter the second time you say it.

 

[billsfan89]

Bills clear the logjam at DE a little bit and pocket a late round pick for their troubles. Still would not be shocked to see Addison traded if the right move is there but I think this move means they are carrying 6 DE’s and 4 DT’s.

[Coach Tuesday]

28 minutes ago, rayray808 said:

The 6 will end up going to Philly for Zack Ertz

Let me guess, your “cousin” again as the source?  

[ColoradoBills]

Wow I seen this thread before I left this morning and now it's 11 pages.

Anyone think that maybe the STs will have more LBs on them this year (like they are suppose to be) instead of a DE?

 

If Taiwan Jones is cut tomorrow this board might melt down.

[billybrew1]

I think if we want to imagine who will be our WRs in the near future with Beasley and Sanders gone, I'd look to Stevenson and Hodgins well before Kumerow. Kumerow's time is now. When our WRs get beat up (and they will) Kumerow will start to be targeted. The great thing about Jake is he can remain active as a ST demon. He is also great for setting up blocks on runs, screens, and downfield blocking assignments..... Daboll knows best.

[Coastie]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

This is not that surprising even with him on the team we Drafted defensive ends one and two this year

Man, I had not thought about it that way but hard to argue with that conclusion.