GunnerBill Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 9 hours ago, ArtVandalay said: I'm not, it is just that many fans like yourself refuse to be objective and critical of players when deserved. Pro Football Focus grading agrees with me. Brandon Beane agrees with me as well which is why he went ahead and restructured his deal to void the final (3rd) year of his deal before the season. So it's not ridiculous the least bit. Brandon Beane agreed 2020 was not a good year of play from Addison and hence he made him take a pay cut to stay as well as voiding his 3rd year. He was right. Addison was bad last year. He got 5 sacks but on only 11 pressures. He turned the few opportunities he got into production, good for him, but his play was generally below par hence the small number of pressures. He has more than doubled his pressures in 2021 despite playing considerably fewer snaps. He has definitely played better this year. He has had a solid year. Not saying he is irreplaceable or anything but his play has improved by any metric - including - if you go in for that kind of thing, his PFF grade. They had him playing at "replacement level" in 2020 and "rotational / backup player" in 2021. Which is about right IMO. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Chandler's Hands Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 44 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said: I understand. The comparison should be that we would have $7mill LESS cap space if we kept him. Maybe his leaving might help with comp picks? The Bills will have however much cap space less based on what he signs for, if they resign him. It doesn't have to be $7M. If Hughes signs with another team, that adds in to the comp pick calculation but the picks are awarded on a net in/out basis, so it would depend on many other things like how many FA's the Bills sign, do other Bills players sign elsewhere, how much do their contracts count in the calculation, and how do the Patriots get an extra 3rd rounder out of the whole thing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 21 hours ago, ArtVandalay said: He's invisible on the field, awful, little pressure, and also grades out poorly on PFF so my eyes don't lie. With the draft picks we have invested those kids will make you forget him in a hurry. He's a vastly overpaid rotational player hence why they essentially terminated his contract this offseason after signing him just the year prior. I trust PFF grades about as much as I trust QBR for evaluating QB performance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandalay Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 10 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: OMG dude. I have never said he was great. You're using Pro Football Focus as evidence lol? Brandon Beane agrees with you? If he agreed with you, then he would have cut him straight up and not just done a restructure lol. Does Sean McDermott agree with you? He plays 46% of the snaps at DE. Why would McDermott play a guy that much who is invisible and worthless? Why did he never healthy scratch him? Yes, it's one of the most ridiculous things I've read on here. He couldn't outright release him, too much dead money. So they did the next best thing and restructured and ripped up the 3rd year. I'm using PFF grading as support yes, in conjuction with my own observations and Beane's actions. You just said yourself this $10 MM man plays less than half the snaps, that's a horrible investment. The guy has no impact on the field he stonewalled pretty consistently, his athleticism poor, he's cooked. We won't skip a beat without him and we will free up a bunch of money. He's gone next year and deserving so. You're living in your own world will every Bill is a good player, many fans do this and refuse to be objective and critical of their own players. Not every player on the team is a good contributor. 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Brandon Beane agreed 2020 was not a good year of play from Addison and hence he made him take a pay cut to stay as well as voiding his 3rd year. He was right. Addison was bad last year. He got 5 sacks but on only 11 pressures. He turned the few opportunities he got into production, good for him, but his play was generally below par hence the small number of pressures. He has more than doubled his pressures in 2021 despite playing considerably fewer snaps. He has definitely played better this year. He has had a solid year. Not saying he is irreplaceable or anything but his play has improved by any metric - including - if you go in for that kind of thing, his PFF grade. They had him playing at "replacement level" in 2020 and "rotational / backup player" in 2021. Which is about right IMO. A rotational backup for a guy you shell out $10 MM per year to is horrendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said: A rotational backup for a guy you shell out $10 MM per year to is horrendous. Agree. You are preaching to the converted here. I was an outspoken critic of the signing the moment it happened. He was a player on the decline. He had got steadily less effective his last two years on the Panthers and that trend continued his first year here. He has reversed the trend a bit this year and I think that might be a case of fewer snaps keeping his old legs fresher and allowing him to be more impactful when on the field - but you won't get any debate from me that is still not worth what the Bills gave him. They only gave him another $5m this year (real cash terms) though. The $14m we had given him in real cash terms last year was a sunken cost at that point. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, ArtVandalay said: He couldn't outright release him, too much dead money. So they did the next best thing and restructured and ripped up the 3rd year. I'm using PFF grading as support yes, in conjuction with my own observations and Beane's actions. You just said yourself this $10 MM man plays less than half the snaps, that's a horrible investment. The guy has no impact on the field he stonewalled pretty consistently, his athleticism poor, he's cooked. We won't skip a beat without him and we will free up a bunch of money. He's gone next year and deserving so. You're living in your own world will every Bill is a good player, many fans do this and refuse to be objective and critical of their own players. Not every player on the team is a good contributor. A rotational backup for a guy you shell out $10 MM per year to is horrendous. LOL what is wrong with you? Gunner laid it out perfectly for you about this year but you don't like logic or context. If he didn't take a paycut, he would have been cut. If he refused, do we keep him lol? The option to cut him was there and they didn't. He didn't live up to his contract which he why they reduced it. I criticize players all the time but you're ridiculous with it. PFF has Kirk Cousins rated above Patrick Mahomes. So I guess since PFF said it, Cousins > Mahomes right? He's got 7 sacks and his pressure rate doubled with less snaps. "He's invisible out there!!". If he is as bad as you say he is...why did McDermott continue playing him? Why was he not last? Here's our snap count %. Hughes - 51% Rousseau- 49% Addison - 45% Obada - 22% AJ - 30% Boogie - 19% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandalay Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Agree. You are preaching to the converted here. I was an outspoken critic of the signing the moment it happened. He was a player on the decline. He had got steadily less effective his last two years on the Panthers and that trend continued his first year here. He has reversed the trend a bit this year and I think that might be a case of fewer snaps keeping his old legs fresher and allowing him to be more impactful when on the field - but you won't get any debate from me that is still not worth what the Bills gave him. They only gave him another $5m this year (real cash terms) though. The $14m we had given him in real cash terms last year was a sunken cost at that point. I hear you, as for the money his cap figure this year is still 8.2 MM, which is what matters from a team building standpoint, he gets 5.9 MM in cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandalay Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: LOL what is wrong with you? Gunner laid it out perfectly for you about this year but you don't like logic or context. If he didn't take a paycut, he would have been cut. If he refused, do we keep him lol? The option to cut him was there and they didn't. He didn't live up to his contract which he why they reduced it. I criticize players all the time but you're ridiculous with it. PFF has Kirk Cousins rated above Patrick Mahomes. So I guess since PFF said it, Cousins > Mahomes right? He's got 7 sacks and his pressure rate doubled with less snaps. "He's invisible out there!!". If he is as bad as you say he is...why did McDermott continue playing him? Why was he not last? Here's our snap count %. Hughes - 51% Rousseau- 49% Addison - 45% Obada - 22% AJ - 30% Boogie - 19% There was too much dead money to cut him. That's why the restructured and tore up the 3rd year. They're paying 10 MM per year to a guy playing 45% of snaps and less QB hits than the guy that is playing 22% and you think this is good? He's overpaid and he stinks. That's why he makes little impact, why PFF grades him poorly, and why Beane tore up his 3rd year. That money would be much better spent on the OLine... or a RB... or anywhere else. Sorry you are having such a difficult time with this. You have a different opinion of him, that's cool -- but we won't miss him nor his contract next year when he's playing for another team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said: There was too much dead money to cut him. That's why the restructured and tore up the 3rd year. They're paying 10 MM per year to a guy playing 45% of snaps and less QB hits than the guy that is playing 22% and you think this is good? He's overpaid and he stinks. That's why he makes little impact, why PFF grades him poorly, and why Beane tore up his 3rd year. That money would be much better spent on the OLine... or a RB... or anywhere else. Sorry you are having such a difficult time with this. You have a different opinion of him, that's cool -- but we won't miss him nor his contract next year when he's playing for another team. LOL dude. I’m having a difficult time with this? What do you think would have happened if he refused the paycut? I want to hear your answer. Also answer this. Why did McDermott play him more than the guy with 22% even with more pressures? Maybe, just maybe, he felt Addison was producing more?? Has that entered your thick head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 27 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said: I hear you, as for the money his cap figure this year is still 8.2 MM, which is what matters from a team building standpoint, he gets 5.9 MM in cash. You are right sorry $5.9m cash. I'd read it as $4.9m earlier. The cap hit is cos of the sunken cost though. They were on the hook for the difference $2.3m whether he was here or not. The question is have they got $5.9m production out of him this year for keeping him here? I think they probably have (or close to anyway). Don't get me wrong I was still against it as a signing and overall it han't worked out. Has the decision last spring to keep him with the paycut worked out? That is just about a yes from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandalay Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: You are right sorry $5.9m cash. I'd read it as $4.9m earlier. The cap hit is cos of the sunken cost though. They were on the hook for the difference $2.3m whether he was here or not. The question is have they got $5.9m production out of him this year for keeping him here? I think they probably have (or close to anyway). Don't get me wrong I was still against it as a signing and overall it han't worked out. Has the decision last spring to keep him with the paycut worked out? That is just about a yes from me. $8.2 MM production is what they need, because that's how much he cost from a team building perspective. We don't have enough info on the org to assess cash flows, fans shouldn't care about cash spending, it's the cap figure that affects the on field product. But no, we didn't get our $10 MM cap figure in production last year, we didn't get enough for $8 MM this year, and we are eating $2 MM cap next year. Total loss. It was a bad deal, it happens... good news is he won't be missed next year and we can put that money to use on the OLine or in the backfield, where it would have been helpful this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, ArtVandalay said: $8.2 MM production is what they need, because that's how much he cost from a team building perspective. We don't have enough info on the org to assess cash flows, fans shouldn't care about cash spending, it's the cap figure that affects the on field product. But no, we didn't get our $10 MM cap figure in production last year, we didn't get enough for $8 MM this year, and we are eating $2 MM cap next year. Total loss. It was a bad deal, it happens... good news is he won't be missed next year and we can put that money to use on the OLine or in the backfield, where it would have been helpful this year. I disagree somewhat. On the subject of was signing him a bad move? I agree, yes it was. I said it at the time and I stand by it. Bad move, bad contract. But when you are judging the second decision - the decision to keep him with a pay cut last spring - a move I also opposed at the time then the only relevant question is did the Bills get sufficient production relative to the additional non-sunk cost money they paid him in 2021? Because had they cut him and had to account $2.3m on the cap this year they'd have been accounting for $2.3m for zero production. So that is already baked in. The decision to keep him this year cost them $5.9m. Did they get sufficient production for that money? I think it is close but all things considered I'd say just about I think they did. So the original decision to sign him? Hated it then, hate it now. Proven wrong move. The decision last spring to keep him on a pay cut? Didn't like it then, am pretty ambiguous now, but think he just about justified it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalftimeAdjustment Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Can someone say something that will get this thread locked? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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