Dion Dawkins “not close to where he needs to be to help us”

[eball]

Good lord you people like to speculate and make presumptions about stuff you know nothing about. 
 

Oh wait, that happens all the time around here. Never mind. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I would guess the opposite 

I don't know. 

 

It's just odd for him to say Dawkins can't help us because he's not where he needs to be. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The wording makes me think Dawkins is overweight. 

 

Well....he appears heavier than the Bills, perhaps, would like him.

But he came to OTAs heavier and did full practices and no comments were made about him "being a long way from where he can play and help us", so....

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well....he appears heavier than the Bills, perhaps, would like him.

But he came to OTAs heavier and did full practices and no comments were made about him "being a long way from where he can play and help us", so....

Probably because it was OTA. 

[DieselUSMC0451]

7 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

If he's fully recovered, which seems to be the case (hence activated), no reason Dion can't get his conditioning level back to normal in 2 weeks.  Put us at August 29th and plenty of time for week 1.

A lot of long term issues with this Virus, the severity and length is Unique to each person. My wife’s mother died last September from COVID, being perfectly healthy and never been in the hospital ever before this. 
 

I was training for the MURPH for a fundraiser with the Navy Seal vets in Florida. Was running 7 min miles with the 20 lbs vest. Got covid pretty bad. A month after being “cleared” I still couldn’t even finish a .25 of a mile, running very slow and no vest. 3 weeks after that I was back in the hospital with inflammation of the heart. This thing is no joke.

 

Could be very possible that he’s out for an extended period of time or could be back soon, just depends on how the virus effected him. 

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, MJS said:

We don't know how sick he was or wasn't. It's all conjecture to this point. Having symptoms could mean a lot of different things.

 

 

We have some indicators. He's missed two weeks. That's more than most have missed.

 

It's been announced that he's not ready or even close now. Most who've come back from COVID have not had that kind of announcement. That's not proof but it certainly is evidentiary that he had a bit more serious case than many have had. Not that surprising now that the Delta variant is out there now, while last year guys didn't have to deal with that.

 

 

6 hours ago, Sundancer said:

 

If he had lingering Covid stuff, McD would not have called him out.. 

 

If he came in fat and out of shape, McD calls him out. 

 

It's the later. Guaranteed. 

 

 

Guesses and guarantees are not the same thing.

 

As many have said here, not being vaccinated could very easily have McD sending messages. We don't know for sure who's vaccinated and who's not, but the team likely knows. Messages here might make an awful lot of sense even if he came in in great shape before getting sick.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Buffalo_Stampede]

58 minutes ago, eball said:

Good lord you people like to speculate and make presumptions about stuff you know nothing about. 
 

Oh wait, that happens all the time around here. Never mind. 

Quote

 

"He’s not close to where he needs to be to play and help us," McDermott said Sunday. "He’s got a long road here. He’s going to control what he can control and so are we. He's going to continue to work hard to get himself back. This is Week 4 of training camp, so he’s missed a lot of time."

 

"That’s the benefit of Dion not being here and Spencer getting the reps," McDermott said. "Those reps are valuable. I thought Spencer did a really good job in the game the other day."

 

 

These comments are insensitive from McDermott. The guy just returned from Covid and he's like Dawkins can control what he can control and so can we. He can't help us now but it was good for his backup to get reps. 

 

I don't even think Belichick would be that cold. 

 

Unless he's disappointed he didn't get vaccinated or whatever. I don't know. But he's obviously telling Dawkins basically the show goes on with or without you. 

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We are in Deep Kim Chee without Dawkins.

 

 

 

Yeah. Hart appeared to be brought in as the security blanket for potential problems like this. Turns out I don't feel all that secure.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

And none of that necessarily applies to Dawkins. Using three or four examples is far from statistically significant. They are just anecdotes. For every one of those there are others who had mild symptoms and were able to get back to football quickly. Or who were completely asymptomatic.

 

We don't know the situation with Dawkins. McDermott could have been speaking purely from a football and conditioning standpoint, not a health standpoint.

He cited examples of a few players who had a tough time coming back. How does that specifically relate to Dawkins? It's a possibility for sure, but nobody knows. Everyone is guessing.

 

Correct.  It's a possibility.  It's not known.  We don't even know when exactly Dawkins tested positive, just that he was placed on the list when the list started, at the beginning of camp.  The point is, these lasting issues do occur sometimes, even for guys who weren't that sick. 

 

And even if he doesn't have an issue he's been unavailable for almost 3 weeks and now longer while he conditions.  3 weeks vs. 5 days is a huge concern, especially with key Bills players making a public issue of being unvaccinated.  It's enough to make a coach pull his hair. (Oh...Wait)

 

I, like you (because you're here), signed on to the agreement to not talk Covid-19 on the main board, so per that agreement Football/Sport relevant anecdotes is what we're going to get.  Put down the statistically significant and step away; given the small number of players who did get Covid last season and given their right to medical privacy, anecdotes from players who personally chose to share medical information is what we have.  Doesn't mean it's smart to discount or ignore it, especially when there may be *ahem* studies of statistically significant numbers out there saying this isn't some fluke.

 

15 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Probably because it was OTA. 

 

Fair.

[BillMafia716ix]

Sounds like too me that means he’s out of shape.

[Punching Bag]

49 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

We have some indicators. He's missed two weeks. That's more than most have missed.

 

It's been announced that he's not ready or even close now. Most who've come back from COVID have not had that kind of announcement. That's not proof but it certainly is evidentiary that he had a bit more serious case than many have had. Not that surprising now that the Delta variant is out there now, while last year guys didn't have to deal with that.

 

 

Is it possible he is milking this so he does not need to do training camp practices and preseason games.

He went thru season last year without preseason games and may not feel need for them this year.

Also with training camp practices there is only so much practice time and with so many new players on line he may want them to get the time.

Much of medicine is not science but art and doctors get feedback from patents for much of their diagnoses.

 

There are also rules changes requiring penalties for missing training camp absences and preseason games missed but it does not apply to players under medical care.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-why-holding-out-during-training-camp-is-no-longer-a-bargaining-tool-for-todays-nfl-stars/

[Thurman#1]

29 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Is it possible he is milking this so he does not need to do training camp practices and preseason games.

He went thru season last year without preseason games and may not feel need for them this year.

Also with training camp practices there is only so much practice time and with so many new players on line he may want them to get the time.

Much of medicine is not science but art and doctors get feedback from patents for much of their diagnoses.

 

There are also rules changes requiring penalties for missing training camp absences and preseason games missed but it does not apply to players under medical care.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-why-holding-out-during-training-camp-is-no-longer-a-bargaining-tool-for-todays-nfl-stars/

 

 

Limeaid, that's a reasonable question, I think. That kind of thing has certainly happened a lot in the NFL and also in Buffalo in the old days. Bruce Smith, certainly, but many others.

 

That said, I think the answer is a clear "no." Dawkins bought into the process as has this team, really, and you can't improve every day when you're not practicing. He's seen in his own career what happens when he doesn't go all in, he saw that during his second year and publicly owned up to it and committed to changing. He's not breaking any rules, but that's not the issue. The issue is whether he's giving it all and whether he believes that's what he needs and wants to do.

 

Bruce's teammates knew he was dogging it. They just didn't care. Today's Bills are behind a different philosophy, and today's training camp isn't comparable to the old days of two-a-days and no rules on padded practices and so on.

 

This group would know or very clearly suspect what Dawkins was doing. This locker room would not accept that kind of behavior the way they did in the old days, as it would essentially mean, "Yeah, you guys need to improve 1% every day, but me, I'm good. I'm there." It's not the way this team rides.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Thurman#1

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

While a solid player there, Williams is strictly a right tackle. He has almost 0 position flexibility.

 

Yea he tried left tackle in Carolina and it was not a success.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Is it possible he is milking this so he does not need to do training camp practices and preseason games.

unlikely imo

[DCofNC]

15 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

I think it's all cardio and won't be surprised if he misses week 1.

Anybody laughing at this hasn’t dealt w Covid.  It took me 3 weeks to be able to get my normal lung capacity back after the rest of the symptoms went away.  I had a mild symptom case, but it was a slow road to full recovery.  I was just trying to get back to my normal gym routine, not compete against the most elite athletes in the world.

[fergie's ire]

7 hours ago, DieselUSMC0451 said:

A lot of long term issues with this Virus, the severity and length is Unique to each person. My wife’s mother died last September from COVID, being perfectly healthy and never been in the hospital ever before this. 
 

I was training for the MURPH for a fundraiser with the Navy Seal vets in Florida. Was running 7 min miles with the 20 lbs vest. Got covid pretty bad. A month after being “cleared” I still couldn’t even finish a .25 of a mile, running very slow and no vest. 3 weeks after that I was back in the hospital with inflammation of the heart. This thing is no joke.

 

Could be very possible that he’s out for an extended period of time or could be back soon, just depends on how the virus effected him. 

My wife had it over a year ago and is entering a respiratory rehab program next week because her lungs never got back to normal.  Yeah, many do have long term effects so lets hope Snowman is not one of those.

[BarleyNY]

13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's not long-haul and not going to explain the diff. here,

 

But yes, he probably does have some lingering effects.   For example Myles Garrett said he had lasting pulmonary symptoms and needed to work with a pulmonologist and was still getting out of breath for months; Von Miller (who caught during off-season) said it took him a while to get his conditioning back and was rough for a while.  Dawson Knox said he was really winded the first week+ or so back.  Some top athletes (Olympic rowers) who had Covid said it dropped them back to the ergometer level of a talented HS student for about a month. 

 

Not all that many NFL players had Covid during the season.  The NFL did a really good job last year.  And of course if recovery takes a while during the off-season, we don't know.

 

 

Covid only knocked Garrett out of action for two games, but he looked like a shell of himself the rest the season.  As mentioned above it took him a whole offseason with specialists and a ton of hard work to get himself all the way back to where he was pre-Covid.

 

Obviously we don’t know if Dawkins is in a similar situation or not, but it’s my concern that he is.  And reading what McDermott said about where he is right now does not alleviate any of that concern. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by BarleyNY

[DCofNC]

5 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Covid only knocked Garrett out of action for two games, but he looked like a shell of himself the rest the season.  As mentioned above it took him a whole offseason with specialists and a ton of hard work to get himself all the way back to what he was.  Obviously we don’t know if Dawkins is in a similar situation or not, but it’s my concern that he is.  And reading what McDermott said about where he is right now does not alleviate any of that concern. 

This was my point, I’m FAR from an athlete of their level and I struggled to just get back to “normal”.  Covid is real, regardless of your views about it, ideas on the vax etc.  , it is miserable crap.  I couldn’t believe it took some of these athletes so long to return to action, then I got it and yeah, I get it now.  It’s not as simple as the flu, it can linger for what seems like forever.

[Locomark]

Let’s just hope Dion isn’t going to need months to get his wind back because this team will need to trade a serious asset to bring in a real tackle should he not be ready for the season’s first month. 

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

This was my point, I’m FAR from an athlete of their level and I struggled to just get back to “normal”.  Covid is real, regardless of your views about it, ideas on the vax etc.  , it is miserable crap.  I couldn’t believe it took some of these athletes so long to return to action, then I got it and yeah, I get it now.  It’s not as simple as the flu, it can linger for what seems like forever.

 

Hope you are back to something like yourself DC. I know my mother (who came pretty close to losing her life to it) still feels 18 months on that she is not back to 100%. It has had some really strange effects like she now can't stand the taste of red wine where before she would drink plenty of the stuff, but it also still disrupts her sleep (which they have put down to PTSD from the ventilator) and has left her with some scarring on the lungs which cause occasional discomfort. 

[Boxcar]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hmm. Yea I wonder if this "he is a long way away" is partly McDermott sending a message to the team to say if you are unvacced and you get it then you do not gey your spot back automatically. You have to earn it back. Am I mad to think that is what could be behind this?

You sure mined a lot out of a small quote. I'm pretty sure Dion has his spot secured. I'm also pretty sure that even vaccinated people can have bad bouts of Covid, so leaping to that is divisive and unhelpful. It would be better if people said "I don't know what the deal is" because they don't.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Boxcar said:

You sure mined a lot out of a small quote. I'm pretty sure Dion has his spot secured. I'm also pretty sure that even vaccinated people can have bad bouts of Covid, so leaping to that is divisive and unhelpful. It would be better if people said "I don't know what the deal is" because they don't.

 

I never pretended it was anything other than speculation but McDermott has been crystal clear where he stands on the vaccination issue and I don't think it is unreasonable to speculate on how that influences his response to incidents like this. It is unusual for him to be so overt on an issue in his pressers.

[RangerDave]

13 hours ago, eball said:

I looked at the first couple of pages of this thread and all I can say is that @dpberr seems to have a vomiting problem.  Not sure what that’s all about.

I have a friend who knows someone in med school who says vomiting is a sign of a long-haul, unvaccinated, me-first team-last, overweight and out-of-shape sports player.

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

It's ok, guys. We have Bobby Hart.🤢

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Spencer Brown, here is the opportunity of a lifetime

[dave mcbride]

14 hours ago, Putin said:

I don’t know man but COVID-19 does take a lot out of you ,  in my case even a month after I was tested negative I was still weak and barely had any energy, but then again I’m almost twice his age , 

holding my fingers crossed 🤞 he’ll be 100% ready for week one 

Agreed. I wasn’t really myself physically for about 5-6 weeks afterward. That’s an extremely common effect. And I didn’t have any breathing problems or anything like that.

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hope you are back to something like yourself DC. I know my mother (who came pretty close to losing her life to it) still feels 18 months on that she is not back to 100%. It has had some really strange effects like she now can't stand the taste of red wine where before she would drink plenty of the stuff, but it also still disrupts her sleep (which they have put down to PTSD from the ventilator) and has left her with some scarring on the lungs which cause occasional discomfort. 

Hey, thank you, I am good at this point.  Sorry to hear about your mom, that sounds really tough. 
 

Hopefully, we are all just over thinking and Dion is simply behind because of the time missed.   One thing I have really learned out of this whole pandemic situation; don’t make assumptions of what others are going through and appreciate your own good fortune.  Keeping that in perspective, helps keep life tolerable.  

8 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Spencer Brown, here is the opportunity of a lifetime

It really is a big opening for him, but I really doubt he’s ready to step in yet.  He has never faced anything like NFL competition and was raw at best coming out.   It would be great if he could legitimately plug the hole and even better if he could honestly “take” the job from Dion.  It would allow them to kick Dion in to play guard this year and have an even better line, but again, that’s a HUGE stretch.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hope you are back to something like yourself DC. I know my mother (who came pretty close to losing her life to it) still feels 18 months on that she is not back to 100%. It has had some really strange effects like she now can't stand the taste of red wine where before she would drink plenty of the stuff, but it also still disrupts her sleep (which they have put down to PTSD from the ventilator) and has left her with some scarring on the lungs which cause occasional discomfort. 

For a couple of months starting in late December, red wine tasted like an off-brand version of CranGrape to me. It’s back to normal now.

Edited August 16, 2021 by dave mcbride

[TheyCallMeAndy]

9 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

 

It really is a big opening for him, but I really doubt he’s ready to step in yet.  He has never faced anything like NFL competition and was raw at best coming out.   It would be great if he could legitimately plug the hole and even better if he could honestly “take” the job from Dion.  It would allow them to kick Dion in to play guard this year and have an even better line, but again, that’s a HUGE stretch.

I think the plan for him is to either take over LT/RT in a few years and kick one of those guys to guard 

[DCofNC]

4 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I think the plan for him is to either take over LT/RT in a few years and kick one of those guys to guard 

It would make a lot of sense for him to take the LT position and move on from Dion, hopefully for decent compensation, before you have to pay him again.   With Josh’s new deal, and the inevitable re work of Diggs, possibly Edmunds etc, money will get tight pretty quick for improvements to the roster in the coming years.

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

For a couple of months starting in late December, red wine tasted like an off-brand version of CranGrape to me. It’s back to normal now.

 

I took my mum for dinner last week and I was amazed she still couldn't drink red. I mean I managed the whole bottle so no harm done

[Solomon Grundy]

11 hours ago, DieselUSMC0451 said:

A lot of long term issues with this Virus, the severity and length is Unique to each person. My wife’s mother died last September from COVID, being perfectly healthy and never been in the hospital ever before this. 
 

I was training for the MURPH for a fundraiser with the Navy Seal vets in Florida. Was running 7 min miles with the 20 lbs vest. Got covid pretty bad. A month after being “cleared” I still couldn’t even finish a .25 of a mile, running very slow and no vest. 3 weeks after that I was back in the hospital with inflammation of the heart. This thing is no joke.

 

Could be very possible that he’s out for an extended period of time or could be back soon, just depends on how the virus effected him. 

The way some people underestimate the effects of this virus is mind boggling. Get well soon

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, DCofNC said:

This was my point, I’m FAR from an athlete of their level and I struggled to just get back to “normal”.  Covid is real, regardless of your views about it, ideas on the vax etc.  , it is miserable crap.  I couldn’t believe it took some of these athletes so long to return to action, then I got it and yeah, I get it now.  It’s not as simple as the flu, it can linger for what seems like forever.

Get well DC

[Jobot]

19 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

The other guy who tested positive (Boettger I think?) was back quickly. Dawkins had symptoms and I think his cardio sucks right now as a result. People reported that he looked labored while just jogging on the sidelines at camp.

 

Hindsight was paying out contracts before learning if people would be willing to vaccinate.

 

You can be the most talented OL in the world, but if you get a moderate case of Covid, you're very feasibly months away from getting back into shape.

[BigAl2526]

19 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Was it ever confirmed he had COVID, or just close contact?

 

Dion still has a few weeks to get back in football shape and start week 1.

 

If he's not taking 1st or 2nd team reps by end of next week, I'll be worried then

If Dawkins didn't have COVID and allowed himself to come in in such terrible shape, that's more worrisome than if he had been deathly siick.  As it is, it sounds as if he's at least somewhat in McDermott's doghouse and will have to endure some hard coaching to get out. The Bills, and Josh Allen need him to be solid this season.  

[eball]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hope you are back to something like yourself DC. I know my mother (who came pretty close to losing her life to it) still feels 18 months on that she is not back to 100%. It has had some really strange effects like she now can't stand the taste of red wine where before she would drink plenty of the stuff, but it also still disrupts her sleep (which they have put down to PTSD from the ventilator) and has left her with some scarring on the lungs which cause occasional discomfort. 

 

Had no idea your family went through that.  Sincerely glad she is recovering even if not fully recovered.

[The Dean]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/16/sean-mcdermott-dion-dawkins-not-close-to-where-he-needs-to-be-after-stint-on-covid-19-list/

 

 

Quote

 

“He’s not close to where he needs to be to play and help us,” McDermott said, via Jay Skurski of the Buffalo News. “He’s got a long road here. He’s going to control what he can control, and so are we. He’s got to continue to work hard to get himself back to where he’s — I mean, this is what, going on week four of training camp at this point? So, he’s missed a lot of time.”

 

McDermott noted that there are “teachable moments as far as COVID goes” and that he hopes the situation “resonates with the people it needs to resonate with” as the Bills head toward the regular season.

 

 

[BillsShredder83]

19 hours ago, The Dean said:

I'm not all that worried about this. Missed time due to Covid and I'm thinking this is just a motivational shot across the bow of Dawkins.  Like MasterStrategist, I'll be more concerned in a couple weeks if he still isn't up to speed.

Worrying either way. This makes me think of that players union letter he did about slacking his 2nd season. I'm not saying he is, just that it crossed my mind. Hopefully not the case

[GunnerBill]

35 minutes ago, The Dean said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/16/sean-mcdermott-dion-dawkins-not-close-to-where-he-needs-to-be-after-stint-on-covid-19-list/

 

 

 

 

That pretty much confirms it. McDermott is making a point to unvacced players.

[DCofNC]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

That pretty much confirms it. McDermott is making a point to unvacced players.

Yeah, but it sounds like Dion is suffering pretty hard from it too, which is probably the “hitting those that it needs to hit” that he’s speaking of.   I feel for him, it’s not fun. In context to the team, it may not be life threatening for 99.999999% of NFL athletes, but it sure can jack up your season.  If anybody is on the fence about the vax, I’m sure Dion’s condition will be used an example to push them to get it.  NFL careers are short, flirting with fire is probably not worth it.  Guys will have weigh the options and decide what is right for them.   I just hope everyone stays healthy and is able to perform at their best, for themselves and the team’s sake.