EDIT: Total cost to taxpayers? Bills select sports firm to represent ownership in building new open air stadium in OP, targeted for 2025

[Mango]

26 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

Solid take. It’s always good to hear someone who can be a fan, without delusions about the importance of the sport. We all love our Bills football, or we wouldn’t be here. That doesn’t mean there aren’t more significant things in the world as a whole. It’s kind of a lame threat imo. The Pegula’s and the rest of the planet have always known there’s more money to be made elsewhere. Buffalo was the spot because they allegedly felt some attachment to the city. Use any city you want as leverage, but in the end they either want to be in Buffalo, or elsewhere. I think it’s just a threat, but it’s a ridiculous one. 

I am not against public spending on sports. I just look at it the same as stuff like the Albright Knox or the Philharmonic. They provided value but cost money. But if the Albright Knox was clearing $70M per year after expenses. (That is what GB cleared circa 2019) and told the city, county, and state, that unless they gave them an additional $1.5B (pandemic or not), they would pack up and go. We’d line the streets and wave them good bye and laughing as they jumped on the 90.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Mango
Year

[SirAndrew]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

That’s what it is, nothing more than a threat. You guys need to crack open a cold one and relax. The Buffalo Bills aren’t going anywhere. 

Didn’t realize my post sounded so

alarmist. 

[BuffaloBills1998]

Just now, SirAndrew said:

Didn’t realize my post sounded so

alarmist. 

Well all you guys are doing is creating paranoia and giving everyone wrong ideas in their head, that the Bills might actually leave. They’re not leaving, again the Sabres is a good example of why they’re not leaving. 

[Mango]

7 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

That’s what it is, nothing more than a threat. You guys need to crack open a cold one and relax. The Buffalo Bills aren’t going anywhere. 

How do you see this as a real possibility?? Your missing a lot and your very wrong. First off Pegula would have to give up the Sabres which something he will never do. That was and is his dream team to own, also he’s publicly stated that one of the reasons he bought this team was to keep them in Buffalo and keep them out of Bon Jovi’s hands. 

Nobody thinks they’re going anywhere. People are offended by empty threat with an absurd asking price in the middle of an ongoing pandemic/pandemic recovery. 
 

I agree they’re not going anywhere. And if I am the state or the county, I am not returning any phone calls until the Pegula’s come to the table with something reasonable. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Mango

[BuffaloBills1998]

Just now, Mango said:

Nobody thinks their going anywhere. People are offended by empty threat with an absurd asking price in the middle of an ongoing pandemic/pandemic recovery. 
 

I agree they’re not going anywhere. And if I am the state or the county, I am not returning any phone calls until the Pegula’s come to the table with something reasonable. 

Something tells me this isn’t the Pegulas rather it’s Jerry’s company that Pegula is using for help with the new stadium. Hence why they mentioned Austin Texas. 

[The Wiz]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

Nobody thinks their going anywhere. People are offended by empty threat with an absurd asking price in the middle of an ongoing pandemic/pandemic recovery. 
 

I agree they’re not going anywhere. And if I am the state or the county, I am not returning any phone calls until the Pegula’s come to the table with something reasonable. 

I think more people are offended by an absured asking price by a billionaire and a multi-billion dollar corporation. 

 

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Something tells me this isn’t the Pegulas rather it’s Jerry’s company that Pegula is using for help with the new stadium. Hence why they mentioned Austin Texas. 

Whatever. They proactively hired somebody to speak on their behalf. It doesn’t really matter. 
 

2 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I think more people are offended by an absured asking price by a billionaire and a multi-billion dollar corporation. 

 

Right. We are on the same page. 

[SectionC3]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Something tells me this isn’t the Pegulas rather it’s Jerry’s company that Pegula is using for help with the new stadium. Hence why they mentioned Austin Texas. 

Ding ding we have a winner.  Today’s salvo was an opener.  Nothing more, nothing less.  

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I think more people are offended by an absured asking price by a billionaire and a multi-billion dollar corporation. 

 

I honestly don’t care about the ask… It’s ridiculous, but whatever… billionaires gonna billionaire.  
 

Im more disgusted by the (obvious) next move… which is to leverage a city move if they don’t get what they want.  I get that this is all part of the game, but it’s such a sore spot for any Bills fan, that for it to get leaked that they are leveraging Austin to get what they want is really gross.  
 

I get it, but I’m disgusted by it. 

[Rochesterfan]

5 hours ago, Arkady Renko said:

Yes, but what could the NFL do if the Pegulas didn’t cooperate?

 

The NFL could decide to make adjustments to what the Bills receive in revenue splitting across the league - especially as related to stadium money - making it harder and harder to fund a competitive team.

 

They could come up with specific amounts of revenue each team must contribute and use that to take away picks or provide other competitive disadvantages.

 

They can specifically write into new television contracts a specific amount of line space and number of field feeds needed for the game and future replay - making the stadium obsolete and forcing the Bills to have to play in another stadium until a new stadium is built.

 

They could hold a vote and pull the franchise from the Pegula’s and choose a new ownership and site because they did not follow through on their commitments.

 

Overall - I think the NFL has a boatload of options ranging from financial to performance to removing the team if they want.  My guess is they want to stay back and let the Bills push and get what they need, but they have never been afraid to push the envelope as needed.

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

I honestly don’t care about the ask… It’s ridiculous, but whatever… billionaires gonna billionaire.  
 

Im more disgusted by the (obvious) next move… which is to leverage a city move if they don’t get what they want.  I get that this is all part of the game, but it’s such a sore spot for any Bills fan, that for it to get leaked that they are leveraging Austin to get what they want is really gross.  
 

I get it, but I’m disgusted by it. 

I highly doubt they are actually leveraging another city to get what they want.  Nothing official has been released and this is all from a "source".

 

 

I'm sure if the time came when they decided to sell the sabres came we could take it serious but who in their right mind would leverage one franchise while owning another in the same location?

 

[SirAndrew]

Just now, SCBills said:

I honestly don’t care about the ask… It’s ridiculous, but whatever… billionaires gonna billionaire.  
 

Im more disgusted by the (obvious) next move… which is to leverage a city move if they don’t get what they want.  I get that this is all part of the game, but it’s such a sore spot for any Bills fan, that for it to get leaked that they are leveraging Austin to get what they want is really gross.  
 

I get it, but I’m disgusted by it. 

This ^ We all know there’s plenty of moral quandaries here, but it’s the principal of things. I’m not saying the Bills are leaving, or causing alarm. It’s just the threats are silly. Don’t forget about the threat to play games in Toronto or State College while a new stadium is built. 

[The Wiz]

7 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

The NFL could decide to make adjustments to what the Bills receive in revenue splitting across the league - especially as related to stadium money - making it harder and harder to fund a competitive team.

 

They could come up with specific amounts of revenue each team must contribute and use that to take away picks or provide other competitive disadvantages.

 

They can specifically write into new television contracts a specific amount of line space and number of field feeds needed for the game and future replay - making the stadium obsolete and forcing the Bills to have to play in another stadium until a new stadium is built.

 

They could hold a vote and pull the franchise from the Pegula’s and choose a new ownership and site because they did not follow through on their commitments.

 

Overall - I think the NFL has a boatload of options ranging from financial to performance to removing the team if they want.  My guess is they want to stay back and let the Bills push and get what they need, but they have never been afraid to push the envelope as needed.

All of that is basically cutting off your nose in spite of your face.

[snowbelt_subie]

As someone from northeast Ohio. The bills are going to get what they want. If the city takes a hard stand to ownership it won't end well. 

 

It is what it is just give them what they want it won't matter the amount of tax for the average person.

[Dablitzkrieg]

Can someone explain please, how moving the Bills prohibits the Pegulas from keeping the Sabres in Buffalo?

[Captain Caveman]

20 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Something tells me this isn’t the Pegulas rather it’s Jerry’s company that Pegula is using for help with the new stadium. Hence why they mentioned Austin Texas. 

If it was Jerry's company that suggested bringing a 3rd team to Texas Jerry's gonna fire some folks.  Jerry doesn't want a 3rd team in Texas.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

The story has gone national.

 

The press has seized on the term the "Austin Bills".

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-austin-bills-texas-city-190123663.html

[SirAndrew]

5 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Can someone explain please, how moving the Bills prohibits the Pegulas from keeping the Sabres in Buffalo?

I’m totally in favor of selling the Sabres to help cover new Bills stadium costs. I’ll help them pack. 

[Mango]

14 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I highly doubt they are actually leveraging another city to get what they want.  Nothing official has been released and this is all from a "source".

 

 

I'm sure if the time came when they decided to sell the sabres came we could take it serious but who in their right mind would leverage one franchise while owning another in the same location?

 

The Pegulas are not great owners. They extended Whaley, fired Whaley the next year, hired Rex, literally every move with the Sabres. 
 

I view McBeane as a broken clock being right twice a day. 

[LabattBlue]

I just posted something on TSW sister site (sabrespace). 
 

If it keeps NYS from reaching in my pocket even deeper, I am all for the burden falling on anyone who attends games in terms of ticket prices and PSL’s.  You want to use it, you pay for it  The other alternative...Kim and Terry absorb a larger share of the new stadium costs. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by BTB

[The Wiz]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

The Pegulas are not great owners. They extended Whaley, fired Whaley the next year, hired Rex, literally every move with the Sabres. 
 

I view McBeane as a broken clock being right twice a day. 

Not sure what them being "great" owners means.  They are the owners, can do what they want with both teams.  But moving a team makes almost no sense with the cash cow that they have in WNY.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

It would be taxpayer money from the whole state, not just Erie County. Our tax dollars have gone to NYC infrastructure. NYC taxpayers will be okay if some of their tax dollars go to a new stadium in Orchard Park. Ideally by building a big new stadium you'll invite more events to Buffalo which in turn will bring business to Buffalo. It isn't a project that exclusively benefits the Pegulas. Infrastructure spending has trickle down benefits. I bet once the official deal is in place the average NYS taxpayer will barely notice a difference.

 

I can't tell if this is sarcasm, but if it isn't, it ought to be

[mjd1001]

10 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

The story has gone national.

 

The press has seized on the term the "Austin Bills".

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-austin-bills-texas-city-190123663.html

another one:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/austin-emerges-as-possible-relocation-spot-for-bills-amid-new-orchard-park-stadium-negotiations-per-report/

[BuffaloBills1998]

13 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Can someone explain please, how moving the Bills prohibits the Pegulas from keeping the Sabres in Buffalo?

Because it would be a conflict of interest. Same reason why Jacobs who wanted to buy the Bills but couldn’t because he owns the Boston Bruins. Terry would be forced to sell the Sabres and that’s not happening

[Bad Things]

This is so wrong.

Yeah, I get reasoning that this is only the first step of a negotiation process.  But, why?  Such an extreme stance does not have to be the first step.

 

I find it insulting and disingenuous to Bills fans and all of the taxpayers that would have to foot the bill.

 

I don't even live there and it's pissing me off.

Hey Terry!  F - you!

[wppete]

Here we go again!!! Austin Texas now? 
 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/austin-emerges-as-possible-relocation-spot-for-bills-amid-new-orchard-park-stadium-negotiations-per-report/

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

37 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Something tells me this isn’t the Pegulas rather it’s Jerry’s company that Pegula is using for help with the new stadium. Hence why they mentioned Austin Texas. 

 

Then either that company is "going rogue", or the Pegulas have signed off on their strategy

[SCBills]

They allowing fans at Saturday’s practice again?

 

Im sure that will go swimmingly after this news. 

[MiltonWaddams]

GTHO. The Bills are Buffalo and Buffalo is the Bills. Denying the city of that team would be a travesty beyond explanation. Edit: Is this the influence of Tesla and SpaceX moving to that region?

Edited August 1, 2021 by MiltonWaddams

[BuffaloBills1998]

4 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

another one:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/austin-emerges-as-possible-relocation-spot-for-bills-amid-new-orchard-park-stadium-negotiations-per-report/

Buffalo isn’t going anywhere, just some writers trying to get clicks and they are from you guys because you keep clicking on these stupid articles that aren’t based off any facts. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

Just now, SCBills said:

They allowing fans at Saturday’s practice again?

 

Im sure that will go swimmingly after this news. 

Yes, I'm going

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

'Texas:  We now have less people, but more football teams!'

[CheshireCT]

40 minutes ago, Mango said:

I am not against public spending on sports. I just look at it the same as stuff like the Albright Knox or the Philharmonic. They provided value but cost money. But if the Albright Knox was clearing $70M per year after expenses. (That is what GB cleared circa 2019) and told the city, county, and state, that unless they gave them an additional $1.5B (pandemic or not), they would pack up and go. We’d line the streets and wave them good bye and laughing as they jumped on the 90.

You can’t put a multi-gajillion sports industry in the same category as not-for-profit arts and culture which exist purely to enrich the community. Furthermore, these cultural institutions receive VERY LITTLE public money in America and survive primarily on private donations.

 

a sports stadium should get $0 in public funding. That said, I completely understand why the Pegulas are asking for it. It happens all over the place, and if governments have given out such money before, why wouldn’t they ask for it? On principal however, it’s totally absurd to see tax payers financially supporting people making millions and billions individually.

[mjd1001]

I'm just not a big fan of the Pegulas as owners. It seems like they are sucking the fun out of being a sports fan for me in Buffalo.  Sure, they are a big reason the team was kept here but:

 

-To me the mess the Sabres are in is on them.  I think we are looking at at least 2 more years without the playoffs for the Sabres (at least). That will have them as owners of the team for a full 12 years, and 12 straight years of no playoffs (they made it the tail end of the season they bought the Sabres.)  Before Kim and Terry? The team never went more than THREE years in a row without making the playoffs.

 

-The Bills.  You just DON'T make that kind of threat, or even bring it up casually, in a way where it can go public (leak or not) in the opening rounds of stadium Negotiations.  It might not matter to them, but this city is starving for something good in sports.  The bills were bad for SO LONG, and we are coming off the pandemic so with the exception of a very small number of people, it has been HOW long since there was even a home playoff game?  And with what is going on with you and the Sabres in this town, you just don't let the threat, or even the THOUGHT of moving get out right now.

[BuffaloBills1998]

https://www.sabrespace.com/community/topic/29032-forget-about-the-idea-that-the-pegulas-will-sell-the-sabres/ Just to get this out

[SCBills]

Just now, CheshireCT said:

You can’t put a multi-gajillion sports industry in the same category as not-for-profit arts and culture which exist purely to enrich the community. Furthermore, these cultural institutions receive VERY LITTLE public money in America and survive primarily on private donations.

 

a sports stadium should get $0 in public funding. That said, I completely understand why the Pegulas are asking for it. It happens all over the place, and if governments have given out such money before, why wouldn’t they ask for it? On principal however, it’s totally absurd to see tax payers financially supporting people making millions and billions individually.

I get your sentiment, but have you looked at what your tax dollars go to?

 

A football stadium for a team people care about would probably rank in the top ten of positive things taxpayers help fund.  
 

I just can’t work up the moral outrage over this.  I’d rather the devil I know (PGSE) get rich off my tax dollars than the devil I don’t…. Or should I say “along with the devil I don’t”.  

[BuffaloBills1998]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm just not a big fan of the Pegulas as owners. It seems like they are sucking the fun out of being a sports fan for me in Buffalo.  Sure, they are a big reason the team was kept here but:

 

-To me the mess the Sabres are in is on them.  I think we are looking at at least 2 more years without the playoffs for the Sabres (at least). That will have them as owners of the team for a full 12 years, and 12 straight years of no playoffs (they made it the tail end of the season they bought the Sabres.)  Before Kim and Terry? The team never went more than THREE years in a row without making the playoffs.

 

-The Bills.  You just DON'T make that kind of threat, or even bring it up casually, in a way where it can go public (leak or not) in the opening rounds of stadium Negotiations.  It might not matter to them, but this city is starving for something good in sports.  The bills were bad for SO LONG, and we are coming off the pandemic so with the exception of a very small number of people, it has been HOW long since there was even a home playoff game?  And with what is going on with you and the Sabres in this town, you just don't let the threat, or even the THOUGHT of moving get out right now.

First off we don’t know how much of that report is true. There were no quotes from either Pegula or any of his representatives, second they’re not Moving to Austin. That’s Dallas Cowboy country and Jerry won’t have any of it. Thirdly Pegula would have to

give up the Sabres, something he’s not doing and last this would be a PR nightmare for Terry and his family. There’s a video of him crying saying the reason he bought the Bills was to Keep them in Buffalo. Please moderator end this fake news bull#### of a thread 

[4_kidd_4]

Man, I bet the Patriots hope the Bills don’t encroach on their turf in Austin…

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

First off we don’t know how much of that report is true. There were no quotes from either Pegula or any of his representatives, second they’re not Moving to Austin. That’s Dallas Cowboy country and Jerry won’t have any of it. Thirdly Pegula would have to

give up the Sabres, something he’s not doing and last this would be a PR nightmare for Terry and his family. There’s a video of him crying saying the reason he bought the Bills was to Keep them in Buffalo. Please moderator end this fake news bull#### of a thread 

We all know them moving the team likely isn’t happening, but you can’t ask mods to end a thread when this is out there… it’s been trending on Twitter and major outlets have picked it up.  
 

PGSE and/or the Buffalo Bills are more than welcome to rebuff/clarify this story at any point. 
 

They are in a tricky spot because their only leverage is to threaten to move the team, but until we hear they aren’t, this is now an issue.   It doesn’t matter if that’s just how these negotiations go…

[mjd1001]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

First off we don’t know how much of that report is true. There were no quotes from either Pegula or any of his representatives, second they’re not Moving to Austin. That’s Dallas Cowboy country and Jerry won’t have any of it. Thirdly Pegula would have to

give up the Sabres, something he’s not doing and last this would be a PR nightmare for Terry and his family. There’s a video of him crying saying the reason he bought the Bills was to Keep them in Buffalo. Please moderator end this fake news bull#### of a thread 

I'm not saying anything you bring up is false, but the fact this news is out there is already a PR disaster for the Bills.  You don't bring up relocating the team as a possibility in any way if it can even have a slight chance of going public this early in negotiations.....in light of all that is going on with the Sabres and the Bills just turning the corner after a couple of bad decades.