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Top 31 NFL prospects, a consensus?


TPS

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***  Update: The Athletic came out with their consensus big board of the top 300 prospects using over 50 ranking sites.  I added that comparison on the last page. Turns out my sample was a good picture of their ranking.  I have a link to their big board on that update.

 

Wanting to avoid a tedious chore, I decided to play around with the prospect rankings and did a "consensus" average using 7 publicly available rankings: Jeremiah, Brandt, Brugler, CBS, NFL.com, Sporting News, and The Draft Network.  I make no claim about how good or bad these sources are, and given there is so much variability, I decided to drop the worst ranking for each prospect, then calculated their average ranking.  If there was a tie, the prospect with the lower standard deviation (not shown) is ranked ahead of the other. Some comments based on the outcome:

 

1. The obvious: there is a consensus #1.

 

2. There appears to be a consensus top 12; then a consensus among the 13 - 21 group; and also among the remaining top 22 - 31.  My meaning here is that there is a jump or gap in the average ranking values greater than 2.5. For example, moving from Surtain (11) to Vera-Tucker (13.8), the difference is 2.8; going from Ojulari (20.8) to Ettiene (23.2) the gap is 2.4; and while the gap between Jones and Newsome is also 2.4, there were no other prospects who averaged close to 30 (Mayfield was next at 33.2). 

 

3. Prospects who seem to be the most difficult to rank, as measured by the standard deviation (in parentheses) of their best 6 rankings: #14 Farley (7.8); #17 Paye (5.6); #19 Phillips (5.5); #22 Ettiene (7.8); #24 Moehrig (9.3); #25 Rousseau (10.2); #26 Barmore (9.7); #27 Oweh (6.7); #30 Jones (6.7); and #31 Newsome (5.9).  What sticks out here are the edge rushers, all of which have high standard deviations (Ojulari's was the lowest at 4.5).  I'd say these #s suggest there is no consensus on who the top edge rusher is between Paye, Phillips, and maybe Ojulari.

 

4. What might this mean for the Bills?  I think it's safe to say the first 21 prospects will be gone, and you can throw in QB Jones for 22.  If anyone drops out of the top 22, it would be Farley, given his standard deviation of almost 8 (the high variability is probably due to his back surgery). It would seem the only edge rushers who might be there at 30 are Rousseau and Oweh (Ossai wasn't close to making the top 30). I don't think the Bills would select Barmore or Toney, and I don't think that Farley will fall that far. I also expect Newsome will go before 30.  So, my guess is one of the following players will be there for the Bills: Oweh, Rousseau, Moehrig, Collins, and possible Ettiene. My personal choice here would be, in order, Oweh, Moehrig, then maybe Ettiene.  However, a trade back might be the optimal decision, especially if Oweh is gone.

 

5. Finally, of the sources I used, The Sporting News was closest to my consensus average ranking, then Brugler (I took the difference between my rank and where they ranked the prospect, then summed up the differences for all 31 players).  The farthest off from this consensus ranking was Brandt.

 

If anything, this little exercise has made me less certain about who the Bills should take at 30.

 (Sorry, I tried several ways to increase the font, but none worked) [Edit: if the viewer clicks on the image, a large version appears]

 

Can't seem to delete the extra images. [Edit: done.  scroll down to "uploaded images", click on the "trash can" for the extras]

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I've done similar research on multiple sites, and also done multiple draft mocks on both the Draft Network and Pro Football Focus.

Pretty much agree with your assessments.

 

Personally, I would like the Bills to select either an Edge Rusher or Cornerback with their first pick.

In every case, the Top 3 CBs are long-gone by #30.  And if one of the top DEs drops, it's usually Gregory Rousseau (who has dropped huge due to his red flags).

 

If I'm Brandon Beane, I think the best move would be to watch the board closely on draft night... then either jump up 5 slots or so to get a DE or CB that falls, OR trade back into the top of the 2nd Round and get someone like Asante Samuel Jr..  Then maybe do something similar to move higher with Pick #61, because we are in a similar predicament in that round (just out of reach of the best value guys).

 

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38 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

I've done similar research on multiple sites, and also done multiple draft mocks on both the Draft Network and Pro Football Focus.

Pretty much agree with your assessments.

 

Personally, I would like the Bills to select either an Edge Rusher or Cornerback with their first pick.

In every case, the Top 3 CBs are long-gone by #30.  And if one of the top DEs drops, it's usually Gregory Rousseau (who has dropped huge due to his red flags).

 

If I'm Brandon Beane, I think the best move would be to watch the board closely on draft night... then either jump up 5 slots or so to get a DE or CB that falls, OR trade back into the top of the 2nd Round and get someone like Asante Samuel Jr..  Then maybe do something similar to move higher with Pick #61, because we are in a similar predicament in that round (just out of reach of the best value guys).

 

Yup.  Looking like corner.  There are a handful of corners that could be worthy of the 30th selection.  I think surtain and Horn will be gone by the 12th pick.  Farley could be gone by then as well.  Any of these guys could be the pick

 

Farley

Newsome

campbell

Melinfonwu

Stokes

some say Samuel

 

 

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17 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yup.  Looking like corner.  There are a handful of corners that could be worthy of the 30th selection.  I think surtain and Horn will be gone by the 12th pick.  Farley could be gone by then as well.  Any of these guys could be the pick

 

Farley

Newsome

campbell

Melinfonwu

Stokes

some say Samuel

 

 

 

Really only your top 2 feel like "worthwhile" picks at 30 -- there's about 8 guys that are about the same caliber as your bottom four, some of which will likely be able to be had at 61.

 

I think a trade up or back are both very likely. Beane likes to move around to go get his guy, and has shown time and again that if he can't, he's open to moving back to draft value. While I wouldn't be shocked to see them take a risk on Oweh, if both he and Ossai are on the board at 30, it feels incredibly likely that we may take even a little less than fair value to move back a few spots where we could still get one of those guys...

 

I appreciate the OP's hard work and I think it's definitely a worthwhile thought exercise, but Beane just isn't the type of guy to let himself get stuck in a situation where he has to take a guy he doesn't like just because the board shakes out that way. He'll move up or back... 

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6 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

 

Really only your top 2 feel like "worthwhile" picks at 30 -- there's about 8 guys that are about the same caliber as your bottom four, some of which will likely be able to be had at 61.

 

I think a trade up or back are both very likely. Beane likes to move around to go get his guy, and has shown time and again that if he can't, he's open to moving back to draft value. While I wouldn't be shocked to see them take a risk on Oweh, if both he and Ossai are on the board at 30, it feels incredibly likely that we may take even a little less than fair value to move back a few spots where we could still get one of those guys...

 

I appreciate the OP's hard work and I think it's definitely a worthwhile thought exercise, but Beane just isn't the type of guy to let himself get stuck in a situation where he has to take a guy he doesn't like just because the board shakes out that way. He'll move up or back... 

If any of those players were the pick @30, it means that they like that particular player more than the others for one reason or another and don’t want to chance letting him go. If that’s the case I wouldn’t be upset. If the guy they pick turns out to be a good starter for the next 5-10 seasons, no one will talking about if they’re worth it or not. It’s worth it.  
 

that’s said, if there isnt one guy that stands out and they’d would be happy with a handful of corners, trade down or draft a different position.  

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Just now, NewEra said:

If any of those players were the pick @30, it means that they like that particular player more than the others for one reason or another and don’t want to chance letting him go. If that’s the case I wouldn’t be upset. If the guy they pick turns out to be a good starter for the next 5-10 seasons, no one will talking about if they’re worth it or not. It’s worth it.  
 

that’s said, if there isnt one guy that stands out and they’d would be happy with a handful of corners, trade down or draft a different position.  

Yeah I obviously don't have their board, but it really feels like a Melifonwu or Campbell type at 30 would be a pretty massive reach to my own eyes. I'm with you on trusting their evaluations and if it works out it'll ultimately be moot, but that reach feeling feels twice as cringe-worthy when you consider the pool of talent at that position (again, to my eyes)... 

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12 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

Yeah I obviously don't have their board, but it really feels like a Melifonwu or Campbell type at 30 would be a pretty massive reach to my own eyes. I'm with you on trusting their evaluations and if it works out it'll ultimately be moot, but that reach feeling feels twice as cringe-worthy when you consider the pool of talent at that position (again, to my eyes)... 

word.  

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Thanks op

I think also what this shows is really how great the gm from the ravens was.

 

Newsome always picked late in the draft most years and hitting on your first pick that late in the draft is not as easy as it looks. STUDY YOUR FILM AND GO WITH YOU GUT FEELING. 

This is why Billy boy drafts really stink.

 

As others have said bean really needs to hit this draft most players drafted might not see the field much this year but are all about our future.

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Great post. Very thoughtful and a lot of effort.

 

One small quibble is that you say "I think it's safe to say the first 21 prospects will be gone, and you can throw in QB Jones for 22." I would disagree. There's often a guy or two who falls. At a guess, 20 of those 22 will almost surely be gone, but I wouldn't be any surer than that.

 

In any case, very interesting.

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8 hours ago, glazeduck said:

Yeah I obviously don't have their board, but it really feels like a Melifonwu or Campbell type at 30 would be a pretty massive reach to my own eyes. I'm with you on trusting their evaluations and if it works out it'll ultimately be moot, but that reach feeling feels twice as cringe-worthy when you consider the pool of talent at that position (again, to my eyes)... 

 

I have Melifonwu as a mega reach at #30. It would genuinely be wall punching time. Campbell would be a reach but a less agregious one. 

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11 hours ago, mjt328 said:

I've done similar research on multiple sites, and also done multiple draft mocks on both the Draft Network and Pro Football Focus.

Pretty much agree with your assessments.

 

Personally, I would like the Bills to select either an Edge Rusher or Cornerback with their first pick.

In every case, the Top 3 CBs are long-gone by #30.  And if one of the top DEs drops, it's usually Gregory Rousseau (who has dropped huge due to his red flags).

 

If I'm Brandon Beane, I think the best move would be to watch the board closely on draft night... then either jump up 5 slots or so to get a DE or CB that falls, OR trade back into the top of the 2nd Round and get someone like Asante Samuel Jr..  Then maybe do something similar to move higher with Pick #61, because we are in a similar predicament in that round (just out of reach of the best value guys).

 

Haven't we learned our lesson about the faller in the draft especially trading up for them. We traded up for Ford, Zay, Edmunds &  Moss everyone Beane trades up for hasn't been worth it except for Allen thankfully but he wasn't considered a faller at that point. 

 

Edmunds has made the pro bowl twice he's not a bust but he wasn't worth moving up for in a strong draft for Lbers both Leonard & Warner are much better players then Edmunds and I believe Leonard went in the 2nd rd and Warner in the 3rd . We gave up a 3rd to get Edmunds only to use him at the wrong position he should be a SAM linebacker he doesn't seem to have the instinct to play in the middle always seems like he's a step behind . I really hope this yr he finally figures it out and becomes a beast but as of right now he's the Donte Witner of Lbers. 

 

I'm on team go pure BPA or trade bk no player in this draft is worth trading up for in my opinion especially since the 2nd threw 5th rd seem like there loaded . I'm also not a fan of drafting for need that always seems to backfire more times then not. 

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Thank you for this @TPS!  I hope Mr Beane has some pre-draft trade agreements worked out.  If the stats are identifying the tiers correctly Beane may have a tough time trading down to get value.  The more posts I see on the draft the more convinced I become that we’re drafting a CB in round one.  The EDGE just won’t be there.

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8 hours ago, scuba guy said:

Thanks op

I think also what this shows is really how great the gm from the ravens was.

 

Newsome always picked late in the draft most years and hitting on your first pick that late in the draft is not as easy as it looks. STUDY YOUR FILM AND GO WITH YOU GUT FEELING. 

This is why Billy boy drafts really stink.

 

As others have said bean really needs to hit this draft most players drafted might not see the field much this year but are all about our future.

Eric DeCosta is a great GM also. He's worked with Newsome the whole time and has taken over and not skipped a beat. 

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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have Melifonwu as a mega reach at #30. It would genuinely be wall punching time. Campbell would be a reach but a less agregious one. 

I agree mof I don't think there's much of a drop off from the CBs in the 2nd or even 3rd rd. Mcd is great at developing talent in the secondary we can wait for a Campbell, Odebo, or Trill Williams type . 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Don't believe it. Mac Jones is a smoke screen. They're taking either Fields or Lance. My money would be on Fields.

Why would they need a smoke screen if they already have the pick between the three?

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1 hour ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Haven't we learned our lesson about the faller in the draft especially trading up for them. We traded up for Ford, Zay, Edmunds &  Moss everyone Beane trades up for hasn't been worth it except for Allen thankfully but he wasn't considered a faller at that point. 

 

Edmunds has made the pro bowl twice he's not a bust but he wasn't worth moving up for in a strong draft for Lbers both Leonard & Warner are much better players then Edmunds and I believe Leonard went in the 2nd rd and Warner in the 3rd . We gave up a 3rd to get Edmunds only to use him at the wrong position he should be a SAM linebacker he doesn't seem to have the instinct to play in the middle always seems like he's a step behind . I really hope this yr he finally figures it out and becomes a beast but as of right now he's the Donte Witner of Lbers. 

 

I'm on team go pure BPA or trade bk no player in this draft is worth trading up for in my opinion especially since the 2nd threw 5th rd seem like there loaded . I'm also not a fan of drafting for need that always seems to backfire more times then not. 

Beane didn’t trade up for moss and wasn’t even here when Zay was drafted 

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Under / over, how many ranking selections will be wrong? I’m going with 70% / 30% to the being wrong side, it’s likely to be even higher... 😁

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33 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Beane didn’t trade up for moss and wasn’t even here when Zay was drafted 

My bad he tried to trade up for Moss and Mcd traded up for Zay in a strong Wr class . I believe they did that because of the Wr coach we hired from East Carolina but still just shows u sometimes familiarity doesn't work. I'm not trying to say our front office is bad or anything like that just making an example of how trading up doesn't work. 

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Kinda did the same thing except I went thru 30 National mock drafts and then filtered thru the players that were left from the National rankings that the Bills could choose.  Only listing the draftees that were available 50% or more .  The Bills choose Jayson Oweh the most followed by Harris an then Jenkins.  Here's the list:

 

Sam Cosmi - 76%

Kadariius Toney - 64%

Jayson Oweh - 64%

Christian Barmore - 60%

Zaven Collins - 56%

Rashad Bateman - 52%

Taven Jenkins - 50%

Najee Harris - 50%

 

 

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2 hours ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Haven't we learned our lesson about the faller in the draft especially trading up for them. We traded up for Ford, Zay, Edmunds &  Moss everyone Beane trades up for hasn't been worth it except for Allen thankfully but he wasn't considered a faller at that point. 

 

Edmunds has made the pro bowl twice he's not a bust but he wasn't worth moving up for in a strong draft for Lbers both Leonard & Warner are much better players then Edmunds and I believe Leonard went in the 2nd rd and Warner in the 3rd . We gave up a 3rd to get Edmunds only to use him at the wrong position he should be a SAM linebacker he doesn't seem to have the instinct to play in the middle always seems like he's a step behind . I really hope this yr he finally figures it out and becomes a beast but as of right now he's the Donte Witner of Lbers. 

 

I'm on team go pure BPA or trade bk no player in this draft is worth trading up for in my opinion especially since the 2nd threw 5th rd seem like there loaded . I'm also not a fan of drafting for need that always seems to backfire more times then not. 

 

Sometimes trade-ups are the best move.  Sometimes a trade-down is better.  Sometimes it's better to stay put.

Each situation is different, depending on how a GM has players ranked, team need, overall value on the board, positional depth of the prospect class, what trade offers are available, etc., etc., etc.

 

As you mentioned, the best draft move the Bills have made in the last 30+ years (if not ever) was trading up for Josh Allen.

We also got a starting Left Tackle in Dion Dawkins in a draft day trade-up, just before Brandon Beane arrived on the scene.

You can find other examples all across the NFL of trade-ups that worked out great.

 

It's way too easy to look back years later with 20/20 vision and find late round picks who we "could" have taken.  GMs can only go by their own scouting and rankings at the time.  We needed a MLB for this defense, and our scouting department LOVED the potential for Tremaine Edmunds.  At that time, nobody had Fred Werner close to the same tier, and Dareus Leonard plays on the weakside (like Matt Milano).  The simple fact was... if they wanted Edmunds, they probably needed to make the trade-up to get him.

 

Going into the offseason, I felt like the Bills needed to to upgrade their pass rush and secondary in order to compete with Kansas City.  They did virtually nothing to address either position in Free Agency.  So while I'm a believer in BPA and agree that we shouldn't get desperate in the draft - it would be very disappointing for me to see us walk out of the draft without a DE and CB in the first three rounds.  Our overall roster is extremely deep and it will be tough for late-round draft selections to actually make the roster.  So depending on how the board falls, I think a trade-up may be the smartest move.  If someone like Kwity Paye, Jaelen Phillips, Caleb Farley or Jaycee Horn make it to around #20 (where we could get up for a mid-round pick), then I think Beane should strongly consider it.

 

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15 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

So we are supposed to believe the Niners invested three 1st round picks in the 30th ranked prospect Pondering Oh No GIF by New York Red Bulls

No, you should question whether Jones is really the 30th best prospect...

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14 hours ago, glazeduck said:

 

Really only your top 2 feel like "worthwhile" picks at 30 -- there's about 8 guys that are about the same caliber as your bottom four, some of which will likely be able to be had at 61.

 

I think a trade up or back are both very likely. Beane likes to move around to go get his guy, and has shown time and again that if he can't, he's open to moving back to draft value. While I wouldn't be shocked to see them take a risk on Oweh, if both he and Ossai are on the board at 30, it feels incredibly likely that we may take even a little less than fair value to move back a few spots where we could still get one of those guys...

 

I appreciate the OP's hard work and I think it's definitely a worthwhile thought exercise, but Beane just isn't the type of guy to let himself get stuck in a situation where he has to take a guy he doesn't like just because the board shakes out that way. He'll move up or back... 

Name one time Beane has traded back...seems to me he only trades up.

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52 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Sometimes trade-ups are the best move.  Sometimes a trade-down is better.  Sometimes it's better to stay put.

Each situation is different, depending on how a GM has players ranked, team need, overall value on the board, positional depth of the prospect class, what trade offers are available, etc., etc., etc.

 

As you mentioned, the best draft move the Bills have made in the last 30+ years (if not ever) was trading up for Josh Allen.

We also got a starting Left Tackle in Dion Dawkins in a draft day trade-up, just before Brandon Beane arrived on the scene.

You can find other examples all across the NFL of trade-ups that worked out great.

 

It's way too easy to look back years later with 20/20 vision and find late round picks who we "could" have taken.  GMs can only go by their own scouting and rankings at the time.  We needed a MLB for this defense, and our scouting department LOVED the potential for Tremaine Edmunds.  At that time, nobody had Fred Werner close to the same tier, and Dareus Leonard plays on the weakside (like Matt Milano).  The simple fact was... if they wanted Edmunds, they probably needed to make the trade-up to get him.

 

Going into the offseason, I felt like the Bills needed to to upgrade their pass rush and secondary in order to compete with Kansas City.  They did virtually nothing to address either position in Free Agency.  So while I'm a believer in BPA and agree that we shouldn't get desperate in the draft - it would be very disappointing for me to see us walk out of the draft without a DE and CB in the first three rounds.  Our overall roster is extremely deep and it will be tough for late-round draft selections to actually make the roster.  So depending on how the board falls, I think a trade-up may be the smartest move.  If someone like Kwity Paye, Jaelen Phillips, Caleb Farley or Jaycee Horn make it to around #20 (where we could get up for a mid-round pick), then I think Beane should strongly consider it.

 

Dion Dawkins wasn't a faller though I was speaking in terms of trading up for a player that's fallen on the board. There's usually a reason they have fallen but then again not all situations are the same.

1 minute ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Dion Dawkins wasn't a faller though I was speaking in terms of trading up for a player that's fallen on the board. There's usually a reason they have fallen but then again not all situations are the same.

Phillips I would not at all entertain moving up for he's already a big risk with his concussion history . 

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Nice job OP! There is a consensus top 9, top 12, top 17, top 21 and top 30!

 

I thought Jaycee Horn would go higher - that was the big surprise to me. Mac Jones will go higher obviously.

 

Greg Rousseau is falling - and I think that might be one opportunity to get a game changer. The 2019 tape doesnt lie. Dont let the pro-day numbers fool ya, especially this year.

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41 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Nice job OP! There is a consensus top 9, top 12, top 17, top 21 and top 30!

 

I thought Jaycee Horn would go higher - that was the big surprise to me. Mac Jones will go higher obviously.

 

Greg Rousseau is falling - and I think that might be one opportunity to get a game changer. The 2019 tape doesnt lie. Dont let the pro-day numbers fool ya, especially this year.

With Rousseau in particular I would put some stock into his pro day. He opted out last year and had all that time to prep for that one day, and his performance for a 1st round pass rusher is concerning. He also is a converted WR or something, I would prefer more seasoning. 

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15 hours ago, NewEra said:

Yup.  Looking like corner.  There are a handful of corners that could be worthy of the 30th selection.  I think surtain and Horn will be gone by the 12th pick.  Farley could be gone by then as well.  Any of these guys could be the pick

 

Farley

Newsome

campbell

Melinfonwu

Stokes

some say Samuel

 

 

In some of those mocks you can do, Horn is making it pretty close to 30. With his injury, Farley could fall, too. If neither of those two are there, I'd take BPA (even if it's Najee Harris) and then trade up in round 2 to get Samuel.

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12 minutes ago, Boxcar said:

In some of those mocks you can do, Horn is making it pretty close to 30. With his injury, Farley could fall, too. If neither of those two are there, I'd take BPA (even if it's Najee Harris) and then trade up in round 2 to get Samuel.

This mocks are stupid.  I don’t see Horn falling passed Philly @12.  He’s a stud and there’s no way he lasts til 30.  Farley would be intriguing and I’d sprint to the podium with hope that he isn’t always injured.  
 

No thanks on Samuel. Good man corner. Not ideal for this scheme.  I’d prefer several other corners to him.

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17 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

So we are supposed to believe the Niners invested three 1st round picks in the 30th ranked prospect Pondering Oh No GIF by New York Red Bulls

Curious if any of the other draft scouts here have really looked at the QB position. Obviously not a need for us, but I always focus most of my time on the QBs just for fun and ended up with an early 3rd round grade on Mac.

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3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

This mocks are stupid.  I don’t see Horn falling passed Philly @12.  He’s a stud and there’s no way he lasts til 30.  Farley would be intriguing and I’d sprint to the podium with hope that he isn’t always injured.  
 

No thanks on Samuel. Good man corner. Not ideal for this scheme.  I’d prefer several other corners to him.

Horn definitely won't last to 30, but I do think he could slide past Philly. I expect one of the WRs to fall in Philly's lap at 12 and I think that'll be very difficult for them to turn down.

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Nice work! It can be tough to come up with a consensus of best players just because there's so many resources out there now. I remember the days where I'd hit up the magazine section in the supermarket and find a couple of draft guides and follow along with those. Nowadays everyone and their mama got a draft website. I actually had an idea for a draft analysis website a while back. It would poll together player rankings from all over the web and then it would determine the average rank of each player. That way, you'd be able to look at one list and know that Website A ranks him as the #2 CB in the class, Website B has him at 4, so on and so forth and you'd be able to see that the player, on average, would rank 3rd on most analysts lists. I still think it's not the worst idea, I just have no idea how to develop it. And now that I've babbled about it on here, someone gonna steal mah intellectual property! So uh, I trademark, copyright, and give the little circled R sign to this idea. Any of y'all steal it and the Underpants Gnomes gonna be on yo case!

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Just now, DCOrange said:

Horn definitely won't last to 30, but I do think he could slide past Philly. I expect one of the WRs to fall in Philly's lap at 12 and I think that'll be very difficult for them to turn down.

Possibly, I just think the top 3 WRs will be gone.  

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16 minutes ago, NewEra said:

This mocks are stupid.  I don’t see Horn falling passed Philly @12.  He’s a stud and there’s no way he lasts til 30.  Farley would be intriguing and I’d sprint to the podium with hope that he isn’t always injured.  
 

No thanks on Samuel. Good man corner. Not ideal for this scheme.  I’d prefer several other corners to him.

There are too many CB needy teams for the top 3 to fall to 30, and, as I said, I don't believe Newsome will be there either.  Teams will do their due diligence on Farley, and someone will grab him before 30 for sure. If you take my stats with more than a grain of salt, there is a 2.5% chance Horn will be available at 30. 

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