A Few Thoughts About the Dolphins Game, in no particular order

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, BRH said:

So, two questions that keep popping up in this thread:

 

(1) Should we or should we not have "run up the score"?

 

and

 

(2) Did Flores handle Tua correctly this season?

 

To the first question:  we didn't run up the score.  They kept their starters in, called timeout when down 29, and played to the end.  They scored two touchdowns in the fourth quarter and wanted more.  We had mostly backups in from the second-half kickoff onward, including a running back who hadn't been on the active roster all season.  Those guys are professionals and they had an opportunity to show their stuff against a first-string defense that was still trying.  When the Dolphins got the ball back and immediately turned it over at midfield, it was the perfect opportunity for a deep strike and we took it.  It's in no way comparable to when Brady was going up top against us when the Pats were up by 40 or whatever.  Just not the same thing.  Plus, we've been crying all season about how the team didn't put opponents away when they had the chance.  Now we feel guilty because we did?  Please.

 

To the second:  I'm a big believer in making young guys clean up their own messes.  As a youth baseball coach it used to drive me crazy when the opposing pitcher would walk two or three guys and their coach would come out and get him (assuming the pitcher wasn't hurt or tired, of course) and bring in a stud to get out of it.  Not because it hurt our team but because it hurt that kid's development.  You made the mess; you have to learn how to clean it up.   When Flores brought in Tua he was saying:  developing this kid is more important than somehow pulling a playoff berth out of our rear ends.  And we might not win as many this year as we would with Fitz, but I'm playing the long game and getting this kid ready for the future.  But he couldn't stick with it.  Winning became more important to him, which is curious because he had so much equity builr up.  Even Fins fans had written this season off and were looking to next year when they would have tons of cap room and multiple first-rounders.  No one would have batted an eye if he had just ridden it out with Fitz, and who knows, they might have stolen a playoff berth after all and given the team (not just Tua) more valuable high-pressure experience.  It's possible that ownership and the front office was jittery because Herbert (who they passed on) was having a breakout rookie season, but Flores should have been strong enough to resist that pressure.  Now they have a real question at QB going into next year, and too much bad tape on Tua to get a first-rounder back for him.  I don't think Flores trusts him, and I don't think Miami thinks he's their guy.  I think they messed this season up and I couldn't be happier.

 

Post of the thread. Agree with you fully on both. 

[wjag]

31 minutes ago, BRH said:

So, two questions that keep popping up in this thread:

 

(1) Should we or should we not have "run up the score"?

 

and

 

(2) Did Flores handle Tua correctly this season?

 

 

 

To the second:  I'm a big believer in making young guys clean up their own messes.  As a youth baseball coach it used to drive me crazy when the opposing pitcher would walk two or three guys and their coach would come out and get him (assuming the pitcher wasn't hurt or tired, of course) and bring in a stud to get out of it.  Not because it hurt our team but because it hurt that kid's development.  You made the mess; you have to learn how to clean it up.   When Flores brought in Tua he was saying:  developing this kid is more important than somehow pulling a playoff berth out of our rear ends.  And we might not win as many this year as we would with Fitz, but I'm playing the long game and getting this kid ready for the future.  But he couldn't stick with it.  Winning became more important to him, which is curious because he had so much equity builr up.  Even Fins fans had written this season off and were looking to next year when they would have tons of cap room and multiple first-rounders.  No one would have batted an eye if he had just ridden it out with Fitz, and who knows, they might have stolen a playoff berth after all and given the team (not just Tua) more valuable high-pressure experience.  It's possible that ownership and the front office was jittery because Herbert (who they passed on) was having a breakout rookie season, but Flores should have been strong enough to resist that pressure.  Now they have a real question at QB going into next year, and too much bad tape on Tua to get a first-rounder back for him.  I don't think Flores trusts him, and I don't think Miami thinks he's their guy.  I think they messed this season up and I couldn't be happier.

 

To Tua or not to Tua, that is the question.  Flores acted like a typical coach in my opinion.  Tua was his draft pick.  He and his cronies wanted to validate their pick.  So, no surprise, they pulled the rug out from Fitzpatrick.  The Miami D in what I consider the most puzzling game of the season beats the Rams.  And then the Cardinals game happened.  The GMFB hype train was running full throttle with "Tua Time."  It was everywhere.  Where the kool aid was drunk in Miami, in my opinion was the H2H with Herbert/Chargers where they played even up against each other and Miami edged out a win.  At this juncture, Miami looks like they can compete with Buffalo for the AFC East.  The Denver game was the pivotal game where Flores changed from developing a player to playing for the playoffs.  Can you blame him?  But in the process, he broke Tua.  In comes Fitz and he looks like everything that Tua is not.  He doesn't win, but gone now is the Tua Time narrative to be replaced with the "relief pitcher" or "the spark." Tua doesn't look the same since.  I think Tua's confidence was shaken.  And then comes Fitz to the rescue with the play of his vagabond, playoff-less career and he beats the Raiders providing the spark that Tua did not have.  Now Tua looks broken.  Flores tried to have it both ways and ended up with what is likely to be the worst defeat of his promising career.  He wasted a brilliant season for the Miami defense.  He has the Miami fan base split between "Tua" or "Not Tua." Covid robbed us and them from knowing what would have, should have, could have been with a Fitz start.  But I think we all know that game would have ended differently- score wise- with a Fitz start.  If Fitz is in there in the second half, I think he leads them on multiple scoring drives.  

Edited January 4, 2021 by wjag

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I have not been impressed with Flores, when they benched Fitz for Tua I thought it was a huge mistake. Miami has a talented football team but I think the coaching will hold them back. I hope Flores is the Miami HC for at least 5 more seasons. 

[Warcodered]

8 minutes ago, wjag said:

 

To Tua or not to Tua, that is the question.  Flores acted like a typical coach in my opinion.  Tua was his draft pick.  He and his cronies wanted to validate their pick.  So, no surprise, they pulled the rug out from Fitzpatrick.  The Miami D in what I consider the most puzzling game of the season beats the Rams.  And then the Cardinals game happened.  The GMFB hype train was running full throttle with "Tua Time."  It was everywhere.  Where the kool aid was drunk in Miami, in my opinion was the H2H with Herbert/Chargers where they played even up against each other and Miami edged out a win.  At this juncture, Miami looks like they can compete with Buffalo for the AFC East.  The Denver game was the pivotal game where Flores changed from developing a player to playing for the playoffs.  Can you blame him?  But in the process, he broke Tua.  In comes Fitz and he looks like everything that Tua is not.  He doesn't win, but gone now is the Tua Time narrative to be replaced with the "relief pitcher" or "the spark." Tua doesn't look the same since.  I think Tua's confidence was shaken.  And then comes Fitz to the rescue with the play of his vagabond, playoff-less career and he beats the Raiders providing the spark that Tua did not have.  Now Tua looks broken.  Flores tried to have it both ways and ended up with what is likely to be the worst defeat of his promising career.  He wasted a brilliant season for the Miami defense.  He has the Miami fan base split between "Tua" or "Not Tua." Covid robbed us and them from knowing what would have, should have, could have been with a Fitz start.  But I think we all know that game would have ended differently- score wise- with a Fitz start.  If Fitz is in there in the second half, I think he leads them on multiple scoring drives.  

I mean the biggest thing he missed out on by pulling Tua all those times is having him collapse like he did against us which sucks but is practically a right of passage for a rookie QB. The worst part is now he doesn't get to try and get him to bounce back and learn from it. Tua has been too gun shy not pushing the ball down the field and today with the picks isn't likely to help. Possibly missing out on a chance to coach the rookie QB up and see how he responds in a year where you have the #3 pick is a huge loss for Miami.

[buffaloboyinATL]

13 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

 

5 - Barkley - No offense to Matt, but if you want to understand just how strong Allen's arm is, watch some of Matt's throws.  First off, I think Matt is one of the biggest cheerleaders on the team.  He was losing his mind on the punt return and the Smoke sideline catch.  I do take issue with his deep ball late to Davis, no matter how beautiful that play was.  We were up big and the game was over.  Let's be better there.  Barkley had one terrible interception, but was overall suitable as a backup in the game.  It was interesting to see the change of pace out there, but you could tell Matt was excited to make play and had no intention of just handing off the ball.

 

6 - Smoke - How good was it to see him back out on the field?  If you wondered how his speed would be affected by the injury, the perfect deep ball from Josh answered that.  He showed his typical cross route and side-line awareness.  If this game only served the purposed of getting his feet wet and letting Josh find his rhythm with him, then mission accomplished.

 

 

While I generally agree with your sentiment about not running up the score by taking the deep shot to Davis, I also think your point about Allen and Brown's chemistry applies.  I think we needed to make sure Barkley is able to keep this Offense operating at a high level in the event he is needed at any point during the playoffs.  Mission accomplished.  Go Bills!

[Success]

I love these write-ups.  And it is amazing what we're experiencing right now. It's like emerging from a dungeon after 20 years - I'm squinting and trying to get used to the bright light again.  But it's a great feeling.

 

I'd like to think that at this point, we can retire the word "Billsy."  There is nothing about this year's team that bears any resemblance at all to most of the teams we saw during the drought.  This team would give our best Kelly-era team a run for its money.

[JoshAllenReceipts]

Minor note:

 

JA17 started the game at WR (not QB) and does NOT get credit for yesterday's Win.

 

His W-L is the same as it was before yesterday.

[Jerome007]

Overall, what impressed me the most is that the Bills made a then 10-5 team fighting for a playoff spot look like the Jets! 

 

 

Daryl Williams on RT has been quietly but surely doing the job.

 

Now Antonio Williams sure made a mark and looked damn good out there...

 

 

1 minute ago, JoshAllenReceipts said:

Minor note:

 

JA17 started the game at WR (not QB) and does NOT get credit for yesterday's Win.

 

His W-L is the same as it was before yesterday.

Yeah I noticed that right away... and didn't like it ha ha

[Doc]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenReceipts said:

Minor note:

 

JA17 started the game at WR (not QB) and does NOT get credit for yesterday's Win.

 

His W-L is the same as it was before yesterday.

 

Not true.  Elias counted it as a QB start.  I thought and posted the same thing but was later corrected.

[JoshAllenReceipts]

18 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Not true.  Elias counted it as a QB start.  I thought and posted the same thing but was later corrected.

 

ProFootballReference has Allen down for 16 starts but a "QBrec" of 12-3 (instead of 13-3)

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, JoshAllenReceipts said:

ProFootballReference has Allen down for 16 starts but a "QBrec" of 12-3 (instead of 13-3)

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm

 

That can change.  Stay tuned.

[Kwai San]

14 hours ago, Virgil said:

9 - Matakevich - I'm not spelling that name, so he will be Tyler going forward (sorry Kroft), but I may have a new favorite back-up player.  Tyler was an absolutely missile out there today.  Kid just made a decision and just ran.  He also did the one thing that consistently drives me nuts about Edwards, and that's initiate contact on catches over the middle.  It seemed like every time someone tried to make a catch over the the middle, Tyler was there.  This kid was playing like he had red bull flowing through his veins.  Just another player who shows the depth this team has.

 

 

TM is the new Lorax - just a bit younger!!!!  What a freaking beast!!!

 

As always Virgil - excellent recap and just amazeballs at how well the Bills are rolling!!!!

 

Go Bills!!!

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said:

No thank you. I’d rather not see the Fitz cycle start over here with an Allen injury. 

Junction, this isn’t the Rob Johnson/Flutie thing.  Allen is the unequivocal starter no matter what.  Fitzy is  38 years old brother.  By next year 39.  Not one guy on this board wants him as a starting QB.  He is just simply the best backup QB in the NFL right now.  Allen has absolutely nothing to fear at all.

[freddyjj]

14 hours ago, Virgil said:

I do take issue with his deep ball late to Davis, no matter how beautiful that play was.  We were up big and the game was over.  Let's be better there. 

Sorry Virgil.  I take issue with this sentiment.  Fins were calling timeouts and had starters in game against our backups.   It is their job on D to shut down Bills.  That is a journeyman backup Bills QB throwing to a rookie backup WR.  Don't like it then stop it.   Saw a quote in the Twitter universe today that the 2nd best team in the AFC East is the Bills 2nd units.  Lol.  

 

Great write up as usual my friend.  Viva Los Bills.   RIP Poncho

 

[warrior9]

14 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

 

8 - Bojo - I really debated making just a special teams thought, but Bojo's punt inside the 1 yard line was as beautiful a punt as I've ever seen.  For a kid who many wanted cut last season, Bojo has gone on to lead the lead in YPP this season.  Granted, he's well rested with this offense, but it has to make you feel better knowing how well we can flip fields in a possession game. 

 

 

Bojo's development is very similar to that of Josh Allen, really. From pretttty darn bad a few years ago to one of the best in the league.

[machine gun kelly]

39 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Sorry Virgil.  I take issue with this sentiment.  Fins were calling timeouts and had starters in game against our backups.   It is their job on D to shut down Bills.  That is a journeyman backup Bills QB throwing to a rookie backup WR.  Don't like it then stop it.   Saw a quote in the Twitter universe today that the 2nd best team in the AFC East is the Bills 2nd units.  Lol.  

 

Great write up as usual my friend.  Viva Los Bills.   RIP Poncho

 

Virg., I almost always agree with you 100%, but Sal said it best 5is morning on the pt. After.  We were pulling guys left and right, Babe is our 4th WR.  No White, Hughes, Beasely (I know injury) main guys coming out at or by the end of the first half.  Fins, if you can’t beat our backups, tough cookies.  It sucked when we had a beaten up line in 04, and the Stillers beat us with backups, but honestly, we weren’t good enough.

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, Professor Worthington said:

Maybe statistically, but shouldn’t a coach be able to read the body language of his players?  They were getting pummeled:  out-physicaled and outrun.  The QB was a hot mess.  He needed to fold up his tent and get the hell out of Buffalo.

We scored 28 in a half.  They're an NFL team and can score 29.

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, Jerome007 said:

Overall, what impressed me the most is that the Bills made a then 10-5 team fighting for a playoff spot look like the Jets! 

 

 

Daryl Williams on RT has been quietly but surely doing the job.

I gotta say, the Bills O line has been doing a super job this season! While keeping the pocket clean and giving Allen more than enough time to find an open receiver.

 

Really, really impressed with the job they are all doing on that line. Team penalties against the Phins 3 for 16 yards! Now that's discipline.

 

This game wasn't the Ravens against the 4-11-1 Bengals. Or the Browns against starters being rested. Or the Colts playing against a 1-15 Jags team.

 

That Dolphins defense was the #1 points allowed and the #1 in turnovers. They ended the season at +9. 

 

The Buffalo Bills absolutely destroyed them... Josh Allen 224 passing yards, 3 TDs in the first half before they sat him. The only reason Miami scored 26 was because the Bills rested their starters in the second half. 

 

Buffalo, hottest team in the NFL IMO

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

While I generally agree with your sentiment about not running up the score by taking the deep shot to Davis, I also think your point about Allen and Brown's chemistry applies.  I think we needed to make sure Barkley is able to keep this Offense operating at a high level in the event he is needed at any point during the playoffs.  Mission accomplished.  Go Bills!

 

Someone posted it on twitter but on that play, at the snap, miami had 11 players within 5 yards of the LOS.  Running it there is basically just kneeling it.  

[maddenboy]

5 hours ago, The Poojer said:

I don’t think we intentionally ran up the score.  We had second team in there and they just kept giving us the ball back via turnovers and downs.  Can’t ask the second team to not play.

And Allen following Williams (?) hand up waiting for a return high five was epic.

This !!

 

I was thinking how cool JA is for that.  "I'm not so good or so cool that I cant follow a rookie to get my 5.  And I'm going to get this 5, because I'm the team leader.  You need to get this 5 from me, maybe more than I need it.  I need all my troops to feel that I am their natural leader."

[The Poojer]

 

 

4 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

This !!

 

I was thinking how cool JA is for that.  "I'm not so good or so cool that I cant follow a rookie to get my 5.  And I'm going to get this 5, because I'm the team leader.  You need to get this 5 from me, maybe more than I need it.  I need all my troops to feel that I am their natural leader."

[SoTier]

15 hours ago, Virgil said:

It wasn't supposed to be like this.  Yes, quite a few locked playoff teams played their starters to gain better seeding positioning and we did pull the majority of our guys by halftime.  We were playing a playoff hopeful team that had many fans worried could surge mid-way through the season and threaten as AFC East champions.  With that, there was no way we would absolutely humiliate and destroy the Dolphins, right?  We aren't that level of elite team, are we? 

   .....

 

Honestly, I don't even know what to say about this team anymore.  I wasn't expecting this game nor the back-half of this season.  If, at the beginning of the season, I told you to pick one of the following to be true, which would you pick:

-Bojo leads the NFL in yards per punt

-Bass breaks teams single season point record

-Allen breaks the single season passing record

-Allen breaks the single season TD record

-Allen has almost 5k total yards and 46 total touchdowns

-Diggs leads the NFL in total receptions

-Diggs leads the NFL in total yards

-Bills score over 500 points

-Bills are 13-3, easily could have been 14-2

-Allen is a legitimate MVP candidate

 

The fact that all of those are true is simply astounding.  We are the team that no one wants to face in the playoffs.  We are the offensive juggernaut with a defense that creates turnovers and a special teams that flips field position.  It's amazing.  Just amazing.

 

Go Bills!

 

Absolutely dead on, Virgil!     The Bills have been on an offensive rampage this season, and they've gotten better as the season's gone on.  The defense struggled early on, but now that's gotten into high gear ... and yesterday, they demonstrated that their STs ain't no weak sister, either!  They wiped the stadium turf with a good Dolphins team.   They could have beaten anybody yesterday.  

 

I can't imagine that any Bills fans truly thought that this team would be this good ... or even could be this good  ... this year or maybe any year.   I have been repeatedly impressed and increasingly amazed by the Bills in the second half of the season.   I remember the Glory Years teams, and it used to pain me to watch tapes of those teams and be reminded of how much better those 90s teams were compared to the trash teams the Bills fielded for most of the 2000s.   It's hard to compare teams from different eras, but I think the 2020 Bills are at least as good as those SB teams from the 1990s, and they may be very well be much better.

 

Go Bills!

 

 

[Virgil]

20 minutes ago, The Poojer said:

 

 

 

I know, I know.......

 

I almost went back and updated the original post to put a bonus thought about him.  It's hard for me because he's not going to take time from Motor or Moss and he did it against a broken Dolphins defense.  He was still very impressive and would love to see him get more time

[Buffalo Junction]

3 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Junction, this isn’t the Rob Johnson/Flutie thing.  Allen is the unequivocal starter no matter what.  Fitzy is  38 years old brother.  By next year 39.  Not one guy on this board wants him as a starting QB.  He is just simply the best backup QB in the NFL right now.  Allen has absolutely nothing to fear at all.

I was joking around about the injury part of the cycle which begins the process. The only way Fitz could actually usurp Allen is with an Alex Smith or Teddy Bridgewater type of catastrophe. ✊ 🪵. Was trying to say that without saying it. 

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

 

I know, I know.......

 

I almost went back and updated the original post to put a bonus thought about him.  It's hard for me because he's not going to take time from Motor or Moss and he did it against a broken Dolphins defense.  He was still very impressive and would love to see him get more time

He earned a camp spot and an opportunity to show what he can do next year. Damn good showing, and I hope we don’t need him until OTAs. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

 

I know, I know.......

 

I almost went back and updated the original post to put a bonus thought about him.  It's hard for me because he's not going to take time from Motor or Moss and he did it against a broken Dolphins defense.  He was still very impressive and would love to see him get more time

 

The hole for the one TD was so massive I feel any running back could have scored.  

[machine gun kelly]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

I was joking around about the injury part of the cycle which begins the process. The only way Fitz could actually usurp Allen is with an Alex Smith or Teddy Bridgewater type of catastrophe. ✊ 🪵. Was trying to say that without saying it. 

He earned a camp spot and an opportunity to show what he can do next year. Damn good showing, and I hope we don’t need him until OTAs. 

My fault Junction.  I was shocked, but get the sarcasm.  💪😇. If we had Fitzy, I’d roll with two next year and just Stowe Fromm on  the PS.  I swear Fitz could pronpbably play for a couple of years even at his age.  Besides, talk about the best fan favorite backup to Allen since May God be with You Reich.

[IslandBillsFan]

Does anyone know where I can watch the full Bills Dolphins replay?  Sunday Ticket already has all the content down.  There are a couple plays that I am trying to review (not big highlights.)  Any ideas?

[timekills17]

22 minutes ago, IslandBillsFan said:

Does anyone know where I can watch the full Bills Dolphins replay?  Sunday Ticket already has all the content down.  There are a couple plays that I am trying to review (not big highlights.)  Any ideas?

 

Not sure if we're allowed to put a link to another fan forum here, so remove if necessary.

I used to post these here as well, but one of the mods has a problem with it, and since I only do this for my fellow deployed fans, I didn't want to upset the board mods, so I quit. That is why I'll put the other site's post up rather than the link to my site specifically.

 

http://www.billievers.com/forums/showthread.php/41662-2020-Bills-Games-40-Minute-Condensed-Versions

 

P.S. it has the full game for most of the weeks as well as the "40-minute/condensed version" too.

Edited January 7, 2021 by timekills17

[Irv]

On 1/3/2021 at 10:51 PM, Big Turk said:

@Virgil I take no issue with Barkley to Davis late in the game. That was a message sent to Flores to stop playing games and calling timeouts when they are trying to run the clock out on the ground.

 

You want to keep calling timeouts to try and get the ball back? Fine. We will just put up another 7 and now you can have the ball back.

So far this is my favorite post of the year.