The Bills and Patrick Mahomes

[BADOLBILZ]

35 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think objectively on the face of bulk offensive statistics added to specifics of play calls, one can make a good case.  

 

 

The point being made in my post was that when evaluating what type of HC/OC situation Mahomes was drafted into, it is more relevant to look at the years immediately preceding his first starting season, rather than go back to Philly. 

Is that a point you really want to argue?  If considering what kind of employee you would make, we shouldn't look at, say, your most recent 2-3 years, we should go back 6-10?  Would anyone reasonable want to argue that?

 

 

 

The more commonly held belief is that having been Brett Favre's QB coach 20 years prior gave Reid a blueprint on how to best handle Mahomes.    Favre was the comp.    

 

I definitely reject the idea that Reid had finally evolved into an offensive mind.    That's not on point at all if that was the point you were trying to make.  

 

It doesn't sound to me like you were very aware of Reid's past or watched enough KC football in 2017 and 2018 to hear this stuff over and over and over...........you just box score scouted and saw that KC's offensive numbers were up for a couple seasons.    

 

 

 

 

[Zerovoltz]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

1) I don't think I'd characterize Reid as evolving as a HC thru 2017.

 

He was still enigmatic offensively...........he had years in Philly where he had no receivers but still made his QB's look good.........then he had years where his offenses inexplicably underachieved.    He was no "genius" he literally went a punchless 4-12 with effectively the same talent that Chip Kelly then went 10-6 with and lead the NFL in big plays with.   

 

He was consistent at 3 things.........fielding competitive teams one way or another.........then getting upset by lesser talented teams in the playoffs..........and of course his terrible clock management.

 

His evolution was getting a GOAT-like QB.  

 

2) As for that Bills defense.........they went into that Chiefs game coming off the worst 3 game defensive stretch in team history.    But all that Chiefs talent failed to take advantage of all the Cedric Thornton's and Phil Humber's and Eddie Yarborough's in that lineup.   It was a pretty shocking turn of events. 

 

3) I have no problem with people saying that Mahomes was put into a good situation..........but the point is SO overstated.   

 

Do you suppose in some other market there is a fan saying.........."well you know Allen had a great situation because Brian Daboll was a national championship winning OC who worked alongside Tom Brady for 8 years and then put together this great passing offense that allowed Josh Allen to lead the NFL in passing yardage thru 10 weeks in 2020!   Of course he's great......he had it made!"

 

If you ignore A LOT of the other facts about Daboll's history.......as many Bills apologists do with Reid......then what's wrong with THAT narrative?   

 

 

 

I have to laugh at this.....you should see the Denver Bronco fans saying this EXACTLY about Allen....and how Allen would have failed in Denver....etc etc.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The more commonly held belief is that having been Brett Favre's QB coach 20 years prior gave Reid a blueprint on how to best handle Mahomes.    Favre was the comp.    

 

I definitely reject the idea that Reid had finally evolved into an offensive mind.    That's not on point at all if that was the point you were trying to make.  

 

It doesn't sound to me like you were very aware of Reid's past or watched enough KC football in 2017 and 2018 to hear this stuff over and over and over...........you just box score scouted and saw that KC's offensive numbers were up for a couple seasons.   

 

You'd be mistaken

[Rochesterfan]

I just think all of this speculation is silly - fun, but silly - and no one should be hurt over it because that is all it is speculation.

 

1) No one knows what actually would have happened had Mahomes been drafted to that Bills team.  What we do know is instead of learning under Alex Smith (career year) and Andy Reid as OC with an offensive oriented team - he would have learned under Rick Dennison (OC) with Tyrod Taylor as his mentor on a Defensive oriented team.  I just do not see the growth potential there that he had in KC.

 

2) A few people in the organization know exactly what was going on, but even those of us on the outside recognized that Whaley was done after that terrible end of year press conference.  There was no way that McDermott was going to entrust the drafting at that point to Whaley and Monos (it was even noted that McDermott did not even trust the Bills draft board) and basically Whaley was just a glorified page to make calls and field calls for McDermott.  So whatever the article tries to say about what Whaley and Monos thought about Mahomes - it really matters very little - they were not really involved once McDermott took over - so everything they say is all coated with knowing the outcome because they were not making the choices and after the draft - they and the scouts were all let go and said they had little input into the entire draft.

 

3) Pegula may have been slamming his fist to draft Mahomes, but there is little proof of that.  Pegula hired McDermott with an obvious plan to go out and get him a GM that he was comfortable with.  I can’t imagine that Pegula at that point was watching film and able to identify talent that really based on pre draft assessment would have been over drafted by 10 spots.  I can believe that on their evaluation trips - he may have like Mahomes, but I really do not see pounding the table and saying Mahomes would have been a good fit in Buffalo.  They did say that exact thing when talking about Allen - not only was Allen a good player, but they believe he was a culture and community fit.

 

In the end - the article is whatever.  Ty Dunne was a decent writer at TBN, but I don’t believe he had the information or leeway to write something like this.  Now he can freelance and take what he has heard and mix-in what he thinks and create a totally speculative article without having to go through an editorial group and cross check references.

 

People can believe what they want - it is part of the problem with Internet media - whatever opinion you hold - no matter how obscure- you can find a article that fits it.

I look at it this way.  The Bills were in position to draft Mahomes (along with 10 other teams), but chose not to.  They took a package that made senses for the new leadership team.  That group then identified their franchise QB in the next draft and went and got him.  We can forever look at Mahomes and Allen, but trying to compare what would have happened is just too much for me unless someone has been to that alternate universe and can provide absolute feedback.  
 

What I know from listening to and talking with lots of former players - who drafts you and the team and style you go to matters.  Players put in a great situation excel and go on to have great careers and players drafted to bad teams at all positions can fail. We know Mahomes in KC was drafted into an ideal situation- we have no idea if Buffalo pulled that trigger how the different situation would have worked out, but there is very little to suggest the lack of WR talent would have allowed him the same type of growth.

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

 

Do you suppose in some other market there is a fan saying.........."well you know Allen had a great situation because Brian Daboll was a national championship winning OC who worked alongside Tom Brady for 8 years and then put together this great passing offense that allowed Josh Allen to lead the NFL in passing yardage thru 10 weeks in 2020!   Of course he's great......he had it made!"

 

If you ignore A LOT of the other facts about Daboll's history.......as many Bills apologists do with Reid......then what's wrong with THAT narrative?   

 

 

Actually in fact there are a lot of fan bases that think that exact thing about Allen.  The various Jets message boards have that debate all the time - what would have happened if they drafted Allen and we had Darnold.  The assumption is Darnold would have succeeded because of Daboll and stability and Allen would have struggled in that mess.

 

I have seen Browns boards wonder about Allen versus Mayfield and would they have been better off with Allen or if Allen is a product of Daboll’s system.

 

The Broncos are another message board that thinks and wonders if Elway missed on that call.

 

Most seem to agree that Allen (like Mahomes) is in a good situation now and that has allowed him to become the player he is.  No one knows what would of happened on any of these other teams.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Rochesterfan

[QLBillsFan]

Any argument that Reid wasn’t a good O coach is not wanting to see the facts. In Philly his O was explosive and made Westbrook a star. KC certainly was solid. He was a top 6-8 O for 8 or 10 years. And yes that helped Mahomes. 

[Putin]

Man I hope Allen WINS a SB real soon! So sick of  these Mahomes  threads that keep reappearing once a month ...

 

[Einstein's Dog]

My thoughts on the article:

1.  The title says "The Pressure is on Josh Allen".  The pressure is not on JA anymore.  JA's pressure this year was to improve and hopefully bring home a division title.  JA is well on the way to achieving those goals.

2.  The article seems to diss both J Allen and McDermott.  I don't agree.

3.  McDermott is dissed by being cast as the man that wouldn't allow the Pegula's wish for Mahomes.  The extension to McDermott suggests any bad blood is buried.  Year over year improvement can do that.

4.  The article is more sneaky about dissing J Allen.  Trolling J Allen gets clicks.  The article underscores J Allen's improvement and accomplishments.  One example is the description in the Rams game.  "A phantom pass interference penalty" .    That's a troll job.  That was a clear grab at the goal line.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You'd be mistaken

 

 

I don't know about that.........but apparently you'd be mistaken about the analogy I made.........it's a thing.

 

Every fan base that isn't winning SB's has these type of laments and in that case we tend to see the good fortune and functionality of other situations that we view from afar.

 

Andy Reid is an outstanding HC to Bills fans.......he got teams to the playoffs(sometimes at our expense).........but I know a lot of Eagles fans........and every one wanted him gone when he was fired..........and the frustration was mounting in KC.........Reid's job was probably saved by Brett Veach's obsession with Mahomes.........it wasn't destined for him to just keep one-and-done-ing in KC.   

 

And of course.......even when we are winning we tend to take what we have for granted........like it was the minimum owed us.

 

My uncle was a dentist in Topeka Kansas and during the Bills SB years.   I remember him telling me how embittered KC fans were about the 1983 draft where their rival Denver was able to trade up and get Elway(who tormented them for 2 decades) and then the indignity of the Chiefs passing on both Kelly and Marino for Todd Blackledge at #7 overall.    

 

Yet I've never once heard a Bills fan say "thank God the Chiefs took Blackledge".

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

43 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

 

4.  The article is more sneaky about dissing J Allen.  Trolling J Allen gets clicks.  The article underscores J Allen's improvement and accomplishments.  One example is the description in the Rams game.  "A phantom pass interference penalty" .    That's a troll job.  That was a clear grab at the goal line.

 

 

Allen is one of the most popular players in the league now.

 

This "the media is out to get Josh Allen" stuff is pretty comical.

 

I think you are confusing Josh Allen actually being a big factor in the landscape of the league with him being under attack.

 

[Einstein's Dog]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Allen is one of the most popular players in the league now.

 

This "the media is out to get Josh Allen" stuff is pretty comical.

 

I think you are confusing Josh Allen actually being a big factor in the landscape of the league with him being under attack.

 

My comment was not "the media is out to get Josh Allen".  It was this article was out to downplay JA's achievements and improvement.  I gave an example of how the slight by his referencing of the pass  interference call as "phantom".  It was a blatant pass interference in a game where an atrocious interception was called.

 

I think you are confusing how Josh Allen is being portrayed in the general media with the specific article being reviewed.

[ToGoGo]

You want to know how Patrick Mahomes would be in Buffalo if we drafted him?

 

He would be Jack Eichel. A superstar player stuck on a team he can't take over the hump. The national media and fans would be clamoring for him to leave Buffalo and go to a team he can win with.

 

Even now, nobody gives Josh Allen the credit he deserves. He proved himself in an impossible situation. To this day, Mahomes hasn't faced 10% the adversity that Allen faced in year one.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

21 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I’m tired of this talk. Mahomes would not have found the success here that he has found in KC. No way he would he have been good with the supporting cast and coaching that was here at the time. You don’t just take a guy that was put into a great situation and put him in a bad one and expect the same results.

I think this is a story we tell ourselves to make it feel better.

 

I think he would have been great anywhere, right away, sit or no sit. 
 

His vision is unrivaled. 

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Allen is one of the most popular players in the league now.

 

This "the media is out to get Josh Allen" stuff is pretty comical.

 

I think you are confusing Josh Allen actually being a big factor in the landscape of the league with him being under attack.

 

 

It really is. I swear we have people who seek negative comments about Allen and then obsess over them and tune out the positive. 

 

I have asked it before and it is not fair for me to definitively state it having never been there but I get the sense it might be a Buffalo thing? That maybe some Bills fans kinda prefer being cast as the overlooked underdog that is railing against the system and cling to that a bit? I might be totally off base but that is a bit how it feels.

12 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Actually in fact there are a lot of fan bases that think that exact thing about Allen.  The various Jets message boards have that debate all the time - what would have happened if they drafted Allen and we had Darnold.  The assumption is Darnold would have succeeded because of Daboll and stability and Allen would have struggled in that mess.

 

I have seen Browns boards wonder about Allen versus Mayfield and would they have been better off with Allen or if Allen is a product of Daboll’s system.

 

The Broncos are another message board that thinks and wonders if Elway missed on that call.

 

Most seem to agree that Allen (like Mahomes) is in a good situation now and that has allowed him to become the player he is.  No one knows what would of happened on any of these other teams.

 

There are people in NFL organisations who believe close to this. Not that Allen is a product of a system as such but he has benefitted greatly from a stable organisation with a buttoned up Head Coach, a GM who has put pieces around him and the same OC to develop him for 3 years. It is why Brian Daboll, whatever Bills fans do or don't like about him, is going to be on a lot of HC interview lists in 6 weeks time.

[Billzgobowlin]

Good article.  I doubt the Bills would have played out the same way in fact they probably would have ruined Mahomes.  Andy Reid was the right coach for him.  On the other hand Allen is a Buffalo QB.  I think it played out well.

[whorlnut]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think this is a story we tell ourselves to make it feel better.

 

I think he would have been great anywhere, right away, sit or no sit. 
 

His vision is unrivaled. 

Maybe so, but I truly believe it. Most players in any sport are products of their environments. I’m not saying he isn’t great, because that’s silly. I just think he was put in the perfect spot to realize his potential. 

[Mat68]

Idk about that.  Sounds to me two guys want back in the league.  Two guys, would really want a positive recommendation from their previous ownership.  I question alot of this.  Terry, a guy who doesnt really follow football, or until recently, watches Big12 football?  Watches Texas Tech?  Loves Mahomes...  I like the narrative that Mcdermott stopped everyone from taking Mahomes too.  Maybe he did.  If this is the case Mcdermott will be the most successful coach in Bills history.  The fortitude day one to go against your owner, trim the over priced talent and still make the playoffs is wild.  

[JoshAllenReceipts]

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Allen is one of the most popular players in the league now.

 

This "the media is out to get Josh Allen" stuff is pretty comical.

 

I think you are confusing Josh Allen actually being a big factor in the landscape of the league with him being under attack.

 

 

Clearly, you are the one who is confused. Everything u just said is 100% incorrect.

[JoshAllenReceipts]

15 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Actually in fact there are a lot of fan bases that think that exact thing about Allen.  The various Jets message boards have that debate all the time - what would have happened if they drafted Allen and we had Darnold.  The assumption is Darnold would have succeeded because of Daboll and stability and Allen would have struggled in that mess.

 

I have seen Browns boards wonder about Allen versus Mayfield and would they have been better off with Allen or if Allen is a product of Daboll’s system.

 

The Broncos are another message board that thinks and wonders if Elway missed on that call.

 

Most seem to agree that Allen (like Mahomes) is in a good situation now and that has allowed him to become the player he is.  No one knows what would of happened on any of these other teams.

 

 

Brian Daboll absolutely sucks as a Coach...Brian Daboll is a product of Josh Allen. 

 

Allen is a significantly better QB than Darnold and Mayfield in ANY situation/team. There's no comparison at all. It's not even close.

[Mango]

I actually really liked the “one man optical illusion. He is whatever you choose to see” line. It’s probably the best description of the last 2 years of Allen’s career. I don’t think there is a ton of debate on how well he has performed when you look at the season as a whole. 
 

In regards to the Mahomes trade. I think this story uses some more aggressive language, but we’ve known for a while that Whaley and Co wanted either Mahomes or Watson. It’s been covered since  draft day. 

[JoshAllenReceipts]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

I actually really liked the “one man optical illusion. He is whatever you choose to see” line. It’s probably the best description of the last 2 years of Allen’s career. I don’t think there is a ton of debate on how well he has performed when you look at the season as a whole. 
 

In regards to the Mahomes trade. I think this story uses some more aggressive language, but we’ve known for a while that Whaley and Co wanted either Mahomes or Watson. It’s been covered since  draft day. 

 

Except he's not an optical illusion at all.

 

He is what everyone sees - a great NFL QB.

 

You do realize that calling him an "optimal illusion" is a diss, right?

 

Is Patrick Mahomes an optical illusion? Is Russell Wilson an optical illusion? Is Aaron Rodgers an optical illusion? Clearly, no. And neither is Allen. They're all just great QBs - there is no illusion.

 

 

14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Allen is one of the most popular players in the league now.

 

This "the media is out to get Josh Allen" stuff is pretty comical.

 

I think you are confusing Josh Allen actually being a big factor in the landscape of the league with him being under attack.

 

 

1000% wrong

 

 

Just look at the picture of the article. It's a pic of Allen on the back of a buffalo. The inference is that Bufallo carries Allen. 

 

The exact inverse is the truth here, actually: Josh Allen carries Buffallo on his back.

 

The picture should be a buffalo on the back of Josh Allen.

Edited November 27, 2020 by JoshAllenReceipts

[JoshAllenReceipts]

On 11/25/2020 at 3:20 PM, RochesterLifer said:

 I'm pretty comfortable with my reading comprehension skills and do not feel the need to reread the article "in greater detail". While I may not possess glamorous LinkedIn connections, my literacy level is just fine, thank you. 

 

 

No offense but, you do have reading problems if you can't see that this is clearly a hit piece on Allen.

 

Read the article again. More carefully this time. You'll see it....hopefully.

[Doc]

Good to hear that Terry liked Mahomes.  I'm fine with Josh and would like to see him in Reid's/the Chief's system, and would have liked to see Mahomes in the Bills' offense the previous in 2017 and 2018. 

[purple haze]

On 11/25/2020 at 7:17 AM, Chuck Wagon said:

My god, I could not imagine being in Pegula's shoes, knowing you desperately wanted Mahomes but allowed your football people to do their job and now you are forced to watch him ascend to potentially the GOAT status from a distance on a pick you traded away.

At the same time, situations are different.  Was Andy Reid on McDermott’s staff?  Did the Bills have the same offensive pieces?  Mahomes is great in KC.  Doesn’t mean the Bills situation would have led to the same success at an early stage of his career.  

[Mango]

On 11/25/2020 at 12:56 PM, JoshAllenReceipts said:

 

Just take my word for it. Me and Tyler Dunne are connected on LinkedIn. He knows me. I have inside info.

 

I already put this on my mother and grandmother's grave. Take it or leave it..

 

Either believe in the truth, or believe in total BS. Choice is yours.

I just added him on LinkedIn and he accepted. Can I start posting gibberish too now?

[JoshAllenReceipts]

43 minutes ago, Mango said:

I just added him on LinkedIn and he accepted. Can I start posting gibberish too now?

 

I'm not posting jibberish.

 

I'm posting facts.

 

LinkedIn isn't the ONLY connection between me and Dunne. That's just 1 of them. You're just choosing to focus on that 1 little snippet, not realizing it goes much deeper than that.

 

Either way, I am 1000% correct and this is not up for debate. Uve got 2 choices:

 

1) Believe in a complete lie (the article)

 

2) Believe in the complete truth (what Im telling you as an insider with inside info)

 

Choice is yours.

 

 

52 minutes ago, purple haze said:

At the same time, situations are different.  Was Andy Reid on McDermott’s staff?  Did the Bills have the same offensive pieces?  Mahomes is great in KC.  Doesn’t mean the Bills situation would have led to the same success at an early stage of his career.  

 

Exactly. Mahomes probably would not be great if drafted by Buffalo. Allen is still the more talented QB.

Edited November 27, 2020 by JoshAllenReceipts

[stuvian]

only SB win will quell the chatter and it is now within the realm of reality

[purple haze]

15 minutes ago, JoshAllenReceipts said:

 

I'm not posting jibberish.

 

I'm posting facts.

 

LinkedIn isn't the ONLY connection between me and Dunne. That's just 1 of them. You're just choosing to focus on that 1 little snippet, not realizing it goes much deeper than that.

 

Either way, I am 1000% correct and this is not up for debate. Uve got 2 choices:

 

1) Believe in a complete lie (the article)

 

2) Believe in the complete truth (what Im telling you as an insider with inside info)

 

Choice is yours.

 

 

 

Exactly. Mahomes probably would not be great if drafted by Buffalo. Allen is still the more talented QB.

More talented in what way?  As physically talented?  Yes.  As good?  Not yet.  

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Good article.  I doubt the Bills would have played out the same way in fact they probably would have ruined Mahomes.  Andy Reid was the right coach for him.  On the other hand Allen is a Buffalo QB.  I think it played out well.

 

 

Or.........

 

Tyrod gets benched for Mahomes in Saints game in 2017.

 

Mahomes plays well........Dennison talks McDermott into making Mahomes the starting QB........Mahomes throws 5 TD's in the first half against the Chargers and Bills go on a tear from there........Bills go on Marrone's run instead of the Jags and make it to the AFC Championship in Mahomes' rookie year.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It really is. I swear we have people who seek negative comments about Allen and then obsess over them and tune out the positive. 

 

I have asked it before and it is not fair for me to definitively state it having never been there but I get the sense it might be a Buffalo thing? That maybe some Bills fans kinda prefer being cast as the overlooked underdog that is railing against the system and cling to that a bit? I might be totally off base but that is a bit how it feels.

 

 

 

Extremes.........like "the drought" for Bills fans........tend to cause radical mindsets.........which is how Bills fans got the "mafia"-like reputation.

 

There are a lot of people in the media who just don't think it's worth the time or emotional distress on their social media accounts to criticize the Bills....so it's not totally ineffective.

 

But this is a closed circle of fans here.........there are only a handful of non-Bills fans involved in the discussion........we don't really need to be screaming "fake news!" at each other.

 

 

[Shaw66]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It really is. I swear we have people who seek negative comments about Allen and then obsess over them and tune out the positive. 

 

I have asked it before and it is not fair for me to definitively state it having never been there but I get the sense it might be a Buffalo thing? That maybe some Bills fans kinda prefer being cast as the overlooked underdog that is railing against the system and cling to that a bit? I might be totally off base but that is a bit how it feels.

 

There are people in NFL organisations who believe close to this. Not that Allen is a product of a system as such but he has benefitted greatly from a stable organisation with a buttoned up Head Coach, a GM who has put pieces around him and the same OC to develop him for 3 years. It is why Brian Daboll, whatever Bills fans do or don't like about him, is going to be on a lot of HC interview lists in 6 weeks time.

I think you're correct about these things. 

 

The level of stomach upset this article has caused, or this discussion, is really surprising to me.  I read the article, quickly, I'll admit, and got no impression that it was any kind of hit job on Allen, McDermott or anyone else.  It's just some history that Dunne wrote based on some conversations he had with guys who were involved with managing the team at what is now an interesting point in the history of the Bills.  

 

I agreed with the post that recited the Michael Jordan draft history.  If you're a team that passed on Jordan and you sucked for the next ten years, well, yeah, then it's fair to sit around and talk about what a monumental screwup that was.   But if you skipped Jordan and built a winner with other players, it's fun to talk about the what-ifs.   We all can argue about whether the Bills have built a winner - some might say it's too early and some others might say it's only a matter of time, but the Bills are much closer to having built a winner than maybe any of us imagined.  And I think that is exactly the perspective that the article takes.  It's not suggesting the Bills are doomed because they passed on Mahomes; to the contrary, to the extent it talks about the present, it acknowledges that it looks like the Bills have something special happening. 

 

Mahomes looks like an extraordinary talent, once in a generation or once in a lifetime, maybe the absolute GOAT, and from that perspective, anyone who didn't take him blew it.   But dozens of fan bases are in that situation with Mahomes or Jordan or Brady or name a few others.  I really don't think that's the point.  The only question is "how is your team doing," and in the case of the Bills, the answer is "just fine, thank you."  

 

It may be a Bills thing, borne of decades of failure, including the failure of Kelly's teams to take the final step, and even the failure of the Bills to make it to Super Bowl I.   Even in the Bills' greatest eras, they didn't quite make it.  Then, on top of all that history, we had the drought and the scorn of pretty much all NFL fans outside of Bills fans.  Nobody treated the Bills like they were relevant, and it continues to be somewhat true with the Bills at 7-3.  I think some Bills fans may have come to believe all that crap from around the country and from the press, and it shows up in threads like this.  

 

If the Bills are a top team for the next ten years, which I think they will be if McBeane stay, and if Allen is a top 5 QB for the next ten years, which I think he will be, and if the Chiefs and Mahomes are there, too, which also is a good bet, no one is going to be sitting around bemoaning the fact that the Bills didn't take Mahomes.  No one.  Do you think there are any Colts fans who, when they reminisce, are saying "Heck, the Colts should have passed on Manning and taken Charles Woodson instead, then taken Brady a couple of years later"?   I mean, that's ridiculous.  

 

This is just an article about history, and interesting little period of history.  It's not an article that is anything more than incidentally critical about anyone, including McDermott and Allen.  

[PrimeTime101]

[JoshAllenReceipts]

26 minutes ago, purple haze said:

More talented in what way?  As physically talented?  Yes.  As good?  Not yet.  

 

Allen is MORE physically talented than Mahomes, not "as". 

 

1) The ability to run with the ball and pick up short-yardage runs (3rd and 1, 4th and 1). QB Power is in the playbook.

 

2) Stronger velocity on his throws outside the hash marks

 

3) Does it without Andy Reid, the Godfather of the West Coast Offense. Carries his entire city and organization on his back - Mahomes does not do that. Kansas City is Mahomes and Reid. Buffalo is just Allen. Allen has no Andy Reid.

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think you're correct about these things. 

 

The level of stomach upset this article has caused, or this discussion, is really surprising to me.  I read the article, quickly, I'll admit, and got no impression that it was any kind of hit job on Allen, McDermott or anyone else.  It's just some history that Dunne wrote based on some conversations he had with guys who were involved with managing the team at what is now an interesting point in the history of the Bills.  

 

I agreed with the post that recited the Michael Jordan draft history.  If you're a team that passed on Jordan and you sucked for the next ten years, well, yeah, then it's fair to sit around and talk about what a monumental screwup that was.   But if you skipped Jordan and built a winner with other players, it's fun to talk about the what-ifs.   We all can argue about whether the Bills have built a winner - some might say it's too early and some others might say it's only a matter of time, but the Bills are much closer to having built a winner than maybe any of us imagined.  And I think that is exactly the perspective that the article takes.  It's not suggesting the Bills are doomed because they passed on Mahomes; to the contrary, to the extent it talks about the present, it acknowledges that it looks like the Bills have something special happening. 

 

Mahomes looks like an extraordinary talent, once in a generation or once in a lifetime, maybe the absolute GOAT, and from that perspective, anyone who didn't take him blew it.   But dozens of fan bases are in that situation with Mahomes or Jordan or Brady or name a few others.  I really don't think that's the point.  The only question is "how is your team doing," and in the case of the Bills, the answer is "just fine, thank you."  

 

It may be a Bills thing, borne of decades of failure, including the failure of Kelly's teams to take the final step, and even the failure of the Bills to make it to Super Bowl I.   Even in the Bills' greatest eras, they didn't quite make it.  Then, on top of all that history, we had the drought and the scorn of pretty much all NFL fans outside of Bills fans.  Nobody treated the Bills like they were relevant, and it continues to be somewhat true with the Bills at 7-3.  I think some Bills fans may have come to believe all that crap from around the country and from the press, and it shows up in threads like this.  

 

If the Bills are a top team for the next ten years, which I think they will be if McBeane stay, and if Allen is a top 5 QB for the next ten years, which I think he will be, and if the Chiefs and Mahomes are there, too, which also is a good bet, no one is going to be sitting around bemoaning the fact that the Bills didn't take Mahomes.  No one.  Do you think there are any Colts fans who, when they reminisce, are saying "Heck, the Colts should have passed on Manning and taken Charles Woodson instead, then taken Brady a couple of years later"?   I mean, that's ridiculous.  

 

This is just an article about history, and interesting little period of history.  It's not an article that is anything more than incidentally critical about anyone, including McDermott and Allen.  

 

It's a complete hit job on Allen.

 

The article literally asks, "Is Josh Allen good?" - That is an insulting question to ask and is a direct shot at Allen.

 

No, of course he isn't "good". Josh Allen is special, spectacular, generational, incredible, dominant, transcendent, a unicorn, and is on a trajectory that could make him the Greatest Of All Time.

 

Article: "Is Josh Allen good?"

 

Bills fans: "This isn't a hit piece on Allen!"

 

SMH

[PrimeTime101]

11 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

So i was going to just leave a shrugging josh in this topic and move on but for some reason my fingers' gravitated back.

I went back and read it again. Much of this article is opinionated followed by fact. KC and buffalo were in 2 different situations. KC had a near complete team that needed a QB and we had an incomplete team that needed to dump talent to get ours.

 

No matter what, we were not picking up a QB early that year cause of the situation we were in.

 

The questionable questions is would Josh be doing This good or better In KC and would Mahomes be doing this good here?

 

We have seen Mahomes Ceiling but have we seen Allens' ?

 

None of this matters to me right now because I like where we are at and where we are going. Everyone says the team to beat KC this year is Buffalo.

 

To much opinionated stuff in this article followed by some facts.  I feel that we have beat the heck out of this topic on these boards well before this article. 

 

shrug

[blacklabel]

That article also raises the point so many seem to forget, would Mahomes be the Mahomes we see now if he landed here? Doubtful. He landed in a perfect storm with KC and I'm skeptical that he'd do what he's done anywhere else. 

[PrimeTime101]

2 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

That article also raises the point so many seem to forget, would Mahomes be the Mahomes we see now if he landed here? Doubtful. He landed in a perfect storm with KC and I'm skeptical that he'd do what he's done anywhere else. 

been said many times

[QLBillsFan]

4 hours ago, JoshAllenReceipts said:

 

 

Brian Daboll absolutely sucks as a Coach...Brian Daboll is a product of Josh Allen. 

 

Allen is a significantly better QB than Darnold and Mayfield in ANY situation/team. There's no comparison at all. It's not even close.

Daboll sucks as a coach is based on what ? His track record is pretty impressive. JA has clearly progressed under his leadership.

[BADOLBILZ]

36 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Daboll sucks as a coach is based on what ? His track record is pretty impressive. JA has clearly progressed under his leadership.

 

 

I am not agreeing with the OP about Daboll being a terrible coach.............but Daboll was an OC 3 different times in the NFL prior to coming to Buffalo and his "track record" was inarguably abysmal at those stops.

[QLBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I am not agreeing with the OP about Daboll being a terrible coach.............but Daboll was an OC 3 different times in the NFL prior to coming to Buffalo and his "track record" was inarguably abysmal at those stops.

Sometimes you do the best with what you have. His coaching journey has taken him through NE and some time with Saban. He has in fact improved JA. 
 

 By the way I’m of the camp that JA is good now and destined to be great. He’s got top 3 arm, top 3 elusiveness, top 3 leadership. Just disagree on Daboll sucking as coach. 

[mannc]

On 11/26/2020 at 9:58 AM, Zerovoltz said:

I didn't read through every single post here, but I read alot of them.....I have 2 points.

 

1.  first let me address the crowd that points out "Mahomes wouldn't be as good here as he is in KC because of weapons"  Truly, Mahomes did end up in the optimal spot....KC was a great match for what he does and had skill players in place.  I am sure that only in KC does the kid have 50/5000 season, but you are not giving enough credit to Mahomes for the things he does as a QB that lifts the entire roster around him.  IF he had landed in Bufalo or anywhere else, he'd have been special and would have made the skill players on any roster look better than they are.  Also....as a KC fan...It's irritating to keep seeing that the national perception is that we have "a good line".  WE DO NOT have a good line.  We have 2 good tackles and a very bad G-C-G combo.  If Joe Flacco was KC's QB, he'd get killed.  also, as great as you might think our RB are (there are good) .....KC SUCKS at getting any kind of push when you need a yard....they get pushed back.  it's awful.  I digress....Mahomes would even make the Jets a respectable team.

 

2.  This whole thing has been talked out enough....For a team that gets called out for missing on Mahomes, the Bills landed squarely on their feet with Allen.  He's a top end NFL QB talent at this point and he's fun as hell to watch.  I know I enjoy it whenever I get a chance to watch Bills games.  He is a guy you can build around and win a super bowl with.  You'll be competing with Mahomes to do it....but Allen is one of the few young horses in this leauge who potentially can do that.  This whole thing would another awful chapter in the long history of Bills missteps if you didn't land Allen....your franchise is in good shape!  The Pegulas, from the outside looking in....seem like good owners that have made sound choices....they just kind of oddly handled that 2017 offseason wich made for a situation where taking a QB at 10 wasn't really something McD was going to be comfortable doing at his sole discretion.  It's fine.  Things turned out pretty good considering.   

Very good perspective here.  Sure, the Bills goofed by not drafting Mahomes (seems silly to deny that), but they redeemed themselves pretty well when they took Allen the next year.  And of course franchises like the Bears (trading up from 3 to 2 to draft Trubisky) and the Jags (drafting Fournette at 4 overall when they have needed a QB literally forever) opened themselves up to much greater criticism for passing on Mahomes...