Rewatched the Jets game, not good for Edmunds.

[3rdand12]

10 minutes ago, wvbillsfan said:

So the defense gave up like 25 yards in the second half, he was part of that. He couldn’t have been that bad. 
 

And can we stop with the get him out of the middle nonsense. We play nickel 80 percent or better of the time. There is no middle linebacker then. Also who is the better option to put in the middle when we are in a base defense? Klein? He’s been bad. Milano? Too small never played the position. Every other linebacker we have is hurt. 
 

Edmunds could play better but it’s getting ridiculous. Guy was a pro bow player last year and trending up. Hurts his shoulder and hasn’t played as well and people want him moved benched etc etc. 2020 for you

but he is not trending up. I did not say dump him or he is a bust. he is playing well below his ability. we have seen him play very well previous seasons

Edited October 27, 2020 by 3rdand12
spl

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

17 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buffalorumblings.com/platform/amp/2020/10/23/21527770/all-22-analysis-buffalo-bills-lb-tremaine-edmunds

this doesn’t align with the narrative at all. How’d it get here? 

[3rdand12]

4 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I wish I could say I’m surprised the fan base has turned on him. Once you’ve achieved whipping boy status on here there’s no redeeming yourself. 
The narrative is set 

Hey !

 I am a huge Levi Wallace fan though !

 for real.

 like i said , he must know he is not playing up to what level he could and has.
But he does look out of whack this year , not just against the jets

 

 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

this doesn’t align with the narrative at all. How’d it get here? 

Majority of people watching the games or 'following a player' don't understand what they're seeing re: a player's responsibilities and role

[JP's Voice]

Again -  I think he could be Myles Garrett esque level of pass rusher.  Put him on IR for the year and have him learn behind Hughes and Addison. Heck even Zo. He can be the next Lorenzo Alexander. MLB is not a fit for him.

[uticaclub]

26 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buffalorumblings.com/platform/amp/2020/10/23/21527770/all-22-analysis-buffalo-bills-lb-tremaine-edmunds

Cherry pick 9 plays out of 7 games? I get the point of the article, but when you watch every play of a game you can't help but notice a trend.

[wvbillsfan]

12 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

but he is not trending up. I did not say dump him or he is a bust. he is playing well below his ability. we have seen him play very well previous seasons

Agree but it’s a small sample size. We know what he did last year. We know he was hurt week one with a shoulder and he’s playing through it. I’m convinced that has something to do with his play. The defense clamped down against the jets. Let’s see what happens in the coming weeks. 

[billsbackto81]

He's still one of the youngest players in the league and when healthy a freak elite athlete. There will be a place for him here, just not at MLB.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, uticaclub said:

Cherry pick 9 plays out of 7 games? I get the point of the article, but when you watch every play of a game you can't help but notice a trend.

Pretty much everyone who analyzes Bills film this year agrees on Edmunds fwiw

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

30 minutes ago, wvbillsfan said:

So the defense gave up like 25 yards in the second half, he was part of that. He couldn’t have been that bad. 
 

And can we stop with the get him out of the middle nonsense. We play nickel 80 percent or better of the time. There is no middle linebacker then. Also who is the better option to put in the middle when we are in a base defense? Klein? He’s been bad. Milano? Too small never played the position. Every other linebacker we have is hurt. 
 

Edmunds could play better but it’s getting ridiculous. Guy was a pro bow player last year and trending up. Hurts his shoulder and hasn’t played as well and people want him moved benched etc etc. 2020 for you

it’s a losing argument.
 

It’s clear the folks lamenting his play think middle linebacker is the 1980s version of the free roamer LB responsible to follow/chase and hit the RB or man up on the RB out of the backfield like Ray Lewis or Singletary.  
 

They don’t understand; 

 

1) a gap responsibility defense  vs run where the job is to fill and maintain a specific gap no matter where the running back goes 

 

or

 

2) palms zone (cov 2/3/4) Nickel coverages where two linebackers are essentially strong safeties taking a portion of turf.  
 

in this context he isn’t to blame for every bad play made by the defense. 
 

he’s a good player, who does his job vs the runs inside, gets blocked off a bit sideline to sideline and is really good vs pass occupying the one of the two middle short zones. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[wvbillsfan]

6 minutes ago, JP's Voice said:

Again -  I think he could be Myles Garrett esque level of pass rusher.  Put him on IR for the year and have him learn behind Hughes and Addison. Heck even Zo. He can be the next Lorenzo Alexander. MLB is not a fit for him.

He made a pro bow last year

How often does he play middle linebacker. Meaning how often are we in a base defense. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Majority of people watching the games or 'following a player' don't understand what they're seeing re: a player's responsibilities and role

Exactly 

[wvbillsfan]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

it’s a losing argument.
 

It’s clear the folks lamenting his play think middle linebacker is the 1980s version of the free roamer LB responsible to follow/chase and hit the RB or man up on the RB out of the backfield like Ray Lewis or Singletary.  
 

They don’t understand; 

 

1) a gap responsibility defense  vs run where the job is to fill and maintain a specific gap no matter where the running back goes 

 

or

 

2) palms zone (cov 2/3/4) Nickel coverages where two linebackers are essentially strong safeties taking a portion of turf.  
 

in this context he isn’t to blame for every bad play made by the defense. 
 

he’s a good player, who does his job vs the runs inside, gets blocked off a big sideline to sideline and is really good vs pass occupying the middle. 

I’m glad someone does. Starting to lose my sanity. I would be dollars to donuts if Edmunds shoots a gap it was the gap he was responsible for. 
 

could he be better this year. Absolutely 

does a should injury affect a linebacker 

absolutely 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

it’s a losing argument.
 

It’s clear the folks lamenting his play think middle linebacker is the 1980s version of the free roamer LB responsible to follow/chase and hit the RB or man up on the RB out of the backfield like Ray Lewis or Singletary.  
 

They don’t understand; 

 

1) a gap responsibility defense  vs run where the job is to fill and maintain a specific gap no matter where the running back goes 

 

or

 

2) palms zone (cov 2/3/4) Nickel coverages where two linebackers are essentially strong safeties taking a portion of turf.  
 

in this context he isn’t to blame for every bad play made by the defense. 
 

he’s a good player, who does his job vs the runs inside, gets blocked off a big sideline to sideline and is really good vs pass occupying the one of the two middle short zones. 

He is a McDermott player to the core. Very similar to Lotulelei in that respect. 

 

People love the Jordan Phillips splashy plays but don't understand or appreciate how important doing your job is. That the defense has been down statistically this year exacerbates the issue and fans look for people to blame...usually in the wrong places.

[3rdand12]

6 minutes ago, wvbillsfan said:

Agree but it’s a small sample size. We know what he did last year. We know he was hurt week one with a shoulder and he’s playing through it. I’m convinced that has something to do with his play. The defense clamped down against the jets. Let’s see what happens in the coming weeks. 

as mentioned I am not out to hang the kid by any means.

 and I really Would put Klein in the middle covering a-b gaps on running downs.

Both LBs need help overt the top anyways and Klein is better built to play downhill

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, wvbillsfan said:

I’m glad someone does. Starting to lose my sanity. I would be dollars to donuts if Edmunds shoots a gap it was the gap he was responsible for. 
 

could he be better this year. Absolutely 

does a should injury affect a linebacker 

absolutely 

what makes him look bad to those not understanding the Scheme is actually that he pursues after the fit is blown up away from him to try and get the stop. Personally I see that teams seem to run away from his gap.  I’m sure they know presnap and bills don’t stunt very much. They usually run at the nickel or attack the end depending on who is in. 

[3rdand12]

5 minutes ago, wvbillsfan said:

I’m glad someone does. Starting to lose my sanity. I would be dollars to donuts if Edmunds shoots a gap it was the gap he was responsible for. 
 

could he be better this year. Absolutely 

does a should injury affect a linebacker 

absolutely 

there is a good argument here for assignments. he calls the D alignments/reads/tells.
His role should be 80% the time should  read the play and react though. not fill the gap.

[TwistofFate]

I'm working on a video now, will be up soon. 

 

You can decide all decide for yourselves. 

[Nelius]

28 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The age excuse doesn't fly anymore. 

 

But...when you're talking about an athletic freak who's still only 22 years old, it does. Also, who exactly are we going to replace him with? Klein? Maybe throw some Matakevich in there? Some far worse player on the streets right now? Yes, you let the 22 year old take his lumps when there's truly nobody else behind him.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

He is a McDermott player to the core. Very similar to Lotulelei in that respect. 

 

People love the Jordan Phillips splashy plays but don't understand or appreciate how important doing your job is. That the defense has been down statistically this year exacerbates the issue and fans look for people to blame...usually in the wrong places.

Yeah Star And Shaq were the two huge losses to the run defense. 
 

Jordan was on skates vs the run, but was a good rotational 3 tech pass rusher. 

[LABILLBACKER]

28 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I wish I could say I’m surprised the fan base has turned on him. Once you’ve achieved whipping boy status on here there’s no redeeming yourself. 
The narrative is set 

Well he's had 2.5 years to prove us wrong and he hasn't. We all have eyes. We can see the missed gaps, bad angles and missed tackles. You can still get pass coverage value while using his speed & hieght on the outside. Let's face it look how long it took these coaches to finally throw in the towel on Peterman. I still think Tremaine could be an effective OLB. But he'll NEVER be Sean's Kuechly. 

[3rdand12]

Just now, Nelius said:

 

But...when you're talking about an athletic freak who's still only 22 years old, it does. Also, who exactly are we going to replace him with? Klein? Maybe throw some Matakevich in there? Some far worse player on the streets right now? Yes, you let the 22 year old take his lumps when there's truly nobody else behind him.

Unless he is injured.we do not not know of course. they are all beat up to some degree by now.
I have empathy for the Kid struggling to win his contests.
 

[AmishRifle]

15 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

it’s a losing argument.
 

It’s clear the folks lamenting his play think middle linebacker is the 1980s version of the free roamer LB responsible to follow/chase and hit the RB or man up on the RB out of the backfield like Ray Lewis or Singletary.  
 

They don’t understand; 

 

1) a gap responsibility defense  vs run where the job is to fill and maintain a specific gap no matter where the running back goes 

 

or

 

2) palms zone (cov 2/3/4) Nickel coverages where two linebackers are essentially strong safeties taking a portion of turf.  
 

in this context he isn’t to blame for every bad play made by the defense. 
 

he’s a good player, who does his job vs the runs inside, gets blocked off a bit sideline to sideline and is really good vs pass occupying the one of the two middle short zones. 

I agree with all of this!

[Weatherman]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Klein makes Edmunds look like a first ballot HOFer. 

Fact! 

[Dablitzkrieg]

He actually played better.  At this point people are just piling on.

[WideNine]

16 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

it’s a losing argument.
 

It’s clear the folks lamenting his play think middle linebacker is the 1980s version of the free roamer LB responsible to follow/chase and hit the RB or man up on the RB out of the backfield like Ray Lewis or Singletary.  
 

They don’t understand; 

 

1) a gap responsibility defense  vs run where the job is to fill and maintain a specific gap no matter where the running back goes 

 

or

 

2) palms zone (cov 2/3/4) Nickel coverages where two linebackers are essentially strong safeties taking a portion of turf.  
 

in this context he isn’t to blame for every bad play made by the defense. 
 

he’s a good player, who does his job vs the runs inside, gets blocked off a bit sideline to sideline and is really good vs pass occupying the one of the two middle short zones. 

 

It explains some, but not all of the struggles Edmunds has had diagnosing and being in position to make the tackle.

 

Some are just poor fundamentals, but I have recognized plays where the DT gets sealed/moved out of his gap and it is not Edmund's fit against a particular run. 

 

In fact, I started keying on Phillips play just because I went back and noticed that he was the guy getting blown out of his gap on some negative plays that were being laid at Edmunds' feet.

 

It's not all piling on. I want the kid to succeed or be put in a position where he can grow and be successful.

 

 

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Yeah Star And Shaq were the two huge losses to the run defense. 
 

 

 

And people don't understand that Edmunds job in this defense is to tie up and physically molest would-be blockers.......forcing the action to the last line of defense............the second level of strong safeties.

 

That puts a lot of pressure on would be HR hitting ball carriers.    The turf monster or Poyer.   Business decisions.    Circle beats the square.  It's a chess game out there.  

[Rc2catch]

15 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

He actually played better.  At this point people are just piling on.

That’s where I’m at on it. He’s had flaws and mistakes of course, and some posters have done a little homework and diagnosed bad plays. The others are just hopping on the trend of saying he sucks and needs to be benched etc etc. I don’t mind some criticism I just hate the parrots repeating what others say. 

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

The thing that bothered me most was how many times he shot gaps to make a play in the backfield and simply ran right by the running back.

 

noticed this during the game. he is in the wrong position and then makes no effort to make the tackle. 

38 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

it’s a losing argument.
 

It’s clear the folks lamenting his play think middle linebacker is the 1980s version of the free roamer LB responsible to follow/chase and hit the RB or man up on the RB out of the backfield like Ray Lewis or Singletary.  
 

They don’t understand; 

 

1) a gap responsibility defense  vs run where the job is to fill and maintain a specific gap no matter where the running back goes 

 

or

 

2) palms zone (cov 2/3/4) Nickel coverages where two linebackers are essentially strong safeties taking a portion of turf.  
 

in this context he isn’t to blame for every bad play made by the defense. 
 

he’s a good player, who does his job vs the runs inside, gets blocked off a bit sideline to sideline and is really good vs pass occupying the one of the two middle short zones. 

 

he missed many runs last game.  just straight up ran past the RB as the OP stated. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

10 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

noticed this during the game. he is in the wrong position and then makes no effort to make the tackle. 

 

he missed many runs last game.  just straight up ran past the RB as the OP stated. 

So there is an effort issue? I guess I just don’t see it 

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

It's so bizarre...he was objectively a good player last year, made huge strides in coverage from his rookie year, and made some impact plays.

 

Expected him to take another step like Allen, but it's been night and day. The injury is playing a big part I'm sure and the loss of Star as well, but he just looks a bit lost out there more often than we've seen him in the past.

 

As others have said, people are piling on and making him a scapegoat for all of our issues. There are a lot of factors at play. He's still so young and I think he has a great chance to rebound and become the player he was drafted to be. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Dont Stop Billeiving

[appoo]

as someone above said, you need to understand the concept of gap responsibility.

 

You're not really going to be able to evaluate outside of splash plays without the All 22

[billsfan_34]

2 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Went back to watch Edmunds and the defensive front 7 specifically.  Edmunds was really bad. 

 

Edmunds shot gaps many times and completely over ran the backs where he was more than capable of making stops for a loss. He was pushed around easily by linemen and could get off the blocks. 

 

His play has been questionable but he was really bad on Sunday. 

Noticed the same thing- epically bad- if we see it, the coaches see it. 

35 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

He actually played better.  At this point people are just piling on.

I generally don’t like to attack a player- Edmunds has been pretty bad. I had to watch the game again and dial in on him and what I saw wasnt good. Overpursuit, poor angles, loss of contain, and poor gap control to name a few.

 

in Edmunds defense, the DL doesn’t help his play much. 

[Jpsredemption]

He’s never been very good. It’s just now being discussed. 

[3rdand12]

12 minutes ago, appoo said:

as someone above said, you need to understand the concept of gap responsibility.

 

You're not really going to be able to evaluate outside of splash plays without the All 22

Okay. if you guys want to talk about just gap filling, or driving the play to a another defense man. Than start mentioning which safety missed the "other Gap"
The gap assignment excuse for an on or near the line LB is weak sauce. you can wield that shield on occasion for sure
and the guys who calls it should know if that's bad call pre snap

Edited October 27, 2020 by 3rdand12

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

He’s terrible. Play Klein and Milano 

Edmunds isn’t playing good but has shown he can at times. Edmunds with Milano is good. 
 

I really don’t understand what Klein does well. He is a liability in coverage and we all know what the run D was like with him playing for Milano. 

[3rdand12]

Just now, Jpsredemption said:

He’s never been very good. It’s just now being discussed. 

I do wish he could be coached up

[BillsFan692]

I agree that Edmunds plays better when Milano is out there, he can play the coverages better and milano can lay the hammer.

[TwistofFate]

This is a highlight reel of the 9 worst plays from Tremaine this past Sunday.  While there were others, it was hard to say if they were on him or not.  Plays were there for him to make on the those plays but I chose not to add them because they were't "blatant."  These plays are plays that show his misdiagnosis of plays, being bullied out of plays, not capitalizing on opportunities and over running plays.

 

For the record, I'm not anti-edmunds, just becoming increasingly concerned about his play on the field moving forward.  All players have bad games and I'm trying to keep things in perspective because of the season he had last year.  I just really feel a first round talent should be making much more of an impact especially in year 3.

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by TwistofFate

[BruceVilanch]

He should call up Chris Kelsay and ask him how he handled being the whipping boy when he was here.