Seasons1992 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc said: They need to fix what ails the defense. They will. Trust the cranberry juice process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 The 49 yard pass to Diggs was all air yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralonzo Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, DCofNC said: I commented to my wife “it’s nice to see 3rd and 13 and not feel like we should just send the punter out now”, of course they pick up 17 yards irrc and keep the drive alive. It’s amazing to know what other teams have felt like all these years lol. If you're thinking of the play I'm thinking of that was Daboll's baby. Set up a screen look on the left side, but throw it to McKenzie on a short crosser from the right and he's got speed heading right into the blockers who plow a path to the first down. Can't remember seeing something like that run before, ever, by anyone. The McKenzie jet 4th-and-1 was a helluva call too. It's nice to have your gadget guys be capable of more than eye candy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, PirateHookerMD said: I still am not sure why the play he got hurt on was not a first down? Diggs clearly does not step out and lunges beyond the marker? it looks to me like the ball goes OOB short of the 1st down marker. Kind of hard to tell from that angle, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 hours ago, PirateHookerMD said: I still am not sure why the play he got hurt on was not a first down? Diggs clearly does not step out and lunges beyond the marker? Bad spot. And i don't know that you get the first down, so you can't challenge it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralonzo Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 20 minutes ago, Doc said: They need to fix what ails the defense. What's happened is McVay figured out the pre-snap gap assignments for the front-6 in the McD nickel, and what motion will do to the pre-snap gap reads (esp the backers), and he found that it opened up the Bills' defense off-tackle on the side where the motion originates. The result is there's absolutely nobody there for a counter run. The Rams killed the Bills with that, and all of Jacobs damage came on it in the first 2 1/2 quarters. Most of the time the Rams and Raiders ran the motion from their right to left on the formation. It looked to me (I haven't rewatched to verify) like the adjustment the Bills made late was that the end on that side (Murphy or Epenesa) would play contain rather than rush, but the 3-technique (Oliver or Jefferson) would immediately penetrate instead of engage. As a result the play would either get a chunk as it has been doing, but now there's a chance it gets blown up for a loss by the penetrating 3T who's getting to the back before he can get to the hole. The rest of defense on that side seemed to have a key to rally up as well. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergie's ire Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I agree that it is the array that is impressive. Early on, Raiders were playing press man to man and Allen beat them over the top a few times. Then, I think it was just before the Diggs bomb, the commentators mentioned that he hadn't had a long throw since early...that the Raiders were giving him everything short and took away the deep passes. I think Josh picked them apart and they adjusted again. Last year, he could pick apart a zone but struggled against man to man. Now he can recognize the defense and adjust to beat what they are doing. Very impressive. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 After so many years of wishing Fitz/Tyrod would progress and being deflated by the same old low ceiling, it’s such a new, unexpected feeling to see a Bills QB actually take a leap in growth and development. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 My favorite throw of the year was the PA pass to Brown. Stallion sold the fake (and hid the ball) so well and just unleashed fury from his arm to put the ball in the perfect spot of a double covered WR. Upsetting that they didn’t give him that TD. Both JA and Brown deserved it. Helluva play on both ends 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninSarasota Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Shaw66 said: Watch it again. He doesn't put his body into the throw. He could have thrown it 70 yards if he wanted. Amazing arm. I am amazed by this along with alot of other throws off his back foot/sidearm where he just flicks his wrist effortlessly. Throwing from different arm angles is a testament to his off-season work. Edited October 5, 2020 by BuffaninSarasota typo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, BuffaninSarasota said: I amazed by this along with alot of other throws off his back foot/sidearm where he just flicks his wrist effortlessly. Throwing from different arm angles is a testament to his off-season work. Well, I don't know what he did in the off-season. I just see it as his natural progression. He's learning that way all QBs learn, gradually, over time. He's seeing the field better, he's concentrating and more relaxed. But he always had that arm. He made those throws two years ago, just not so often or so consistently. He's an extraordinary talent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChevyVanMiller Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, BuffaninSarasota said: I amazed by this along with alot of other throws off his back foot/sidearm where he just flicks his wrist effortlessly. Throwing from different arm angles is a testament to his off-season work. The little 8-yarder to Beasley is a great example of that. Just a side-armed flick of the wrist that went around the pass rusher and hit Cole dead on. Edited October 5, 2020 by ChevyVanMiller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Fin Fans Discussing Allen after yesterdays National Game (against someone other than themselves) https://finheaven.com/threads/josh-allen-was-the-pick-to-make.362097/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Fin Fans Discussing Allen after yesterdays National Game (against someone other than themselves) https://finheaven.com/threads/josh-allen-was-the-pick-to-make.362097/ They seem bitter, keep repeating make him do what he doesnt do well. At this point what is that? Edited October 5, 2020 by Bray Wyatt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 hours ago, PirateHookerMD said: I still am not sure why the play he got hurt on was not a first down? Diggs clearly does not step out and lunges beyond the marker? Because it is where the ball leaves the field of play. They have marked it like that for years. It used to be where you would land out of bounds, but now it is where the ball leaves the field as the player goes out. It is most noticeable at the goal line where the goal line used to extend “around the world” and guys could leap and land 5 yard out of bounds past the goal line and get a TD and now they have to have the ball inside the pylon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said: They seem bitter, keep repeating make him do what he doesnt do well. At this point what is that? Yeah I notice the detractors stick with the vague, "warts in passing", "do what he cant do" But no one EVER really signs up to say what those are 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Yeah I notice the detractors stick with the vague, "warts in passing", "do what he cant do" But no one EVER really signs up to say what those are Also apparently since we lost the 1 playoff game he's been to in the two years he'd been in the league he is now terrible in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 4 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said: Remember all of those years when you would watch NFL highlights and see QBs making great throws and say, "Why can't we get one of those types of passers?" Well, guess what Bills' fans? We've got one and as the title says, "Josh Allen is not a fluke." Take a moment a look at the great array of tosses he had yesterday. The TD toss to Gabriel Davis is a great case in point. He looks left the whole way to draw the safety and they comes back right and lets it go immediately with the perfect amount of loft and velocity. A thing of beauty. To quote a Seinfeld nugget, "They're real and they're spectacular." The best part to me is you could see some of this development happening, but they lacked the players to help him. That first year you could see the throws, but we kept asking was Josh inaccurate or did his receivers never make plays. You would routinely see other QBs get bailed out by an amazing catch to keep a drive alive or like that 1st game in Miami where he made a huge athletic play and then launched the ball to Clay and he reacts poorly and it is incomplete. Or a great pass to a streaking Zay Jones and he just failed to get under it to make the play. Guys like Foster and Benjamin would flash, but not make the big play to help out. That got a bit better last year with Brown and Beasley, but you really see a difference this year. Diggs just goes and gets it and that makes those plays so much nicer. The 50 yard completion to Diggs against LV is the perfect example - it was not a perfect throw - even Josh admitted that, but it was in the ball park and Diggs makes the play. Therefore it goes into a beautiful highlight reel that in year 1 was left empty because no one makes that play. You can really see the development and his manipulation of the defense this year and his touch and arm angles are amazing. What a difference a year makes! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 hours ago, wjag said: So this is a serious question from a lifelong fan but never a football player at any level other than sandlot. What makes one guy have a cannon arm and another not? I would imagine the strength and conditioning all QBs do is meant to increase arm strength, yet all QBs are not equal. What other factors contribute to one guy having a cannon and others not? Is it just reps, strength and conditioning? Body frame? Muscle mass? Many things go into it, but a lot is core strength and hip flexibility and rotation. It is the same reason some guys can throw 100 mph fastballs with pinpoint accuracy and a similar build person with less training can’t. Or how a golf pro can drive a ball down the fairway 350 yards, but me with the same equipment and ball seems to go 220 yards and scare the heck out of the people on the next fairway. First they have to have natural strength that they can build from (arm, shoulder, neck, upper body), then you need core strength and hip and lower leg strength to drive the ball. The power comes from the hip rotation and core. That is why even on his arm throws this year - you see him get his hips out in front. That helps drive the ball and provides accuracy. Josh is naturally strong and just with a flick can throw a long way, but as we saw in the Jets game on the overthrow to Brown - just the arm causes the ball to direct erratically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Doc said: Yeah, that was impressive. I think if he starts adding pump fakes into his arsenal, he'll raise his game to a new level. Cover 1 talked about this I think in the Miami highlights - he is already doing it with just his shoulders and motion. Patting the ball is like catnip to a DB and he has started to use it as part of his manipulation. He is also getting better at moving his shoulders to simulate a throw is coming and then resetting and hitting the newly uncovered guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: Many things go into it, but a lot is core strength and hip flexibility and rotation. It is the same reason some guys can throw 100 mph fastballs with pinpoint accuracy and a similar build person with less training can’t. Or how a golf pro can drive a ball down the fairway 350 yards, but me with the same equipment and ball seems to go 220 yards and scare the heck out of the people on the next fairway. First they have to have natural strength that they can build from (arm, shoulder, neck, upper body), then you need core strength and hip and lower leg strength to drive the ball. The power comes from the hip rotation and core. That is why even on his arm throws this year - you see him get his hips out in front. That helps drive the ball and provides accuracy. Josh is naturally strong and just with a flick can throw a long way, but as we saw in the Jets game on the overthrow to Brown - just the arm causes the ball to direct erratically. It's also like with that weird throw when Allen got hurt. Was that a great decision? Not really. But he put it in a place where Diggs would get to it before anyone else and I think he had trust Diggs would either get it or make sure no one else did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Anyone else seeing that little shimmy action Allen is doing in the pocket to move away from pressure without bailing on the pocket? Tom Brady does that 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, Warcodered said: It's also like with that weird throw when Allen got hurt. Was that a great decision? Not really. But he put it in a place where Diggs would get to it before anyone else and I think he had trust Diggs would either get it or make sure no one else did. The issue isn’t was it a good decision or not because you see guys like Rodgers and Mahomes make similar plays. Guys with talent and desire want to make every play. It is way I also did not mind the little pitch he threw to Singletary last week that went out of bounds. He drew the defenders and there was a play to be made there. I just want him to protect himself a bit better. He made the pitch to Diggs, but that left himself exposed. Of course Rodgers has done the same thing - so I will live with that because he has a fire and desire to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbRiddick Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 An unnamed reporter has released the following footage of the Bills locker room just after Allen want in with his injured shoulder... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 24 minutes ago, Warcodered said: It's also like with that weird throw when Allen got hurt. Was that a great decision? Not really. But he put it in a place where Diggs would get to it before anyone else and I think he had trust Diggs would either get it or make sure no one else did. Me too.. If Patrick Mahomes did that exact play throwing with his off hand (which everyone on here can see him doing), the talking heads would be ballyhooing his creativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 minute ago, wjag said: Me too.. If Patrick Mahomes did that exact play throwing with his off hand (which everyone on here can see him doing), the talking heads would be ballyhooing his creativity. I mean they did call Josh a magician and if he didn't get hurt they probably go for it on 4th down and that's where it stays. But it was a crazy play to make like the line of scrimmage pass/ pitch to McKenzie against the Rams it seemed crazy but it wasn't too dangerous and could of been a insane positive play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateHookerMD Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said: Because it is where the ball leaves the field of play. They have marked it like that for years. It used to be where you would land out of bounds, but now it is where the ball leaves the field as the player goes out. It is most noticeable at the goal line where the goal line used to extend “around the world” and guys could leap and land 5 yard out of bounds past the goal line and get a TD and now they have to have the ball inside the pylon. I knew they had changed that for the pylon, didn't know in the regular field of play. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, PirateHookerMD said: I knew they had changed that for the pylon, didn't know in the regular field of play. thanks It is why you see these guys even as their bodies are falling out of bounds - they are reaching with the ball back into the field. The ball can be off the field when they are still in play, but before they land out of bounds they work to swing that ball back in. Overall it is hard for the Refs, but it was designed to give them a sort of reference point rather than trying to guess when they land where there are no markers. Edited October 5, 2020 by Rochesterfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninSarasota Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Shaw66 said: Well, I don't know what he did in the off-season. I just see it as his natural progression. He's learning that way all QBs learn, gradually, over time. He's seeing the field better, he's concentrating and more relaxed. But he always had that arm. He made those throws two years ago, just not so often or so consistently. He's an extraordinary talent. there have been a ton of stories about JA working with Jordan Palmer and reaching out to Tony Romo......he's obviously put in the work and reached out for advice. This season so far has been ALOT more than just his natural progression. He was a mess (relatively speaking) early on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 6 hours ago, Stranded in Boston said: Indeed, it's been amazing seeing Josh's touch on long passes and to open receivers. He so clearly has adjusted his mechanics from previous years, opening his hips and not doing that giant javelin-throwing step. The kid clearly worked hard to improve -- hats off. ... Speaking of mechanics (and not to change the subject) -- it's really fun to key on Dion Dawkins in that highlight video. I know the Raiders don't have great pass-rushers, but Dawkins absolutely OWNS his man on every play. Superb combination of light-as-feather feet, brute strength and nasty attitude. Nice for Josh to not worry about his blind side ... Speaking of great blocks, Knox had a real corker on the Davis touchdown. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 35 minutes ago, BuffaninSarasota said: there have been a ton of stories about JA working with Jordan Palmer and reaching out to Tony Romo......he's obviously put in the work and reached out for advice. This season so far has been ALOT more than just his natural progression. He was a mess (relatively speaking) early on. Yeah, I read the stories. I just don't buy that he's made some kind of historic leap. When a guy works with coaches, like that, he's working on little things. He isn't remaking his game. Little things account for maybe a completion a game, maybe two. If off-season coaching and work could improve Allen's passer rating from 85 to 120, then every quarterback would do that training. Allen has been working with Daboll and his offense for three years. They began asking him to do things he'd never done before. Little by little, he progressed. He's now seeing the field. He now knows where his receivers will be. He now knows what to do with certain blitzes. As I've said several times, he isn't making any throws he didn't make two years ago. He's just making them more consistently. He threw plenty of balls with touch last season. He's making them behind the best offensive line pass protection he's had since he got to Buffalo. He has Diggs and Davis this year, plus two experienced tight ends instead of one rookie. I think he's just making normal progress from season to season, and the team is getting better around him. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninSarasota Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 13 hours ago, Shaw66 said: Yeah, I read the stories. I just don't buy that he's made some kind of historic leap. When a guy works with coaches, like that, he's working on little things. He isn't remaking his game. Little things account for maybe a completion a game, maybe two. If off-season coaching and work could improve Allen's passer rating from 85 to 120, then every quarterback would do that training. Allen has been working with Daboll and his offense for three years. They began asking him to do things he'd never done before. Little by little, he progressed. He's now seeing the field. He now knows where his receivers will be. He now knows what to do with certain blitzes. As I've said several times, he isn't making any throws he didn't make two years ago. He's just making them more consistently. He threw plenty of balls with touch last season. He's making them behind the best offensive line pass protection he's had since he got to Buffalo. He has Diggs and Davis this year, plus two experienced tight ends instead of one rookie. I think he's just making normal progress from season to season, and the team is getting better around him. OK, so we both read the stories - I didn't say he made some kind of historic leap......others might disagree (e.g., going from approx 58% to 71% completion %). I don't think you are appreciating the vast improvements to his mechanics (....Romo's advice was solid) and the touch he is putting on the ball along with dropping it in tight windows vs. throwing 110mph fastballs. I disagree this is "normal" progress but do agree with your other points about continuity, having a better team around him, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hooks Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 19 hours ago, RockpileSurvivor said: Colin Cowherd just now...”...and Josh Allen doesn’t have a ceiling.” 👏🏻 Same guy that blasted Allen for being in the top 100. Another Johnny come lately. Not interested. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 21 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Was reading an article in the Athletic, below was one quote: Daboll used 19 different packages on Sunday. If that wasn’t impressive enough, he used 15 different personnel combinations through the first half, which consisted of only 30 plays. Got me thinking some, is more of Allen's improvement due to him just finally understanding the offense? Maybe last year when he'd drop back half the time he'd be trying to understand the play that there wasn't enough time left to often throw a good catchable pass. I'm sure working on the mechanics helped too, but maybe the mental part is a bigger reason for the improvement than people realize. Without a doubt. It's not just understanding the offense, which I believe Allen did last year It's not just reading the defense correctly, which was clearly a work in progress for Allen last year and might be this year as he encounters the trickier defensive minds. He has to read the defense, and UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS FOR THE PLAY. That last is the part I believe Allen has improved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 His ‘Want to’ Is gonna get him hurt. It’s a fine line, but he has to start recognizing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 after so many years of futility we have really found our QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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