Edit: NFL removes Bass's kick from All-22 video

[Doc]

Just now, RoyBatty is alive said:

Did they?  The NFL is so freaking stupid that they would doctor highlight reels of a missed field goal so Bills fanatics could cite that as the NFL essentially admitting Bass made the field goal.

 

There is one thing to be a fan, a homer,......another to be, imo, irrational.

 

Yeah they did when they doctored the footage.  It's not a hard concept to grasp.

[Jauronimo]

5 minutes ago, Ecmic82 said:

There’s a ton of things In sport and life that require “immediate action” that aren’t “major” problems 😂.

 

and as a poster above observed, the OP wrote about the need for a tech fix in his post, so unsure why the premise of this thread DOESN’T at least partially involve using tech to solve a problem.

This issue hasn't even met the criteria of being a problem until someone can demonstrate any one of these calls was incorrect.  Until then the only known issue is fans whining about the outcome of judgement calls which is an immutable fact of sport. 

 

I agree that we could use tech to solve a non-issue in the sport and clarify 2 to 5 field goal calls per decade at the pro and collegiate levels. How much investment and effort that is worth is debatable.  

Edited September 17, 2020 by Jauronimo

[Richard Noggin]

Just now, Jauronimo said:

This issue hasn't even met the criteria of being a problem until someone can demonstrate any one of these calls was incorrect.  Until then the only known issue is fans whining about the outcome of judgement calls which is an immutable fact of sport. 

 

I agree that we could use tech to solve a non-issue in the sport and clarify 2 to 5 field goal calls per decade. How much investment and effort that is worth is debatable.  

Why so dismissive of discussion of a call that was WIDELY agreed upon to be incorrect? 

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

 

Did they?  The NFL is so freaking stupid that they would doctor highlight reels of a missed field goal so Bills fanatics could cite that as the NFL essentially admitting Bass made the field goal.

 

There is one thing to be a fan, a homer,......another to be, imo, irrational.

What do you think the reason is?

 

It was a mistake? They didn’t mean to remove a play and edit another FG in there?

 

 

[GoBills808]

@Jauronimo an interesting sidenote- as it stands you are correct that we can't definitely say whether or not the ball was inside or outside the upright...but additionally: at present we can't even definitely say whether it was above or below the top of the upright either which is the circumstances that define whether the play is able to be reviewed! 

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Was gonna reply above, but this is just as good.  You said I dont know if the kick is good or not but then casually throw this out there.  At least with the kick I have some pretty strong evidence.  You have literally nothing to support them hacking the technology.  More than happy to not discuss conspiracies.   

Dead horse beating.  You  have no "proof" the field goal was good, zip zero, nada.  Not going to keep going over the same thing repeatedly.  

 

There is "anecdotal proof" of the pats hacking technology, reference the headset "malfunctions' and Flutie comment about hearing the coaches communicating when he picked up a QBs helmet after the time to communicate expired...i didnt make those up or dream them.  I never said they did for a fact so now I dont have some "onus" to prove otherwise.  

[QB Bills]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

What?  Are FGs now having to go the the square?  No, also because it would make the bars very heavy and likely unstable.

 

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Definitely not easiest solution.

The easiest solution is adding a camera above the goal posts.

Alright fine, point taken. Have the two goal posts angle to meet each other in the middle. A field goal now has to go through an isosceles triangle or it's no good. As an added bonus, kids get a free lesson in geometry. And the adults can laugh at Solomon Wilcotts trying to pronounce "isosceles".

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

What do you think the reason is?

 

It was a mistake? They didn’t mean to remove a play and edit another FG in there?

 

 

Maybe they  decided that no one in the right mind, absent crazed Bills fans, would waste the time to  want to see a rookie miss a field goal where it had zero outcome of the game.  I would bet any money that a game winning kick at the end of the game would still be on the highlight reel.

[Ecmic82]

11 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

This issue hasn't even met the criteria of being a problem until someone can demonstrate any one of these calls was incorrect.  Until then the only known issue is fans whining about the outcome of judgement calls which is an immutable fact of sport. 

 

I agree that we could use tech to solve a non-issue in the sport and clarify 2 to 5 field goal calls per decade at the pro and collegiate levels. How much investment and effort that is worth is debatable.  

Here’s the issue with setting the bar at “until someone can prove one of the calls is incorrect”. It’s literally an unobtainable requirement meant to promote the status quo, not find the most agreeable solution.

 

could the NFL afford a few rigid springs and carbon rods to fix the problem? I think so 😂

Edited September 17, 2020 by Ecmic82

[HOUSE]

[MJS]

54 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

You want the NFL or football go go "all technology", good for you, I dont.  I have already cited the  fiasco the NFL has made about what a catch is.  And what happens if technology malfunctions and gets the call wrong?   Yeah good luck trying to solve that. 

 

My money is the Pats will learn a creative way to trick the fool proof technology. give them time and study.  

 

Football is a game of judgement officiated and run by people, seeking perfections if not attainable IMO. Would i like perfection, sure if the cost/time/hassle are not excessive.

The fiasco of what a catch is still came down to a human making a judgement call. Technology had nothing to do with that. They still use replay, but have simplified the rules, which makes it easier to make those judgement calls.

 

It's pretty silly to think that technology couldn't enhance the game. I never said you take humanity out of the game. You use technology to make certain aspects easier and more simple, thus allowing the officials to focus on more important things.

[YattaOkasan]

2 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Dead horse beating.  You  have no "proof" the field goal was good, zip zero, nada.  Not going to keep going over the same thing repeatedly.  

 

There is "anecdotal proof" of the pats hacking technology, reference the headset "malfunctions' and Flutie comment about hearing the coaches communicating when he picked up a QBs helmet after the time to communicate expired...i didnt make those up or dream them.  I never said they did for a fact so now I dont have some "onus" to prove otherwise.  

HAHAHA that is not proof of hacking.  Thats stuff.  I can make conspiracies up to.  Bills had the Panthers Draft Board in 2018.  I know because there is "proof" that  we moved in front of them several times and took players they wanted.  The evidence the field goal is good is much stronger than evidence the Patriots are hacking head sets.  Sheesh.

[That's No Moon]

33 minutes ago, NewEra said:

My buddy bet $200 on the Over 46.  It was +210.  It’s meaningless to some, sure.  It’s not meaningless to others.  When there is betting involved.....which there is....every single game......the league should make

more of an effort to get EVERY call correct.  There’s no reason not to except if they’re: A:  being cheap or B: they just don’t care and they’re lazy.  Neither are reasonable answers.  Considering the money that the NFL generates they should be able to figure this out.  

And since the league is buddying up to gambling and some of the owners even have stakes in gambling houses it makes getting this stuff correct all the more important.  The appearance of impropriety can be as damaging as actual impropriety.

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

HAHAHA that is not proof of hacking.  Thats stuff.  I can make conspiracies up to.  Bills had the Panthers Draft Board in 2018.  I know because there is "proof" that  we moved in front of them several times and took players they wanted.  The evidence the field goal is good is much stronger than evidence the Patriots are hacking head sets.  Sheesh.

 

HAHAHA i didnt write it was "proof", i wrote "anecdotal proof".  If that concept it so obscure to you, educate yourself and look it up.

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Maybe they  decided that no one in the right mind, absent crazed Bills fans, would waste the time to  want to see a rookie miss a field goal where it had zero outcome of the game.  I would bet any money that a game winning kick at the end of the game would still be on the highlight reel.

That makes ZERO SENSE.  Why would they USE THEIR TIME to remove it?  Literally wasting $ in order to remove a play because it’s a play that doesn’t matter?  Why not remove and replace the other 40 plays that don’t matter?  Who cares about the frank gore run where he gained 1 yard?  Why didn’t they replace it with another frank gore run? 
 

They took their time to remove it and replace it with another play......your answer doesnt make sense

Edited September 17, 2020 by NewEra

[Jauronimo]

5 minutes ago, Ecmic82 said:

Here’s the issue with setting the bar at “until someone can prove one of the calls is incorrect”. It’s literally an unobtainable requirement meant to promote the status quo, not find the most agreeable solution.

 

could the NFL afford a few rigid springs and carbon rods to fix the problem? I think so 😂

Take it up with the OP whose entire supposition is that the call was wrong and clearly wrong at that.  This is the underlying premise for this thread and the call for immediate action.   That premise has widely been accepted by a number of participants.  

 

I don't think it is unreasonable for those calling for immediate action to first demonstrate there is a real problem with poor officiating on field goals.  

 

 

[Augie]

Does anybody want to see a questionable call like that decide a Super Bowl for your team? Do you want to listen to the hullabaloo that would follow? I know I don’t! This isn’t that hard. Technology can make this a 100% positive call in some way. No excuse for not getting that done for next season. 

 

I don’t know if the kick was good or not. Fix it so we don’t even have to have this discussion. That protects everybody. Just get it right. 

 

.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Augie

[GG]

46 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Prove it was good, mmmkay.

Sure, please share it.

 

I'd love to, but somehow the NFL decided to scrub the kick from All-22.  Do you find that odd?

 

BTW, have you ever tried to get to an answer by triangulating different points?  Because if you do that to the slow motion replay, it surely looks like the kick was good.

[YattaOkasan]

Just now, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

HAHAHA i didnt write it was "proof", i wrote "anecdotal proof".  If that concept it so obscure to you, educate yourself and look it up.

So you agree there is more evidence that kick was good then there is for head set hacking?  Also you think its easier to hack a system and cover it up than to just bribe some officials.....

 

Put some tech in.  will it be perfect? no.  will it make things better? yes.

[RoyBatty is alive]

6 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

And since the league is buddying up to gambling and some of the owners even have stakes in gambling houses it makes getting this stuff correct all the more important.  The appearance of impropriety can be as damaging as actual impropriety.

 

This I agree with 100%.  NFL has been buddying up to gambling/fantasy football for years, that is why the injury reports are so detailed now

[WideNine]

I have seen this issue before with kickers with big legs when they have cleared the uprights by 10 feet, catch the mesh between the uprights, and it is called wide by an official under the goal posts. Not sure if they actually have a great angle depending on where they are standing....

 

It would not be that difficult to use cameras and replays to virtually extend the goal posts and get the call right.

 

Other than rattling our young kicker, not a lot of harm with that call in our game, but if it happened during a tight playoff or superbowl there would be a huge controversy.

[Royale with Cheese]

14 minutes ago, QB Bills said:

 

Alright fine, point taken. Have the two goal posts angle to meet each other in the middle. A field goal now has to go through an isosceles triangle or it's no good. As an added bonus, kids get a free lesson in geometry. And the adults can laugh at Solomon Wilcotts trying to pronounce "isosceles".

 

[Doc]

Just now, WideNine said:

I have seen this issue before with kickers with big legs when they have cleared the uprights by 10 feet, catch the mesh between the uprights, and it is called wide by an official under the goal posts. Not sure if they actually have a great angle depending on where they are standing....

 

It would not be that difficult to use cameras and replays to virtually extend the goal posts and get the call right.

 

Other than rattling our young kicker, not a lot of harm with that call in our game, but if it happened during a tight playoff or superbowl there would be a huge controversy.

 

I haven't seen a FG call missed in the NFL until Sunday.  I think the NFL was laboring under the assumption that refs are infallible when deciding these, but that's obviously not the case anymore. 

 

And nothing new needs to be done.  The All-22 can capture the truth.  It just need to be used to review kicks and the footage not doctored.

[B-Man]

CBS came back from the commercial and immediately showed the replay and suggested that the officials might have gotten it wrong.

 

I am amazed at the responses of some here who sarcastically question anyone who thinks  the refs might have gotten it wrong.

 

 

 

[Jauronimo]

17 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

Why so dismissive of discussion of a call that was WIDELY agreed upon to be incorrect? 

I'm dismissive of the thought process. 

 

1. OP asserts the call was wrong but can't prove it. 

2. Asserts the official has no clue and can't even admit it was a very close call. 

3. Because the call was wrong (which hasn't been established) immediate action is needed. 

4. Here are the actions needed.

 

Its a house built on sand but it has a lot of people eager to move in.  Congrats on the new house!  I'm busy the day of the housewarming party.

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

That makes ZERO SENSE.  Why would they USE THEIR TIME to remove it?  Literally wasting $ in order to remove a play because it’s a play that doesn’t matter?  Why not remove and replace the other 40 plays that don’t matter?  Who cares about the frank gore run where he gained 1 yard?  Why didn’t they replace it with another frank gore run? 
 

They took their time to remove it and replace it with another play......your answer doesnt make sense

 

Makes sense to me, unless you want to put on your tin foil conspiracy hat that the NFL went out of their way top remove the meaningless field goal kick that no one cares about except a handful of crazed Bills fans care about.  I dont know what they replaced it with but sorry, Frank Gore a future Hall of Famer is a lot more topical right now than our rookie field goal kicker. that missed a non-material kick.

[Jauronimo]

6 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I'd love to, but somehow the NFL decided to scrub the kick from All-22.  Do you find that odd?

 

BTW, have you ever tried to get to an answer by triangulating different points?  Because if you do that to the slow motion replay, it surely looks like the kick was good.

Show me the triangulation you performed.

[Doc]

Just now, B-Man said:

CBS came back from the commercial and immediately showed the replay and suggested that the officials might have gotten it wrong.

 

I am amazed at the responses of some here who sarcastically question anyone who thinks  the refs might have gotten it wrong.

 

It was/is odd, isn't it? 

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Take it up with the OP whose entire supposition is that the call was wrong and clearly wrong at that.  This is the underlying premise for this thread and the call for immediate action.   That premise has widely been accepted by a number of participants.  

 

I don't think it is unreasonable for those calling for immediate action to first demonstrate there is a real problem with poor officiating on field goals.  

Field goals is just part of it. And I don't blame the officials at all. The game is designed for the officials to have to make too many split second judgement calls. Spotting the ball is the easiest thing to see. They get the spot a little bit wrong basically every single time, which is a huge deal because literally every inch is important.

 

And the other issue is that certain things aren't reviewable. Why? Why is a field goal reviewable until it reaches a certain height? That makes no sense. That is when you NEED to review it the most. And there are plenty examples of non-reviewable things that should be reviewable.

[RoyBatty is alive]

24 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

Why so dismissive of discussion of a call that was WIDELY agreed upon to be incorrect? 

 

Where was it so WIDELY agreed upon it was incorrect, absent here and by Bills fans.  Maybe he is dismissive because he can think objectively and is not blinded by his Bills fandom.  

[HOUSE]

From my seat in south Buffalo, the kick looked good to me...

[GG]

Just now, Jauronimo said:

Show me the triangulation you performed.

 

Time on the replay combined with the straight view of the kick and where and when it hits the netting.   It would be almost physically impossible for the kick to have been missed considering where and when it hit the netting. 

 

Very similar to the goal the Sabres were awarded a few years ago, despite the refs not seeing the puck.  There was no other possibility but for the puck to be lodged in the goalie equipment inside the goal line.

[Plano]

4 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Show me the triangulation you performed.

triangulate this 

[B-Man]

2 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Where was it so WIDELY agreed upon it was incorrect, absent here and by Bills fans.  Maybe he is dismissive because he can think objectively and is not blinded by his Bills fandom.  

 

 

[SWATeam]

32 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Maybe they  decided that no one in the right mind, absent crazed Bills fans, would waste the time to  want to see a rookie miss a field goal where it had zero outcome of the game.  I would bet any money that a game winning kick at the end of the game would still be on the highlight reel.

Do you understand that the "all 22" is just the coaches film of every play?  It's not highlights, it's the tape.  It's literally every play from the two endzone views.

 

For some reason, the NFL removed this one play and replaced it with another kick.  

Edited September 17, 2020 by SWATeam

[Richard Noggin]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Where was it so WIDELY agreed upon it was incorrect, absent here and by Bills fans.  Maybe he is dismissive because he can think objectively and is not blinded by his Bills fandom.  

The network feed, the majority of post-game analysis, pretty much everyone who has seen the play minus two curmudgeons, etc.

 

I'm certainly not running around screaming about this, but they got the call wrong. The kick was good. My vision isn't affected by my fandom. While I cannot PROVE it was good, that does not eliminate any validity of us discussing this issue, especially in light of the NFL very obviously covering up the evidence on the ALL-22. That's just blatant. 

 

I don't understand the contrarian thing going on here. 

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Makes sense to me, unless you want to put on your tin foil conspiracy hat that the NFL went out of their way top remove the meaningless field goal kick that no one cares about except a handful of crazed Bills fans care about.  I dont know what they replaced it with but sorry, Frank Gore a future Hall of Famer is a lot more topical right now than our rookie field goal kicker. that missed a non-material kick.

Ok.  Glad we got it straight.  You think they spent their money to edit a play out and replace it with a different play because only bills fans care.  

[RoyBatty is alive]

12 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

So you agree there is more evidence that kick was good then there is for head set hacking?  Also you think its easier to hack a system and cover it up than to just bribe some officials.....

 

Put some tech in.  will it be perfect? no.  will it make things better? yes.

 

No I never agreed to point 1.  And i never said or intimated it is easier to hack a system and cover it up than bribe an official.  Never said that at all so if you want to have an intellectually honest conversation great, if you want to make things up go at it yourself.

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Ok.  Glad we got it straight.  You think they spent their money to edit a play out and replace it with a different play because only bills fans care.  

 

 

No not at all, i gave you a plausible reason why, as so many crazed conspiracy theorists are asserting the kick was editted out.  I dont know if it was and really dont care either way. But for some to allege the NFL: is up to something nefarious is laughable

[YattaOkasan]

5 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

No I never agreed to point 1.  And i never said or intimated it is easier to hack a system and cover it up than bribe an official.  Never said that at all so if you want to have an intellectually honest conversation great, if you want to make things up go at it yourself.

Youre right you didnt agree to the first point.  but does that mean you do think there is more proof that the patriots hack headsets than this fg was good.  You did say if tech was put in the pats could hack.  so you now agree that its easier to bribe an official than to hack?  youre right im reading between the lines, but only cause you arent giving direct answers.  youre just insinuating things like the pats hack head sets. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by YattaOkasan

[Ecmic82]

18 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Take it up with the OP whose entire supposition is that the call was wrong and clearly wrong at that.  This is the underlying premise for this thread and the call for immediate action.   That premise has widely been accepted by a number of participants.  

 

I don't think it is unreasonable for those calling for immediate action to first demonstrate there is a real problem with poor officiating on field goals.  

 

 

What if it’s simply a very minor problem with officiating on field goals? And what if that problem could be fixed for a few thousand dollars?