MJS Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 I have to give Daboll props. I really think he called a good game. Good play designs. They used some effective screens. Good presnap movement and misdirection. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 26 minutes ago, 1st&ten said: Well JRB I know your a very knowledge poster, but the Bills are never going to progress or win a SB if they keep counting on Josh to run the ball. That is always going to be in the game plan....Josh is a duel threat QB and they are going to use this play. I thought they overused it today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Just now, GoBills808 said: No. He’s mobile and can escape but he is not a running QB and they continue to try to use him as such I think he is. Not a run first Quarterback. But I do think he is a running Quarterback. Like Russell Wilson is a running Quarterback. 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: That is always going to be in the game plan....Josh is a duel threat QB and they are going to use this play. I thought they overused it today. Agree completely with this. Part of that was Josh keeping the read options so much but there were times I thought we overused it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: I think he is. Not a run first Quarterback. But I do think he is a running Quarterback. Like Russell Wilson is a running Quarterback. Agree completely with this. Part of that was Josh keeping the read options so much but there were times I thought we overused it. He doesn’t protect himself at contact and has fumbling issues. He is not a running QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 It's amazing how many people would rather lose and have the QB stand in the pocket the whole game so their image of a perfect passer doesn't get messed up. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutDog Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: He doesn’t protect himself at contact and has fumbling issues. He is not a running QB. His numbers last year literally put him toward the top amongst QB’s. Not sure how you’re arriving to the point you’re at. Edited September 13, 2020 by TroutDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 1 minute ago, TroutDog said: His numbers last year literally put him toward the top amongst QB’s. Not sure how you’re arriving to the point you’re at. No me neither. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st&ten Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Some of that is on Josh to protect himself. If you want a QB who doesn't run then you are going to be disappointed. Josh is always going to. It is who he is and it is part of his arsenal. Oh come on Gunner---your one of most knowledge posters on the board---yes, Josh is going to run at times---but anyone can see that these are designed run plays called by the OF coordinator. We drafted this guy for his big arm lets get him coached up to be the winner QB that he can be. Edited September 14, 2020 by 1st&ten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Just now, TroutDog said: His numbers last year literally put him at toward the top amongst QB’s. Not sure how you’re arriving to the point you’re at. I guess I’m saying his most effective runs (and probably a majority of his yards) don’t come from called QB keeps. He escapes and gets yards but imo he can’t be used in read option or QB sweeps like they keep trying or we are going to see more fumbles and likely injuries 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: That is always going to be in the game plan....Josh is a duel threat QB and they are going to use this play. I thought they overused it today. 100% overused today. I like the QB run but not so often. Having said that, it did seem like the only thing the Jets were good at for awhile was stoping the run from the RB’s. Daboll called a good game. I think his confidence in Josh is growing and having better players doesn’t hurt. Edited September 13, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: It's amazing how many people would rather lose and have the QB stand in the pocket the whole game so their image of a perfect passer doesn't get messed up. Who are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Greg Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: No. He’s mobile and can escape but he is not a running QB and they continue to try to use him as such If Josh Allen isn’t a running quarterback, there’s no such thing as a running quarterback. Yeah he needs to be sure to secure the ball and protect himself, but he is a one of a kind playmaker with his legs. I’m glad they let him play his game. It’s what makes him good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutDog Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: I guess I’m saying his most effective runs (and probably a majority of his yards) don’t come from called QB keeps. He escapes and gets yards but imo he can’t be used in read option or QB sweeps like they keep trying or we are going to see more fumbles and likely injuries I gotcha. I’d still disagree: he can work on ball possession and sliding/minimizing risk. He did well with that in the second half of last year. I suspect there were some jitters today and he WANTED to be hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, 1st&ten said: Oh come on Gunner---your one of most knowledge posters on the board---yes, Josh is going to run at times---but anyone can see that these are designed run plays called by the OF coordinator. We drafted these guy for his big arm lets get him coached up to be the winner QB that he can be. Yes some of them are designed runs. I didn't like the call he fumbled the 2nd time on, it waw unnecessary. But he is a QB who is always going to use his legs. If you want him to be a pure pocket passer that isn't who he is. To some extent you have to take the rough with the smooth. His running is a weapon. But the turnovers are a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 1 minute ago, DC Greg said: If Josh Allen isn’t a running quarterback, there’s no such thing as a running quarterback. Yeah he needs to be sure to secure the ball and protect himself, but he is a one of a kind playmaker with his legs. I’m glad they let him play his game. It’s what makes him good. His game is def not read option 2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: If thats the case you aren't going to be as productive offensively. Thats a significant part of Joshs game and very effective....when he doesn't fumble it like a moron. If we take out his runs completely today, what happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Daboll called a good game today. You can place the blame on the Bills for not finishing on Allen. Those 2 fumbles were killer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 I woujld prefer that he get his runs on scrambles when protection breaks down or a mental count when nobody is open........it is a weapon but the running backs need to actually run the ball 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Exactly. Taking the running out of his game would be detrimental to the offense.... while also cutting down on stupid turnovers from your QB. Imagine a world where taking away Allen runs...wait for it...cut down on the stupid turnovers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st&ten Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Just now, GunnerBill said: Yes some of them are designed runs. I didn't like the call he fumbled the 2nd time on, it waw unnecessary. But he is a QB who is always going to use his legs. If you want him to be a pure pocket passer that isn't who he is. To some extent you have to take the rough with the smooth. His running is a weapon. But the turnovers are a problem. Well maybe I'm too hope full that they can turn him into a big Ben type player but I'm still optimistic if they work on his passing game more he might excel. Josh's running is exciting but the better teams will shut that down or injure him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: The QB sweeps I agree.... But suggesting he doesn't run at all is idiotic. Its part of his game and what makes him such a threat offensively. He needs like one or maybe two called runs a game Daboll had over 10 today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Greg Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: His game is def not read option I’d definitely be fine with less read option. But they should definitely design some 3 and 5 step QB draws on first and second downs that give him the option to just hit the dirt if the space to run isn’t there. Those type of plays force them to keep defenders home across the middle, opening up more downfield. Mix in a few run/pass option sprint outs, and then of course JA will just take off when there’s an opportunity to do so. Running is a huge part of his game, and he’s great at it. He’s getting much better at not taking big hits. And dude is still a tank. He can take a tackle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I woujld prefer that he get his runs on scrambles when protection breaks down or a mental count when nobody is open........it is a weapon but the running backs need to actually run the ball This!!! He didn’t need to be running the sweep he fumbled on. We have skill position players who can do that. I don’t like the option play as a staple ( which it seems to be). He showed great pocket awareness today! If it breaks down and he can get some with his legs cool but the designed runs need to be held for special occasions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Just now, BadboyBills said: He was slinging it today. Stop with the 'the has to stop fumbling' narrative and get on 'the no more or a lot less QB run plays and let him use his instinct when the pocket breaks down' narrative. Less called qb run plays, less fumbling He has to stop fumbling. We need his legs at times. Josh has to hold onto the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 I was confused with the offensive formations for much of the game. I understand the desire to create confusion with the pre-snap movements, but even as the ball was snapped most of the offensive players were still jumbled near the LOS as were the Jets' defenders. As someone pointed out, Bills don't have the RB talent to quickly hit a hole when one was there. Another case of not utilizing the formations that fit your personnel. I think that running out of a more spread out formation would have worked better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinTheMagician Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Man not hot. Man never hot. Seat not hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, BadboyBills said: Both fumbles happened on called qb run plays. On one of the fumbles he would've injured his shoulder if he didn't let it go. Another reason for less qb run play calls that would equal less fumbles and griping here. But his running is part of what makes his who he is. I think some of the runs were unnecessary, but we do need his legs some. And he has to improve his ball security. It is just as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, BadboyBills said: Both fumbles happened on called qb run plays. On one of the fumbles he would've injured his shoulder if he didn't let it go. Another reason for less qb run play calls that would equal less fumbles and griping here. Yup no called QB runs today and we win by 40 I wager 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: But his running is part of what makes his who he is. I think some of the runs were unnecessary, but we do need his legs some. And he has to improve his ball security. It is just as simple as that. I don’t think anyone is opposed to JA running the QB sweep once or twice per game, but that was absolutely the wrong time and place for that call. We’re up 21-0 and he’s already fumbled it once today, not to mention history of fumbling on similar plays...Plus, there is no excuse for exposing him to injury on a play like that when we have so many other options...That was absolutely unforgivable Edited September 13, 2020 by mannc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 (edited) It’s not easy to get a run game going when the QB is in the shotgun almost every play and when you run from that set, the RB is often behind the QB. How do you start your RBs 7 yards behind the LOS and expect success? Jets have a great run D so I am not that worried but the sets were odd. If they were in a game with a lead vs a good team (Houston playoffs anyone?), establishing a running game would be critical. Edited September 13, 2020 by shoshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 1 minute ago, mannc said: I don’t think anyone is opposed to JA running the QB sweep once or twice per game, but that was absolutely the wrong time and place for that call. We’re up 21-0 and he’s already fumbled it once today, not to mention history of fumbling on similar plays...Plus, there is no excuse for exposing him to injury on a play like that when we have so many other options...That was absolutely unforgivable I agree that was the wrong call. Have never said otherwise. But generally Daboll called a good game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joaquin1119 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 I look at the post time and date this was posted. I thought this was an old post but it’s not. Season just started 😐 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: I agree that was the wrong call. Have never said otherwise. But generally Daboll called a good game. The pass offense was exceptional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 The QB was exceptional, the OC was average Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, BadboyBills said: Yes, when its instinctual, not designed. Get rid of the designed qb runs less fumbles. We need to find a stat for when its designed vs a breakdown of the pocket or instinctual runs. I bet he has less fumbles when its natural vs designed. I hate the designed runs, 90% of them unnecessary. Some of them converted 1st downs today. I don't agree 90% are unnecessary. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 Convinced the “Madden” franchise has made everyone think they are better than NFL coordinators. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Some of them converted 1st downs today. I don't agree 90% are unnecessary. I’d like to have seen fewer of those QB runs, and three straight seemed excessive (ending with a Josh fumble, so.....yeah). What is curious is how he had room to run, while the RB’s had so little, if any. It makes me think maybe these qualified people who do this for a living might be smarter than I am! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfield45 Posted September 14, 2020 Author Share Posted September 14, 2020 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: Yea it’s ridiculous to get on the OC for the calls because their QB is wreck less with the football. They are very effective when he holds onto the football. Allen fumble issues is just 1 aspect of it the other is constantly sending our franchise QB into 270LB LB's who area ready to rip his head off. its not worth the risk no matter how effective the plays are. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bills Fan Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 2 hours ago, GG said: I was confused with the offensive formations for much of the game. I understand the desire to create confusion with the pre-snap movements, but even as the ball was snapped most of the offensive players were still jumbled near the LOS as were the Jets' defenders. As someone pointed out, Bills don't have the RB talent to quickly hit a hole when one was there. Another case of not utilizing the formations that fit your personnel. I think that running out of a more spread out formation would have worked better. The good news that it worked. A win is a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 Josh is a very good running QB. He must utilize his ability to do so. Not JUST when the play breaks down. I feel our offense will function at its best if we continue to use him in called running plays. The read option was ugly today. Seemed as if he made the wrong decisions each time. It’s part of his learning process. If he gets comfortable making those reads and starts making the correct reads, it can be a major weapon. the biggest problem with him running, is his fumbling. That’s not on anyone but Josh. He has to improve his ball security. Plain and simple. The plays that he fumbles on, were good plays and produced. I can’t wait to watch him progress. Missing brown and (I think) knox in the endzone are the plays that really frustrate me. Wide open, he doesn’t even come close. Maddening, but the kid is a bada$$ 5 minutes ago, Augie said: I’d like to have seen fewer of those QB runs, and three straight seemed excessive (ending with a Josh fumble, so.....yeah). What is curious is how he had room to run, while the RB’s had so little, if any. It makes me think maybe these qualified people who do this for a living might be smarter than I am! Yeah, 3 in a row may have been overkill at the time but it was working. It would be brutal playing on a defense knowing that the QB is smashing the ball down your throat and you can’t do anything about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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