Does the NFL have a bubble plan? Covid rising

[NewEra]

19 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

i think it should be up to me because the "science" about mask wearing is up for debate , to say the least..  lotsa looters "protesters"  were not  wearing masks are you concerned about what they may have transmitted to other looters .. protesters" 

Lol.  
 

yes, it is up to you.  If there’s a chance that it helps, why wouldn’t you wear it?  Even if the science is “up for debate at least”.....we know for sure that wearing a mask doesn’t aid in the spread of the disease.  Wearing one doesn’t make you MORE prone to the disease or MORE prone to spreading it.  We can agree on that I would assume.  So if the other side of the debate, which still a chance of being true, is “wearing one makes you LESS prone to the disease and spreading the disease“, why wouldn’t you wear one?  You’re given the choice;  A:   Wear a mask and possibly curb the transmission of the disease OR B:  don’t wear a mask and not possibly curb the tranmission of the disease.  You choose B?

 

this is why I didn’t want to go here. 

[dwight in philly]

Just now, NewEra said:

Lol.  
 

yes, it is up to you.  If there’s a chance that it helps, why wouldn’t you wear it?  Even if the science is “up for debate at least”.....we know for sure that wearing a mask doesn’t aid in the spread of the disease.  Wearing one doesn’t make you MORE prone to the disease or MORE prone to spreading it.  We can agree on that I would assume.  So if the other side of the debate, which still a chance of being true, is “wearing one makes you LESS prone to the disease and spreading the disease“, why wouldn’t you wear one?  You’re given the choice;  A:   Wear a mask and possibly curb the transmission of the disease OR B:  don’t wear a mask and not possibly curb the tranmission of the disease.  You choose B?

 

this is why I didn’t want to go here. 

OK  your opinion i have mine .. 

[frostbitmic]

How many player and coaching fatalities would be acceptable ?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

7 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The NBA roster size is small compared to an NFL training camp roster of some 90 players.  So any plan is more manageable.   The NFL plan should include developing a detailed understanding of current treatment and testing options and what treatment and testing options are expected to be available by September.   This and developing a customized and personal risk assessment for each player, coach, training staff, and other team personnel.  So they can understand each person's specific risks of getting infected and the potential for serious illness since not everyone is going to feel sick and very few will have a high chance of dying. 

The other big difference is the length of time involved.  The NBA is just trying to finish up the season, think I read after 7 weeks, there will just be 8 teams left. 7 weeks is about the same length as NFL training camp and 8 teams isn't much larger than one NFL roster.  During training camp 8 teams isn't even as big as one NFL roster.

 

Think the only way this is going to work is they are just going to say players are going to miss games, the best team in the league might be hit the hardest and barely finish at .500, but the league will make TV money so likely take that risk. Players too will take the risk as sitting out a year, two years worth of rookies means many of these marginal players may never play again, i.e.  Darrell Johnson, Duke Williams, etc.  They may stil lbe out of the league by next year, but at least playing means they get that last big pay check.

[Logic]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

 

 

 

I quoted an article from a national source that people have heard of, that includes results of studies that have been done on the subject.

You, thus far, have quoted two tweets from some random people on Twitter with less than 1,000 followers.

That's the problem our country currently faces in a nutshell: In many people's eyes, the opinion of some random lunatic on the internet counts for as much as scientific studies. "I've researched the subject" means "I read about it for 10 minutes on some guy's Twitter feed". People think their OPINIONS have as much weight as SCIENCE. That's the problem.

[wppete]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

I quoted an article from a national source that people have heard of, that includes results of studies that have been done on the subject.

You, thus far, have quoted two tweets from some random people on Twitter with less than 1,000 followers.

That's the problem our country currently faces in a nutshell: In many people's eyes, the opinion of some random lunatic on the internet counts for as much as scientific studies. "I've researched the subject" means "I read about it for 10 minutes on some guy's Twitter feed". People think their OPINIONS have as much weight as SCIENCE. That's the problem.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Fauci

[Logic]

Just now, dwight in philly said:

i will proudly admit i support President Trump . my point is that masks should be up to the individual because of the unproven :"science"  about masks .. and Covid in general.. and again its just my opinion .. no prob..you have yours .. and we both live for the Bills ! no harm.. we had a discussion.l. 

Even if, in your opinion, the science about masks is "unproven", that still means that you concede that there is a possibility that masks DO help.

Like I said: If there's even a 10% chance that masks will help slow the spread of this virus and thus, save lives, and you're STILL choosing not to wear one, it's selfishness, pure and simple. You can say "it's just my opinion". The problem is that your "opinion" in this instance is leading you to do something that can potentially put other people's LIVES in danger. 

 

Just now, wppete said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Fauci

The FIRST LINE of the link you posted says that Fauci has been an immunologist for 34 years. 

But I suppose I'll believe you and the random Twitter friends you keep quoting instead of, ya know, experts in the fields of epidemiology and immunology.

Let me repeat: This is the problem. Too many people think that their OPINIONS -- based on having spent about 10 minutes reading pseudo-science and lies from random dingbats on Twitter and not vetting these opinions to confirm their veracity -- are worth as much as those of trained experts and scientific studies.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2020/06/13/masks-help-stop-the-spread-of-coronavirus-studies-say-but-wearing-them-still-a-political-issue/#1b8b343c604e

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/06/10/2009637117#sec-5

"Our analysis reveals that the difference with and without mandated face covering represents the determinant in shaping the trends of the pandemic worldwide. We conclude that wearing of face masks in public corresponds to the most effective means to prevent interhuman transmission, and this inexpensive practice, in conjunction with extensive testing, quarantine, and contact tracking, poses the most probable fighting opportunity to stop the COVID-19 pandemic, prior to the development of a vaccine. It is also important to emphasize that sound science should be effectively communicated to policy makers and should constitute the prime foundation in decision-making amid this pandemic"

[dwight in philly]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

Even if, in your opinion, the science about masks is "unproven", that still means that you concede that there is a possibility that masks DO help.

Like I said: If there's even a 10% chance that masks will help slow the spread of this virus and thus, save lives, and you're STILL choosing not to wear one, it's selfishness, pure and simple. You can say "it's just my opinion". The problem is that your "opinion" in this instance is leading you to do something that can potentially put other people's LIVES in danger. 

 

i choose the 90 per cent chance , based on your thinking.. "logic"

Edited June 23, 2020 by dwight in philly

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

i choose the 90 per cent chance , based on your thinking.. "logic"

I stand by what I said. You're making a selfish choice. 

By the way, Below is a link to a recent study on the matter, which I just posted a link to above your post. 

And one more thing. Ya know all the other countries...ya know, the ones that have essentially beat COVID and are starting to return to normal life? Masks. They all wore masks. But sure, continue to ignore science and real world results and continue to pretend like there's actually a reasonable debate about effectiveness of masks in mitigating the spread of COVID. Knock yourself out. If everyone thinks like you do, maybe we'll get to have a football season sometime a couple years from now. God forbid you have to undergo a SLIGHT bit of discomfort by wearing a scrap of fabric over your face for a few months.

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/06/10/2009637117#sec-5

"Our analysis reveals that the difference with and without mandated face covering represents the determinant in shaping the trends of the pandemic worldwide. We conclude that wearing of face masks in public corresponds to the most effective means to prevent interhuman transmission, and this inexpensive practice, in conjunction with extensive testing, quarantine, and contact tracking, poses the most probable fighting opportunity to stop the COVID-19 pandemic, prior to the development of a vaccine. It is also important to emphasize that sound science should be effectively communicated to policy makers and should constitute the prime foundation in decision-making amid this pandemic"

[dwight in philly]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

I stand by what I said. You're making a selfish choice. 

By the way, Below is a link to a recent study on the matter, which I just posted a link to above your post. 

And one more thing. Ya know all the other countries...ya know, the ones that have essentially beat COVID and are starting to return to normal life? Masks. They all wore masks. But sure, continue to ignore science and real world results and continue to pretend like there's actually a reasonable debate about effectiveness of masks in mitigating the spread of COVID. Knock yourself out. If everyone thinks like you do, maybe we'll get to have a football season sometime a couple years from now. God forbid you have to undergo a SLIGHT bit of discomfort by wearing a scrap of fabric over your face for a few months.

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/06/10/2009637117#sec-5

"Our analysis reveals that the difference with and without mandated face covering represents the determinant in shaping the trends of the pandemic worldwide. We conclude that wearing of face masks in public corresponds to the most effective means to prevent interhuman transmission, and this inexpensive practice, in conjunction with extensive testing, quarantine, and contact tracking, poses the most probable fighting opportunity to stop the COVID-19 pandemic, prior to the development of a vaccine. It is also important to emphasize that sound science should be effectively communicated to policy makers and should constitute the prime foundation in decision-making amid this pandemic"

i respect your opinion .. and i have informed myself as i can.. just disagree .. no problem 

[HardyBoy]

6 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

i respect your opinion .. and i have informed myself as i can.. just disagree .. no problem 

 

Right, so you have peer reviewed research showing a consensus of research showing face mask wearing is at best inconclusive? Can you share that with us please?

 

Cause if you're using the term science, you kinda gotta stick to the scientific method. Because science isn't like "your opinion man." It is applying a standardized method of gaining replicatable outcomes tested against a hypothesis to develop a larger understanding. So let's see your repeatable research

[Logic]

Just now, HardyBoy said:

 

Right, so you have peer reviewed research showing a consensus of research showing face mask wearing is at best inconclusive? Can you share that with us please?

 

Cause if you're using the term science, you kinda gotta stick to the scientific method. Because science isn't like "your opinion man." It is applying a standardized method of gaining replicatable outcomes tested against a hypothesis to develop a larger understanding. So let's see your repeatable research

Not only what HardyBoy said, but if you are admittedly "unsure" about masks being effective but are choosing not to wear them, can you please stay home and not go into any public spaces ever? Because choosing not to wear a mask in public spaces puts OTHER PEOPLE in danger. So when you say "I just disagree, no problem"...Well...it IS a problem, because you're endangering the lives of others. 

It would be like if I said "ya know what? I've educated myself as I can about using using the 'safety' switch on my gun, and I just don't agree with it. So when we hang out in common spaces, I'm gonna walk around with my gun and not have the safety on. No Problem". You see? It IS a problem. It's not just YOU that is affected by this choice!

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

Not only what HardyBoy said, but if you are admittedly "unsure" about masks being effective but are choosing not to wear them, can you please stay home and not go into any public spaces ever? Because choosing not to wear a mask in public spaces puts OTHER PEOPLE in danger. So when you say "I just disagree, no problem"...Well...it IS a problem, because you're endangering the lives of others. 

It would be like if I said "ya know what? I've educated myself as I can about using using the 'safety' switch on my gun, and I just don't agree with it. So when we hang out in common spaces, I'm gonna walk around with my gun and not have the safety on. No Problem". You see? It IS a problem. It's not just YOU that is affected by this choice!

And he’s so clueless to it.  I’m sure he still has no idea how wrong he is.  
 

dwight, every time you make your american made choice to go into public without a mask, the probability that you are potentially endangering others is greater than if you were wearing a mask.  Choosing not to is selfish and is in no way helping the cause. It’s hurting the cause.  

[HappyDays]

26 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

my point is that masks should be up to the individual because of the unproven :"science"  about masks

 

What sources do you have for the claim that this science is unproven? Here are a few sources I found that show the opposite:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/

 

In the community, masks appeared to be effective with and without hand hygiene, and both together are more protective.

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext

 

Face mask use could result in a large reduction in risk of infection with stronger associations with N95 or similar respirators compared with disposable surgical masks or similar

 

^Both of the above were meta analyses, meaning they reviewed a number of different studies and essentially combined the results into a single conclusion

 

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

 

This study provides evidence from a natural experiment on effects of state government mandates in the US for face mask use in public issued by 15 states plus DC between April 8 and May 15.

Mandating face mask use in public is associated with a decline in the daily COVID-19 growth rate by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage-points in 1–5, 6–10, 11–15, 16–20, and 21+ days after signing, respectively. Estimates suggest as many as 230,000–450,000 COVID-19 cases possibly averted By May 22, 2020 by these mandates. The findings suggest that requiring face mask use in public might help in mitigating COVID-19 spread.

 

And if peer reviewed science isn't your thing, how do you explain this:

 

https://www.livescience.com/hair-stylists-infected-covid19-face-masks.html

 

Two hair stylists in Missouri interacted with a total of 140 clients and six coworkers before learning they both had COVID-19 — thankfully, the stylists didn't pass the virus on to any of these contacts, according to a statement from the local health department. 

Appointment times had been staggered to limit potential contamination between customers, and the salon chairs were placed farther apart than usual. Stylists also remained 6 feet (1.8 meters) away from clients when not cutting their hair, and the salon required that both stylists and customers wear masks during appointments

the health department concluded that no client or coworker contracted the virus from either infected stylist. 

"This is exciting news about the value of masking to prevent COVID-19," Clay Goddard, director of the health department, said in the statement.

 

So now the ball is in your court. If you want to engage in a real scientific discussion then read through these snippets and come back with some of your own. If you want to bury your head in the sand that is also your right. Just don't bring that mindset into a legitimate scientific discussion.

[HardyBoy]

2 hours ago, dwight in philly said:

i think it should be up to me because the "science" about mask wearing is up for debate , to say the least..  lotsa looters "protesters"  were not  wearing masks are you concerned about what they may have transmitted to other looters .. protesters" 

 

Wait, so you are drawing a moral equivalence between people rising up in peaceful protest (99% of the protests have been peaceful) to bring attention to systemic racial injustice and going to the local outdoor store to buy a cooler?

 

I'm not even gonna get into the entirely peaceful protesters protesting and press reporting on it in front of the white house, a symbol of American democracy more important as a representation of anyone can hold that office (I mean I guess that's more literal than I always envisioned it these days) than the flag, being pepper sprayed. Please, can you please please please show a picture of those protesters with their masks off (which they only took off because they got tear gassed), eyes red with tears and chemical agent, coughing all over each other because of the gas...so that in the foreground, with tear gas floating in the air and unmarked police marching in a line behind them in the middle ground, anf then the person most highly entrusted with ensuring the constitution is not stepped on in the background holding an upside down bible?

 

I will bend over backwards to try and find middle ground with just about anyone to a point, and I hate left vs right line in the sand crap, because it's just flat out insane that on a multitude of topics any one side of an argument can be fully the best path forward, but you are making it a bit challenging. I would encourage you to try and be a bit more open to listening, because I'm sure you have valuable points to add to the conversation when you get past the repeating of someone else's talking points put in your mouth for their own personal gain.

Edited June 24, 2020 by HardyBoy

[BuffaloBob]

7 hours ago, jethro_tull said:

One thing to understand is that most of the media are not doing a good job at reporting information that is qualified to be meaningful to us.  

For example it seems daunting when there is a rise in confirmed cases- but we need to understand is that more people are being tested than ever before and the new case numbers are not a good indicator on what actions are needed.  

 

The best indicator IMHO are the rate of new fatalities.  This number is fairly consistently tracked and would show a trend of the actual cases both confirmed and unconfirmed.  

 

For example, the US 14 day trend is + 32% new cases, but down 31% in new deaths.  That is a big deal and a very encouraging sign.  

Actually, the more relevant indicator is the rate of new hospitalizations and percentage of available ICU beds.  Those are on the rise big time as available capacity is shrinking in many states.  There is about a 3 week lag in increased or decreased cases and fatalities.  It will be at least another 10-14 days before you start to see whether fatalities are remaining flat or on the down-slope notwithstanding those increases in cases.

 

Cali is actually over 6000 new cases for today.  Texas exceeded 5000 for the first time yesterday and are close to that number again today.  I hope that the resulting fatalities do not increase with the same rate as the rate of increase in new cases.  But that may not matter if the new cases begin to explode exponentially.  Cali will likely take some extreme measures to rein things in soon if they go up much higher, but FLA, Texas, Arizona, Georgia, Louisiana, etc. will probably wait until the numbers are really out of hand.  And when beds fill up, that will increase the fatality rate because you won't have the ability to handle the influx of the really sick.

 

I was hoping the weather and long days were going to tamp the transmission rate down for a few months, but it does not appear to be enough right now.

[BuffaloBob]

4 hours ago, kdub said:

 

I agree that this both points will decrease the effective death rate, but to definitely say that the death rate will not increase with a drastic increase in cases is hopeful at best.

Exactly.  Certainly it doesn't mean that, even if the RATE goes down due to some improved treatment protocols, etc., that the absolute number of fatalities won't go up considerably with a enough of an increase in the sheer number of cases.  Put another way, if the number of daily new cases doubles from today's number of 35,000 plus. to say 70,000 per day, while the new fatalities may not also double, it doesn't mean that they won't be significantly higher than they are today, or even what they were during the peak back in April/May, when the number was like 13,000 per week, on half the number of cases.

 

Also, the gains made in better treatment protocols in fact, may be swamped by the problems that can be caused by shortages of ICU beds in states that don't have enough to handle the increased hospitalizations that will come with a doubling of cases. 

Edited June 24, 2020 by BuffaloBob

[HardyBoy]

I think the understanding on the situation has changed on here a lot today on (maybe over the last few days, I hadn't been on in half a week or so). There are stages for dealing with things like this, similar to the stages of grief, and it looks like a lot of people are starting to make their way through to the end of them. I'm pretty objective in my approach initially to things, so I think that allows me to zoom past some of stages a bit at first. That's good in some ways (I was stocked up on stuff by the end of Feb), but bad as well, because when I go back to the stages later and am ready to talk about it, everyone has moved on (my dad died from cancer when I was 21, and I faked my way through the next few years with saying I was over it, and then finally was ready to deal with it and everyone had moved on...sorry for the downer in what is otherwise a super uplifting conversation, lol...fathers day sort of sucks especially now 15 years later having two young kids and everyone posting pictures of their dads and kids playing together).

 

Anyway, point is, be kind to people that might not be ready to fully accept this situation, each one of us was doing the same thing at some point as we moved along the stages. Also, make sure you are asking people close to you how they're doing with situations as sad and stressful like this, especially your kids if they are old enough to talk about it, because even if they said good 100 times, they might just be uncomfortable talking about it. I would expect this to be a dam bursting situation with kids especially and just a ton of emotion pouring out when they are ready to talk about it fully. There is no need for them to carry that trapped deep down in them for 15 years.

[blacklabel]

I wanna see a full season just as much as the next fan, but the closer we get to September, the less faith I have that it's gonna happen. If the so called leadership in this country had taken this thing seriously from the start then we'd likely be much further along. Other countries that acted quickly in ordering quarantine and then requiring masks have got their cases under control. It's kind of a travesty that one of the world's leading countries is in a mess like this. Many deaths could've been prevented, and I was just dumbfounded how some healthcare workers had to use trash bags and whatnot because PPE wasn't being provided. Unacceptable. 

 

And now it seems like the country is in a rush to "get back to normal" with a multitude of people who don't wanna follow any preventative measures and so cases are spiking again and it just doesn't seem like they're close to getting a real handle on this stuff. I mean, they cancelled all concerts, festivals, shows, carnivals, fairs, in addition to almost every sport for the rest of the year yet they're saying, "It's cool to go back to work, don't worry about it. But only work and then straight home!" Aside from grocery shopping there isn't a whole lot to do so a nation full of people with very few outlets for after-work activities is gonna become even more disgruntled, or so it would seem. 

 

I don't know what's gonna happen but looking at it right now, it seems like it's gonna be really difficult to make a season happen. 

[JetsFan20]

I mean the fact that players are testing positive in CFB in other sports before the games are even played is alarming. We just don’t seem ready for this right now as a country. 

[CEN-CAL17]

I wonder if they can run the numbers in the last couple weeks to see just how many people have tested positive and been asymptomatic? 
 

Seem like just about every case in college football these players have no symptoms.... Dr’s have been saying outs weakening, if that’s true will we see more people getting it with no symptoms?

[JetsFan20]

11 minutes ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

I wonder if they can run the numbers in the last couple weeks to see just how many people have tested positive and been asymptomatic? 
 

Seem like just about every case in college football these players have no symptoms.... Dr’s have been saying outs weakening, if that’s true will we see more people getting it with no symptoms?

There was a doctor in Italy that said it was weakening, but Fauchi said there is no way to determine that right now. 
 

These guys make a living off their bodies. They definitely don’t want to be exposed to this virus. 

 

[HardyBoy]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

That’s ok, we’re just going to stupid bro our way through it.  If enough of us have the opinion that it’s just a harmless flu, the virus will disappear.  It feeds off of fear like a Stephen King story.  Take away the fear and you take away its power.  If you wear a mask the terrorists win!

 

Haha, except they always realize it after just about everyone is dead and it's delivered like: "As Jimmy stumbled out of the zombie apocalypse with the bits of his friends still floating down from the sky around him, Jimmy chose to focus on living his life differently going forward. In fact Jimmy learned a valuable lesson that day as he realized in the moment before the zombie bit his head off. That moment when his fear gave way to calm acceptance and the zombie just poof, vanished. He had it within him the entire time, amd though he didn't realize in time to save 30 of his closest friends and family, but he would keep with him forever the fact that they did not die in vain, and with that knowledge he could finally be happy. Because on that day he realized that fear is the root of all evil."

 

Or something like that...I just read 500 pages for that moral!  I've only read Cell, Despiration and Green Mile by him though and it was like 10 years ago...Green Mile for the win though, sooo good!

 

Dean Koontz is similar in how he does that too a bit.

Edited June 24, 2020 by HardyBoy

[Nextmanup]

17 hours ago, Ramza86 said:

We are getting closer to actual sports.....teammates are practicing with each other..lots of opportunity to get Covid. Do they have a real plan in place to keep the NFL covid free before camp/preseason? Nobody wants a key player to test positive the day before camp.

 

I think the NBA has the right idea by locking everyone in Orlando. Get tested...if you are clear you can live in the bubble and cannot leave. 

Are we getting closer to actual sports?

 

We are getting closer to league proposed start dates for some sports.

 

Actually playing games is a different matter entirely.

 

I have said for months now that I will be surprised if the NFL is playing real games in early September as planned.

 

I don't think the proposed NHL playoff will happen at all, and baseball was supposed to start around July 4th.  That's going to be delayed and it may be a while before we see their games too.

[dwight in philly]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

What sources do you have for the claim that this science is unproven? Here are a few sources I found that show the opposite:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/

 

 

 

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext

 

 

 

 

^Both of the above were meta analyses, meaning they reviewed a number of different studies and essentially combined the results into a single conclusion

 

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

 

 

 

 

And if peer reviewed science isn't your thing, how do you explain this:

 

https://www.livescience.com/hair-stylists-infected-covid19-face-masks.html

 

 

 

 

So now the ball is in your court. If you want to engage in a real scientific discussion then read through these snippets and come back with some of your own. If you want to bury your head in the sand that is also your right. Just don't bring that mindset into a legitimate scientific discussion.

 

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

What sources do you have for the claim that this science is unproven? Here are a few sources I found that show the opposite:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/

 

 

 

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext

 

 

 

 

^Both of the above were meta analyses, meaning they reviewed a number of different studies and essentially combined the results into a single conclusion

 

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

 

 

 

 

And if peer reviewed science isn't your thing, how do you explain this:

 

https://www.livescience.com/hair-stylists-infected-covid19-face-masks.html

 

 

 

 

So now the ball is in your court. If you want to engage in a real scientific discussion then read through these snippets and come back with some of your own. If you want to bury your head in the sand that is also your right. Just don't bring that mindset into a legitimate scientific discussion.

Again , was offering  an opinion 

[Trogdor]

I haven't seen this many people come together to disagree with a single poster since that Alabama guy told us Foster was the second coming. 

[Coach Tuesday]

32 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

 

Again , was offering  an opinion 

You’re trolling.  You know that’s not how opinions work right?  You don’t get to have the “opinion” that the Earth is flat.  You know this - you just enjoy poking anyone you think is a “liberal” - there’s nothing you enjoy more, I suspect.  

[123719bwiqrb]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Baseball is starting July 23rd.

Until it doesn't. Zero NBA, MLB, NHL, and NFL games will be played this year.

Edited June 24, 2020 by 123719bwiqrb

[Rochesterfan]

8 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

I wonder if they can run the numbers in the last couple weeks to see just how many people have tested positive and been asymptomatic? 
 

Seem like just about every case in college football these players have no symptoms.... Dr’s have been saying outs weakening, if that’s true will we see more people getting it with no symptoms?

 

I am not sure how they do that.  The national calls our medical leaders are on with other health care leaders around the country (and world) is not really showing a weakening as hospitalizations are increasing significantly in many areas and ICU capacity is less than 20% in many of these areas - a huge concern and a stark realization that it is not weaker and the heat of Florida, Texas, and Arizona is not stopping the spread.  The biggest differences in deaths will be the advancements made in treatment to people in ICU’s rather than the virus being weaker.

 

They are also having issues with “symptoms” because the presentation in younger, healthier population is different than in older populations.  Doctors are now recognizing that what you look for in a 50-70 year old patient as symptoms- fever, shortness of breath, cough, breathing difficulties, etc. - is missed in the younger population because of greater lung capacity.  They find that many of these kids have slightly impaired lung function and minor inflammation (as seen with certain lab tests), but not enough that the person really notices - so are they asymptomatic or are they symptomatic with minor issues.  
 

They are also trying to look at their ability to spread because many times they do not notice the signs as they are minor and are now coming up positive as part of their training and getting back to schools, but the contact tracing on these kids is critical because they tend to be more open and free and therefore more likely to be exposed to higher numbers of people than the more elderly population.  
 

It is a huge and important part and it will be very interesting to see as the governor of Texas is finally admitting it is an issue again and is telling people to stay home - with a warning that if things don’t change - they may have to shut down again.  They are also threatening bar and restaurant owners with losing their licenses over crowds - something almost unheard of for a Texas governor.  I think if it is bad enough that they are talking about next steps backwards - I think that answers some of the weakening.

 

So I hope the NFL has a big overall plan as Florida, Texas, Arizona, and California account for 10 NFL teams in states with rising cases that can have a major impact on the overall season.  We will see and I have faith the NFL is making many plans even if we almost never here of anything except - we plan on playing a full season.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, dwight in philly said:

 

Again , was offering  an opinion 

 

This country is in serious trouble.

Edited June 24, 2020 by HappyDays

[Coach Tuesday]

40 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This country is in serious trouble.

 

It really is.  I know people who went to the hospital with COVID and never came out.  No pre-existing conditions.  Their families are devastated.  But some folks think they get to have the "opinion" that masks don't do anything and it's their right not to wear them, that we've waited long enough to crowd into concerts and bars and restaurants and monster truck rallies.  Great American Idiocy is on full display right now.  

Edited June 24, 2020 by Coach Tuesday

[PromoTheRobot]

 

[BillsFan4]

https://theathletic.com/1887591/2020/06/23/i-dont-think-i-trust-the-league-yet-bills-players-reckon-with-case-outbreaks/

(Athletic sub. required)

 

Quote

Major League Baseball closed down training facilities in Florida and Arizona after outbreaks. The Tampa Bay Lightning shut down their facility after three players and additional staff tested positive. Nick Watney contracted it and withdrew from this weekend’s PGA Tour event. The Orlando Pride pulled out of the NWSL tournament after six players and four staffers contracted it. Top-ranked tennis player Novak Djokovic tested positive after an outbreak at his charity event in Croatia. A group of 30 UCLA football players demanded independent oversight of coach Chip Kelly’s coronavirus policies. A third of national champion LSU’s roster is under quarantine.

 

All of these events happened since Friday. And this is only a partial list.

 

“Talking to a lot of guys around the league,” said Bills safety and NFL Players Association team representative alternate Micah Hyde, “that’s something that has to get figured out or else they don’t want to participate. I want to see where things go in the next month or so, but seeing all these spikes across the country and all these college teams with outbreaks is not good.”

 

Although the league hasn’t put forth any COVID-19 protocols yet, infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci said last week the NFL would need to implement a “bubble” format (isolation and frequent testing) similar to what the NBA and MLS are implementing.

 

Should the NFL require isolation to play, Hyde said he would choose his family over football. He wouldn’t be alone.

 

“If you told me right now I could play this season but I wouldn’t see my family, I don’t know if I’m doing that,” Hyde said. “It’s bigger than football. I want to get back just as much as the next guy and compete, but your family is what keeps you sane, and I’m not going to risk someone else’s life to play a game.”

One of Hyde’s grandparents is in cancer remission; another is undergoing chemotherapy. Hyde also welcomed a son this spring.

 

So did Buffalo kicker Stephen Hauschka, who echoed Hyde’s family-first sentiment. “If it comes down to football or seeing your family for six months,” Hauschka said, “I think most players will choose to see their families.

“The NFL would love it if guys would isolate from our families and keep this thing tight, but it’s not going to work like that. I don’t think the players’ union would let something like that happen.”

 

[HardyBoy]

2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I am not sure how they do that.  The national calls our medical leaders are on with other health care leaders around the country (and world) is not really showing a weakening as hospitalizations are increasing significantly in many areas and ICU capacity is less than 20% in many of these areas - a huge concern and a stark realization that it is not weaker and the heat of Florida, Texas, and Arizona is not stopping the spread.  The biggest differences in deaths will be the advancements made in treatment to people in ICU’s rather than the virus being weaker.

 

 

Well said.

 

I think we saw the same concern with the virus being prevalent in hot south east asian counties in Feb and March.

 

Regarding the bolded part, living in south florida, I think something that needs to be talked about way more is that during the summer down here, people go inside, and we spend a lot more time outside during the rest of the year. Not to discount people not taking it seriously, there are a ton of people acting business as usual down here.

 

It's not even that we spend less time outside during the summer, it's that we can't really spend that much time outside if we wanted to.

 

Forget the heat for a second (with an umbrella as long as the humidity isn't absolutely brutal you can handle it, and honestly I don't think we've even really hit the start of summer weather quite yet), it's the mosquitos. We got over 17 inches of rain in May and another 5.5 in June in fort lauderdale (mostly in big rainfall events). The mosquitoes are absolutely brutal on my back deck (hoping I found where they were breeding and flipped over a bucket, but our plants down here evolved to literally hold water in them for birds and such to drink out of. I actually bought a giant mosquito net when all this started back in feb, but the idea of having to take it down before every rain storm is keeping me from putting it up.

 

Anyway, short version, I think in the summer up north people go outside, and down south in the summer people go inside, especially south florida where everything is pretty much so efficiently air conditioned.

[BillsFan4]

12 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

That’s ok, we’re just going to stupid bro our way through it.  If enough of us have the opinion that it’s just a harmless flu, the virus will disappear.  It feeds off of fear like a Stephen King story.  Take away the fear and you take away its power.  If you wear a mask the terrorists win!

OMG I almost spit out my drink laughing! ??

 

You forgot about testing though. We need to do away with that too.

No testing = no cases. Like for example, Recently my GF told me she might be pregnant. I told her not to take a pregnancy test because I’m not ready for a kid. No positive test = no kid. Problem solved! 

[ROCBillsBeliever]

On 6/23/2020 at 11:21 AM, ScottLaw said:

This.

 

Country is a disaster. No leadership whatsoever. 

 

@scottlaw Mark it down: I am agreeing with you, for once. Put a feather in your cap, and wear it all day ?

 

[HardyBoy]

1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said:

OMG I almost spit out my drink laughing! ??

 

You forgot about testing though. We need to do away with that too.

No testing = no cases. Like for example, Recently my GF told me she might be pregnant. I told her not to take a pregnancy test because I’m not ready for a kid. No positive test = no kid. Problem solved! 

 

Then when she ends up having the kid, just say you were joking about pregnancy tests you always wanted her to get a pregnancy test (it's on us if we couldn't detect the sarcasm) and say were actually talking about a paternity test. 

 

That corrupt, Maurey Pauvich, calling me on his show to do a paternity test. And he's a phony, phony Maurey people call him, and it's all for the ratings and his ratings stink, though sometimes I do get surprised when they say "you are the father." I think wow, that is like a time machine, going back in the past to see who the dad was, poor guy has to live in these magical times of time travel, but the rating stink folks, they stink. Now they want you to believe that I am the father, but they have no proof, it's all fake news people, it's fake, they're just trying to use me for the ratings.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

On 6/23/2020 at 9:46 AM, nedboy7 said:

It seems pretty clear that no one has a clear plan at this time.  Not at local or federal level.  Just a giant display of ineptitude. 

GREED also plays a huge role in this. If I was a top 40 player and had millions in the bank there is no way I would be playing this year. 

[Mikie2times]

On 6/23/2020 at 12:43 PM, jethro_tull said:

One thing to understand is that most of the media are not doing a good job at reporting information that is qualified to be meaningful to us.  

For example it seems daunting when there is a rise in confirmed cases- but we need to understand is that more people are being tested than ever before and the new case numbers are not a good indicator on what actions are needed.  

 

The best indicator IMHO are the rate of new fatalities.  This number is fairly consistently tracked and would show a trend of the actual cases both confirmed and unconfirmed.  

 

For example, the US 14 day trend is + 32% new cases, but down 31% in new deaths.  That is a big deal and a very encouraging sign.  

I think that stat is a bit flawed, some areas are experiencing higher positives in younger demographics. Further, death rate trails positive rate considerably. If you want the most clear outlook,  % positive tests. Yes, Trump was right, more tests, more positive totals. But the % movement should be decreasing against a stable or rising test rate if you want validation that cases are actually declining. 

[HappyDays]

On 6/24/2020 at 4:19 PM, dwight in philly said:

Just heard people of color do not have to wear masks in an oregon county.. as i have heard about the "science" on here.. what kind of "science"is that ? seriously .. i want to learn 

 

I heard about that, it's a stupid policy with flimsy reasoning. But that's just one county. Don't let that confuse you. The science is still clear.

On 6/24/2020 at 5:15 PM, Coach Tuesday said:

Got a link?

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/us/oregon-county-people-of-color-mask-trnd/index.html

 

Not to get off topic too much but the policy is very real and very stupid.

[Edit: per the link above it sounds as if the county in question rescinded their stupid policy so, there's that]