Defund the Police?

[Rob's House]

46 minutes ago, Hedge said:

It seems like she was actually his step-mother, but...

 

 

"Our unwavering commitment to always do the right thing has led us to severe ties with an employee who expressed views that do not align with our culture..."

 

This could have been a conversation like:

"You're step-son is a racist murderer."

"No. He really isn't, he was doing his job."

"FIRED!"

 

I hope we hear her side of this soon.

 

 

Equity Prime Mortgage in Atlanta

678-205-3554

In case you would like to see about the job.

[Sig1Hunter]

26 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

 

If people were serious about the issue these are the conversations they'd be having.

 

There are a lot of aspects of the criminal justice system that could be reformed that would go a lot further in addressing unjust outcomes for people of all races than focusing on police practices.

 

Most of the greatest injustices happen in the courtroom where the cop has no official power. In some states prosecutors can stack charges in ways never intended and force a jury trial (juries can't suspend time) which often means risking extra years or decades in prison for the privilege of exercising your right to trial. On top of that, legislators have become increasingly fond of mandatory minimum sentencing, which is categorically abominable.

 

I've seen an innocent man faced with the choice of pleading guilty and serving 2.5 years or go to trial where if convicted he would serve a mandatory life sentence. The only involvement the cops had was investigating and picking him up after the prosecutor issued the indictment.

 

Teaching the public how to handle a police encounter would probably save more lives than additional police training, but no one wants to talk about that either. It's extremely rare for a cop to kill someone out of any motive other than fear. If you know how to handle the situation you significantly reduce the already low risk of becoming a statistic. Bit that's skating dangerously close to "victim blaming."

 

There are police tactics I don't care for, particularly wrt seeking out arrests where it isn't necessary, but that doesn't get talked about either. That's more an issue of pressures placed on officers to make arrests than with [most of] the officers themselves. It's also fueled by budgetary concerns, so no politician will touch it.

 

People aren't interested in putting forth the effort required to really understand the issues and come up with solutions. It's easier to rage about things they don't understand and feel good about themselves for it.

Perfectly put, on all accounts. 

[Penfield45]

14 hours ago, westside2 said:

Let it burn, that's what they want. In fact, I wouldn't mind if all the liberal cities burned to the ground!

 

the liberal cities are literally whats keeping america afloat lol

 

thats why California has the 5th highest GDP in the world. California alone could suffocate the entire south and midwestern united states if they wanted to. 

 

you do realize Buffalo is a liberal city also right ? 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Penfield45

[Hedge]

1 hour ago, Hedge said:

It seems like she was actually his step-mother, but...

 

 

"Our unwavering commitment to always do the right thing has led us to severe ties with an employee who expressed views that do not align with our culture..."

 

This could have been a conversation like:

"You're step-son is a racist murderer."

"No. He really isn't, he was doing his job."

"FIRED!"

 

I hope we hear her side of this soon.

 

 

 

[Westside]

17 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

 

the liberal cities are literally whats keeping america afloat lol

 

thats why California has the 5th highest GDP in the world. California alone could suffocate the entire south and midwestern united states if they wanted to. 

 

you do realize Buffalo is a liberal city also right ? 

Do you know California is in serious debt? It's on the verge of going bankrupt. You take away the liberal cities and crime would be reduced immediately? You say democratic cities is keeping America afloat? Like Detroit,  st. Louis,  gary Indiana,  LA,? They are bringing America down, not keeping America afloat. 

I assume by your name you are a resident of Penfield. A upper class WHITE town. Nice schools, parks, quality of life.  It's awfully easy to comment about democratic cities while you live in a white suburb.

[B-Man]

19 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

 

the liberal cities are literally whats keeping america afloat lol

 

Wow!

 

that “literally” is bullsh*t. 
 

 

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Rob's House said:

People aren't interested in putting forth the effort required to really understand the issues and come up with solutions. It's easier to rage about things they don't understand and feel good about themselves for it.

 

Amen.

 

This is what is driving me nuts on this thing.  If we want to solve the police brutality and higher death rates per % of population for blacks, we would study the problem first to see exactly what we have.  In 2020 we.have data analytic methods that can determine trends and patterns in large amounts of structured and unstructured data.  Perhaps we could find some things we didn't know that we could fix.  It is used for all sorts of applications.

 

IBM Watson is such a technology. I'm not necessarily saying use that. There are others. It's just the one I know about cuz I used to work for IBM.

 

Load on all the data for every case where someone was killed by police. Police reports, trial transcripts, any private investigations that were done, depositions, forensics, ballistics, autopsy reports etc.  See what trends/commonalities come out of it.I

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_data

Edited June 19, 2020 by reddogblitz

[Rob's House]

10 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Amen.

 

This is what is driving me nuts on this thing.  If we want to solve the police brutality and higher death rates per % of population for blacks, we would study the problem first to see exactly what we have.  In 2020 we.have data analytic methods that can determine trends and patterns in large amounts of structured and unstructured data.  Perhaps we could find some things we didn't know that we could fix.  It is used for all sorts of applications.

 

IBM Watson is such a technology. I'm not necessarily saying use that. There are others. It's just the one I know about cuz I used to work for IBM.

 

Load on all the data for every case where someone was killed by police. Police reports, trial transcripts, any private investigations that were done, depositions, forensics, ballistics, autopsy reports etc.  See what trends/commonalities come out of it.I

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_data

 

As someone who recently bought stock in IBM I support this.

[US Egg]

When the Bills, and to a lesser extent Sabres, are playing again and there's no police there for traffic and pedestrian control and not handling the unrulys, how much better the fan experience will certainty be.

[Westside]

1 minute ago, I am the egg man said:

When the Bills, and to a lesser extent Sabres, are playing again and there's no police there for traffic and pedestrian control and not handling the unrulys, how much better the fan experience will certainty be.

Amen to that!! We'd finally be free!!!

I'm sure everyone would be on their best behavior with no law enforcement around.

[US Egg]

4 minutes ago, westside2 said:

Amen to that!! We'd finally be free!!!

I'm sure everyone would be on their best behavior with no law enforcement around.

Canalside without cops ought have a much nicer clientele who won't act out as well as those who frequent along the harbour front offerings along Furhman Blvd.

[reddogblitz]

46 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

When the Bills, and to a lesser extent Sabres, are playing again and there's no police there for traffic and pedestrian control and not handling the unrulys, how much better the fan experience will certainty be.

 

Well, they'll use unarmed street patrol. But they'd still need a few cops there just in case I guess.

 

The thing no one talks about in this re imagining the police in regards to using social workers and marriage counselors to respond to calls is where are these people going to come from?  There are not that many social workers and they don't make much money and are over worked.

 

We don't have mental health systems in place for responding to calls and committing people for observation and treatment. Where we gonna put 'em?  On top of that, the mental health treatment success rate is very low.

 

It would also mean 911 operators would have to be very adept at diagnosing the problem in short order to send the right people.  

 

We would need a lot more specialists and the ability to deploy them properly.

 

The reason we send cops out to everything is cuz that's all we got.

 

Oh, and all this will have to be done while state and local governments are short on funds due to the COVID-19 shutdown.  Jay "The Snake" Inslee is already promising draconian budget cuts if the Feds don't send him money.

 

I don't trust the government to be able to re organize and set up all this without making it worse.

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by reddogblitz

[US Egg]

3 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Well, they'll use unarmed street patrol. But they'd still need a few cops there just in case I guess.

 

The thing no one talks about in this re imagining the police in regards to using social workers and marriage counselors to respond to calls is where are these people going to come from?  There are not that many social workers and they don't make much money and are over worked.

 

We don't have mental health systems in place for responding to calls and committing people for observation and treatment. Where we gonna put 'em?  On top of that, the mental health treatment success rate is very low.

 

It would also mean 911 operators would have to be very adept at diagnosing the problem in short order to send the right people.  

 

We would need a lot more specialists and the ability to deploy them properly.

 

The reason we send cops out to everything is cuz that's all we got.

 

I don't trust the government to be able to re organize and set up all this without making it worse.

 

 

[Hedge]

 

 

[Koko78]

11 hours ago, Rob's House said:

 

If people were serious about the issue these are the conversations they'd be having.

 

There are a lot of aspects of the criminal justice system that could be reformed that would go a lot further in addressing unjust outcomes for people of all races than focusing on police practices.

 

Most of the greatest injustices happen in the courtroom where the cop has no official power. In some states prosecutors can stack charges in ways never intended and force a jury trial (juries can't suspend time) which often means risking extra years or decades in prison for the privilege of exercising your right to trial. On top of that, legislators have become increasingly fond of mandatory minimum sentencing, which is categorically abominable.

 

I've seen an innocent man faced with the choice of pleading guilty and serving 2.5 years or go to trial where if convicted he would serve a mandatory life sentence. The only involvement the cops had was investigating and picking him up after the prosecutor issued the indictment.

 

Teaching the public how to handle a police encounter would probably save more lives than additional police training, but no one wants to talk about that either. It's extremely rare for a cop to kill someone out of any motive other than fear. If you know how to handle the situation you significantly reduce the already low risk of becoming a statistic. Bit that's skating dangerously close to "victim blaming."

 

There are police tactics I don't care for, particularly wrt seeking out arrests where it isn't necessary, but that doesn't get talked about either. That's more an issue of pressures placed on officers to make arrests than with [most of] the officers themselves. It's also fueled by budgetary concerns, so no politician will touch it.

 

People aren't interested in putting forth the effort required to really understand the issues and come up with solutions. It's easier to rage about things they don't understand and feel good about themselves for it.

 

I would agree with this.

[Warren Zevon]

11 hours ago, Bakin said:

The cop kept him face down to avoid being poisoned by Floyd’s fentanyl overdose. 
autopsy showed no injuries to Floyd neck or throat. 
 

 

FakeNews

[IDBillzFan]

For your amusement.

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 What Happens When the Cops Have Had Enough?

 

 

 

[Tux of Borg]

Shootout in Minneapolis last night.  
 

 

Shootout in Atlanta last night.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/BarnBurnerBaby/status/1274174093731016704
 

[Reality Check]

17 minutes ago, Tux of Borg said:

Shootout in Minneapolis last night.  
 

 

Shootout in Atlanta last night.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/BarnBurnerBaby/status/1274174093731016704
 

This is great news.

 

I hope the police weren't involved.

[Doc]

37 minutes ago, Tux of Borg said:

Shootout in Minneapolis last night.  
 

 

Shootout in Atlanta last night.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/BarnBurnerBaby/status/1274174093731016704
 

 

Dumbasses just standing there filming/watching it instead of taking cover, and one of them takes one in the leg. 

[billsfan1959]

On 6/19/2020 at 1:09 AM, reddogblitz said:

 

Amen.

 

This is what is driving me nuts on this thing.  If we want to solve the police brutality and higher death rates per % of population for blacks, we would study the problem first to see exactly what we have.  In 2020 we.have data analytic methods that can determine trends and patterns in large amounts of structured and unstructured data.  Perhaps we could find some things we didn't know that we could fix.  It is used for all sorts of applications.

 

IBM Watson is such a technology. I'm not necessarily saying use that. There are others. It's just the one I know about cuz I used to work for IBM.

 

Load on all the data for every case where someone was killed by police. Police reports, trial transcripts, any private investigations that were done, depositions, forensics, ballistics, autopsy reports etc.  See what trends/commonalities come out of it.I

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_data

 

It is not just analyzing data involving cases where a black citizen is killed by police. It also involves all the data around violent crime that drives (1) the level of police response in black communities at a rate higher than any other group per % of population and (2) the nature of police responses in those communities. It also involves analyses of underlying socioeconomic and subcultural issues that have allowed the violent elements within many of these communities to create a virtual "war zone" between black men within the communities, and between black men and the police - all at the expense of the majority of good, decent men and women in those communities. It involves the need for real innovative and creative ideas in policing. 

 

I agree with you that we should be using all the technology at our disposal to breakdown data. However, it is not just the numbers. The problems are complex and deep, and everyone involved shares some level of culpability.

 

We can do all of these things; however, it has to begin with honest, open dialogue, where everyone has the ability to look at themselves and their roles in how we have arrived here, and where we go from here. Unfortunately, the national dialogue is filled only with the voices from the extremes.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

8 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

It is not just analyzing data involving cases where a black citizen is killed by police. It also involves all the data around violent crime that drives (1) the level of police response in black communities at a rate higher than any other group per % of population and (2) the nature of police responses in those communities. It also involves analyses of underlying socioeconomic and subcultural issues that have allowed the violent elements within many of these communities to create a virtual "war zone" between black men within the communities, and between black men and the police - all at the expense of the majority of good, decent men and women in those communities. It involves the need for real innovative and creative ideas in policing. 

 

I agree with you that we should be using all the technology at our disposal to breakdown data. However, it is not just the numbers. The problems are complex and deep, and everyone involved shares some level of culpability.

 

We can do all of these things; however, it has to begin with honest, open dialogue, where everyone has the ability to look at themselves and their roles in how we have arrived here, and where we go from here. Unfortunately, the national dialogue is filled only with the voices from the extremes.

As a nation we had been moving past the concept of grouping citizens together by race, skin color, ethnicity.  It was far from perfect, but the goal was to treat individuals as individuals.  Now, a million LEOs stylized as a hate group, white male toxic culture and one group of privilege based on their skin color regardless of circumstances. 
 

There are no new ideas, just cycles of the same stupidity over and over, run by the same divisive puppet masters over and over. 

[unbillievable]

9 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

As a nation we had been moving past the concept of grouping citizens together by race, skin color, ethnicity.

That was a decade ago.

It's racist, not to see race, gender, sexuality, etc. People need their oppression points.

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

As a nation we had been moving past the concept of grouping citizens together by race, skin color, ethnicity.  It was far from perfect, but the goal was to treat individuals as individuals.  Now, a million LEOs stylized as a hate group, white male toxic culture and one group of privilege based on their skin color regardless of circumstances. 
 

There are no new ideas, just cycles of the same stupidity over and over, run by the same divisive puppet masters over and over. 

 

The saddest part of all is that the people who are screaming the loudest are the very people who who never want to substantively discuss real solutions and benefit the most from keeping things exactly as they are. 

 

The citizens living in black communities overrun by violent crime, poverty, lack of ownership, lack of employment, and lack of hope should be angry right now - just not for the reasons pushed by those with agendas.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...call for defunding police seems to be going well.....and now we have Rochester emulating the "Chicago Shooting Gallery"......YAWN...........

 

New York City sees surge in murders, burglaries, NYPD says

By Nick Givas | Fox News

 

Crime statistics released by the New York Police Department (NYPD) on Thursday showed a rise in the city's murder rate during the month of May, as protests and riots continued following the death of George Floyd.

The numbers showed that murders in the city had increased by 79 percent, CBS 2 reported. Shootings went up by 64 percent and burglaries reportedly rose by 34 percent.

The NYPD said it will have hundreds of officers patrolling the streets this summer, specifically in neighborhoods that have seen a spike in violent crime.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-city-sees-surge-in-murders-burglaries-nypd-says

 

String of Friday shootings hit City of Rochester

Patrick Moussignac
Updated: June 19, 2020 11:09 PM
Created: June 19, 2020 10:15 PM

 

ROCHESTER, N.Y. (WHEC) — Rochester Police are asking for the public's help to catch the people who are responsible for several different shootings. They know someone has information that could lead to an arrest.

 

Around 2 p.m. Friday, police responded to Bardin and Minder Streets after a man now identified as 31-year old Parris Washington was found shot to death behind a house. Grieving family and friends gathered at the scene. One man who lived around the corner and who only wanted to be identified as "Greg" told News10NBC what he heard.

 

"When I was on the porch listening to music, I hear a lot of fireworks, but that was unusual that they were not fireworks. It was a pop, pop," said Greg. 

 

https://www.whec.com/rochester-new-york-news/string-of-friday-shootings-hit-city-of-rochester/5765555/?cat=565

 

 

[Buffalo_Gal]

49 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

That was a decade ago.

It's racist, not to see race, gender, sexuality, etc. People need their oppression points.

Life as part of the perpetually aggrieved must be really sad, lonely, and completely devoid of any joy.

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, unbillievable said:

That was a decade ago.

It's racist, not to see race, gender, sexuality, etc. People need their oppression points.

I'm going back farther than that though.  Its not all that long ago the Irish/Italian/Polish/African-American etc stuck together like glue and crossing lines was generally unthinkable.  Over time, people of substance and courage fought the great fight and things got better for many.  I'm not naive, racism is prevalent today, and black people are often still on the wrong side of that more often than most. 

 

One of the most poignant example of progress (beyond election of congresspeople, senators and BO) came from the most unlikely place:

 

Jussie Smollet.  His case was handled like that of a Kennedy, something that never would have happened in Chicago even a short time ago.  Outrage followed, just like it would have when a Kennedy strayed and caught a cool break.  

 

I support every peaceful  protestor out there.  I despise looters, anarchists and the like as most people do.  

 

Anyway. 

[unbillievable]

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I'm going back farther than that though.  Its not all that long ago the Irish/Italian/Polish/African-American etc stuck together like glue and crossing lines was generally unthinkable.  Over time, people of substance and courage fought the great fight and things got better for many.  I'm not naive, racism is prevalent today, and black people are often still on the wrong side of that more often than most. 

 

One of the most poignant example of progress (beyond election of congresspeople, senators and BO) came from the most unlikely place:

 

Jussie Smollet.  His case was handled like that of a Kennedy, something that never would have happened in Chicago even a short time ago.  Outrage followed, just like it would have when a Kennedy strayed and caught a cool break.  

 

I support every peaceful  protestor out there.  I despise looters, anarchists and the like as most people do.  

 

Anyway. 

Being black, gay, and French, Juicy had a lot of oppression points.

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

.....and now Syracuse NY joins the "shooting gallery....SMH......

 

Syracuse Police Chief: 9 Victims, 1 in Critical Condition After Shootings

 

By Spectrum News Staff Central NY
PUBLISHED 9:36 PM ET Jun. 20, 2020 UPDATED 10:46 PM ET Jun. 20, 2020

 

Multiple people have been shot in Syracuse Saturday night. Police Chief Kenton Buckner confirmed there were nine total victims, with one victim currently in critical condition.

 

It happened in the area of Wyoming and Marcellus Streets, that's in the area of Performance Park. Police responded to reports of several shots fired.

 

Buckner confirmed several hundred people were gathered near the West Side at a party, the area where the shooting broke out. The victims have all been transported to area hospitals and the scene is now under control, but police are urging West Side residents to stay inside and call police with any information they have.

 

We're also told officers responded to a separate call for a shooting on Bellevue Ave. Buckner did confirm shootings took place in different locations.

 

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/rochester/news/2020/06/21/large-police-presence-forming-at-wcny-parking-lot

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

All of this is nothing more than election year fodder. I rarely agree with Sean Hannity but on this he’s correct. Every four years they trot out the same crap to get people thinking they’re being oppressed so they can keep their voters in line. It happens like clockwork. And it must work or they wouldn’t keep doing it! But, I’ve got to wonder where all of this systemic outrage was for the last three years when everyone had a job and had to get up and go to work in the morning? BLM was back in its shell waiting like the locusts to emerge from the ground and consume all of the crops in the field. 

[GG]

What could go wrong?

 

At Least 19 Injured In Over A Dozen Shootings Across NYC In 24 Hours

[Tiberius]

Guns! What could go wrong? 

[Foxx]

are you libs happy now? you are getting what you so desire.

 

https://twitter.com/NYPDDetectives/status/1274447910814593024

 

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1274578579137806336

 

[Chef Jim]

23 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

The saddest part of all is that the people who are screaming the loudest are the very people who who never want to substantively discuss real solutions and benefit the most from keeping things exactly as they are. 

 

The citizens living in black communities overrun by violent crime, poverty, lack of ownership, lack of employment, and lack of hope should be angry right now - just not for the reasons pushed by those with agendas.

 

And the people in these areas are electing the same people over and over and over again.  The definition of insanity. 

[RochesterRob]

22 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I'm going back farther than that though.  Its not all that long ago the Irish/Italian/Polish/African-American etc stuck together like glue and crossing lines was generally unthinkable.  Over time, people of substance and courage fought the great fight and things got better for many.  I'm not naive, racism is prevalent today, and black people are often still on the wrong side of that more often than most. 

 

One of the most poignant example of progress (beyond election of congresspeople, senators and BO) came from the most unlikely place:

 

Jussie Smollet.  His case was handled like that of a Kennedy, something that never would have happened in Chicago even a short time ago.  Outrage followed, just like it would have when a Kennedy strayed and caught a cool break.  

 

I support every peaceful  protestor out there.  I despise looters, anarchists and the like as most people do.  

 

Anyway. 

  A little before my time but I don't recall my elders saying that groups organized by ethnicity were strongly insulated.  In most towns in WNY there were communities within communities.  The Irish, Italians, Poles, etc. worked in the shops and factories owned by English, Dutch, or German originated people.  These workers in turn used their paychecks to support others of their respective backgrounds via tailors, butchers, small markets, repair shops, etc.  It was not a matter of dislike that the Irish did not go to the Italian tailor but that there was an Irish tailor who could really use the business of his fellow Irishmen.  Sure, some people disliked outsiders to varying degrees but for most it was about supporting a community with a common background.  Of course this started to fade away after WWII as smaller manufacturing gave way to the corporations and retailing meant national suppliers such as A & P for groceries for example.  

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

7 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  A little before my time but I don't recall my elders saying that groups organized by ethnicity were strongly insulated.  In most towns in WNY there were communities within communities.  The Irish, Italians, Poles, etc. worked in the shops and factories owned by English, Dutch, or German originated people.  These workers in turn used their paychecks to support others of their respective backgrounds via tailors, butchers, small markets, repair shops, etc.  It was not a matter of dislike that the Irish did not go to the Italian tailor but that there was an Irish tailor who could really use the business of his fellow Irishmen.  Sure, some people disliked outsiders to varying degrees but for most it was about supporting a community with a common background.  Of course this started to fade away after WWII as smaller manufacturing gave way to the corporations and retailing meant national suppliers such as A & P for groceries for example.  

I think you think we're in disagreement, but your words strung together support what I wrote.  

 

 

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I think you think we're in disagreement, but your words strung together support what I wrote.  

 

 

  No, I think that we are in general agreement but I think that your statement about not crossing lines is more applicable to the major cities versus WNY.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, GG said:

What could go wrong?

 

At Least 19 Injured In Over A Dozen Shootings Across NYC In 24 Hours

 

...well skee ball was closed for social distancing but the shooting gallery was NOT......pulling the trigger from 6'1" IS in compliance...........

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  No, I think that we are in general agreement but I think that your statement about not crossing lines is more applicable to the major cities versus WNY.  

We can agree to disagree, and honestly I was speaking more to metropolitan areas in general than WNY.  My dad told stories of being mocked as a catlicker by non-catlickers, my father-in-law spoke of attitudes toward Italians where he grew up (every successful Italian man at some point gets the "you with the mob" comment), and so on.  Black Irish, Lace Irish, Shanty Irish, *****, *****, pollock etc all came from somewhere, and have been around a long long time.  Each group is guilty, each group has been victimized.  With luck, we keep moving forward.