[Vague Title] The King..Is out there..Sammy

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Just understand who Scott is. 

 

This article just shows how bat **** crazy Watkins is, how he got wasted every night, disappeared from everyone including teammates and was praying to get out of Buffalo.  But yet Scott will still defend his Watkins comments.

 

That's who Scott is.  He makes up his mind and nothing will change it.  He is a the biggest crier this board has ever seen.

 

When you use the term "undeniable talent" you're referencing elite talent.  I never said Sanders wasn't good, he's a good #2 WR.

That’s who Scott is.  No doubt

[BillsBlue]

On 5/12/2020 at 9:31 AM, plenzmd1 said:

Sammy Watkins is out there..

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889029-what-sammy-watkins-believes

 

As always, great interview and article by Ty Dunne.Interesting insight into his time with the Bills etc...

What an interesting article, fascinating honestly. I'm an empath so I know what he's talking about and I've long felt that covid19 and the unrest in the world is the next coming of a world war. Not that war in any capacity anywhere has really truly stopped, especially the middle east for instance. I just heard a lot of

scary stuff about covid and whats really happening now from an army national gaurd medical officer with a high clearance and to be blunt they've been testing soldiers that are home with covid and they can't get it to exit their bodies PERIOD. Let that sink in, he says that it already is on it's third mutation and not only that but even if you had/have covid and have had zero symptoms your life will be shortened 10-20 years because its like getting hepatitis c it stays no matter what and it ruins your pulmonary system. Now think about what someone who struggled and had/has symptoms has in store for their life expectancy =( This is scary as all get out. Maybe Sammy the millionaire who undoubtedly has more connections than us knows a lot more than he's letting on.  He dropped some large bombs

[teef]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

I got news for you, a lot of NFL players are bat ***** crazy. Go watch the documentary on Lawrence Taylor. 
 

The guy also claimed he loved Buffalo and loves being there a week before he was traded. As I said, he’s been inconsistent buts he’s also been a big help to the teams he’s been on since the trade.... you could argue the Chiefs don’t win the super bowl without Watkins. 

I’m just happy you stopped using Gase and mcd’s records as a way of comparing their ability to coach.  That’s ***** was stupid. 

[mjt328]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Huh? The guy was just on the Super Bowl winning team.

 

Watkins is a very small puzzle piece on the Chiefs team.  He just took a massive pay-cut this offseason to return.

For them, he's not a huge distraction.  Because they aren't counting on him to be more than the 3rd-4th option in the passing game.

 

The Bills made a HUGE investment to obtain Watkins - not only in using a Top 5 pick on him, but actually trading up to do it.

They were counting on him to be a leader, and a key piece that would vault our offense and team into the playoffs.

 

Every organization will take a chance on problem players.  It's the dysfunctional ones that use high draft picks and big free agent contracts on risky characters.  

 

[Rico]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

That's who Scott is.  He makes up his mind and nothing will change it.  He is a the biggest crier this board has ever seen.

 

I miss ICE.  

[Dragoon]

20 hours ago, Buftex said:

To be fair to Whaley, it doesn't seem like he was ever completely in charge of the things a GM should be in charge of.  Not to say he didn't make any mistakes, but not being able to choose his own coach was a big obstacle in his job.  I know most hate Marrone (with good reason), but when you think about it, they were reasonably on the right track to building a team pretty similar to what we have now... a really good defense, and a middle of the road offense.  They really did seem on the verge of turning the corner under Marrone... the hiring of Rex Ryan, by the Pegulas and Brandon, was a huge mistake, and pretty much blew up Whaley's progress.

Great post. I agree. There were things to like about the team then. Whaley is a good talent evaluator. 
 

ya know what’s nice though — we’re talking about problems of the past and not the current and for Bills fans like us, that’s refreshing. 

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, Dragoon said:

Great post. I agree. There were things to like about the team then. Whaley is a good talent evaluator. 
 

ya know what’s nice though — we’re talking about problems of the past and not the current and for Bills fans like us, that’s refreshing. 

Yes it is time to move on as Bills fans. It’s completely obvious why he was traded.  Hope his life is turned around for his sake. Oh and we were very fortunate to get a 2nd rd pick and a player in return. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[Rico]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

I got news for you, a lot of NFL players are bat ***** crazy. Go watch the documentary on Lawrence Taylor. 
 

The guy also claimed he loved Buffalo and loves being there a week before he was traded. As I said, he’s been inconsistent buts he’s also been a big help to the teams he’s been on since the trade.... you could argue the Chiefs don’t win the super bowl without Watkins. 

No doubt that Sammy earned a ring and that can never, ever be taken away from him. That is an indisputable fact.

 

Two other indisputable facts after this article came out:

1. McBeane absolutely made a smart move in getting this space cadet out of town.

2. Those still crying that Sammy is gone are even bigger nitwits than they were before.

[dollars 2 donuts]

Knowing what we know now, and what Whaley and company should have known then, I don’t know how you look to the left and see Khalil Mack on your board, then look right and see Sammy Watkins and then say, “Yeah...oh hell yeah, I’ll trade those two number 1s for th guy on the right!”

 

I was initially ok with the Sammy pick.  However, I’ve stated here before that when they made the trade I thought for sure it was to get Mack.

Edited May 13, 2020 by dollars 2 donuts

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, Rico said:

I miss ICE.  

I miss Robin Williams.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

I got news for you, a lot of NFL players are bat ***** crazy. Go watch the documentary on Lawrence Taylor. 
 

The guy also claimed he loved Buffalo and loves being there a week before he was traded. As I said, he’s been inconsistent buts he’s also been a big help to the teams he’s been on since the trade.... you could argue the Chiefs don’t win the super bowl without Watkins. 

 

Way to reach Scott.  Since the greatest defensive player of all time was a little crazy, lets use him to help your argument lol.  

If Watkins ever starts getting considered as one of the greatest of all time...then you have an argument.

 

Great, so Watkins had a good postseason.  So I guess you can make the argument that the Patriots don't win the Super Bowl in 2016 without Hogan?  

 

Straight up Scott, yes or no answer.  I don't know if you know what a yes or no answer means so I'll explain it.  You can only answer this question with either yes or no.  You can't dance around the question.

After reading this article and seeing how out there Sammy is, wasn't committing himself to football by getting "wasted wasted" every night and his injuries were a result of his own behavior (he admits this).....was it the wrong move to trade him?  YES OR NO.

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Way to reach Scott.  Since the greatest defensive player of all time was a little crazy, lets use him to help your argument lol.  

If Watkins ever starts getting considered as one of the greatest of all time...then you have an argument.

 

Great, so Watkins had a good postseason.  So I guess you can make the argument that the Patriots don't win the Super Bowl in 2016 without Hogan?  

 

Straight up Scott, yes or no answer.  I don't know if you know what a yes or no answer means so I'll explain it.  You can only answer this question with either yes or no.  You can't dance around the question.

After reading this article and seeing how out there Sammy is, wasn't committing himself to football by getting "wasted wasted" every night and his injuries were a result of his own behavior (he admits this).....was it the wrong move to trade him?  YES OR NO.

 

Why am I thinking this will NOT be a YES or NO answer? 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Why am I thinking this will NOT be a YES or NO answer? 

He might surprise us.

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

A little crazy? That guys ***** nuts. Dude was off his rocker 24/7. A lot of NFL players(and really good players mind you) are complete delinquents off the field. Who knew? Teams put up with it because they perform on the field 

 

If your just checking the box score, yea Patriots don’t win a super bowl without Hogan.... Sammy stepped up big all post season and made Sherman a fool to set up the go ahead TD for the Chiefs. 
 

To answer your question, for the new regime and for McDermotts style I’d say no it wasn’t the wrong move to trade him, but I don’t think it’s that simple.

 

They essentially swapped Sammy for Kelvin Benjamin.(Of course, they preferred the ex Carolina Panther?) Benjamin was a ***** show where it matters, on the football field and is now out of the league in case you didn’t know that either. 

Except they traded a 3rd for KB, not the second they got for Sammy. 

 

And if you think the bolded, what is all the ***** hand wringing about?

[LSHMEAB]

Just wanted to chime in and say that I'm liking Brandon Beane more and more with each passing season.

 

As much as they preach and genuinely believe in character, they are smart enough to recognize that talent ultimately gets you over the hump.

 

They're leaving no stone unturned. 

[Royale with Cheese]

25 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

A little crazy? That guys ***** nuts. Dude was off his rocker 24/7. A lot of NFL players(and really good players mind you) are complete delinquents off the field. Who knew? Teams put up with it because they perform on the field 

 

If your just checking the box score, yea Patriots don’t win a super bowl without Hogan.... Sammy stepped up big all post season and made Sherman a fool to set up the go ahead TD for the Chiefs. 
 

To answer your question, for the new regime and for McDermotts style I’d say no it wasn’t the wrong move to trade him, but I don’t think it’s that simple.

 

They essentially swapped Sammy for Kelvin Benjamin.(Of course, they preferred the ex Carolina Panther?) Benjamin was a ***** show where it matters, on the football field and is now out of the league in case you didn’t know that either. 

Remember when I said Im not sure if you know what a yes or no answer is?  

 

 

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I responded to the thread by saying you’d think Sammy was a complete bust and out of the league by now with all the hate he’s getting in here.

I’m not sure why you understand Sammy is hated.

 

I could break it down for you. We invested 2 first rounds picks in an offensive player who had one good year, battled injuries, screwed up his own rehab, saw dark energy from our HC and acted like an insane person, and who had to be shipped off for a much lower value due to all of the above. Then this guy puts up okayish numbers on two teams since then, and then has a good postseason and ultimately wins a Super Bowl.

 

He’d get less hate if he was a complete bust. Imagine if we cut Aaron Maybin, he put up 8 sacks with the Jets and then won a Super Bowl.

[Royale with Cheese]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I responded to the thread by saying you’d think Sammy was a complete bust and out of the league by now with all the hate he’s getting in here.

Only you would defend an ex- Bill who gave limited effort while here.  The guy didn’t dress up for us on many Sundays because in his own words....his own behavior.  

Edited May 14, 2020 by Royale with Cheese

[Augie]

58 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

He might surprise us.

 

33 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

A little crazy? That guys ***** nuts. Dude was off his rocker 24/7. A lot of NFL players(and really good players mind you) are complete delinquents off the field. Who knew? Teams put up with it because they perform on the field 

 

If your just checking the box score, yea Patriots don’t win a super bowl without Hogan.... Sammy stepped up big all post season and made Sherman a fool to set up the go ahead TD for the Chiefs. 
 

To answer your question, for the new regime and for McDermotts style I’d say no it wasn’t the wrong move to trade him, but I don’t think it’s that simple.

 

They essentially swapped Sammy for Kelvin Benjamin.(Of course, they preferred the ex Carolina Panther?) Benjamin was a ***** show where it matters, on the football field and is now out of the league in case you didn’t know that either. 

 

Nope, I guess not! 

[Stank_Nasty]

16 pages for a wr that has averaged 700 yds per season throughout his career...... because playoffs, I guess. 
 

geez. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, Augie said:

 

 

Nope, I guess not! 

Baby steps I guess.

 

Scott is easy to read as a Dr. Seuss book.  He had to give an extra part to his answer to try to save face.  He constantly ripped McBeane for the trade and then this story comes out....now his answer has a “but”.

[Mango]

15 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I responded to the thread by saying you’d think Sammy was a complete bust and out of the league by now with all the hate he’s getting in here.

I’ll add on here. I was understanding of the trade.  Not terrible, not great. I have a mild issue with it. Our WR Corp was bad. I’m not sure we had the luxury to trade Sammy at the time.

 

 I feel bad for Watkins. I wasn’t aware of his history. There’s a lot of baggage. His lizard king, demon inhabiting, world is flat views aren’t why he spiraled in Buffalo. It just makes him a super weird dude.His spiral is because he has a number of life changing experiences that seem like they were never dealt with until he was on his own. Not terribly uncommon. I feel for the kid. I hope he feels whole again. 

 

Our front office does preach process,  “come to Buffalo and be the best version of yourself”, and family, but they've seemed to turn their back on players with some serious baggage in pretty short order. Which is fine to a certain extent. It’s professional sports and my boss isn’t cutting me slack for my baggage. But my boss isn’t taking the opportunity to tell the world that he can help me do anything other than pay my bills. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

He had two good years actually. One injury consumed year where he suffered a Jones fracture.... he’s a ***** whack job.... this doesn’t make him much different than A LOT of NFL players.

 

So what? We didn’t spend two first rounders on A LOT of NFL players. We did on Sammy. 

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

16 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He had two good years actually. One injury consumed year where he suffered a Jones fracture.... he’s a ***** whack job.... this doesn’t make him much different than A LOT of NFL players.

 

I don’t think anyone can reasonably argue his production has lived up to where he was drafted. You don’t give up a bounty to move up and draft a guy that gives you what he has. He’s a 3/4 WR with true #1 talent. The article sheds some light on why his talent and actual production have never really matched up. 

[Royale with Cheese]

41 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I’m guessing Sammy wasn’t a nut job or drinking at all when he put up the best numbers of his career in 2014 and 2015? 
 

His own words are a ***** disaster. He’s got issues. 

And? He performed when he was on the field.... Then enter McDermott, and he didn’t want to put up with his ***** up mentality. So he shipped him off and many Bills fans have hated him since. 

I would stop guessing if I were you.

You’re acting like his 2014/2015 numbers were legendary.  They were decent numbers but nothing to stroke your argument with.

 

Watkins goes public and demands 10 targets a game and the man was getting “wasted wasted” every night...thats the guy you’re defending.  

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Royale with Cheese

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

And? He performed when he was on the field.... Then enter McDermott, and he didn’t want to put up with his ***** up mentality. So he shipped him off and many Bills fans have hated him since. 

Sammy wasn’t on the field because he was tearing off his cast and acting like a psycho. And Sammy was clearly begging to leave town. 

 

Sammy had the potential to be our #1 WR for over a decade and instead he prolonged his own injury problems, was an issue to our new coach, and acted like a complete psycho. Wow, can’t believe he’s disliked.

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Just defending the football player. Not the person off the field.

 

They were his best two years and I’m sure he was just as big a moron off the field during those two years as he was his last year in Buffalo and he was a gigantic asset to those teams on game day. 
 

Hes a valuable weapon offensively....which is why two of the more prominent offensive minds in the game invested in him despite his issues.

 

Actually you're defending your consistent "McBeane" are idiots for trading Sammy.  You said it a million times.  Remember you told us to "mark it down" that are playoff streak will get to 20 because McDermott is an idiot for trading Sammy?

Now this article came out....and you are trying to save face.

 

Well McVay did not resign him, got Brandin Cooks instead.  Watkins was 27 years old...

Now he has to take a restructure to stay with the team for a base salary of $7 million.  At that base salary, I think that puts him in the top 3 highest paid?  Is that correct Scott?  He could stay if he takes a pay cut.  The same thing you said about Star.  But Sammy is a valuable weapon offensively which is why two off the more prominent minds in the game invested in him despite his issues.

 

We all know you Scott, if John Brown next year puts up 52 receptions, 643 yards and 3 TD's (Sammy's numbers last year)....you'll be pounding the table that we need to upgrade the #2 and Brown is done.  But when Sammy does it.....he's a valuable weapon which is why two prominent offensive minds in the game invested in him despite his issues.  

Just because you're a character doesn't mean you have character.  

 

[Bob in STL]

He really did luck out getting picked up by Reid and KC.  At least he seems smart enough to know that.  He is a goid player, not a great one.  

 

I’m happy he is gone.  He was a poor choice, especially for the cost to move up.  Just proves Whaley’s lack of attention to important details.  

[Billl]

11 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Well McVay did not resign him, got Brandin Cooks instead.  Watkins was 27 years old.

He was 27 years old when McVay moved on from him more than 2 years ago?  He must be from a different realm after all given that today he’s only 26.  Normal human beings age in a linear fashion.  Not the Lizard King Reptilian Solar Being.

[Jauronimo]

12 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I would stop guessing if I were you.

You’re acting like his 2014/2015 numbers were legendary.  They were decent numbers but nothing to stroke your argument with.

 

Watkins goes public and demands 10 targets a game and the man was getting “wasted wasted” every night...thats the guy you’re defending.  

 

Putting up 2014 and 2015 numbers in a bottom ranked conservative passing attack is highly impressive.  He put up those 2015 numbers on 50% less targets than OBJ and 100% less targets Julio Jones.  Over the last 8 games of 2015 he was the best WR in football.  

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00.htm

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BeckOd00.htm

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneJu02.htm

 

Obviously, none of this mattered for ***** when he didn't take care of himself and ***** up his foot recovery but the guy had the ability.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

He was 27 years old when McVay moved on from him more than 2 years ago?  He must be from a different realm after all given that today he’s only 26.  Normal human beings age in a linear fashion.  Not the Lizard King Reptilian Solar Being.

 

I thought he was 27 but I was wrong.  It does make my point (towards Scott) a better one...he was even younger when he moved on from him.

[Don Otreply]

Sammy disciples, clinging to the church of the Mystic wonder man.

Living in the past, with tears  ? for what might have been, righteous to the bitter end...

 

Sammy koolaid anyone? 
 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Don Otreply

[somnus00]

On 5/12/2020 at 12:16 PM, NewEra said:

He’s a supremely talented athlete.  Not many WRs have his combination of speed, strength, explosiveness and strong hands. He’s going to be as good as sammy wants to be. Unfortunately for Sammy, his mental state seems to be getting in the way of him becoming great. In my opinion of course.  
 

there’s no denying that he has elite talent

 

 

I never mentioned his physical gifts. Clearly you're right. He has those in spades. I was referencing his limited experience as a pro-style wide receiver. Sure, I was being hyperbolic in saying that 80% of his catches were WR screens. But there were big concerns about Sammy's ability to run routes. It wasn't something that he was asked to do in Clemson.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2014/06/02/sammy-watkins-buffalo-bills

 

This article goes over his route running concerns. Turns out it was only 44% of his catches were screens.

 

At the time, it was a huge risk giving up a first to move up to take a receiver in the top 5. Even more of a risk to do it for a guy who rarely played WR (despite his obvious gifts that you mentioned). That's what I meant in my original statement.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Attention K-Mart shoppers, we have a Whaley special on aisle 8.

 

Look for the blue light.

 

[Jauronimo]

57 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

 

I never mentioned his physical gifts. Clearly you're right. He has those in spades. I was referencing his limited experience as a pro-style wide receiver. Sure, I was being hyperbolic in saying that 80% of his catches were WR screens. But there were big concerns about Sammy's ability to run routes. It wasn't something that he was asked to do in Clemson.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2014/06/02/sammy-watkins-buffalo-bills

 

This article goes over his route running concerns. Turns out it was only 44% of his catches were screens.

 

At the time, it was a huge risk giving up a first to move up to take a receiver in the top 5. Even more of a risk to do it for a guy who rarely played WR (despite his obvious gifts that you mentioned). That's what I meant in my original statement.

In college, teams got so concerned with Sammy burning them deep that CBs were playing him 10 yards off the LOS.  He called them "free yards".  

 

Then our genius offensive coordinators never attempted a WR screen, trips formation, or anything else to get the ball in his hands and let him run at the pro level.  Mind boggling.  

[TheCockSportif]

19 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

And? He performed when he was on the field.... Then enter McDermott, and he didn’t want to put up with his ***** up mentality. So he shipped him off and many Bills fans have hated him since. 

 

If memory serves, and maybe I'm getting old, but many people hated Watkins immediately upon having been drafted.  Same with Manuel.  Actually, same with Dareus now that I think about it.  I have never exactly gotten the player hate aspect, but I do get the frustration around a team who for decades kept trying to punch its own dick off before any actual games were played.

[Julio Hopkins]

50 minutes ago, Groin said:

 

If memory serves, and maybe I'm getting old, but many people hated Watkins immediately upon having been drafted.  Same with Manuel.  Actually, same with Dareus now that I think about it.  I have never exactly gotten the player hate aspect, but I do get the frustration around a team who for decades kept trying to punch its own dick off before any actual games were played.

 

Plenty of fans hated Gilmore immediately when he was drafted because he wasn't smiling.  

[CommonCents]

11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

They hated Peters and Lynch too.... because they were traded away and fans were fed the BS they didn’t want to be here. 

Dear Scott,

 

Let it go.

 

Sincerly Elsa 

[TheCockSportif]

14 hours ago, Julio Hopkins said:

 

Plenty of fans hated Gilmore immediately when he was drafted because he wasn't smiling.  

 

Yeah, I remember this.  No smile == doesn't want to be here == immediate hate.